Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

[Human Waiter]

doublepost since it's not about the OGL:
anyone got any experiences with pelgrane press? bag of holding is running a megabundle for 13 till tomorrow and I'm pondering to pick it up.

I was liked the Dying Earth system they put out, I felt it really captured the spirit of the books and laid out how to run an appropriate adventure with it.

 

[ZMOT]

Roll20 are renegging pieces of shit and I hope they die (in Ebberon). And yes, thye have been deep-throating WOTC every since inception.

I know, but seems a lot of people missed that a VTT (even a shit one like roll20), is now in bed with the biggest digital storefront for rpg pdf's - it's not just DTRPG alone anymore, and it means different interests than just a storefront for pdfs.

Paizo won't let you use their Golarion IP at all, so no, you won't go publish for Paizo. I don't know why you consider DMs Guild, which lets you use the Forgotten Realms, non-SRD content, official D&D logos, and a packet of professional artwork, to be a bad deal. Who else even offers anything remotely like that? I've never seen anybody be that easy with their IP. As gay and pozzed as WotC has gotten, DMs Guild is far more than anybody else gives you.

https://paizo.com/community/communityuse has been a thing since 2009.
https://support.pathfinderinfinite.com/hc/en-us/articles/4407200424077-Content-Guidelines - their own version of dmsguild (guess who runs it).

not to mention paizo has all their rules available for free online, officially; you don't even need a shitty subscription for it.

I don't have a problem with the access wotc grants you, and it's understandable that wotc wants to make money if you make money. however it's pretty obvious paid mods, to the point you gotta pay for the community bug fix patch for skyrim (or fix it yourself) - but even this is debatable to some extend, even if "I put all this work in I demand to be compensated for it" is supreme faggotry in this context.

however, it's also obvious this means WOTC doesn't even have to give much of a shit because someone somewhere will fix it, and they still get paid. have you seen some of the official content, and I mean mechanically, not pozzed content? what's the point in playtesting anything when you can just shit it out faster, for cheaper, and then go and make more money? because if you want to run it you HAVE to fix it yourself, this is not a simple matter of "just homebrew it bro". the slippery slope is real.
tbh I don't know how their organized play even works with all the holes and vague wording left and right.

besides, the "publish for paizo" was meant regarding marketshare and popularity, not legality.

 

[The Ugly One]

I know, but seems a lot of people missed that a VTT (even a shit one like roll20), is now in bed with the biggest digital storefront for rpg pdf's - it's not just DTRPG alone anymore, and it means different interests than just a storefront for pdfs.


https://paizo.com/community/communityuse has been a thing since 2009.
https://support.pathfinderinfinite.com/hc/en-us/articles/4407200424077-Content-Guidelines - their own version of dmsguild (guess who runs it).

not to mention paizo has all their rules available for free online, officially; you don't even need a shitty subscription for it.

I don't have a problem with the access wotc grants you, and it's understandable that wotc wants to make money if you make money. however it's pretty obvious paid mods, to the point you gotta pay for the community bug fix patch for skyrim (or fix it yourself) - but even this is debatable to some extend, even if "I put all this work in I demand to be compensated for it" is supreme faggotry in this context.

however, it's also obvious this means WOTC doesn't even have to give much of a shit because someone somewhere will fix it, and they still get paid. have you seen some of the official content, and I mean mechanically, not pozzed content? what's the point in playtesting anything when you can just shit it out faster, for cheaper, and then go and make more money? because if you want to run it you HAVE to fix it yourself, this is not a simple matter of "just homebrew it bro". the slippery slope is real.
tbh I don't know how their organized play even works with all the holes and vague wording left and right.

besides, the "publish for paizo" was meant regarding marketshare and popularity, not legality.

I don't know why you keep sperging out about mods and patches. WotC issues its own rules errata, which eventually make it into print, and the top content sold on DMs guild is adventures, not "mods." You also can't publish text from their books through it, so no, no "patches" to PotA or other adventures on the site. Nor can you "patch" Tasha's or other rules supplements.

5e also had the most thorough playtesting of any D&D edition. Your entire rant about DMs Guild being a way to monetize fan patches so they could avoid play testing is just autistic nonsense. WotC's main method of playtesting since release has been through unofficial Unearthed Arcana supplements and user surveys. This feedback eventually makes it into errata, and in some cases, later supplements. The biggest official patch, if you want to call it that, is the revised ranger in Tasha's. But again, this had nothing to do with DMs Guild or monetizing mods.

I didn't know Paizo copied DMs guild, but now that I do, I noticed their royalty is also 50%.

 

[Jet Fuel Johnny]

"I. You will not do anything that could harm Our reputation, that of Dungeons & Dragons, or the reputation of the Licensed Content or Unlicensed Content.

"Oh, you got drunk at a con and punched out a tranny, pissed on a birthday cake, and threw a pedophile off the roof? Well, you harmed D&D's reputation, so we're yanking your license. TAKE THAT!"

Fuck this gay shit.

5e also had the most thorough playtesting of any D&D edition.

snickers

 

[robobobo]

Yeah, consider the implications. Any company using OGL, even a biggun like Paizo, would be subject to Keffals doing a whine campaign to WotC. You have a business with hundreds of people making RPGs? Well better hope you do exactly what every tranny on the planet wants, because at the first breath of you being out of line, they're going to mass tweet to WotC and get your license yanked within half a day. Your sole product and revenue stream hinges on a bunch of terminally online emotionally unstable faggots never choosing to raise their hand against you, which they could do at literally any moment. Sleep tight!

 

[ZMOT]

I don't know why you keep sperging out about mods and patches. WotC issues its own rules errata, which eventually make it into print, and the top content sold on DMs guild is adventures, not "mods." You also can't publish text from their books through it, so no, no "patches" to PotA or other adventures on the site. Nor can you "patch" Tasha's or other rules supplements.

what fucking rules? the only reason to even use dmsguild is being able to reference official material as you already pointed out yourself.
hint: fixing blatant obvious "just make it up yourself, lul" and other issues in official material is technically a patch too, since you're trying way too hard to find some gotcha via semantics, and not what the comparison was about.
if you have the time and money to just buy shit or fix it yourself after spending 50 bucks on a book of shoddy quality, more power to ya. some people expect more than the pretty pictures it provides.

5e also had the most thorough playtesting of any D&D edition. Your entire rant about DMs Guild being a way to monetize fan patches so they could avoid play testing is just autistic nonsense. WotC's main method of playtesting since release has been through unofficial Unearthed Arcana supplements and user surveys. This feedback eventually makes it into errata, and in some cases, later supplements. The biggest official patch, if you want to call it that, is the revised ranger in Tasha's. But again, this had nothing to do with DMs Guild or monetizing mods.

coming from who, a player or DM? ever run DH/ROTFM/DIA at some point? or even anything adventurers league?

again, I don't give a fuck how WOTC wants to monetize their third-party content, but if you think it doesn't affect their own releases all I can say is: lol. even dnd-drones can understand that simple logic, why do you run some cringy defense for wotc of all people?

I didn't know Paizo copied DMs guild, but now that I do, I noticed their royalty is also 50%.

that's the default royalty on DTRPG afaik. however paizo's rules are free, their content works pretty much out of the box (the 2e stuff I've seen at least), and the community use policy let you monetize your stuff since 2009 (all it mandates is access needs to be completely free without paywalling, but patreon and youtube/twitch is fair game).

and while 5e.tools exists (for now) I don't see anything official or even a legal note. since it directly competes with dnd beyond and WOTC's new digital monetization focus, I won't expect for it survive in the end (and while paizo is slowly going with it's own dndbeyond via demiplane, it's still a third party and feels more like an option for people who really want something like beyond for pathfinder for some reason).

 

[I'mma real anime gurl]

So for the OGL license shit I hope it's inundated with troll projects and fucking offensive shit. Which is why I can't wait for the adventure of Drow Breaking.

 

[Ghostse]

I'm probably going to keep up on this enough to let someone else pre-digest it for me. The problem with most of these pseudo-GPL things that have proliferated in the last few years is nobody actually knows how any dispute over them goes in court.

Its shit.

I already raged about this elsewheres so I'll just paraphase and C&P
Just rate this with a hat and save yourself reading about me raging about the worst parts of this.
Also assumes this is legit (if its not, its an elaborate troll), and of course its a draft.

There are two versions: the non-commercial (replacing the fan content policy) and the commercial (replacing the current OGL) They are nearly identical.

First, I'll cover the only thing that isn't completely retarded:

What if I don’t like these terms and don’t agree to the OGL: Commercial? That’s fine – it just means that you cannot earn income from any SRD-based D&D content you create on or after January 13, 2023,

Ok, makes sense: existing content is grandfathered in. They are sadly not trying to go Maximum Retard.

If I do sign, the voiding the OGL isn't quite as bad as was suggested; They are clarifying that only SRD 5.1 is covered by this new shittier NGL.

The real fun is they say only SRD 5.1 is covered by the new, gay NGL. So when I have to report revenues, I only have to report revenues on 5.1e content. OSR is fully exempt unless they want to use 5.1 things (and why would you).

This is all legal and within their rights; no one says they have to make D&Done and release it under the OGL. I don't think anyone with any sense will sign the NGL, but retards are everywhere.

Anyway onto the worst parts of what they fuck up.
I couldn't even make it through the preamble without wanting to firebomb WOTC offices and murder everyone who as ever worked there (in Eberron)

A lot has changed over the last half century, including the rise of the internet, apps, Web 3,

fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you kill yourself (in Eberron) reeeeeeeeeeeeee
Stop doing gay web numbering.
SINCE NORMIES STARTED USING THE INTERNET and move on.

Additionally, over time the old OGL incorporated some confusing and even contradictory provisions. It was also written in fairly dense legal language.

Fuck you fuck you fuck Youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
The OGL is 900 fucking words, for a legally binding document that is a goddamn product jingle in length. Nothing is incomprehensible, in fact the issue is it TOO comprehensible and uses language too that is too straight forward: Wizards have no fucking space to wriggle out of any jams and its not written to solely Wizards' benefit. This NGL shit is "we do what we want, suck our female cocks" with plenty of ambiguity to allow their corporate lawyers to work.

The part you've all been waiting for: the content guidelines. This is the same for commercial and non-commercial.

We know this may come off strong, but this is important: If You attempt to use the OGL as a basis to release blatantly
racist, sexist, homophobic, trans-phobic, bigoted or otherwise discriminatory content, or do anything We think triggers
these provisions, Your content is no longer licensed. To be clear, We want to, and will always, support creators who are
using the OGL to help them explore sensitive subjects in a positive manner, but We will not tolerate materials We
consider to be in any way counter to the spirit of D&D. Additionally, You waive any right to sue over Our decision on
these issues. We’re aware that, if We somehow stretch Our decision of what is or is not objectionable under these
clauses too far, We will receive community pushback and bad PR, and We’re more than open to being convinced that
We made a wrong decision. But nobody gets to use the threat of a lawsuit as part of an attempt to convince Us.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUCK YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOU
Fuck you nigger, fuck you faggot, fuck you shemale you'll never be a real woman, fuck you cunt, get raped, kill youself (in Eberron).

"We will be totally held to this because of bad PR!"
Like the bad PR you're getting flamed with because of this dog shit agreement but pressing on with regardless?

This is word-for-word in the commercial and non-commercial sections.
Fuck you you kike niggers if I'm going to run my business in a way you can just shutdown because someone has hurt feelings and trust you that you wouldn't use that capriciously because "PR".
Fuck you fuck you kill youself and your entended family because your bloodline is cursed and I don't want your stupidity and greed infecting other generations. (in eberron)


From the non-commercial section (not in the commercial)

A. You agree that nothing prohibits Us from developing, distributing, selling, or promoting something that is
substantially similar to a Licensed Work.
B. You own the new and original content You create. You agree to give Us a nonexclusive, perpetual, irrevocable,
worldwide, sub-licensable, royalty-free license to use that content for any purpose.
C. For clarity, nothing contained in this Section impacts Your agreement that Our Licensed Content, Unlicensed Content,
and anything else You are not otherwise expressly authorized to use, under the terms of this agreement or any other
agreement, remains Our sole property

Eat an entire 7-course golden corral buffet meal comprised of nothing but unseasoned dicks.
This is "You-made-this-I-Made-this.txt".

I understand they want to prevent "i mailed a letter to star trek and they totally based this episode off my idea" shit, but this is not the way you do it. This lets them use your fan art in official releases, and if you say "No, I don't want to allow my art to be used for free with no credit by a bunch of child-raping tranny enablers" they tell you to pound sand, they own it.
They can even sell your fan creations to someone else for them to use.

This license is absolute shit. Only complete and total cucks will sign.
Forget unlearning the lessons from 4e, WOTC is now blazing new trails into the forests of complete and utter stupidity.
The fact they are bitching about the community making money while they only make "lots" is the most killing the golden goose behavior imaginable. Their limp-wristed cucking to the woke mob WHO WON'T BUY YOUR PRODUCTS ANYWAY YOU FUCKING MONGS and enshrining their legal rights to immediately and totally cuck to outrage unlearns lessons all the way a back to the 80s and the Satanic Panic.

Again, "We're pushing this document through despite community input telling us 'no this sucks', but you can count on our concern for our reputation to do the right thing"

God I hope this what kills the IP.

 

[Wormy]

>>We will not tolerate materials We consider to be in any way counter to the spirit of D&D.

These limpdicks wouldn't know the spirit of D&D if the ghost of Gygax and Kaye manifested behind them, shoved a giant D4 up their stinkditches and hollared "ROLL FOR DEATH SAVES!"

>>God I hope this what kills the IP.

“I come to bury Dungeons and Dragons, not to praise it.​

The evil that WOTC does lives after them;​

The good is oft interred with their bones”​

 

[I'mma real anime gurl]

Everyone who signed it should do a fucking troll project under the OGL that way if they use it then not only is it canon but it'll fuck with their IP.

 

[Ghostse]

5e also had the most thorough playtesting of any D&D edition.

It had the most playtesting, but not the most thorough because shit was ridiculously broken.

I happily buy from DTRPG (don't buy anything 5e so haven't used the DMs guild storefront specifically), doesn't mean I'm blind to three facts: First, that the leadership is lefty as fuck - they just haven't tried to enforce that leftism. Second, they have WOTC's hand all the way up their ass, and they are going to do whatever WOTC wants them to do regarding WOTC's product.
And third, combining these first two, that they have a disturbingly high percentage of the market.

and while 5e.tools exists (for now) I don't see anything official or even a legal note. since it directly competes with dnd beyond and WOTC's new digital monetization focus

I hadn't thought of that. I thought that trying to restrict VTT campaign packs, or software helper tools was completely stupid. Trying to keep out video games I thought was stupid. But now it makes sense. Use Insider or get raped.

 

[PaladinBoo]

So for the OGL license shit I hope it's inundated with troll projects and fucking offensive shit. Which is why I can't wait for the adventure of Drow Breaking.

Oh god, I hope people do to Wizard's what jaded gamers did to Warcraft 3: ReFucked. If if don't know after Blizzard told fans that anything fans make is property that belongs to Blizzard and that they will be able to freely use fan content without any permission from the mod authors, modders began to make anti-Semitic and racist mods for ReFucked and told Blizzard that the racist and anti-Semitic content belongs to Blizzard as per their OGL.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

The document is peak "I'm pro nazi Germany if they had accepted trans rights".

I do wish that some lawyer will sell a module where you commit genocide against orcs only to take WOTC to court after they flag it and force them to argue why orcs are obviously niggers.

 

[Ghostse]

Oh god, I hope people do to Wizard's what jaded gamers did to Warcraft 3: ReFucked. If if don't know after Blizzard told fans that anything fans make is property that belongs to Blizzard and that they will be able to freely use fan content without any permission from the mod authors, modders began to make anti-Semitic and racist mods for ReFucked and told Blizzard that the racist and anti-Semitic content belongs to Blizzard as per their OGL.

The way the document is written, there isn't any opportunity for that happen.

Wizards doesn't say they own it, they say they get a license to, at their option, use your content they make no claim on ownership of your work, only their IP that is included in your work and their ability to use it as if they owned it (and you can't remove this right to your work). If you make some Hobgoblincaust module, Wizards issues a cease-and-desist, its done. Hilariously after the race war happens, they could then take your work and use it - your can't revoke their right.

To troll them on this, you'd need to do a deep-cover troll where you have hidden Hitler memes in a work, get WOTC to pick it up and use your work, and then reveal the sick truth.

The only real way to own Wizards here is to completely abandon the SRD 5.1, and ideally any Wizards content, and begin producing for other systems that aren't rat-fucked. This is unlikely, as consoomers gotta consoom.

 

[autosarcophagy]

basicfantasy is going to excise the OGL basicfantasy forums

 

[Ghostse]

basicfantasy is going to excise the OGL basicfantasy forums

This one company found this "weird" trick to quickly burn down 50 years of accumilated community good will overnight.

 

[autosarcophagy]

This one company found this "weird" trick to quickly burn down 50 years of accumilated community good will overnight.

the only good thing is that they are so blatant about it that everybody can see and nobody can deny it.

 

[Ghostse]

basicfantasy is going to excise the OGL basicfantasy forums

Was reading the thread... look longer than I thought before the "We need to inject more feminism and trannies" crowd started trying to hijack the conversation.

 

[The Ugly One]

what fucking rules? the only reason to even use dmsguild is being able to reference official material as you already pointed out yourself.

You're the one who keeps saying DMs Guild is for fans to be able to mod out the flaws in the 5e rules so that WotC doesn't have to playtest, and for WotC to monetize those patches. I pointed out that "patches" aren't really what's for sale on DMs Guild, and now you're mad and shrieking about "semantics." So are you walking that back now? Or did you mean something completely different? I've bought a few modules off DMs Guild here and there, but I didn't really see them as "mods" or "patches" for anything. So what exactly are you talking about?

hint: fixing blatant obvious "just make it up yourself, lul" and other issues in official material is technically a patch too

Today I learned that running an RPG session is equivalent to patching software. Incidentally, I've been running playing OSR games for the last year. You'd really hate those. Constant patching! Traveller's like that, too. However, my "patches," i.e. every time I referee what happens at the table without resorting to explicit instructions from the publisher, don't get monetized by anyone, and didn't when I ran 5e, either. So I'm still not sure how this relates to you whining about DMs Guild.

coming from who, a player or DM? ever run DH/ROTFM/DIA at some point? or even anything adventurers league?

Coming from Mearls & team talking about the mistakes they made playtesting 4e & 3rd edition, and how they changed it for 5e and were more thorough. I have played Princes of the Apocalypse, which has a broken, inconsistent timeline. That'd be an obvious one to have fan patches for it on DMs Guild if that's what the service was for, but it doesn't.

again, I don't give a fuck how WOTC wants to monetize their third-party content, but if you think it doesn't affect their own releases all I can say is: lol. even dnd-drones can understand that simple logic, why do you run some cringy defense for wotc of all people?


that's the default royalty on DTRPG afaik. however paizo's rules are free, their content works pretty much out of the box (the 2e stuff I've seen at least), and the community use policy let you monetize your stuff since 2009 (all it mandates is access needs to be completely free without paywalling, but patreon and youtube/twitch is fair game).

and while 5e.tools exists (for now) I don't see anything official or even a legal note. since it directly competes with dnd beyond and WOTC's new digital monetization focus, I won't expect for it survive in the end (and while paizo is slowly going with it's own dndbeyond via demiplane, it's still a third party and feels more like an option for people who really want something like beyond for pathfinder for some reason).

You sound like one of those people who's really pissed off that they took out the diplomacy table from 3.5 or something and is holding a grudge. Or is the argument here that the reason WotC's hardcover adventures are bad is because they're figuring they'll just clean up the revenue loss with fan content on DMs Guild? Since 5e adventures are regularly top sellers on Amazon, I don't think that's the case, either. Honestly, I can't really tell what you're trying to claim because it's mixed in with so much butthurt.

I also like how a 50% royalty is "rape" when WotC does it, but "standard" when Paizo does it because they put all their monsters and class options in their SRD, not just the core ones.

 

[autosarcophagy]

Was reading the thread... look longer than I thought before the "We need to inject more feminism and trannies" crowd started trying to hijack the conversation.

basic fantasy is free so you can adapt it in any way you want. just that alone makes it better then anything from WotC