Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

[Rapier Ape]

Probably completely off-topic but...

Every time I tried to tabletop game, a problem I had was players who treated it like video game rules applied.

For example in a fight, I was the only person to think of something like trying to climb a tree so I could throw rocks or shoot without having to worry about counter-attacks.... and other players were like "Wait, you can DO that?" (the other players were just saying "attack" or "I cast this spell at that target" over and over).

Is this widespread or do I just keep running into idiots?

They're idiots who probably never even read through the players manual.
They just have a basic concept of their character and what it can do.
Taking cover and things have been right there in the books since Moldvay BX.

 

[robobobo]

I couldn't care less about people who get some kick out of watching fake roleplaying sessions. There's apparently sort of a scourge in open roleplaying groups where idiot newbies join expecting the same experience as scripted roleplay with paid actors, but I only game with people I know so that doesn't really impact me either. Same for the PbtA/FATE garbage: I won't touch that shit with a ten foot pole, so random faggots writing a cuckolding simulator for those systems doesn't change anything for me. And for all that shit like the sword lesbians and that indian Wakanda game made a splash with the media, I've never in my life heard of actual groups of people getting together to play them. Because the virtue-signaling idiots who jerk off on those games? Aren't gamers. They don't actually play anything. They just post on twitter and rpg.net about how problematic Gygax was and their new trans BIPOC game is the future.

 

[derpherp2]

They're idiots who probably never even read through the players manual.
They just have a basic concept of their character and what it can do.
Taking cover and things have been right there in the books since Moldvay BX.

Don't forget doing stupid shit with vancian magic, or trying to.
Like trying to do a trickshot with a cantrip, or trying to cast light inside someone's eye.
Cuz they're totally smart.

 

[AnOminous]

Don't forget doing stupid shit with vancian magic, or trying to.
Like trying to do a trickshot with a cantrip, or trying to cast light inside someone's eye.
Cuz they're totally smart.

I generally had a rule you couldn't use a lower level spell to simulate the effects of a higher level spell. So since there was cause blindness already, you couldn't use light to blind someone, otherwise you wouldn't even need that other spell.

 

[Kane Lives]

I couldn't care less about people who get some kick out of watching fake roleplaying sessions. There's apparently sort of a scourge in open roleplaying groups where idiot newbies join expecting the same experience as scripted roleplay with paid actors, but I only game with people I know so that doesn't really impact me either. Same for the PbtA/FATE garbage: I won't touch that shit with a ten foot pole, so random faggots writing a cuckolding simulator for those systems doesn't change anything for me. And for all that shit like the sword lesbians and that indian Wakanda game made a splash with the media, I've never in my life heard of actual groups of people getting together to play them. Because the virtue-signaling idiots who jerk off on those games? Aren't gamers. They don't actually play anything. They just post on twitter and rpg.net about how problematic Gygax was and their new trans BIPOC game is the future.

They do actually. I have the unfortunate opportunity to get to know a few via a secondary friend group. Don't discount the rainbow and tranny-flag waving crowd. Nothing pleases them more than being able to live out their fantasies.

That said, mysteriously, they also cannot keep a group going. Can't imagine why.

 

[Big Nasty]

they are no worse (and possibly less work) than a couple of the pretenders to throne before Critical Role ran away with it.

Oxventure?

 

[skykiii]

Don't forget doing stupid shit with vancian magic, or trying to.
Like trying to do a trickshot with a cantrip, or trying to cast light inside someone's eye.
Cuz they're totally smart.

What's dumb about either of those things?

 

[derpherp2]

What's dumb about either of those things?

Because Vancian Magic is quite literally designed not to do that?
If you want to be creative with your spell use, actually know what the spell does first before trying to go all "hey this spell is called Bigby's hand, can I give myself a handjob" or some shit.
If people have to take a prestige class, multiple feats, and other assorted material components to make a fireball start actually burning someone, realize the scope of what you're trying to do. Especially if theres a god of magic nerfing.

Like I get trying to start a campfire with produce flame and failing is retarded, but when the GM says no, maybe stop trying to go "oh can I set fire to this or this or this or this? No? Then why the hell is there fire? Wait it's an explosion, let us go into a five minute tirade about thermodynamics and why that is stupid." and then being surprised nobody wants to play with you AND being even more surprised when everyone is pissed that you're being pissy about playing again, cuz "I was being bullied" fuck you faggot. Especially if you didn't even bother reading the FUCKING Cantrip's words just the title.

 

[skykiii]

Because Vancian Magic is quite literally designed not to do that?
If you want to be creative with your spell use, actually know what the spell does first before trying to go all "hey this spell is called Bigby's hand, can I give myself a handjob" or some shit.
If people have to take a prestige class, multiple feats, and other assorted material components to make a fireball start actually burning someone, realize the scope of what you're trying to do. Especially if theres a god of magic nerfing.

Like I get trying to start a campfire with produce flame and failing is retarded, but when the GM says no, maybe stop trying to go "oh can I set fire to this or this or this or this? No? Then why the hell is there fire? Wait it's an explosion, let us go into a five minute tirade about thermodynamics and why that is stupid." and then being surprised nobody wants to play with you AND being even more surprised when everyone is pissed that you're being pissy about playing again, cuz "I was being bullied" fuck you faggot. Especially if you didn't even bother reading the FUCKING Cantrip's words just the title.

I really just don't know how D&D spells work/what their mechanics are, that's why I asked. This stuff interests me.

Don't assume I know this stuff, explain as if I'm a noob.

 

[derpherp2]

I really just don't know how D&D spells work/what their mechanics are, that's why I asked. This stuff interests me.

Don't assume I know this stuff, explain as if I'm a noob.

I'm not talking about YOU I'm talking about the people that does this shit.

 

[skykiii]

I'm not talking about YOU I'm talking about the people that does this shit.

All right.

Still... I have an autistic need to hear why blinding someone with the light spell wouldn't work. Please?

Like, how does it produce light? Is it like in some anime where there's a glowing ball that floats around, or is the area just illuminated around the party without explanation?

 

[Ghostse]

Critical Role to a real TTRPG is like a porn scene to real sex.

Lies. I can masturbate to porn.

Oxventure?

Probably. I don't remember. I know they had things like the PA guys doing live D&D sessions and the like. It was already happening, Critical Role was just in the right place at the right time with the right backing, its a symptom. People are all about the parasocial shit with streamers now. This is just that market, and being angry at them is like being angry at a cold instead of angry at the virus.

I don't watch CR, I think watching D&D sessions is autistic and should be grounds for immediate steriization. But I don't mind them. What I hate is their fans, their fans are always the worst people in a session.

Because Vancian Magic is quite literally designed not to do that?
If you want to be creative with your spell use, actually know what the spell does first before trying to go all "hey this spell is called Bigby's hand, can I give myself a handjob" or some shit.
If people have to take a prestige class, multiple feats, and other assorted material components to make a fireball start actually burning someone, realize the scope of what you're trying to do. Especially if theres a god of magic nerfing.

Like I get trying to start a campfire with produce flame and failing is retarded, but when the GM says no, maybe stop trying to go "oh can I set fire to this or this or this or this? No? Then why the hell is there fire? Wait it's an explosion, let us go into a five minute tirade about thermodynamics and why that is stupid." and then being surprised nobody wants to play with you AND being even more surprised when everyone is pissed that you're being pissy about playing again, cuz "I was being bullied" fuck you faggot. Especially if you didn't even bother reading the FUCKING Cantrip's words just the title.

For me, it depends on the system and how much I'm allowing myself to fuck back with the players.

4e & 5e, very clearly no extra effects on a spell. It does x points of fire damage, it doesn't set cooking oil on fire. There are very clear exceptions to this rule, like alchemist ingredients that ignite when cast upon, but fireball doesn't burn down your cabin - it is a sphere of arcane energy that damages targets. I will be very strict with rule adherance on magic (ie @AnOminous rule you can't use a lower spell to get the benefits of a higherlevel) because the enemies will behave the same way.

1e & 2e, I treat fireball as a spongey ball of fire. If you can figure out how to blind with Light spell, go for it (but don't be shocked when it doesn't work the way you planned all the time) I do this because the players need every ounce of creativity and cunning to not get murdered. And when their clever plan falls through and they get murdered - Oh well, roll a level 1.

3e, depents on how it was playing. If its high murder leathality, more like I'd later run 1e. If they are supposed to be name adventurers with a story and all that, I'd play it like 4/5.

 

[Oddjob OTP]

4e & 5e, very clearly no extra effects on a spell. It does x points of fire damage, it doesn't set cooking oil on fire. There are very clear exceptions to this rule, like alchemist ingredients that ignite when cast upon, but fireball doesn't burn down your cabin - it is a sphere of arcane energy that damages targets. I will be very strict with rule adherance on magic (ie @AnOminous rule you can't use a lower spell to get the benefits of a higherlevel) because the enemies will behave the same way.

Fireball very specifically does ignite objects that aren't being worn or carried in 5e. Most DMs ignore this and other spells that have effects that aren't mentioned specifically in the text like the light and heat of Create Bonfire because most of them don't have ignition rules memorized and don't want to have to track all of the fires you start. There's also the problem of balance in that 5e fireball and grease are already some of the better spells of their level and your DM applying simulationist logic to them makes them even more wildly better then most of the alternatives.

Also I'm pretty sure the light spell is about as bright as a 40 watt bulb. It might make you squint if it takes you by surprise in the dark but unless you have some gnomish contraption to make a laser out of it or something it's not at all worth making some one roll vs blinding.

 

[Capsaicin Addict]

I can recall at least one edition of D&D (Mentzer Redbox, maybe) where you could blind someone with a light spell.

But yeah. Typically magic spells in D&D are pretty tightly defined by their parameters, and it's difficult to step outside them if the spell doesn't allow it. This is why certain multi-function spells can lead to hilarious outcomes since they're more open-ended.

However, as I have warned players, if you can do something, don't be surprised if the other side learns how to do it too.

 

[AnOminous]

I can recall at least one edition of D&D (Mentzer Redbox, maybe) where you could blind someone with a light spell.

But yeah. Typically magic spells in D&D are pretty tightly defined by their parameters, and it's difficult to step outside them if the spell doesn't allow it. This is why certain multi-function spells can lead to hilarious outcomes since they're more open-ended.

However, as I have warned players, if you can do something, don't be surprised if the other side learns how to do it too.

If you got super realistic about this kind of thing it could really be a fun-killer. For instance, suppose any time you got hit with a fire spell all that lantern oil caught on fire and exploded like a little fire grenade, burning you horribly. All your potions boil and explode for more damage. You'd just die any time fire happened. (Incidentally this does happen in roguelikes like Nethack.)

 

[SadLonelyLoser]

I generally had a rule you couldn't use a lower level spell to simulate the effects of a higher level spell. So since there was cause blindness already, you couldn't use light to blind someone, otherwise you wouldn't even need that other spell.

I had an experience about this. A player prepared create water as a readied action to fill a caster's mouth with water when they go to cast a spell. The fill someone's mouth/lungs with water meme is an old one and doesn't even work RAW because a mouth is not considered to be a container. Anyways, He was salty when the spell didn't do what he expected, because if things worked the way he wanted, we wouldn't have counter spell.

This guy also couldn't create a character without using dndbeyond.

 

[Duiker]

I love seeing all the 5e DMs come out of the woodwork asking about other systems to run while saying they've never played other games. Anyone who enjoys this hobby and plays it for any amount of time will have atleast heard of and should have tried other systems. Ive even run some weird Japanese ttrpgs before. Its not hard to find DnD alternatives.

 

[That Guy Who Likes The Chili]

Probably completely off-topic but...

Every time I tried to tabletop game, a problem I had was players who treated it like video game rules applied.

For example in a fight, I was the only person to think of something like trying to climb a tree so I could throw rocks or shoot without having to worry about counter-attacks.... and other players were like "Wait, you can DO that?" (the other players were just saying "attack" or "I cast this spell at that target" over and over).

Is this widespread or do I just keep running into idiots?

In my experience sometimes this is a double edged sword.
Like yes, it's fun to have creative players that do fun things and interact with the environment and think outside of the box, but you all have to be on the same page about what you can and cannot do.
I've had players where essentially every single turn is never anything on their character sheet and it gets real old real fast. "OK, I want to try and grab this troll and suplex him through this table. Ok during this turn my character is going to grab random shit out of his bag and try to make a bomb! This turn I want to just grab this goblin by the head with both hands and crush his head!"
Then I as the DM have to spend an annoying amount of time every turn figuring out if what they want to do is possible/has dice rolls that fit the scenario/doesn't step on the toes of another classes ability, or hell half the time they get pissy with you when you straight up say no.
But yeah, I'd rather have people who think outside of the box any day of the week instead of people who spend every turn casting magic missle once then ending their turn.

 

[Ghostse]

Fireball very specifically does ignite objects that aren't being worn or carried in 5e.

The RAW is stupid. Being worn or carried shouldn't save an item. Either everything burns or nothing burns.
One of the many reasons I hate 5e.

In my 4e games I usually home brew up some alchemist shit, like oil flasks, that cause whatever they hit to start taking some level of ongoing fire damage when hit by something with fire spell.

I can recall at least one edition of D&D (Mentzer Redbox, maybe) where you could blind someone with a light spell.

But yeah. Typically magic spells in D&D are pretty tightly defined by their parameters, and it's difficult to step outside them if the spell doesn't allow it. This is why certain multi-function spells can lead to hilarious outcomes since they're more open-ended.

However, as I have warned players, if you can do something, don't be surprised if the other side learns how to do it too.

I believe it's given as an example in the OSE source books of creative applications of spells. And with magic users getting very few spells, and how important torches are for delving, I'm going to let magic users have significant leeway.

And sort of as you said, once they start getting clever, my gloves start coming off. Very rarely will I initiate the arms race, and I always ask "You sure you want to open that door?" before we resolve their clever plan.

In my experience sometimes this is a double edged sword.
Like yes, it's fun to have creative players that do fun things and interact with the environment and think outside of the box, but you all have to be on the same page about what you can and cannot do.
I've had players where essentially every single turn is never anything on their character sheet and it gets real old real fast. "OK, I want to try and grab this troll and suplex him through this table. Ok during this turn my character is going to grab random shit out of his bag and try to make a bomb! This turn I want to just grab this goblin by the head with both hands and crush his head!"
Then I as the DM have to spend an annoying amount of time every turn figuring out if what they want to do is possible/has dice rolls that fit the scenario/doesn't step on the toes of another classes ability, or hell half the time they get pissy with you when you straight up say no.

There's a fine line between no creativity and "this is nothing anyone would ever do or would never work, please just help the other players not die. This is fun for you, but irritating everyone else".

 

[skykiii]

In my experience sometimes this is a double edged sword.
Like yes, it's fun to have creative players that do fun things and interact with the environment and think outside of the box, but you all have to be on the same page about what you can and cannot do.
I've had players where essentially every single turn is never anything on their character sheet and it gets real old real fast. "OK, I want to try and grab this troll and suplex him through this table. Ok during this turn my character is going to grab random shit out of his bag and try to make a bomb! This turn I want to just grab this goblin by the head with both hands and crush his head!"
Then I as the DM have to spend an annoying amount of time every turn figuring out if what they want to do is possible/has dice rolls that fit the scenario/doesn't step on the toes of another classes ability, or hell half the time they get pissy with you when you straight up say no.
But yeah, I'd rather have people who think outside of the box any day of the week instead of people who spend every turn casting magic missle once then ending their turn.

"Grab troll and suplex him..." just make a strength/dex check.

"try to MacGyver a bomb..." rule that they need to do that BEFORE going in the dungeon because they don't have enough time now.

"Crush his head!" -- Strength check, with advantage or penalty based on the creature.

This is actually another thing that didn't get with me about TTRPGs.... sometimes they are "whatever you could do in real life if you were actually there," other times you'll be barred from something basic because of the rules.

Like I remember puzzles in Myst where you figure out how things work through trial and experimentation, like that one area with the steam-powered machines. In D&D my experience is you wouldn't even be allowed to redirect the energy if the DM suddenly said "you're playing as a fighter, your character would never think of this."

(Going with computer games this is something I always hated about western RPGs as well. I remember playing System Shock 2 and needing at least one point in any weapon you want to use. I'm like "seriously? My character can't figure out how to swing a sharp pointy thing without some skill points?")