Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Elämällä on väliä]

With that logic so should the united states

From ruzzkie point of view- yes. Is this possible to happen in near future - doubt.

But this isn't 'what SprawyHandlowe wants or what is proposed' but 'what will happen due to what he is thinking'.

 

[Foltest]

Germany and Japan atoned for their sins against the world. Exactly because of this they have future, otherwise Morgenthau Plan would've been enacted.

As for Yeltsin's "ancap hell", for once in Russia's history, the populace was actually given a chance to forge their own destiny. Yes, it was ruthless and inhumane but all the positives that Russia saw in the "fat oughts" as they call them, was the result of that...and oil.

The break is inevitable. Leaving Russia to rot and Ukraine to be a "greater Israel" is essentially dooming both nations for a "terror without end".

There was a lot of russians who wanted Russia to become a modern state.
Issue was that the Oligarchs and secrutiy services killed them, locked them up or sent them into exil.

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

Nobody is sperging. I'll try to elucidate my point, as ridiculous as it might be:

There's something about the current concept of Russianness that is enticing its citizenry to believe it even without the threat of force. My guess, it makes it very easy to make yourself a part of the collective, to be something greater than yourself, even if you sacrifice the core essence of your being (what we call freedom).

I don't wish to exterminate Russians, I don't wish to extinguish Russian culture and Russian contributions to the world. Denying that Russians have added a lot to the world would be idiotic. I have partially Russian blood myself. But Russia has been getting away with things other empires paid for already and transformed. I just wish that I'd proudly proclaim that I'm part Russian because of Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky and the likes. Not hating a part of my being because others decided to fuck it up and play Zerg.

I hope I make sense.

I'm just wondering about the "after". No one would want another post-WWI Germany and what ensued as a result. We never had nuclear power reach that state before, it's unprecedented.
Large chunk of Russians are thoroughly brainwashed, the rest are afraid to say anything for obvious reasons. People seem to underestimate the role state propaganda played in priming population for this, and the importance of breaking through it. In authoritarian regime it's like a positive feedback loop, rulers force their views through propaganda on people, and in turn people brainwashed by it just enable them further. But the source of it is still at the top, so that's what has to be knocked out.
Whatever happens, I hope everyone responsible for this will face the punishment they deserve, and that people will be exposed to the truth and at least begin to realize what they were really cheering for.

Until recently I never thought I'd get to experience what it's like to be swept up by the waves of history, never wanted to. Like a speck of dust drifting in the storm, powerless to stop it.

 

[WTBOnlineFather]

No one would want another post-WWI Germany and what ensued as a result.

Wasn't early 90s post-USSR Russia pretty much just like that? And this is the result.

 

[Fanatical Pragmatist]

How the fuck did the thread devolve into Critical Russia Theory overnight?

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

Wasn't early 90s post-USSR Russia pretty much just like that? And this is the result.

Not quite, back then it essentially just imploded on its own. Until it happens to the current regime, they might still try again. How are you going to forcibly break up and demilitarize a nuclear power? What happened to Germany after WWII simply can't happen here.
That's why the West is choosing to exhaust Russian forces in Ukraine, bleed Kremlin dry until they face military and/or political defeat, to the point their own supporters turn against them. It's the only sensible approach to this problem.
Only after putinism collapses can another path be taken. And you better hope the few sane Russians remaining get in power to break the cycle of authoritarian insanity.

 

[teriyakiburns]

How the fuck did the thread devolve into Critical Russia Theory overnight?

Probably because there's not a huge amount of news right now. No real movement on the ground, at least. Only thing of note is that Zelensky is apparently willing to talk to the chinese about a proposed peace plan, though I suspect that won't go anywhere fast.

 

[Fait Accompli]

New video from our favorite powerpointing Aussie.

How does he manage to make powerpoints so interesting? Its like a damn drug for me

 

[Kier Starmer]

Imagine "trusting" the Chinese with a peace plan. Personally, I don't trust Zilensky, he is equivalent to a beggar going from pillar to post screeching "please sir can I have some tanks." The second a country says you've had enough, he fucking does the Prince Harry defense of being a victim and implying shit like "you want Ukraine to fall." When in actuality it's like DSP draining whales of billions and then people growing cold because they can see the loop they are in of funding the war.

His statement about America losing its place in the world was the most snake shit and honestly fuck him. Europe has bent their necks over backward for the fucker, in the UK they deify the cunt comparing him to Churchill whilst people actually starve.

He has put himself in a place of mistrust and honestly I am looking forward to other powers telling the cunt "No!"

 

[mindlessobserver]

Imagine "trusting" the Chinese with a peace plan. Personally, I don't trust Zilensky, he is equivalent to a beggar going from pillar to post screeching "please sir can I have some tanks." The second a country says you've had enough, he fucking does the Prince Harry defense of being a victim and implying shit like "you want Ukraine to fall." When in actuality it's like DSP draining whales of billions and then people growing cold because they can see the loop they are in of funding the war.

His statement about America losing its place in the world was the most snake shit and honestly fuck him. Europe has bent their necks over backward for the fucker, in the UK they deify the cunt comparing him to Churchill whilst people actually starve.

He has put himself in a place of mistrust and honestly I am looking forward to other powers telling the cunt "No!"

Why would the President of a country being invaded ask for as much war material as he can get from sympathetic powers? How shameful. He should be a real man and tell his soldiers to fight off the Russians with rocks and sticks!

 

[Uranus Pink]

In war there is never enough weapons, vehicles, ammunition, fuel, food and so on. Zelensky and Ukraine are doing the same thing England had done in WWII with Lend-Lease.

 

[Thomas Talus]

Atomic Heart is funny. It's set in a fictional world where the USSR has somehow overtaken everyone in technology, giving them all the wealth and influence they could possibly want.

A bunch of oligarchs manage to fuck everything up regardless. Therefore I think the plot of the game is very Russian.

My impression (based on a limited amount of watching anime women play it) is that it uses the visual and verbal languages of Soviet triumphalism, but with the spin that, even if the promised technological marvels had materialized, the corruption on the human side of things would have ruined it all anyway.

 

[Smity Werbenjagermanjensen]

My impression (based on a limited amount of watching anime women play it) is that it uses the visual and verbal languages of Soviet triumphalism, but with the spin that, even if the promised technological marvels had materialized, the corruption on the human side of things would have ruined it all anyway.

You're pretty dead on.

Spoiler: Atomic Heart Spoilers

The main bad guy is a Soviet scientist who basically wants to remove free will from everybody, and your AI glove partner is actually the mind of another scientist who betrays you in the ending where you try and stop the main bad guy and hijacks the anti-free will project for himself, so there's not even 'good' ending.

 

[Fortyone]

Shoigu's son in law (while on a vacation on a luxurious middle eastern beach) made a video calling Russian soldiers "Z cattle" (an apt description if you ask me) and many high profile pro-war Russians are furious.



Prigozin is extra furious and wants him (his arch-rival's son in law) conscripted into Wagner as punishment and sent to the front.



Strelkov, former leader of the DPR turned pessimistic milblogger also had this to say:



I've read several major Russian milbloggers have since turned on Wagner as a result of prigozin's antics lately (shitting on Russia'a top military man's family, posting pictures of stacks of Russian dead bodies, etc.) But haven't found any solid examples I can post here yet.


As one final pic here's a heatmap of where Russian Casualties lived. Unsurprisingly it's the poor rural regions without any power or influence that take the majority of the losses while affluent areas like the Leningrad and Moscow oblasts take almost no casualties.

 

[Fanatical Pragmatist]

Why would the President of a country being invaded ask for as much war material as he can get from sympathetic powers? How shameful. He should be a real man and tell his soldiers to fight off the Russians with rocks and sticks!

Shhhhhhh...
We don't ask "what happens if Ukraine doesn't get enough weapons to continue defend itself from Russia", because it has nothing to do with Zelensky and everything to do with not actually wanting Ukraine to get more weapons, ammo and medical supplies.

 

[an retard]

View attachment 4636763

I honestly feel more sorry for the Tuvans than the Ukrainians at this point, that's a lot of young men coming home in bodybags because of some Muscovite imperial ambitions

 

[Elämällä on väliä]

Unconfirmed informations about ukrainian counteroffenisve around Bakhmut. Yes, it is non-cohensive with former informations about evacuation of personel from Bakhmut. I wanna belive in some part, but I bet on only limited operation to make vacuation easier.

Also:
https://euroweeklynews.com/2023/02/...lled-in-border-clashes-with-ukrainian-troops/ source is kinda shitty, but in other their also are rumors about this incident.

Short summary:

- allegedy destructed aicraft in ruzzkie AWACS. They only have 3 such airplanes. If it is true, now they have only 2.

- this airstrip is in Belarus and it is nearly 100% sure that some explosion have place. Totally unsure who did this and info about smashed AWACS is in this moment uncorfirmed.

 

[Fatniggo1488]

How the fuck did the thread devolve into Critical Russia Theory overnight?

Is this question rhetorical?

 

[Fait Accompli]

I honestly feel more sorry for the Tuvans than the Ukrainians at this point, that's a lot of young men coming home in bodybags because of some Muscovite imperial ambitions

I don't, most of my sympathy goes to Ukraine tbh. But i still feel for the opressed regions under Moscow rule, just as it has been for centuries. They also deserve retribution
Its important that people know this. Russia is still an empire in the traditional sense, the side we see most often of Russia is Moscow and St.Petersburg, which arguably is quite a nice place to live. But the rest of it is exploited for resources and manpower, the difference is astronomical.

Russia is one of the most degenerate and hypocritical nations on the planet, they've done a great job of revealing this and deflecting itself upon the " globohomo "
But now, the emperor is naked. If it werent for their massive stockpile of nukes, they would have been reduced at most to a regional power. They are starting to share alot of similarities with NK, especially with they road they're heading down now.

 

[Max Free]

So, real question here: After Europe has bleed themselfes dry of any usable weapons to give to the Ukrainians in the sheer hope of utilizing them as a proxy against Russia, what exactly would prevent Zelensky and Puting from an Agreement that ensures Peace between them and allows Putins forces free movement through Ukraine towards the rest of Europa, overwhelming a now virtually defenseless continent?