Islam

[Gym Leader Elesa]

You do know blasphemy consists of, "Any religion that is not Islam and that says Islam is incorrect," yes? That's not an only case. That's a -lot- of cases. Christians are called Polytheists in the Middle East if you've listened to any clerics - they claim we worship three gods. So, yeah. Anyone who says Jesus is God's son? You're dead. Anyone who questions Mohammed publicly? You're dead. It's not something so small as to be glossed over as "the only reason" just saying.

This is not exactly true. Christianity is understood as monotheistic in many places in the Middle East, usually countries with significant Christian minorities who are around to correct people, but it is important that I mention this because it goes back to the echo chamber problem. In Egypt, for instance, that view is rare on the part of Muslims- although it is on the upswing unfortunately. The question is how to halt it. In Lebanon of course, that belief has political implications, so it also at least less heard. Also, Muslim clerics are a very disparate and disagreeing lot. Shi'a sometimes have overarching Catholic style authorities, but the local Sunni Imam can often just say "whatever." Not unlike a Baptist Preacher.

 

[Doctor Professor Timon]

Christians however are not persecuted where I come from, and we do not kill them here either. We consider them to be Ahl Al-Kitab, or People of the Book along with Jews. I know full well what blasphemy is, and you don't have to worry about lecturing it to me. I would like to add that there are numerous sects and schools of Islam, and it's mostly Wahhabis that encourage this prejudice. I myself have stated before that I don't support killings of Non-Muslims. My country is not the same as Saudi Arabia or Pakistan.

"O ye who believe! surely, the idolaters are unclean (al-mushrikoona najasun). So they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year of theirs. And if you fear poverty, ALLAH will enrich you out of HIS bounty, if HE pleases. Surely, ALLAH is All-Knowing, Wise. Fight those from among the people of the Book, who believe not in ALLAH, nor in the Last Day, nor hold as unlawful what ALLAH and HIS Messenger have declared to be unlawful, nor follow the true religion, until they pay the tax considering it a favour and acknowledge their subjection. And the Jews say, ‘Ezra is the son of ALLAH,’ and the Christians say, ‘the Messiah is the son of ALLAH;’ that is what they say with their mouths. They only imitate the saying of those who disbelieved (kafaroo) before them. ALLAH's curse be on them! How they are turned away. They have taken their priest and their monks for lords besides ALLAH. And so have they taken the Messiah, son of Mary. And they were not commanded but to worship the One God. There is no God but HE. Holy is HE far above what they associate (yushrikoona) with Him! They seek to extinguish the light of ALLAH with their mouths; but ALLAH refuses but to perfect HIS light, though the disbelievers (al-kafiroona) may resent it. HE it is Who has sent HIS Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth, that HE may make it prevail over every other religion, even though the idolaters (al-mushrikoona) may resent it. S. 9:28-33 Sher Ali"

So, anyone who worships Christ or Mary is worshipping anyone, but the one God according to your own belief system. That is why there are numerous clerics in their sermons calling Christians polytheists. I told you, I actually listen to sermons and what's being said in other countries. I don't just take articles I find on the internet.

Spoiler: This guy

And, Walid Shoebat (who comes from a terrorist family and converted to Christianity) has even explained those accusations and what's being taught in a lot of mosques. So, as per usual, I would like to invite people to look things up.

So, here's the thing. According to your own book. Christians - who venerate, praise, and worship Jesus as well as God. And Catholics - who venerate, praise, and even pray to Mary, the Archangels, and God - are polytheist and do not worship a single god and, instead, are in apostasy by that very verse's phrasing. Hence, by practicing what their religion says and teaches - they are insulting Islam. It's pretty clear how anyone who believes Jesus is the son of God (as per Christian & Catholic belief) is considered a nonbeliever.

Keep in mind, what I have posted above is actually the argument used by Muslim clerics and scholars in a number of countries.

EDIT:

Figure I should link you to a site run by a Muslim and it explains things in detail about their beliefs. This is sort of like Muslim apologetics where Christians have the same things.

http://www.exploring-islam.com/are-christians-polytheists.html

Read through it if you will.

 

[Gym Leader Elesa]

And Catholics - who venerate, praise, and even pray to Mary, the Archangels, and God

This is completely heretical (formally anathema) to the church and a butchering of the doctrine of intercession. Catholics pray only to God and what you suggest would be polytheism. While many Catholics unknowingly violate that important part of canon law, to suggest that they aren't polytheists at that point would contradict even the holy church, who would accuse them of it. Especially the Congregation For the Doctrine of the Faith and especially post-Vatican II. Technically, with intercession, Catholic Christians are only asking those saints to pray for them, because of their piety, innocence, etc and the belief that they have gone to heaven ahead of them. I know that is nitpicking in this thread but in light of:

per usual, I would like to invite people to look things up.

This particularly ironic statement I felt it appropriate. This is a very common misconception among American Protestant Christians and really needs to die, fast.

Source from St.Jerome, Doctor of the Church:

"If the Apostles and Martyrs, while still in the body, can pray for others, at a time when they must still be anxious for themselves, how much more after their crowns, victories, and triumphs are won! One man, Moses, obtains from God pardon for six hundred thousand men in arms; and Stephen, the imitator of the Lord, and the first martyr in Christ, begs forgiveness for his persecutors; and shall their power be less after having begun to be with Christ? The Apostle Paul declares that two hundred three score and sixteen souls, sailing with him, were freely given him; and, after he is dissolved and has begun to be with Christ, shall he close his lips, and not be able to utter a word in behalf of those who throughout the whole world believed at his preaching of the Gospel? And shall the living dog Vigilantius be better than that dead lion? ("Contra Vigilant.", n. 6, in P.L., XXIII, 344)."

 

[Doctor Professor Timon]

This is completely heretical (formally anathema) to the church and a butchering of the doctrine of intercession. Catholics pray only to God and what you suggest would be polytheism. While many Catholics unknowingly violate that important part of canon law, to suggest that they aren't polytheists at that point would contradict even the holy church, who would accuse them of it. Especially the Congregation For the Doctrine of the Faith and especially post-Vatican II. Technically, with intercession, Catholic Christians are only asking those saints to pray for them, because of their piety, innocence, etc and the belief that they have gone to heaven ahead of them. I know that is nitpicking in this thread but in light of:



This particularly ironic statement I felt it appropriate. This is a very common misconception among American Protestant Christians and really needs to die, fast.

Please check my edit.

Regardless, Catholicism is in my family and people very much act like Mary or the saints can save them. And, yes, what you have said is correct. Many catholics DO violate it. However, I'm not a Catholic, I'm talking from personal experience. I have Catholics, Protestants, and even Orthodox Christians in my family (so, imagine how fun those family reunions are), but the point is that it is forbidden in Islamic countries to do any of it and it is considered and called polytheism. I am not saying they ARE polytheists, I am saying Islamic clerics and scholars call it such - they even call Christians such for believing in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Watch a few sermons in Islam preaching against Christians when it's translated in subtitles. You find out quite a bit.

 

[Ntwadumela]

"O ye who believe! surely, the idolaters are unclean (al-mushrikoona najasun). So they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year of theirs. And if you fear poverty, ALLAH will enrich you out of HIS bounty, if HE pleases. Surely, ALLAH is All-Knowing, Wise. Fight those from among the people of the Book, who believe not in ALLAH, nor in the Last Day, nor hold as unlawful what ALLAH and HIS Messenger have declared to be unlawful, nor follow the true religion, until they pay the tax considering it a favour and acknowledge their subjection. And the Jews say, ‘Ezra is the son of ALLAH,’ and the Christians say, ‘the Messiah is the son of ALLAH;’ that is what they say with their mouths. They only imitate the saying of those who disbelieved (kafaroo) before them. ALLAH's curse be on them! How they are turned away. They have taken their priest and their monks for lords besides ALLAH. And so have they taken the Messiah, son of Mary. And they were not commanded but to worship the One God. There is no God but HE. Holy is HE far above what they associate (yushrikoona) with Him! They seek to extinguish the light of ALLAH with their mouths; but ALLAH refuses but to perfect HIS light, though the disbelievers (al-kafiroona) may resent it. HE it is Who has sent HIS Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth, that HE may make it prevail over every other religion, even though the idolaters (al-mushrikoona) may resent it. S. 9:28-33 Sher Ali"

So, anyone who worships Christ or Mary is worshipping anyone, but the one God according to your own belief system. That is why there are numerous clerics in their sermons calling Christians polytheists. I told you, I actually listen to sermons and what's being said in other countries. I don't just take articles I find on the internet.

Spoiler: This guy

And, Walid Shoebat (who comes from a terrorist family and converted to Christianity) has even explained those accusations and what's being taught in a lot of mosques. So, as per usual, I would like to invite people to look things up.

So, here's the thing. According to your own book. Christians - who venerate, praise, and worship Jesus as well as God. And Catholics - who venerate, praise, and even pray to Mary, the Archangels, and God - are polytheist and do not worship a single god and, instead, are in apostasy by that very verse's phrasing. Hence, by practicing what their religion says and teaches - they are insulting Islam. It's pretty clear how anyone who believes Jesus is the son of God (as per Christian & Catholic belief) is considered a nonbeliever.

That still doesn't supplement my original statement that we don't kill them here. I would also like to add that many jurists and schools of thought interpret the Quran differently and will sometimes make fatwas to suit their own interests. Yes there are those who believe that Christians are Polytheist, but this is a widely debatable matter to most.
It's great that you do your research and obviously aren't ignorant, in fact I commend you for it, but you still haven't acknowledged any of my previous statements that I am not the type of person who would go out and murder people because they have a different religious belief. This is a verse from Surat Al-Luqman that states that it's much better to treat those who aren't Muslim with kindness than to kill them along with the original Arabic transcription:

وَإِنْ جَاهَدَاكَ عَلى أَنْ تُشْرِكَ بِي مَا لَيْسَ لَكَ بِهِ عِلْمٌ فَلاَ تُطِعْهُمَا وَصَاحِبْهُمَا فِي الدُّنْيَا مَعْرُوفًا
“And if they insist on you to associate with Me (someone as on object of worship) of what you have no knowledge, then do not obey them, however interact with them in this world kindly …”
(31:15)
This verse in essence means that as Muslims we shouldn't share your religious beliefs, but we should still treat you kindly and justly. It mostly applies to your parents, but can be applied to other people as well. Note how I never mentioned or expressed hatred or disdain at you or other people on this board because of differing beliefs. I am an honest person at heart, and I can tell you wholeheartedly that I would never kill anyone because they believed in something different to me. Hell, I believe religion shouldn't have any say in politics whatsoever.
I would also like to ask something more personal and slightly off topic . Have you studied the Arabic language? You seem to be informed on the subject at hand, and if not, I can be of assistance if you have doubts. Whatever verses that exclaim that we should kill those who are not Muslim are only applicable in the case of war when we are being attacked. In fact, murder is a major sin in my religion.
I would also like to add that just because you aren't Muslim doesn't automatically mean you'll go straight to hell. Muslims who do bad deeds are also eligible to eternal damnation, and people who are just and good will only spend a certain period of time in Hell, than are transported to Heaven.
There is a Hadith where a prostitute gave a thirsty dog some water from her shoe. When she died, it is said she went to Heaven. As long as you have rightful intentions in life, you will be rewarded.
I understand clearly that you do your research well, but obviously there is human error in research. All of us are naturally like that, this is what makes us human.

 

[Doctor Professor Timon]

That still doesn't supplement my original statement that we don't kill them here. I would also like to add that many jurists and schools of thought interpret the Quran differently and will sometimes make fatwas to suit their own interests. Yes there are those who believe that Christians are Polytheist, but this is a widely debatable matter to most.
It's great that you do your research and obviously aren't ignorant, in fact I commend you for it, but you still haven't acknowledged any of my previous statements that I am not the type of person who would go out and murder people because they have a different religious belief. This is a verse from Surat Al-Luqman that states that it's much better to treat those who aren't Muslim with kindness than to kill them along with the original Arabic transcription:

وَإِنْ جَاهَدَاكَ عَلى أَنْ تُشْرِكَ بِي مَا لَيْسَ لَكَ بِهِ عِلْمٌ فَلاَ تُطِعْهُمَا وَصَاحِبْهُمَا فِي الدُّنْيَا مَعْرُوفًا
“And if they insist on you to associate with Me (someone as on object of worship) of what you have no knowledge, then do not obey them, however interact with them in this world kindly …”
(31:15)
This verse in essence means that as Muslims we shouldn't share your religious beliefs, but we should still treat you kindly and justly. Note how I never mentioned or expressed hatred or disdain at you or other people on this board because of differing beliefs. I am an honest person at heart, and I can tell you wholeheartedly that I would never kill anyone because they believed in something different to me. Hell, I believe religion shouldn't have any say in politics whatsoever.
I would also like to ask something more personal and slightly off topic . Have you studied the Arabic language? You seem to be informed on the subject at hand, and if not, I can be of assistance if you have doubts. Whatever verses that exclaim that we should kill those who are not Muslim are only applicable in the case of war when we are being attacked. In fact, murder is a major sin in my religion.
I would also like to add that just because you aren't Muslim doesn't automatically mean you'll go straight to hell. Muslims who do bad deeds are also eligible to eternal damnation, and people who are just and good will only spend a certain period of time in Hell, than are transported to Heaven.
There is a Hadith where a prostitute gave a thirsty dog some water from her shoe. When she died, it is said she went to Heaven. As long as you have rightful intentions in life, you will be rewarded.
I understand clearly that you do your research well, but obviously there is human error in research. All of us are naturally like that, this is what makes us human.

I do not speak Arabic, I speak passable Spanish and French. When I have to, I go to websites that break down passages (even Biblical ones) from whether it's Hebrew, Arabic, Greek, etc. Word by word and explains the context of each word. I have to rely on people who speak Arabic and who explain things in English as well. Secondly, according to them, nowhere in the Quran does it say those only apply in war. According to ALL of the Muslims I know who speak Arabic who actually knew or know the Quran (whether they've converted or not) the [in war] that is in the English Quran does not exist in the original Arabic. I ask multiple people before I come to a conclusion and only people I actually trust.

But Christians believe that Jesus is the only way to heaven. That's kind of part of the whole deal. As the link I provided said when explaining these things - and this is from a Muslim, mind you.

"God will say: “This is the day when honesty (truthfulness) of the honest (truthful) will be of benefit to them. For them shall be orchards below which canals are running; they shall dwell therein forever. This is the great success. (5:119)

You wrote: "Allah tells us the Christians are closest to us in worship."

If you are referring to the verse 5:82, this is not what the verse says. What the verse says is that the Nasara (who were a special group of Christians at the time in Arabia) compared to the Jews and the polytheists in Arabia at the time of the Prophet (pbuh), have more affection towards Muslims. "

 

[Gym Leader Elesa]

Please check my edit.

Regardless, Catholicism is in my family and people very much act like Mary or the saints can save them. And, yes, what you have said is correct. Many catholics DO violate it. However, I'm not a Catholic, I'm talking from personal experience. I have Catholics, Protestants, and even Orthodox Christians in my family (so, imagine how fun those family reunions are), but the point is that it is forbidden in Islamic countries to do any of it and it is considered and called polytheism. I am not saying they ARE polytheists, I am saying Islamic clerics and scholars call it such - they even call Christians such for believing in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Watch a few sermons in Islam preaching against Christians when it's translated in subtitles. You find out quite a bit.

I have, you may apparently be surprised to hear, read through the Qu'ran and because I would like to continue a civil and informed discussion, read through your edit. I find it interesting, however, that comparable statements from many Christians can be found condemning Islam as a heathen, pagan religion and with extreme ease and in relatively large numbers. I wonder why that might be? Could there be a loud, vocal minority? Now, you might say that it is ultimately the effect those views have in the public sphere that matter but since we are having a theological discussion I felt the need to point this out. Chick tracts, the Evangelical Communion of Churches, etc, all hold to this belief and carry more sway (as Donald Trump unfortunately demonstrates) than is oft acknowledged. Do they hold anything close to the power in our societies that radical Islam does in their own?

No, it's not even comparable, actually. Radical Islam is having a violent effect on the world that ultra-traditionalist Christianity simply isn't. But they're trying and hard. With Bush they arguably succeeded at doing even more damage. I just don't want people to pretend like the Society of Saint Pious X doesn't exist. You are acting like this theology isn't extremely debatable even in Islamic circles. You are pretending that a handful of incidental sources who interpret the Qu'ran in very specific ways aren't forming the crux of your argument. You say that you are well informed and do your research and yet apparently Hanbali jurisprudence and theology is the only thing that exists. Apparently dissenting voices in Shafi'i, hanafi, or even Ja'fari circles aren't real and don't relate to other religions very differently. I guess my views fall ultimately somewhere between yours and @Ntwadumela.

That said, I only felt the need to nitpick about Catholicism because you ended up picking an example in which the Islamists would ironically be quite correct. Praying to an angel would make you a polytheist.

ITT: a filthy kafir polytheist debates an awkward middle ground between two monotheists.

 

[Ntwadumela]

I do not speak Arabic, I speak passable Spanish and French. When I have to, I go to websites that break down passages (even Biblical ones) from whether it's Hebrew, Arabic, Greek, etc. Word by word and explains the context of each word. I have to rely on people who speak Arabic and who explain things in English as well. Secondly, according to them, nowhere in the Quran does it say those only apply in war. According to ALL of the Muslims I know who speak Arabic who actually knew or know the Quran (whether they've converted or not) the [in war] that is in the English Quran does not exist in the original Arabic. I ask multiple people before I come to a conclusion and only people I actually trust.

But Christians believe that Jesus is the only way to heaven. That's kind of part of the whole deal. As the link I provided said when explaining these things - and this is from a Muslim, mind you.

"God will say: “This is the day when honesty (truthfulness) of the honest (truthful) will be of benefit to them. For them shall be orchards below which canals are running; they shall dwell therein forever. This is the great success. (5:119)

You wrote: "Allah tells us the Christians are closest to us in worship."

If you are referring to the verse 5:82, this is not what the verse says. What the verse says is that the Nasara (who were a special group of Christians at the time in Arabia) compared to the Jews and the polytheists in Arabia at the time of the Prophet (pbuh), have more affection towards Muslims. "

That's exactly my point. Since there are so many different schools of thought, they will all say different interpretations. Christianity I'm sure you're aware of has the same story. There is Presbyterian, Catholic, Protestant and so on and so forth that have different interpretations of the Bible. I however am a native Arabic speaker as well as being fluent in English, and having studied my religion extensively in school know exactly what I'm talking about. I personally believe that you can have whatever belief you want to, I will not have any grudge towards you for being Christian. I have friends who are not just Muslim of either Sunni or Shia, but Christian, Hindu, Druze, even Atheist. The fact of the matter is, people will interpret the Quran differently and there is still debate By scholars. I understand your intentions fully, but hear me out. I was not only raised in Islam, but I was also raised to treat other people with respect, whether Muslim or not, while still retaining my beliefs.

 

[AnOminous]

And, Walid Shoebat (who comes from a terrorist family and converted to Christianity) has even explained those accusations and what's being taught in a lot of mosques. So, as per usual, I would like to invite people to look things up.

Walid Shoebat is a fraud and a liar.

 

[Vitriol]

This is completely heretical (formally anathema) to the church and a butchering of the doctrine of intercession. Catholics pray only to God and what you suggest would be polytheism. While many Catholics unknowingly violate that important part of canon law, to suggest that they aren't polytheists at that point would contradict even the holy church, who would accuse them of it. Especially the Congregation For the Doctrine of the Faith and especially post-Vatican II. Technically, with intercession, Catholic Christians are only asking those saints to pray for them, because of their piety, innocence, etc and the belief that they have gone to heaven ahead of them. I know that is nitpicking in this thread but in light of:

I would absolutely be willing for people to debate catholic v protestant theology in deep thoughts as i think both sides could stand to learn a lot from each other and indeed despite growing up in the west christian theology is a fascinating and byzantine subject most of us d not encounter, however i will ask that we do not have the tangent here.

I'm not picking on you in particular- you have just written a thoughtful and reasoned post that i think will start a tangent, by all means please feel free to author an OP on the subject general.

 

[💗Freddie Freaker💗]

https://kiwifarms.net/threads/terror-trouble-in-orlando.21516 (moved from the news thread)https://kiwifarms.net/threads/terror-trouble-in-orlando.21516

Why is it always the muslims who pull this kind of shit?

I bet isisfags would make great lolcows or horrorcows if they had more presence on the internet.

 

[NoStinkingBadges]

Why is it always the muslims who pull this kind of shit?

I bet isisfags would make great lolcows or horrorcows if they had more presence on the internet.

Because unlike pretty much any other group who pulls off this kind of bullshit, Muslims tend to get a ton of support from the regressive left.

 

[Xerxes IX]

Why is it always the muslims who pull this kind of shit?

I bet isisfags would make great lolcows or horrorcows if they had more presence on the internet.

Something about Islam either inherently draws violent extremists or otherwise doesn't discourage them from committing acts of terror and mass murder.

 

[Ntwadumela]

Something about Islam either inherently draws violent extremists or otherwise doesn't discourage them from committing acts of terror and mass murder.

Or, it's that extremists want to make a global statement and incite hatred towards everyone in the world.

 

[ActualKiwi]

Something about Islam either inherently draws violent extremists or otherwise doesn't discourage them from committing acts of terror and mass murder.

Maybe the promise of virgins-upon-death? Or the whole big-upping martyrs..

 

[Super Collie]

Something about Islam either inherently draws violent extremists or otherwise doesn't discourage them from committing acts of terror and mass murder.

Maybe the promise of virgins-upon-death? Or the whole big-upping martyrs..

The reason is because Islamic culture is just a cesspool of violent Neanderthals clinging to stone age beliefs. Their religion preaches nothing of merit other than jihad and whatever other bullshit durka-speak synonyms they have for it and they idolize and encourage martyrdom because they're petty people who refuse to change their ways. Their religion preys upon the intellectually deficient because they are willing to actually believe they will get 72 virgins if they kill a bunch of infidels. They're THAT stupid.

Look at how they treat their women. Look at how they treat gays. Look at how well they get along with first-would countries. Yeah, sure are a bunch of winners aren't they?

 

[Ntwadumela]

The reason is because Islamic culture is just a cesspool of violent Neanderthals clinging to stone age beliefs. Their religion preaches nothing of merit other than jihad and whatever other bullshit durka-speak synonyms they have for it and they idolize and encourage martyrdom because they're petty people who refuse to change their ways. Their religion preys upon the intellectually deficient because they are willing to actually believe they will get 72 virgins if they kill a bunch of infidels. They're THAT stupid.

Look at how they treat their women. Look at how they treat gays. Look at how well they get along with first-would countries. Yeah, sure are a bunch of winners aren't they?

You're correct. There are exceptions however, like my country Kuwait for example. Not only do women have a lot of rights here but gays aren't even killed here and neither are those who aren't Muslim. It's also allies with the United States of America and has condemned terrorist organizations like ISIS. I know because those bastards bombed my country last year and I'm speaking from personal experiences with others.

 

[IwegalBadnik]

Maybe the promise of virgins-upon-death? Or the whole big-upping martyrs..

(I realize you are speculating on causes and am speaking to the notion collectively myself)

I'm not sure why the virgins would be such an enticement for most of these fuck ups--it usually means more of the same for these guys. It always seems like a fair portion of these animals are virgins with rage themselves.

 

[Guardian G.I.]

Why is it always the muslims who pull this kind of shit?

Pardon me if I sound like a regressive leftist in this tragic moment, but I think Islamic terrorism has less to do with religion and more with ethnicity and culture.

Spoiler: spergan

Muslims tend to differ, and Russia is a very good example. There are Tatars, and there are Chechens - both are Muslim, but Tatars don't blow up metro trains and passenger airplanes, and Wahhabism isn't popular there, despite attempts by Islamists to spread their ideology in Tatarstan back in the 90s and 00s. Their relatives, Lipka Tatars, are similar - they are the descendants of Tatar warlords and their war parties from the Golden Horde, who defected to the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and were granted land with freedom to follow their religion by the Grand Dukes (multicultural horror!). Nevertheless, they kept quiet, adopted the local language and customs, and lived side-by-side with Christians and Jews in peace; a few of them still do today in Belarusian and Polish countryside. Crimean Tatars, despite their past history of raids against neighbouring countries, and Muslim Slavs like Bosniaks aren't fanatic as well.

My opinion is - there are peoples which are more inclined towards such violence, and vice versa. Muslim people who don't oppose others tend to be less inclined towards Islamism, and vice versa - it depends on the level of xenophobia in their society. Islamic terrorism is simple xenophobic hatred towards other cultures, religions and ways of life, not unlike similar violent beliefs elsewhere, and whatever they cite from Quran is simply an excuse to justify dividing people into "us and them" - for example, Chechen Islamism originated from similarly violent Chechen nationalism, which was based on hatred of Russians. In my opinion, Islamism originates from the society itself and its hatred of others. If intolerance and violence towards others was ingrained in Islam itself, as claimed by people like Milo, it would be present everywhere, no matter the country, nation and culture, like it happens with totalitarian sects and cults - you can't say that, for example, American Scientologists are violent assholes, but British ones help old ladies cross the street, and German ones aren't bad. They all want your money, no matter if they are in USA, Russia or Papua New Guinea, because they are a sect, and that's what they aim to do from the start. However, Tatar Islamic terrorists can hardly be found, but Arabs...

 

[Internet War Criminal]

than equally violent strands of Christianity are in the West.

That's because there are not only no "equally violent" strands in the West, there are literally no violent strands at all. There is simply no comparison between the two and people who use bullshit moral relativism or ridiculous analogies like the crusades (horrible war of self-defense from Muslim aggression) or killings over abortion (8 in the last 40 years, 4 of them in the last year by a legit schizo freak) are anti-western retards and the useful idiots of our day.

Islam is a cancer to society and needs to either reform completely or be excised from the West. There can be no coexistence with Islam as it is at this moment