Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Random Internet Person]

Its worse then that really. Russia aimed for the King and missed. They may have had a leg to stand on with respect to territorial concessions in exchange for Peace, had they not gone for Kiev on day 1 of the invasion. That move crystalized the political elite of Ukraine with the virulently Anti-Russian West of the country.

Before that move, if you had asked the average Hohol on the streets of Lviv if they would be willing to exchange all of the Donbass and even Kharkiv if it meant an end to bullshit shenanigans with the Muscovites, they would have said "Fuck Kharkiv and Mariople" in a heart beat. Because the Russian propaganda about how the people West of the Dneiper viewed the people East of the Dneiper WAS accurate. They viewed them, not without reason, as a fifth column undermining their nice and ordered Ukrainian State.

But the Donbass was not enough for Putin. He wanted the old Empire back, and that meant he NEEDED Kiev. Not for any economic or strategic reasons, but because Kiev was necessary to justify his revanchist historical narrative. And that was the bridge too far for Lviv and the Western Ukrainians, because that bridge was the bridge to denying their own cultural and historical existence. That move, is what turned this into an all out war.

And it is why peace atm is intractable, because from day 1, Russia didn't make this about Land, it made this about the very existence of an entire European cultural group.

So what you’re saying is Putin’s “I don’t want NATO and NATO freindly countries on my doorstep” justification is full of shit.

View attachment 4692148
CNN Link
Bellingcat Link

I told you guys this retarded anime gang was real. Now they have a CNN and a Bellingcat investigation article.

Given that one of the boys has Misa Amane from Death Note on his shirt, at least we don’t have to worry about them having shit taste.

 

[Snekposter]

Yeah, they're pulling out now, so the battle should be over in a couple more days or so. Congratulations Russia! You have taken a town of 50k people prewar population! It cost you 8 months of progress in the Donbas, ~70k casualties of which at least 20 to 30k are dead, god knows how much equipment lost, and you STILL failed to encircle any large Ukrainian formations or capture large amounts of equipment. Oh, and you still haven't hit the main defensive line yet. It's like Tarawa or Monte Cassino. Lots of blood for not really any gain



EDIT:

Better analogy, it'd be like if the Allies had taken 8 months to pass the Bernhardt Line.

To be fair, Italy is A. rough terrain, B. the Germans had dug in like fucking ticks, and C. Kesselring was extremely good at his job.

Russia has a very large military train repair crew and engineering units dedicated to that. Not a huge shock. It's specialized work but they're more than capable of quickly doing it.

Yeah, but all it takes is a single 155mm shell and the rails are useless until you send a crew out to fill the hole and repair the track. Its a Sisyphean task, and any of the Germans who were shipped around the country patching up what was broken by Allied bombs would tell you that. Keep in mind every single crew fixing rail isn't one that's laying rail to connect lines, such as oh... one from Bakhmut directly to the Russian logistics network. You also have things like cargo handling platforms that can get hit that are a lot harder to fix than just some steel rail.

In real world no-one is smashing roads or track just to low effectivness of this. Only points which cannot be repaired in quick time are bridges and so one, but in normal terms it is like week or two to make repairs, not months. Better option is to make shit with logistic base or vehicles than roads.

During WW2 sending partisans after rail lines to delay troop movements was a favored tactic by all of the Allies, including the Russians. Sure, its relatively easy to fill in holes and fix the track... but not if half the line has been blown up.

And it is why peace atm is intractable, because from day 1, Russia didn't make this about Land, it made this about the very existence of an entire European cultural group.

The vatniks hate that a distinctly Ukrainian/Kievan culture has managed to survive centuries of the best efforts of Russia to stamp it out.

So what you’re saying is Putin’s “I don’t want NATO and NATO freindly countries on my doorstep” justification is full of shit.

Russia has hated that the people who live down there don't like following Moscow's orders and would rather do their own thing for a long, long time. Give you one guess who Lenin conquered first during the Russian Civil War after he got Moscow organized and under his control...

 

[mindlessobserver]

So what you’re saying is Putin’s “I don’t want NATO and NATO freindly countries on my doorstep” justification is full of shit.

I am saying Putin is an idiot, and has ended any hope of ethnic Russians having a future in whatever Ukrainian State emerges from this mess. If he "wins" he is emperor of the ashes, standing atop ruins from which the Ethnic Russians he displaced to Europe and North America will never return too, and curse him unto their graves and the graves and their children.

And if he loses? Well, those same displaced people may never return either, because the Ukrainian Government is now finally free of even pretending it gives a shit about its Russian Minority. Those Russian speaking kids under its jurisdiction will go to state school to learn Ukrainian, salute Bandera, and their parents will allow it.

Those are the only two outcomes Putin has left remaining from this mess.

 

[Clownish]

Matt Gaetz tried to use Chinese propaganda during a congressional hearing to go after Azov, and got called out by the witness.

People pronounce the name of Azov like it stands for the Ukrainian National Socialist Party, when it's just the name of the Sea of Azov.

 

[GatorAids]

View attachment 4694188

Matt Gaetz tried to use Chinese propaganda during a congressional hearing to go after Azov, and got called out by the witness.

People pronounce the name of Azov like it stands for the Ukrainian National Socialist Party, when it's just the name of the Sea of Azov.

People on the right really need to stop falling for this retarded line of thinking. A line of thinking that is certainly not uniquely Russian but Russia over the last 100+ years exemplifies it. It's a mode of thinking where you correctly identify a legitimate problem but then take the absolute worst course of action to "correct" it.

The Tsar is being an absolute dickhead? Correct. Let's turn half of Europe into an open air slave state! Incorrect. Globohomo is objectively evil and anti-humanity? Correct. Let's kick off a retarded war and make millions of innocent people suffer and die. Incorrect.

It's not just that these niggers choose a bad option, they actively choose the worst course of action they can under the circumstances and make themselves look like total retards. Similar to Chris Cantwell when that retard was involved in the FSP and went around screaming at crossing guards. You do your cause no favor by acting like a schizo, falling for obvious propaganda, and having massively obvious double standards where you abandon all foundations of your beliefs to own da libs.

 

[Jewthulhu]

Exactly, the most accurate comparison would be with Russia as Iraq and Ukraine as Kuwait. If Iraq had nukes it probably would have ended up with even more similarities (in addition to both Putin and Saddam's love of killing their own people for literally no reason).

TBF Putin "disappearing" dissidents and his love of strategic bombing hardly compares to the very public and systematic executions and liberal use of WMDs during the Saddam regime.

View attachment 4694188

Matt Gaetz tried to use Chinese propaganda during a congressional hearing to go after Azov, and got called out by the witness.

People pronounce the name of Azov like it stands for the Ukrainian National Socialist Party, when it's just the name of the Sea of Azov.

It's fucking bizarre when Republicans (and the "right" in general) are echoing Chinese propaganda and Democrats are making visits to Taiwan. It's like everyone switched sides overnight.

 

[MS Paint Gigachad]

So what you’re saying is Putin’s “I don’t want NATO and NATO freindly countries on my doorstep” justification is full of shit.

no country has the right to friendly neighbors. Ask the Poles. Or better yet, the Ukrainians.

 

[Random Internet Person]

no country has the right to friendly neighbors. Ask the Poles. Or better yet, the Ukrainians.

You’re not wrong, but I believe Russia’s issue is that it’s neighbor is openly being antagonistic, and getting pretty damn close to some who’d love to see Putin removed and probably Russia as we know it wiped off the map.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

You’re not wrong, but I believe Russia’s issue is that it’s neighbor is openly being antagonistic, and getting pretty damn close to some who’d love to see Putin removed and probably Russia as we know it wiped off the map.

Everyone who is antagonistic has reason to be so: because Russia fucked with them first.

 

[Ghostse]

My therapist minister of the interior: The anime street gang isn't real. They can't hurt you politically or cause domestic distruption
Russian Anime Street Gang:

View attachment 4692148
CNN Link
Bellingcat Link

I told you guys this retarded anime gang was real. Now they have a CNN and a Bellingcat investigation article.

 

[GatorAids]

You’re not wrong, but I believe Russia’s issue is that it’s neighbor is openly being antagonistic, and getting pretty damn close to some who’d love to see Putin removed and probably Russia as we know it wiped off the map.

I would actually agree and be sympathetic to Russia if Russia hadn't given about 75% of the world has a good reason to hate Russia and all it stands for.

Wouldn't you agree Mr. Random Internet Person? Mr. Random Internet Person would you not agree? The poster felt a sense of unease speaking to a poster with more stickers than himself but Mr. Random Internet Poster was neccesary. Mr. Random Internet Poster do you agree? Mr. Random Randomavich Internet Internetovich Poster Posterovich.

Sorry I drank too much Vodka and forgot I don't live in Russian literature world where I need to incessantly state the full name and title of the person I'm talking to every other syllable.

Spoiler

Jesus Christ Russian literature is insufferable because of this. WE KNOW HOW TO READ DIALOGUE YOU DUMB DRUNK MONGOLOIDS. WRITE LIKE A HUMAN NOT A UNIT OF RAM

 

[Elämällä on väliä]

Judging by the peppering in the last 3 or 4 pages of this thread, the vanguard has already arrived.

Look at massdebates, Kumbaya is trying to make flex on.. something weird.

if you want to really fuck shit up hard, you figure out the train schedule and destroy a section of track right before the train passes over it.

In this case fucking with track is just a bonus to smashin down cargo and train. Actions of soviet and polish partisans against german rail traffic was concerned around derailing trains. How it worked is difficult to tell, they put a shitload of propaganda on that topic.

Sure, its relatively easy to fill in holes and fix the track... but not if half the line has been blown up.

Yes, but rather because targeting trains or railroads is relatively easy and cheap. Not because it was a wunderwaffen.

It can give a tactical advantage (i.e. in short time it will be a battle for town X, so it will be cool if before it rail traffic will stop for few days). But if someone thinks that he will be able to smash down enemy logistic on strategic level just by blazing up roads and tracks it will probably didn't work.

 

[Techpriest Mk II]

You’re not wrong, but I believe Russia’s issue is that it’s neighbor is openly being antagonistic, and getting pretty damn close to some who’d love to see Putin removed and probably Russia as we know it wiped off the map.

In every case that is something the Russians brought upon themselves through their actions over the last 200 years. Turns out being an imperialist dick tends to make the neighbors you fucked with not too fond of you.

 

[Corette]

You’re not wrong, but I believe Russia’s issue is that it’s neighbor is openly being antagonistic, and getting pretty damn close to some who’d love to see Putin removed and probably Russia as we know it wiped off the map.

There's a beautiful vision.

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

Everyone who is antagonistic has reason to be so: because Russia fucked with them first.

Preach. Russia could've genuinely tried to make amends with their neighbors, but they only seek to dominate. Especially when it comes to Ukraine, because not having Kiev is their sore spot cuz muh Rus or some shit.
What's especially scary to me is the whole "Ukrainians are actually Russians, they just forgot that they are, so we must do everything that we can in order to make them remember", this "brother nation" and "lost brothers" shit creeps me out. The implication is that they're morally justified in doing anything to Ukrainians because they supposedly don't know any better and that it's necessary for their own good.
Forget the fact that these people existed before Moscow was even established, and have rich history of their own. Russia denies all that, they have effectively erased Ukrainians as people in their minds, and are now trying to do it in a very literal and corporeal sense.

Europe was mired in wars for centuries, yet they found a way to coexist peacefully. France doesn't have to worry about being invaded by British or Germans and vice versa. "I'm scared of NATO" garbage is poor dressing for Russia's imperialism and revanchism. They want to be seen as righteous, despite claiming to not care about what anyone else thinks. I'm sick of the fucking hypocrisy and lies, they can't even be honest about their ambitions. Putin is a diet Yahya Khan.

 

[teriyakiburns]

France doesn't have to worry about being invaded by British

Oh they do, we're just lulling them into a false sense of security. Then, when they least expect it, our entire army will get on the Eurostar and ride to conquer Paris.

 

[Elämällä on väliä]

Look at this beauty.

Whoever will guess what the hell ruzzkies are thinking doing this should win a Noble prize.

 

[Corette]

View attachment 4696856

Look at this beauty.

Whoever will guess what the hell ruzzkies are thinking doing this should win a Noble prize.

Does anyone have any idea what battlefield role that thing is supposed to have?
My best guess is mobile anti-air/anti-drone.

 

[FunPosting101]

View attachment 4696856

Look at this beauty.

Whoever will guess what the hell ruzzkies are thinking doing this should win a Noble prize.

Looks like a heavy machine gun mounted into some sort of armored cockpit/turret thing? Either for close Anti-Air work or Infantry Support.

 

[Absolutego]

Everyone who is antagonistic has reason to be so: because Russia fucked with them first.

One notable exception: Mongolia
Because the Mongols fucked with Russia so hard they gave the Russkies the idea of a unified state for the Rus to defend themselves against external invasion in the first place.