Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Foltest]

So I went back and found the first one
View attachment 4698022
View attachment 4698009View attachment 4698010
My bad, later than Nov. & captured in the vicinity of Vulhedar; not destroyed.

Edit: upon further digging, they're definitely using these for anti-drone work; or at least spraying Ukrainian treelines from afar.

Here are more examples:
View attachment 4698042View attachment 4698045

shit looks like stuff the german build in WW II.
If I think about a 1930-40s halftrack if I look at equpiment that are used in a modern war, something is deeply deeply wrong.

 

[MG-34]

shit looks like stuff the german build in WW II.
If I think about a 1930-40s halftrack if I look at equpiment that are used in a modern war, something is deeply deeply wrong.

I feel like I'm going to get Iraq and Yugoslavia flashbacks where Russia fanboys are going to insist that all this crap is just the lower tech versions of the super capable and superior to NATO tech wargear and the real T-72s/T-90s/T-14s and other Russian super weapons are just being kept in reserve.

 

[Snekposter]

shit looks like stuff the german build in WW II.
If I think about a 1930-40s halftrack if I look at equpiment that are used in a modern war, something is deeply deeply wrong.

The Russians have never been particularly sophisticated. Their first proper mechanized transport was the BTR-50, and it entered service in 1954. It was open-topped and only had provision for a .30 cal MG, not even a Dushka or KPVT, and its armor could barely stop shrapnel, never mind what would happen to the guys inside thanks to lacking even roof hatches. And yes, the guys in the back were supposed to leave via clambering over the side... totally safe with nothing that can go wrong for guys hauling god knows how much kit on them. Prior to that the BTR-152 which had entered service in 1950 was their primary armored transport, which was a six-wheeled APC built on a cargo truck chassis... the pinnacle of 1930's military technology.

Russia in 1950:

USA in 1939:

USA in 1943:

 

[MG-34]

The Russians have never been particularly sophisticated. Their first proper mechanized transport was the BTR-50, and it entered service in 1954. It was open-topped and only had provision for a .30 cal MG, not even a Dushka or KPVT, and its armor could barely stop shrapnel, never mind what would happen to the guys inside thanks to lacking even roof hatches. And yes, the guys in the back were supposed to leave via clambering over the side... totally safe with nothing that can go wrong for guys hauling god knows how much kit on them. Prior to that the BTR-152 which had entered service in 1950 was their primary armored transport, which was a six-wheeled APC built on a cargo truck chassis... the pinnacle of 1930's military technology.

Russia in 1950:
View attachment 4698436
USA in 1939:
View attachment 4698442
USA in 1943:
View attachment 4698460

Funny, the BTR-50M has been spotted on team Zigger

 

[Snekposter]

Funny, the BTR-50M has been spotted on team ZiggerView attachment 4698465

Oh, I know. I can't tell if its funny, sad, or both.

 

[Trig.Point]

I feel like I'm going to get Iraq and Yugoslavia flashbacks where Russia fanboys are going to insist that all this crap is just the lower tech versions of the super capable and superior to NATO tech wargear and the real T-72s/T-90s/T-14s and other Russian super weapons are just being kept in reserve.

When Victor Suvorov wrote about 'Monkey Model' export versions of weapons in his (very funny) book inside the Red Army, a lot of western analysts latched onto it. The Mig 23 had turned out to be a turd, they could tell by looking at it that it would be a crappy dog fighter and no radar the USSR could manufacture would give it proper beyond visual range targetting.

The T-72 wasn't exactly a game changer and when US got one in the 80's they seemed to be actually puzzled by it. It had no Thermal Imager, mediocre stabilizer, mechanical fire control, the gun was inaccurate and the AP ammunition used steel penetrators instead of tungsten or Depleted uranium. Yeah it had an autoloader, but so what?

The idea that there were improved versions operated by crack Russian troops allowed interested parties to keep upping the threat.

 

[Fait Accompli]

Wait is it confirmed that Russia is using the BTR-50?

 

[MG-34]

Wait is it confirmed that Russia is using the BTR-50?

Popular Mechanics is reporting it:

Russia, So Desperate for Armor, Is Digging Up Ancient Soviet Amphibious Vehicles

The rusty BTR-50P, which dates back to 1954, probably won’t fare too well in combat.

www.popularmechanics.com

 

[Snekposter]

When Victor Suvorov wrote about 'Monkey Model' export versions of weapons in his (very funny) book inside the Red Army, a lot of western analysts latched onto it. The Mig 23 had turned out to be a turd, they could tell by looking at it that it would be a crappy dog fighter and no radar the USSR could manufacture would give it proper beyond visual range targetting.

The T-72 wasn't exactly a game changer and when US got one in the 80's they seemed to be actually puzzled by it. It had no Thermal Imager, mediocre stabilizer, mechanical fire control, the gun was inaccurate and the AP ammunition used steel penetrators instead of tungsten or Depleted uranium. Yeah it had an autoloader, but so what?

The idea that there were improved versions operated by crack Russian troops allowed interested parties to keep upping the threat.

*Laughs in Viktor Belenko*
The MiG-25 was widely considered some level of threat to the USA even after we had gotten our hands on some of its actual specs... and then we got our hands on one, and a pilot willing to tell us everything we wanted to know about Red Air Force operations. The radar was dogshit (no pulse doppler capability until 1979!), the plane couldn't maneuver or carry a significant weapons load, and that's assuming the ground crews hadn't turned the ethanol used for the coolant and de-icing systems into vodka. But hey, it went really, really fast in a straight line and flew really high!

 

[Jewthulhu]

Hopefully the Russians will try to hunt Bradleys with them, but I doubt it.

You don't really use IFVs for armor-hunting anyway.

I feel like I'm going to get Iraq and Yugoslavia flashbacks where Russia fanboys are going to insist that all this crap is just the lower tech versions of the super capable and superior to NATO tech wargear and the real T-72s/T-90s/T-14s and other Russian super weapons are just being kept in reserve.

If they don't use it, they functionally might as well not have it. And from what I understand, production of their latest tech like the T-14 or SU-57 was/is extremely limited, to the point where saying they don't have it is more or less accurate.

 

[Techpriest Mk II]

Eh. Light offensive drones are a new threat I don't think anyone expected. They're much cheaper to use and replace than they are to shoot down with modern systems, so pulling out old AA or turret systems is all you can really do at the moment. Ghettoizing an APC with a patrol-boat turret for anti-drone work actually kind of makes sense here, as ugly as it looks.

The issue is the turret traverse is garbage unpowered and those are very low ROF guns. Sure, they might be useful against softer targets but against a fast drone? They’re unlikely to hit it unless they’re using prox fuses which I doubt they are.

 

[Racist Trash]

I can't believe that Ukraine launched this war against Russia by having Russia invade Ukraine!

 

[Jewthulhu]

I can't believe that Ukraine launched this war against Russia by having Russia invade Ukraine!

It's the west fault! If we didn't so violently send Ukraine a relatively modest amount of military aid after Russia invaded Crimea Russia never would have been FORCED to attack Ukraine.

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

View attachment 4696856

Look at this beauty.

Whoever will guess what the hell ruzzkies are thinking doing this should win a Noble prize.

"Mom, I want BMPT Terminator"
"We have BMPT Terminator at home"
BMPT Terminator at home:

Want to know what being in the middle of a Russian WP incendiary attack looks like?

Bakhmut last night:
View attachment 4697060
Beautiful but deadly.

How come white phosphorous is still used? Isn't it super fucking horrific and inhumane? I thought it was banned by international treaties, not that Russia cares for those.
Edit: Thermite? What for?

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

You don't really use IFVs for armor-hunting anyway.

True, but Bradleys are also IFVs, which should be fair game. I'm just curious if they're going to wait for the Bradleys & CV-90s to show up before sending in these particular wunderwaffe to take them on, or keep them in the rear for propaganda purposes (by avoiding losses & blasting empty "Ukrainian positions" in the rear areas around Donetsk).

If they don't use it, they functionally might as well not have it. And from what I understand, production of their latest tech like the T-14 or SU-57 was/is extremely limited, to the point where saying they don't have it is more or less accurate.

Even when they commit things with low production numbers like BMPTs, they've not accomplished much; if anything they help Ukraine more just by getting blown up.

Afterthought:
Whenever they are finally sent into combat, the pucker for the crews of those VPKs or T-14s has got to be intense; even the densest Russian will know that once spotted, they'll be THE target of every Ukrainian with a drone or rocket (or mines) at their disposal, including HIMARS & Bayraktar.

Although the same can also be said for the Ukrainians driving Abrams, Leopards, and Bradleys; plus they know Russia would also send in rotary-wing gunships & CAS aircraft, regardless of potential loss rate if it bags them an Abrams or Leopard.

 

[Elämällä on väliä]

And from what I understand, production of their latest tech like the T-14 or SU-57

T-14 and T-15 was produced in not more than few dozen vehicles, Su-57 was never produced. Not a single serial. Only prototypes.

You don't really use IFVs for armor-hunting anyway.

Putins says' 'hold my bear'

I feel like I'm going to get Iraq and Yugoslavia flashbacks where Russia fanboys are going to insist that all this crap is just the lower tech versions of the super capable and superior to NATO tech wargear and the real T-72s/T-90s/T-14s and other Russian super weapons are just being kept in reserve.

Funfact: ruzzkie equipment and personel managment is crazy and shitty. They even make crews full of mobiks on T-90 units, then regular army is operating on T-72 or other shit.

 

[Kept Ya Waiting Huh]

Does anyone know why the small town of Bahkmut is such a hot zone right now? I don't see any tactical use of it, but i might just be stupid.

 

[draggs]

"Mom, I want BMPT Terminator"
"We have BMPT Terminator at home"
BMPT Terminator at home:

How come white phosphorous is still used? Isn't it super fucking horrific and inhumane? I thought it was banned by international treaties, not that Russia cares for those.
Edit: Thermite? What for?

WP is used because it's effective as fuck at melting people holed up inside buildings and bunkers that regular high explosives just rearrange the rubble and don't kill everyone inside

That's why there's a loophole for using it in the laws of war, it's too useful. When they made the rule against using weapons that employ effects like those of WP they deliberately left a loophole a mile wide

 

[East_Clintwood]

How come white phosphorous is still used? Isn't it super fucking horrific and inhumane? I thought it was banned by international treaties, not that Russia cares for those.

WP in an of itself is not banned, but there are restrictions on it's (or any other incendiaries) use in and around civilian areas that Russia is almost certainly breaking.

Su-57 was never produced. Not a single serial. Only prototypes.

Nah there were a few serials produced. Naturally one already crashed, because of course it fucking did:

Russia's most advanced fighter jet suffers first crash - news agencies

One of Russia's Sukhoi Su-57 stealth fighter jets crashed on Tuesday in the Far East, Russian news agencies reported, the first accident of its kind involving what is the country's most advanced warplane.

www.reuters.com

 

[mindlessobserver]

Pretty sure the USA used White Phosphorus too from time to time. Of course we tend to not saturation bimb entire residential areas with it either. In fairness to Russia though any civilians who stuck around in Bakhmut knew what they were signing up for.