Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Secret Asshole]

Well, Bakhmut still holds and Prigozhin himself is saying the resistance is fierce and does not lack for ammo. If it does hold, and the AFU certainly have determination in spades, Russia will once again be left with an egg on its face, a pile of corpses and nothing to show for it, which makes it worth it for the Ukraine and its Washington sponsors.

The problem for Ukraine in Bakhmut is that the West urged them to pull out in January to make a better, more fortified line than a hell city that really at the time was not defensively relevant. Because you know, of the encirclement that is happening now (It wasn't at the time, don't blame me for time and shit).

Now, however, because of the sunk costs, losing it will be completely detrimental when before it might not have been so bad. Support for this boondoggle isn't eternal and so the Ukrainians need to prevent Russia from gains for as long as possible, because the more Russia gains, the less confidence there will be in supply this shit (and its pretty low to begin with).

Ok, I'm done with the "other thread" for a while. It's neck-deep in hypocrisy and idiotic virtue signaling that would rival Twitter and Reddit; it's not even funny or retarded funny anymore.

Bleeding hearts who care about civilians and children suffering in this war, totally ignoring or rejoicing in the shooting of towns in the DNR and LNR, white supremacists who are fanatical about the Urkaine-Jewish oligarchs who have made war between white Slavs, it is simply embarrassing.
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I'm kind of just frustrated because I'm not supportive of Russia, nor am I supportive of proxy wars. And there have been blatant disregard for geo-political realities of what being a proxy of America actually means, and actually thinking American government and American Corporations are separate entites (lol fucking no. America is fascistic in the classic sense, as in corporate and government power are in cahoots to achieve domestic and foreign policy goals and entrench power).

I mean, the idea that the United States would throw hundreds of billions at your country in a military conflict and let you have any self determination or government is a fucking joke. I mean, look at other recipients to our friendship and the friendship of our allies. Just ask how those countries where French 'invests' how its going, losing 50% of their GDP and being forced to use an essentially useless currency that is the equivalent of corporate script. That's the fate of Western proxy countries.

 

[Yak-130 Mitten]

"Z" being banned in germany is about as real as german and austrian IPs being blocked from accessing kiwifarms.

Just imagine this conversation. "Ja Hans, should we ban a letter that's a building block of a big number of german words? That can't go wrong!"

Poor Opel, guess they'd have to find a new logo.

 

[Stasi]

Hey whatever happened to all that clean gas bs?

Had to memory hole when it was revealed it was all just a scam for the US to sell the same Russian gas to retarder Europeans at a mark-up lmao

Original article (can't archive for some reason) Edit: archive went through
Possibly the funnies things about all of this is Europe is getting fucked in every hole without lube by the Americans and are just meekly accepting it

 

[Mr K Dilkington]

Don't see these on English language web much though, probably because vids of tanks blowing up or whatever are more interesting to most people.

Because that doesn't fit the wests current narrative that Ukraines eternal and uncorruptable democracy provided everything its citizens ever wished for and that the ruzzians are there to simply destroy everything standing and kill or kidnap anyone that stands in thier path.

 

[Sister Miriam Godwinson]

Support for this boondoggle isn't eternal and so the Ukrainians need to prevent Russia from gains for as long as possible, because the more Russia gains, the less confidence there will be in supply this shit (and its pretty low to begin with).

I understand where you are coming from, but the shrill cries of "We will support Ukraine until Russia is defeated", "As long as it takes" and "Have another 100 billion dollars" from Washington only intensify as time goes by. And they are the ones calling the shots, not the increasingly nervous Sulky Liver Sausage & Co. in Europe.

The cost of one year of Ukraine already surpassed the cost of ten years in Afghanistan but the US gravy train has no brakes.

 

[Blewberry Nausea]

Had to memory hole when it was revealed it was all just a scam for the US to sell the same Russian gas to retarder Europeans at a mark-up lmao
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Original article (can't archive for some reason) Edit: archive went through
Possibly the funnies things about all of this is Europe is getting fucked in every hole without lube by the Americans and are just meekly accepting it

But it says CLEAN AND NATURAL THAT MEANS GOOD IN GOY MIND!!!

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

>yet another "conspiracy theory" being proven correct

 

[Badungus Kabungus]

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>yet another "conspiracy theory" being proven correct
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That just seems like the Americans doing damage control and trying to pass the blame for blowing up NS to Ukraine after the Hersh article.

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

That just seems like the Americans doing damage control and trying to pass the blame for blowing up NS to Ukraine after the Hersh article.

That's what I meant. It's so obvious we did it. By trying to pass the blame onto a "pro-Ukranian group", they've all but confirmed it.

 

[kuuu]

>pro-ukrainian group
so.. the US?

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/07/us/politics/nord-stream-pipeline-sabotage-ukraine.html

 

[White_N]

View attachment 4721650
>yet another "conspiracy theory" being proven correct
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How a country without a navy managed to commit sabotage in the middle of NATO waters unnoticed really makes you think.

 

[borsabil]

View attachment 4721650
>yet another "conspiracy theory" being proven correct
View attachment 4721665

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/07/us/politics/nord-stream-pipeline-sabotage-ukraine.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20230307&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=86262448&segment_id=127114&user_id=829d7f5af2c92dbe2f7402b7b36c05d4

https://archive.md/hFnh4

U.S. officials said there was much they did not know about the perpetrators and their affiliations. The review of newly collected intelligence suggests they were opponents of President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, but does not specify the members of the group, or who directed or paid for the operation. U.S. officials declined to disclose the nature of the intelligence, how it was obtained or any details of the strength of the evidence it contains. They have said that there are no firm conclusions about it, leaving open the possibility that the operation might have been conducted off the books by a proxy force with connections to the Ukrainian government or its security services.

The story is ridiculous of course. Takeaways the US is now being forced to respond to the Hersh story, big focus in the piece on Germany. Second it was published in the New York Times, dead giveaway.

 

[Tom Nook's Gloryhole]

So realistically, how do you think the media would prepare us for a Ukraine loss/surrender after months/(years by the time it's over) of talking up how Russia is two weeks away from total military and societal collapse? Even with Bakhmut surrounded the media is completely filled with "Wagner troops about to get smoked/run out of ammo" instead of giving a single drop of grounded reality.

Go check a /r/worldnews post about Russia and you'll see how pozzed it really is. Not only is Russia on the verge of collapse but they should give up everything AND pay reparations AND cede some land to Ukraine. Slava Ukraine etc. I know it's mostly bots and all that but when every single media source is explaining how much Ukraine is winning it creates the illusion that anything pro-Russia or grounded in reality is just fake news that should be discarded. I genuinely don't know how they're going to memory hole Ukraine.

 

[White_N]

So realistically, how do you think the media would prepare us for a Ukraine loss/surrender after months/(years by the time it's over) of talking up how Russia is two weeks away from total military and societal collapse? Even with Bakhmut surrounded the media is completely filled with "Wagner troops about to get smoked/run out of ammo" instead of giving a single drop of grounded reality.

Putin could have entered Kiev in person yesterday, the propaganda pieces would still be talking about how the military complex government achieved geo-political goals, what were those goals you ask? it doesn't matter.

As for Bakhmut in a parallel reality the Ukrainians have kda 5 to 1 against the stupid Russians and Bakhmut is a genius trap against shovel lovers, and it's being presented seriously.

 

[kuuu]

So realistically, how do you think the media would prepare us for a Ukraine loss/surrender after months/(years by the time it's over) of talking up how Russia is two weeks away from total military and societal collapse? Even with Bakhmut surrounded the media is completely filled with "Wagner troops about to get smoked/run out of ammo" instead of giving a single drop of grounded reality.

Go check a /r/worldnews post about Russia and you'll see how pozzed it really is. Not only is Russia on the verge of collapse but they should give up everything AND pay reparations AND cede some land to Ukraine. Slava Ukraine etc. I know it's mostly bots and all that but when every single media source is explaining how much Ukraine is winning it creates the illusion that anything pro-Russia or grounded in reality is just fake news that should be discarded. I genuinely don't know how they're going to memory hole Ukraine.

"Here is why letting ruzzians take devastated land is a good thing"
"SMO 2022: ruzzian art of losing by utilizing meat wave tactics that slowly had grind AFU down into the ground"
"Lwöw was to become capital of Ukraine sooner or later: historical evidence"
"Russian occupied Odessa: New transit opportunities for Moldova"

On a serious note, no point talking about this until LDPR is completely liberated. It's still far off.

 

[Sister Miriam Godwinson]

So realistically, how do you think the media would prepare us for a Ukraine loss/surrender after months/(years by the time it's over) of talking up how Russia is two weeks away from total military and societal collapse? Even with Bakhmut surrounded the media is completely filled with "Wagner troops about to get smoked/run out of ammo" instead of giving a single drop of grounded reality.

Go check a /r/worldnews post about Russia and you'll see how pozzed it really is. Not only is Russia on the verge of collapse but they should give up everything AND pay reparations AND cede some land to Ukraine. Slava Ukraine etc. I know it's mostly bots and all that but when every single media source is explaining how much Ukraine is winning it creates the illusion that anything pro-Russia or grounded in reality is just fake news that should be discarded. I genuinely don't know how they're going to memory hole Ukraine.

Here is a Ukrainian newspaper dated April 19, 1945. It is explaining how Hitler can still win.



P. S. r/worldnews should be renamed to r/shitonrussia, because 95% posts there do nothing except that.

 

[Romeo]

The Vuhledar Offensive - an Ukrainian Victory over Russia - an Overview​

If you ever seen pictures and videos of destroyed tanks and BMPs back in January/February, it's most likely attributed to the failed Russian assault on Vuhledar. History Legends (Alex) has made a video (already in the thread here) on the offensive from a tactical perspective, so I made a summary of what has happened and why the Russians has failed for those who lurk the thread or people who don't want to watch the video (so it's pretty much late if you have already watched it).

Background​

• Vuhledar is a town around 55 km southwest of Donetsk and around 130 km southwest of Bakhmut. It is a town of fortified high-rise commie-blocks, whose local economy is supplied by coal mines north-east of the city if you follow the main road. There is only one road that supplies Vuhledar from the east.
• Russian intelligence has suggested that 1,500 AFU mechanized infantry are garrisoned in the city.
• The Russians have concentrated a force of 20,000 men composed of brigades composing of marines, motorized infantry, artillerymen, militia, reserves from Tatarstan, and special forces.
• The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) ditched their signature battalion tactical groups (BTG) since mobilization in exchange of the traditional brigade system, composed of numerous infantrymen, which Ukraine uses. On paper, Alex mentions it is a good system, but in action, shit hits the fan pretty quick.
• The commander is Lieutenant General Rustam Muradov, who rose up through the ranks due to his military education, but has limited experience in the battlefield, being an advisor in the Syrian Civil War and overlooking a peacekeeping force in Nagorno-Karabakh.

Battle​

First Assault​

• Russian artillery has striked positions in Vuhledar, including the use of the TOS-1 flamethrower artillery system.
• Russian marines have launched an assault in the dacha area between Russian-held Mykilske and Pavlivka from the direction of Mykilske. They then launched an assault into the northern dacha area adjacent to Vuhledar to take a gas station and successfully captured it with the assistance of BMPs. The BMPs later withdrew to pick up more men to reinforce the marines.

Second Assault​

• Russian marines then launched an assault into Vuhledar itself, following tactics that were used by Wagner in Bakhmut.
• Alex mentioned that this is a huge blunder, as marines could have headed north-east to take the coal mines to fully-control the road, and cut off Vuhledar from the rest of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU).
• Ukrainians from the rooftops of the commie-blocks have line-of-sight over the marines in the dacha area, and the marines came under accurate heavy artillery fire.
• Returning BMPs from the southern dacha are destroyed by accurate artillery fire, and reinforcements are unable to reach the marines in the northern dacha, rendering the marines stuck.
• The Russia command neglected to take the northern-half of Pavlivka back in 2022, and the Russian forces failed to take the western flank of Vuhledar during the offensive.
• An attempt to create an even larger western flank of Vuhledar failed when the Russians failed to take Zolota Nyva and Prechystivka, two towns west of Pavlivka.

Ukrainian Counter-offensive​

• The AFU, now on high-alert, sent in their reserves near Vuhledar and reinforcements from Lyman to Vuhledar, pushing out the marines in the northern dacha, and recapturing all dachas and gains the Russians has made since the start of the offensive.
• According to Alex, Muradov failed to consider the existence of reserves and reinforcements that the garrison at Vuhledar will gain.
• The Russians have mounted a counter-offensive that has little success in capturing the dacha between Mykilske and Pavlivka.

Third and Final Assault​

• With momentum lost, Muradov and the Russian Command in panic-mode is extremely desperate for a successful operation in Vuhledar.
• They planned to launch an offensive to take the heights that overlook the mines in the east with tanks and BMPs, so that they could launch a large flanking maneuver of Vuhledar in the east.
• Why they haven't done it before is a mystery (realistically incompetence).
• A large armored column of Russian tanks (including ones with mine-rollers) and BMPs in a clear-line of sight, reinforced with the volunteer reserve brigades from Tatarstan, funnily enough, ended up in a minefield. Recon and Command have misinformed them that their path is safe, and with bad information comes with disastrous results.
• These mines are seeded by American-made RAAMS, or mines that are planted by artillery.
• Russian BMPs and tanks started blowing up. Infantrymen and drivers of the tanks and BMPs think it's artillery, and scattered around, touching even more mines, forcing a hasty retreat. Most losses in that offensive was due to mines. Drones from Ukraine then attack stragglers with grenades.
• Ukrainian-operated drones have witnessed the entire operation without interference, giving information to the Ukrainians of the location and the actions of the column. This brought in criticism of Muradov and the Russian Command for not jamming and interfering these devices while the column was marching east.
• This is the list of losses as reported by the pro-Ukrainian New Voice of Ukraine.

Aftermath and Conclusion​

• Despite being shat on by the Russian public for his incompetency, Lieutenant General Muradov, to much of the public's surprise and chagrin, was promoted to colonel general.
• Unless this is some 6D chess move by Putin to move Muradov to more bureaucratic roles and away from commanding the frontline, the failed offensive is a direct indicator of the non-meritocratic structure of the Russian MoD and how it's failing them in comparison to Wagner Group in Bakhmut, which is meritocratic-based.
  • Sergei Shoigu, the current Minister of Defense, has no prior military experience.
• There is a potential Russian operational defeat in the Invasion, in which the most realistic failure is when Russia fails to capitalize on gains over Ukraine since Ukraine still falls when they operationally win or lose.
  • They had lost a lot of armor and men, even though they are from our point of view significantly less than the Ukrainian side, for gains that have still haven't occupied an entire oblast.
  • This will happen IF the MoD keeps fucking over meritocratic-based groups and individuals like Wagner (if the debacle is not a ruse) because of their retarded jealousy, and keep employing "military-educated" generals such as Muradov in the frontlines, and not meritocratic-based generals like Sergey Surovikin.
    • Surovikin has gained most of his experience in the battlefield than through military education, which is why a lot of Russians love Surovikin and Prigozhin.
    • I think they're both leading the Russian forces in Bakhmut due to Bakhmut being backed up by Russian paratroopers etc., in which Surovikin has command over.
    • Therefore, Surovikin is pretty much saving the MoD's asses and reputation by not leaving all the combat operations and successes to Wagner Group, which is humiliating to the MoD, hence their jealousy.
  • If the MoD decides to ditch Wagner and Prigozhin to be abandoned to the Ukrainians, the Russian Army loses their main carry.
  • Ukraine can capitalize on this and attack Russian gains since the start of the invasion.
  • The worst-case scenario of a Russian operational defeat will be returning to the lands of the status quo back at the start of the invasion, with Russians only occupying Mariupol due to fighting tooth-and-nail to take it over and renovate it.
  • Russia will then have pretty much deserve this operational defeat and I suspect that the entire military staff except Surovikin will be "retired."
• I suspect these problems in the Russian military can also occur in other Western militaries as well, and there has been a debacle due to retarded politics like the Wagner vs MoD fiasco (if it is not a ruse) inside the Ukrainian military as well.

Генерала Мурадова необходимо наградить высшим орденом Украины. (General Muradov must be awarded the highest order of Ukraine.) - YouTube commenter

Off-topic​

I have to disagree friend. Tanks still matter a lot, They still matter because they still able drive over anything but specialized anti-tank obstacles and the harshest terrain and resist or speed through all but the heaviest ambushes or fire. And have the fire power to take apart most obstacles while doing so. Simply, everything IFV's don't quite do on same level.

It's still is harder to stop tanks from getting wherever the fuck they want to go and fuck shit up than any other ground unit. When they are properly backed by mechanized infantry.

I heard that futility of attack helicopters are more profound thanks to the war. With MANPADs and SAMs being more advanced and unjammable, and the purpose of attack helicopters being replaced with drones, lighter helicopters, transport helicopters, and aircraft, attack helicopters are no longer feasible.

This is like watching Chris Chan give military analysis in more ways than one. He legit thinks Ukrainian forces in Siversk are going to pull a Sonichu and race to the south completely unopposed to complete what would be one of the most massive encirclements in history, this in spite of the fact that they'd have to pass through very heavily pro-Russian territories to do this, and in spite of the fact that Russia has massive reserve forces on standby right now. Also it amazes me that people forget that Russia does actually have an air force which they benched after they wiped out the Ukrainian air force. Even if this wasn't just some insane autismo-schizo cope, Russia would unbench that air force in response to this.

This fucker's skin gets more red as more videos are posted lmao.

View attachment 4720598
On the 5th of March, the commander of the separate reconnaissance battalion "Sparta" Guards Colonel Vladimir Zhoga, callsign “Vokha" was mortally wounded, providing a way out of Volnovakha for civilians.

View attachment 4720590
Russian President Vladimir Putin awarded the title of Hero of Russia to late Colonel Vladimir Zhoga, at the Kremlin in Moscow, Russia while meeting his father. https://t.me/heilukraine1959/3857

Finally the Russian Army has another competent commander, holy shit.

Offensive?

So with Wagner forcing the retreat of some of the AFUs best brigades, talks have begun on the subject of the Melitopol offensive. had this gone ahead as is it may well have broken through the shoddy units holding that front. but in the time between the rumblings of an attack and now. Wagner have detached about 2 battalions of their best troops to the area. and 2 entire combined arms armies have arrived. which means at minimum 30,000 extra men have arrived.

Facing them? a couple under stregth mech brigades and a couple TDBs oh and a single rifle battalion.

Without Wagner, I wouldn't be surprised if the Russian Army manages to fuck up like Vuhledar, as they do repeat mistakes. Seems like the 30,000 men would be mainly be directed by Wagner commanders, which will make them an effective fighting force that can defend against the supposed Melitopol Offensive and seize the rest of Zaporizhzhya Oblast.

 

[MrJokerRager]

Can't get any based beyond this.

yockeypuck (@yockeypuck@poa.st)

poa.st

Whenever I turn on Fox News for Tucker.

I keep seeing these adds about old holocaust survivors in Ukraine and decided to go on their site.

They run two sites.

saveukraineua.org





ifcj.org




I also decided to looked into how much backing did the Democrats and Republicans get from the military industrial complex.

Roughly a 50 50 split from the top dogs towards both parties during the rigged election of 2020.

Despite news headlines suggesting Republicans benefit from the industry, its both parties doing it.

And many in the defense industry are headed by people these days who would destroy the 2A while selling guns to filth and scum overseas.

Agribusiness | OpenSecrets

OpenSecrets.org issue profile for Agribusiness.

www.opensecrets.org

There is an article on the Lockheed Martin CEO calling for greater government involvement as well from the beginning of this year.

Can The Defense Industry Evolve In Today’s Disrupted World?



On a final note, decided to go to the main websites of the military industrial complex.

Lockheed Martin Corporation

At Lockheed Martin, our purpose is to ensure those we serve always stay ahead of ready. It's our identity, our culture, and our promise.

www.lockheedmartin.com

Most of STEM is filled with chinks and pajeeets these days, niggers are unicorns in that field.

Home

Northrop Grumman solves the toughest problems in space, aeronautics, defense and cyberspace. Our 95,000 employees are Defining Possible every day using science, technology and engineering to create and deliver advanced systems, products and services.

www.northropgrumman.com

I can see why they donated more to the Democrats since they love the Cackler of Keef.



Raytheon Technologies

Supporting that DIE.



No wonder why, they run by fatsos.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

Ten-year-old Fedor, who showed heroism during the attack of Ukrainian militants on the Bryansk region, was awarded the medal of the IC "For Valor and Courage".

Lord Of War

Ten-year-old Fedor, who showed heroism during the attack of Ukrainian militants on the Bryansk region, was awarded the medal of the IC "For Valor and Courage".

t.me

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

Throwing the holhols under the bus, are we? For shame, Deutschland. Not being a very good ally of Ukraine.