Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

Akran said:
There's a whole community dedicated to it, some ebay stuff is legit, others not. It's baby's first step into collecting. The cool stuff is with dedicated people actively "looting" corpses, especially the wagner stuff. Patches can be faked, want an authentic one? Here it is on a dead body, here's video of me taking it off. It's pretty wild man
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link me something for authentic looters, i don't care which side, i want to see what they get
 
Null said:
holy shit if you just ebay search for war trophy you see pages of random shit taken off dead bodies, ranging from used soviet porn mags to watches, technology is amazing

"Condition: pre-owned" lmfao
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Null I'm surpised you didn't know about this. People pay top dollar for war trophies. German paratrooper helmets from WW2 fetch over 2000 dollars for a intact model. There are helmets from the Iraqi Republican Guards that fetch similar prices. There are vendors from Poland selling this stuff for top dollar.
 
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Astro Galactic Megalul said:
Could very well be that they have simply started to ration ammunition and hoard what's left which results in wagnerites getting fuck all, which would be a significant development if true.
Pretty sure thus far they got everything they wanted from Putin, doubt it's caused by change of mood in MoD alone, I reckon it's something more substantial.

Also had this thought: It would stand to reason MoD would want to distance themselves from wagnerites as the list of their warcrimes grows. The whole point for their existence was to provide Russian government with plausible deniability, which is rendered moot when you have these assholes on the frontlines openly supplied by Russian MoD. It just serves as evidence that Wagner is doing their bidding, which is going to matter after all this is over. Prigozhin is really exposing them with his whining.
One thing is clear, at this point all pretenses are out the window. This charade of theirs is falling apart.
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You're right, I should have clarified:
When you talk shit about the regular army, humiliate them publicly, and otherwise piss off the power elite, don't be surprised - especially when ammo allotments are slashed - when your deliveries get help up and other units are unwilling to part with substantial portions of their allotments to support your operations. There is a reason you try to play nice with other commanders.

Astro Galactic Megalul said:
Because they don't. Your average conscript ends up spending most of their time with a broom and mop sweeping and cleaning barracks and adjacent territory for a year, and other shit of that sort. Some only get to shoot a few bullets once as a ritual before the oath. Otherwise guns are locked up.
You might get a chance going on patrols/guard duty. But they make sure that abuse victims aren't allowed anywhere near weapons, so going on a shooting spree can be a complicated matter. But they aren't always that thorough, and sometimes victims succeed in their revenge:
www.currenttime.tv

Срочник Шамсутдинов объяснил расстрел восьмерых сослуживцев тем, что ему не давали спать в течение длительного времени

Солдат-срочник Рамиль Шамсутдинов объяснил убийство восьми сослуживцев в воинской части в Забайкалье тем, что ему не давали спать в течение длительного времени. Об этом Шамсутдинов заявил, отвечая на вопрос своего адвоката, в ходе судебного процесса во Втором восточном окружном военном суде в...
www.currenttime.tv www.currenttime.tv

I can't even begin to understand what's wrong with these people. Where does all this come from? What the fuck?
Things like that make me desperately cling to the idea that karma is real, and all these ghouls will get what they deserve.
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I don't mean in Garrison - sure you can probably get your hands on a grenade but it'd be a russian one so what're the odds it'll actually work - I mean on the battlefield. Like the dudes talking about the Chechens snatching bootyholes. You've got a gun and access to explosives. Or just taking the opportunity in the chaos of war to Pop your Pimp
 
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Null said:
It's a shame there's not much silver. I could go for watches but it feels like bad juju to loot corpses outside of MMORPGs.
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There's tons of silver in scrap military electronics. The Tomahawk missile uses $250K in silver. I have no doubt people are pulling every fixture they can off every tank husk for scrap metals and PMs.
 
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Null said:
every time I look at the war map I see no changes but like 10 million bubbles around bakmut

i think after the war im going to go there and pick up something as a souvenir. maybe they can rebuild the roads with bones. that'd be pretty badass. a lot of tourists would go see the bone road of bakmut.
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Make a bouncy castle decorated with bones, bone rollercoasters, bone themed escape room called the Bone Zone. Bone based economy.
 
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Null said:
holy shit if you just ebay search for war trophy you see pages of random shit taken off dead bodies, ranging from used soviet porn mags to watches, technology is amazing

"Condition: pre-owned" lmfao
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A lot of this shit is fake as fuck, but there are some genuine articles if you know what to look for and are willing to dig through the dross to find the gems.
noif.jpgyoink.jpg
archive.is

TROPHY, KNIFE OF THE RUSSIAN SOLDIER, WAR UKRAINE 2022 | eBay

archived 7 Mar 2023 20:32:05 UTC
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www.ebay.com

TROPHY, KNIFE OF THE RUSSIAN SOLDIER, WAR UKRAINE 2022 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for TROPHY, KNIFE OF THE RUSSIAN SOLDIER, WAR UKRAINE 2022 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
 
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Looks like I was right (probably):

Pro-Ukrainian group responsible for Nordstream 1&2 sabotage:
"New intelligence reporting amounts to the first significant known lead about who was responsible for the attack on the Nord Stream pipelines that carried natural gas from Russia to Europe"
WASHINGTON — New intelligence reviewed by U.S. officials suggests that a pro-Ukrainian group carried out the attack on the Nord Stream pipelines last year, a step toward determining responsibility for an act of sabotage that has confounded investigators on both sides of the Atlantic for months.
U.S. officials said that they had no evidence President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine or his top lieutenants were involved in the operation, or that the perpetrators were acting at the direction of any Ukrainian government officials.
The brazen attack on the natural gas pipelines, which link Russia to Western Europe, fueled public speculation about who was to blame, from Moscow to Kyiv and London to Washington, and it has remained one of the most consequential unsolved mysteries of Russia’s year-old war in Ukraine.
Ukraine and its allies have been seen by some officials as having the most logical potential motive to attack the pipelines. They have opposed the project for years, calling it a national security threat because it would allow Russia to sell gas more easily to Europe. Ukrainian government and military intelligence officials say they had no role in the attack and do not know who carried it out.
U.S. officials said there was much they did not know about the perpetrators and their affiliations. The review of newly collected intelligence suggests they were opponents of President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, but does not specify the members of the group, or who directed or paid for the operation. U.S. officials declined to disclose the nature of the intelligence, how it was obtained or any details of the strength of the evidence it contains. They have said that there are no firm conclusions about it, leaving open the possibility that the operation might have been conducted off the books by a proxy force with connections to the Ukrainian government or its security services.
Some initial U.S. and European speculation centered on possible Russian culpability, especially given its prowess in undersea operations, though it is unclear what motivation the Kremlin would have in sabotaging the pipelines given that they have been an important source of revenue and a means for Moscow to exert influence over Europe. One estimate put the cost of repairing the pipelines starting at about $500 million. U.S. officials say they have not found any evidence of involvement by the Russian government in the attack.
Officials who have reviewed the intelligence said they believed the saboteurs were most likely Ukrainian or Russian nationals, or some combination of the two. U.S. officials said no American or British nationals were involved.
The pipelines were ripped apart by deep sea explosions in September, in what U.S. officials described at the time as an act of sabotage. European officials have publicly said they believe the operation that targeted Nord Stream was probably state sponsored, possibly because of the sophistication with which the perpetrators planted and detonated the explosives on the floor of the Baltic Sea without being detected. U.S. officials have not stated publicly that they believe the operation was sponsored by a state.
The explosives were most likely planted with the help of experienced divers who did not appear to be working for military or intelligence services, U.S. officials who have reviewed the new intelligence said. But it is possible that the perpetrators received specialized government training in the past.
Officials said there were still enormous gaps in what U.S. spy agencies and their European partners knew about what transpired. But officials said it might constitute the first significant lead to emerge from several closely guarded investigations, the conclusions of which could have profound implications for the coalition supporting Ukraine.
Any suggestion of Ukrainian involvement, whether direct or indirect, could upset the delicate relationship between Ukraine and Germany, souring support among a German public that has swallowed high energy prices in the name of solidarity.
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U.S. officials who have been briefed on the intelligence are divided about how much weight to put on the new information. All of them spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss classified intelligence and matters of sensitive diplomacy.
U.S. officials said the new intelligence reporting has increased their optimism that American spy agencies and their partners in Europe can find more information, which could allow them to reach a firm conclusion about the perpetrators. It is unclear how long that process will take. American officials recently discussed the intelligence with their European counterparts, who have taken the lead in investigating the attack.
A spokeswoman for the C.I.A. declined to comment. A spokesman for the White House’s National Security Council referred questions about the pipelines to the European authorities, who have been conducting their own investigations. Nord Stream 1 and Nord Stream 2, as the two pipelines are known, stretch 760 miles from the northwest coast of Russia to Lubmin in northeast Germany. The first cost more than $12 billion to build and was completed in 2011.
Nord Stream 2 cost slightly less than the first pipeline and was completed in 2021, over objections from officials in the United States, Britain, Poland and Ukraine, among others, who warned that it would increase German reliance on Russian gas. During a future diplomatic crisis between the West and Russia, these officials argued, Moscow could blackmail Berlin by threatening to curtail gas supplies, on which the Germans had depended heavily, especially during the winter months. (Germany has weaned itself off reliance on Russian gas over the past year.)
Early last year, President Biden, after meeting with Chancellor Olaf Scholz of Germany at the White House, said Mr. Putin’s decision about whether to attack Ukraine would determine the fate of Nord Stream 2. “If Russia invades, that means tanks and troops crossing the border of Ukraine again, then there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2,” Mr. Biden said. “We will bring an end to it.”
When asked exactly how that would be accomplished, Mr. Biden cryptically said, “I promise you we’ll be able to do it.”. A couple weeks later, Mr. Scholz announced that his government would block the Nord Stream 2 pipeline from becoming operational. Two days after that, Russia launched the much-anticipated invasion.
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Since the explosions along the pipelines in September, there has been rampant speculation about what transpired on the sea floor near the Danish island of Bornholm.
Poland and Ukraine immediately accused Russia of planting the explosives, but they offered no evidence.
Russia, in turn, accused Britain of carrying out the operation — also without evidence. Russia and Britain have denied any involvement in the explosions.
Last month, the investigative journalist Seymour Hersh published an article on the newsletter platform Substack concluding that the United States carried out the operation at the direction of Mr. Biden. In making his case, Mr. Hersh cited the president’s preinvasion threat to “bring an end” to Nord Stream 2, and similar statements by other senior U.S. officials.
U.S. officials say Mr. Biden and his top aides did not authorize a mission to destroy the Nord Stream pipelines, and they say there was no U.S. involvement. Any findings that put blame on Kyiv or Ukrainian proxies could prompt a backlash in Europe and make it harder for the West to maintain a united front in support of Ukraine.
U.S. officials and intelligence agencies acknowledge that they have limited visibility into Ukrainian decision-making.
Despite Ukraine’s deep dependence on the United States for military, intelligence and diplomatic support, Ukrainian officials are not always transparent with their American counterparts about their military operations, especially those against Russian targets behind enemy lines. Those operations have frustrated U.S. officials, who believe that they have not measurably improved Ukraine’s position on the battlefield, but have risked alienating European allies and widening the war.
The operations that have unnerved the United States included a strike in early August on Russia’s Saki Air Base on the western coast of Crimea, a truck bombing in October that destroyed part of the Kerch Strait Bridge, which links Russia to Crimea, and drone strikes in December aimed at Russian military bases in Ryazan and Engels, about 300 miles beyond the Ukrainian border.
But there have been other acts of sabotage and violence of more ambiguous provenance that U.S. intelligence agencies have had a harder time attributing to Ukrainian security services.
One of those was a car bomb near Moscow in August that killed Daria Dugina, the daughter of a prominent Russian nationalist.
Kyiv denied any involvement but U.S. intelligence agencies eventually came to believe that the killing was authorized by what officials called “elements” of the Ukrainian government. In response to the finding, the Biden administration privately rebuked the Ukrainians and warned them against taking similar actions.
The explosions that ruptured the Nord Stream pipelines took place five weeks after Ms. Dugina’s killing. After the Nord Stream operation, there was hushed speculation — and worry — in Washington that parts of the Ukrainian government might have been involved in that operation as well. The new intelligence provided no evidence so far of the Ukrainian government’s complicity in the attack on the pipelines, and U.S. officials say the Biden administration’s level of trust in Mr. Zelensky and his senior national security team has been steadily increasing.
Days after the explosion, Denmark, Sweden and Germany began their own separate investigations into the Nord Stream operation.
Intelligence and law enforcement agencies on both sides of the Atlantic have had difficulty obtaining concrete evidence about what happened on the sea floor in the hours, days and weeks before the explosions.
The pipelines themselves were not closely monitored, by either commercial or government sensors. Moreover, finding the vessel or vessels involved has been complicated by the fact that the explosions took place in a heavily trafficked area.
That said, investigators have many leads to pursue. According to a European lawmaker briefed late last year by his country’s main foreign intelligence service, investigators have been gathering information about an estimated 45 “ghost ships” whose location transponders were not on or were not working when they passed through the area, possibly to cloak their movements.
The lawmaker was also told that more than 1,000 pounds of “military grade” explosives were used by the perpetrators.
Spokespeople for the Danish government had no immediate comment. Spokespeople for the German government declined to comment.
Mats Ljungqvist, a senior prosecutor leading Sweden’s investigation, told The New York Times late last month that his country’s hunt for the perpetrators was continuing.
“It’s my job to find those who blew up Nord Stream. To help me, I have our country’s Security Service,” Mr. Ljungqvist said. “Do I think it was Russia that blew up Nord Stream? I never thought so. It’s not logical. But as in the case of a murder, you have to be open to all possibilities.”
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Copethreadians are slowly getting how good is going ruzzkie offensive. Conclusions are as always shit ('TWO MORE WEEKS').

Null said:
I could go for watches but it feels like bad juju to loot corpses outside of MMORPGs.
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How to tell you are from USA with more words that is needed. In case of civil war (real one, not shooting from distance to wild militia) they will be only few rules:

- obey commanders (the nearest one),
- plunder what you find - dead corpses, wreckage, buildings if belonging to enemy and commander didn't say 'no',
- if you can - have a good, big, aggresive and protective dog (german shepherd or something similar is best, pitbulls can also due the job but never tested). Don't worry about food for him (remeber that cadaver? it is meat, if fresh or barely fresh will be good for every good boy),
- hide your weapon (AR-15 can be a bit hard to hide).
 
Elder Beak Thing said:
It's old Soviet thinking once again. What worked in East Germany/Hungary/Poland/Czechslovakia/Baltics back in the 50's and 60's will work today...
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It doesn't work because people have understood its not just a choice of what boot stomps your face, there's a option where you face isn't being stomped by a boot.

mindlessobserver said:
Apparently, Ukraine is standing up 3 new Brigades to Siversk, Sloviansk and Chasiv Yar. Not reinforcements for existing units but an entirely separate divisional formation. At least this is if Pro-Ukraine rumor mongering is to be believed. If true, just a quick glance at the position of the Russian Troops around Bakhmut shows they are really exposed to a counter thurst, especially in the Krasna Hora/Soledar direction. The Bakhmut envelopment is essentially a massive Salient in the main Russian Line. The fact that it has been held in place by Bakhmuts defenders for a week now spells serious trouble for Russia. These sorts of envelopment maneuvers have to be completely QUICKLY for a damn good reason.
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I'd treat with a heavy ammount of salt, but we are supposed to start seeing the new 'NATO equipment' units round about now, waiting for muddin' season to end.
 
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Null said:
every time I look at the war map I see no changes but like 10 million bubbles around bakmut

i think after the war im going to go there and pick up something as a souvenir. maybe they can rebuild the roads with bones. that'd be pretty badass. a lot of tourists would go see the bone road of bakmut.
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Why stop there? The Mayor of Bakhmut should get himself a skull throne made out of Russian dead. Zelensky's throne can be made out of melted-down T-72 barrels.

For actual news:
https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-new...s-03-06-23/h_265c92682c57b8228fbbf082fb3b6888

NATO estimates Russia lost 5 times more soldiers in Bakhmut than Ukraine​

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Yeah, I wouldn't be abandoning Bakhmut so long as I could maintain a ratio like that. I know assaults are always bloody for the attacking team but 5x the losses is just ridiculous. WW1 in 2023 indeed.
 
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Snekposter said:
Why stop there? The Mayor of Bakhmut should get himself a skull throne made out of Russian dead. Zelensky's throne can be made out of melted-down T-72 barrels.

For actual news:
https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-new...s-03-06-23/h_265c92682c57b8228fbbf082fb3b6888

Yeah, I wouldn't be abandoning Bakhmut so long as I could maintain a ratio like that. I know assaults are always bloody for the attacking team but 5x the losses is just ridiculous. WW1 in 2023 indeed.
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This can't be true, over in the Zigger thread I was assured that entire brigades of UAF troops have been destroyed! It's NAWT TROOOO
 
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Snekposter said:
Why stop there? The Mayor of Bakhmut should get himself a skull throne made out of Russian dead. Zelensky's throne can be made out of melted-down T-72 barrels.

For actual news:
https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-new...s-03-06-23/h_265c92682c57b8228fbbf082fb3b6888

Yeah, I wouldn't be abandoning Bakhmut so long as I could maintain a ratio like that. I know assaults are always bloody for the attacking team but 5x the losses is just ridiculous. WW1 in 2023 indeed.
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Honestly a throne made from melted russian armor and weapons would be pretty fucking rad, I'd buy one
 
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Ghostse said:
I'd treat with a heavy ammount of salt, but we are supposed to start seeing the new 'NATO equipment' units round about now, waiting for muddin' season to end.
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This war would be over already if either side would just import some north Georgia Appalachian mountain squid mercenaries and their expertise with MUDDIN
 
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Another deployment map for map autists out there. Done by what seems to be a single autist based on press releases, so take that as you will. Shows more of Ukraine's units than the CSIS map, but seemingly less of Russia's.
militaryland.net

Deployment map of the War in Ukraine

Interactive map showing deployment of Ukrainian and Russian units during the War in Ukraine, and the current frontline.
militaryland.net
mindlessobserver said:
Apparently, Ukraine is standing up 3 new Brigades to Siversk, Sloviansk and Chasiv Yar. Not reinforcements for existing units but an entirely separate divisional formation. At least this is if Pro-Ukraine rumor mongering is to be believed. If true, just a quick glance at the position of the Russian Troops around Bakhmut shows they are really exposed to a counter thurst, especially in the Krasna Hora/Soledar direction.
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Building from this, I'd wonder if there's going to be a northern counter-thrust. There's a lot of armor and mechanized brigades just north of the Bakhmut pocket if the militaryland map is to be believed.
 
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