Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

This is getting as old as the russian doctrine and their equipment but...

Has Bakhmut fallen yet? Alot of pro-ruskies have been sure that Bakhmut will fall in a few days/a few weeks for months now, whats going on? Are the...pro-russians wrong? Cant be
Ah, yes! No worries, the explanation is that Bakhmut is a meatgrinder for the Ukrainians! The defending party, utilizing prepared fortifications, in an urban city, mostly dominated by infantry attacks, where no side has a superior artillery advantage....
gLorY tO rUsSiA!
 
Paraguay didn't implode? Wasn't conquered? Are you on crack? It was utterly destroyed, and remained a total basket case for decades. Its government was overthrown and it was occupied by its enemies for six years, not to mention that it lost large chunks of territory forever. And 10 000 deaths? Try 300 000. Both sides included, the war had casualties in the same tier as the US Civil War and Franco-Prussian War. And that's in absolute numbers. In relative numbers, it was one of the deadliest wars in history.
In war, countries always run out of political will before they run out of able-bodied men - The Paraguayan war being the exception to that rule.
new video from our powerpointing Aussie.
This time, he talks about the economy.
Nothing unexpected in there. In part because he's covered economics extensively in previous videos.
Had a call from my brother in Ukraine, it was pretty nice.
That's good to hear! I guess he's on a more quiet, heavily fortified part of the front?
 
Leopard 2 Tanks reported to be in Chasiv Yar west of Bakhmut. Wagner is saying several brigades of UAF troops have amassed behind the main front line and are preparing to attack.

This guy looks about as credible as the Russian analysts
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The whole reason why this battle goes so long already seems a bit fishy. "Bleed the Russians dry at low cost" - from my limited expertise the UAF is bleeding as hard as the Russkies in this area. So why hold on for this rather insignificant town?

The reason is that Russia is heavily shelling one insigificant town instead of half a dozen others. Even if losses are the same, and its seems like that's not the case, one UKA brigade is tying up a disproportionate number of Russian troops who are trying to take Bakhmut instead of trying to push Ukraine back from their main rail hubs in the North. Russia cannot leave the area around Bakhmut in Ukrainian hands and be able to secure their claimed provinces, so the longer Ukraine holds on the longer Russia is halted from doing much of anything else; Every shell fired at the ruins of Bakhmut is one that isn't be lobbed at apartment blocks elsewhere.

You are huffing some serious soviet-grade copium if you think China will lend-lease to Russia. The most you'll see is China working to slip some banned electronics over the border. Sort of like Russia is keeping back the best of its jets & armor in fear of embarrassing losses (well, more embarrassing losses) China isn't going to want to have domestic audiences see the smouldering wrecks of J-20s when the encounter real air defense and jingoist propaganda proves to be ineffective against real missiles.

Leopard 2 Tanks reported to be in Chasiv Yar west of Bakhmut. Wagner is saying several brigades of UAF troops have amassed behind the main front line and are preparing to attack.

I would want to see some confirmation from someone else.
My other thought is that if we're seeing troops massing at Bahkmut, that might mean we're getting ready to see push on Svatove.

He's the Yooknik version of a moderately grounded Vatnik. He is high as fucking balls on Ukraine copium and deep throating the Ukraine narrative, but his analysis is closer to reality and he does express some doubts when things seem to good to be true. But maybe that's just because the Ukraine propaganda being closer the reality than Russia's.
And (unless I'm mixing him up with another Yooknik) he does the annoying thing where even if nothing is going on he'll pad it out to 10 minutes for algorithm.


I disagree with that, that border was internationally recognized as being that of North Vietnam. The US pushed the envelope of what Russia and China would accept when they started their bombing of the North. If they had sent troops Russia and China would have intervened, as they said they would (and as China did in Korea).

If you read Max Hastings book 'Vietnam', it makes clear it was that the US completely misunderstood what was happening diplomatically. They assumed North Vietnam was a Russian proxy, in actuality the Russian government was begging the North to make a deal, and the Vietnamese were able to exert enormous pressure on the Soviets (and to a lesser extent the Chinese who the Vietnamese despised) to do what they wanted.

[...]
If the US invaded North Vietnam, and Brezhnev didn't immediately order a military response, he'd have been gone in hours.

All those US Carriers on Yankee Station, they wouldn't have been there long. Thailand and the Philippines would have noped out of a conflict very quickly so the US would have been stuck trying to fight off entire Chinese and NVA divisions, with Russian Air and Naval support.
Without turning this into vietnam chat (South Vietnam's government was fucked, US shouldn't have been there, 'victory' [korea] was possible but wasn't worth another 50,000 US casualties so the guys in charge would say they were capitalist not communist)

China didn't like Vietnam, and relations with the USSR were failing ever since the death of Mao's mancrush Stalin. The real concern was while vietnam could be isolated navally, Russia had overland access via China which probably wouldn't have borne out.

That said, while yes neither China nor the USSR would have accepted the complete take over of North Vietnam, but the US could have still curb stomped North Vietnam's troop concentrations. You can look at Sino-Vietnamese War and see what an acceptable curbing would have looked like: A punitive invasion to fully sack-tap the North, clearly denoted to the USSR and China as a non-permanent incursion. In the wake of Tet, given the North had violated the UN ceasefire line with offical uniformed NVA troops it would have stood to international diplomatic scrutiny as "they fucked around, they get to find out".
Bombing would haven't accomplished what boot could do: There was nothing worth bombing in the north after a few years of the airwar starting in earnest, and the PR to say nothing of intelligence.
But again, unless you had the politcal will to shut down the Ho Chi Minh trail, the most it'd have done is delayed the inevitable.

Which is why when the official NVA showed up and gave MACV something to destroy, they seized the opportunity.

Also, given Russian performance thus far, I think you're over estimating Russia's ability to project control over Yankee Station. Russian subs at the time were jokes.

It [ ... ]remained a total basket case for decades.
This is a change from the operations of the pre-invasion government... how?
I'm not saying the borders didn't move, but wars that would have seen the complete removal of a political entity from the map in Europe only saw war booty taken from the loser while the political establishment and bureaucracy remained in place.

He's also forgetting that Brazil was the third power to purchase a dreadnought battleship. Granted they had to buy it from the UK's yards due to a lack of native industry but even so they kicked off a dreadnought race that saw Argentina buy two dreadnoughts of their own from the USA.

Corrupt incompetent governments can still buy fancy toys. And it doesn't negate my point about internal threats being more of a concern than external ones: The only time those Brazilian battleships fired a shot in anger, it was against their own countrymen.
 
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Developers of drones can receive grants from Ukrainian Startup Fund – PM Shmyhal

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It's good that they're already trying to wean off Chinese-produced drones & rebuild their base of manufacturing before the missiles stop flying. And when the Russians finally do quit, Ukraine's drone industry could become huge; especially since it doesn't take huge factories & workforces to manufacturer them, and production lines can be set up nearly anywhere.
 
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Replying to @Trig.Point's #1834 post on Saturday, as an alternative to the Royal Armories, I can recommend the Combined Military Services Museum in Maldon Essex. Wall to wall guns to ogle, including lots of rare ones. Also, the Norfolk Tank Museum is a good one. They have their own version of Tankfest in August, with Guy Martin's replica Mk IV pootering about.
 
Leopard 2 Tanks reported to be in Chasiv Yar west of Bakhmut. Wagner is saying several brigades of UAF troops have amassed behind the main front line and are preparing to attack.

Why is he so red?
Also, I as a rule don't trust anyone who puts their stupid face in the thumbnail.
 
More rumor mongering of Ukrainian Troops massing west of Bakhmut. Apparently Wagner forces crashed into an entirely new unit of Ukrainian forces near the village of Minkivka and got routed. In response they have pulled a huge chunk of their forces away from Bakhmut into the sunflower fields northwest of the city.

 
Don't think Leopard 2s will be available on the battlefield until the start of May at the earliest. Maybe longer, can't remember if what I read said 1s or 2s will be ready then

Brigades are amassing near the Russian northern salient for a big hohol hoedown rumors have been getting made for at least a month

The southern one has been getting counterattacked for weeks which is why the Russians have stalled there near Ivaniske and south of the highway

I think the best place would be an attack in Zapo oblast when they have a good amount of Western tonks ready

Even if they attack at Bakhmut and beat the shit out of the northern salient the strategic gains wouldn't be as much as a successful attack trying to reach the coast
 
Why is he so red?
Also, I as a rule don't trust anyone who puts their stupid face in the thumbnail.
Red from embarassment as he's also a draft dodger. you would think a trained pilot could do more good for the war effort than making cope videos on you tube.
History legends just dropped another video
tl;dr - Wagner took the East side and are moving into the West from three directions. Ukr troops mostly walking out due to General Mud fucking wheeled retreat.
He also said there are three groups of troops fresh from the UK waiting to counter attack and test their new training.
It's really sad that Z-man left cannon fodder in there to buy time, but we won't see if that was sound or not until any attempted counter attack from better equiped and trained troops entering.
 
Without turning this into vietnam chat (South Vietnam's government was fucked, US shouldn't have been there, 'victory' [korea] was possible but wasn't worth another 50,000 US casualties so the guys in charge would say they were capitalist not communist)

China didn't like Vietnam, and relations with the USSR were failing ever since the death of Mao's mancrush Stalin. The real concern was while vietnam could be isolated navally, Russia had overland access via China which probably wouldn't have borne out.

That said, while yes neither China nor the USSR would have accepted the complete take over of North Vietnam, but the US could have still curb stomped North Vietnam's troop concentrations. You can look at Sino-Vietnamese War and see what an acceptable curbing would have looked like: A punitive invasion to fully sack-tap the North, clearly denoted to the USSR and China as a non-permanent incursion. In the wake of Tet, given the North had violated the UN ceasefire line with offical uniformed NVA troops it would have stood to international diplomatic scrutiny as "they fucked around, they get to find out".
Bombing would haven't accomplished what boot could do: There was nothing worth bombing in the north after a few years of the airwar starting in earnest, and the PR to say nothing of intelligence.
But again, unless you had the politcal will to shut down the Ho Chi Minh trail, the most it'd have done is delayed the inevitable.

Which is why when the official NVA showed up and gave MACV something to destroy, they seized the opportunity.

Also, given Russian performance thus far, I think you're over estimating Russia's ability to project control over Yankee Station. Russian subs at the time were jokes.
I know Mate, I got into this with Alogs on the Karl Kasarda thread, it's just a whole rabbit whole.

Max Hastings essentially says the end of the Vietnam war was in 1971 when NVA sappers in short shorts and carrying their body weight in PE4 got inside the perimeter of Firebase Mary Ann. There were no armed guards at the accommodation (contrary to general orders because the troops refused to man them) and the perimeter was manned by soldiers that were either sleeping or on drugs.

Myself I think it was over once B 57 crews in Thailand (as depicted in Hastings book) essentially mutinied rather than continuing doing ops over North Vietnam.

Land operations inside North Vietnam simply wasn't an option. Also the US was facilitating the south Vietnamese military in murdering anyone that might actually form a competent government.

The US despised Syngman Rhee, yet he was able to take South Korea and turn it into a functioning state. If you ever read US historians whinging about Rhee, just remember he's the reason the US decided not to let an actual leader control South Vietnam.
 
More rumor mongering of Ukrainian Troops massing west of Bakhmut. Apparently Wagner forces crashed into an entirely new unit of Ukrainian forces near the village of Minkivka and got routed. In response they have pulled a huge chunk of their forces away from Bakhmut into the sunflower fields northwest of the city.

You need to stop posting these dumbfucks. I admit I'm not following the territory changes closely, but I'm 90% certain none of these movements happened.
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History legends just dropped another video
tl;dr - Wagner took the East side and are moving into the West from three directions. Ukr troops mostly walking out due to General Mud fucking wheeled retreat.
He also said there are three groups of troops fresh from the UK waiting to counter attack and test their new training.
It's really sad that Z-man left cannon fodder in there to buy time, but we won't see if that was sound or not until any attempted counter attack from better equiped and trained troops entering.
HistoryLegends is similarly retarded but he's a kind of ambivalent retarded that hypes both sides. Mostly by overreacting to everything and using single Telegram videos as his sources.

Ukrainian troops retreating - probably not wrong, I don't think they're standing and fighting to the death at any rate.
Counterattack - this guy loves to predict counterattacks, I wouldn't put much faith in it.
Mud - maybe. I don't think anyone is taking vehicles near to the front with all the drones and mortars.

There's nothing to suggest that Bakhmut is a "trap" like his video title suggests. The comparisons to 12th century Mongolian tactics also make me cringe.
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You need to stop posting these dumbfucks. I admit I'm not following the territory changes closely, but I'm 90% certain none of these movements happened.
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HistoryLegends is similarly retarded but he's a kind of ambivalent retarded that hypes both sides. Mostly by overreacting to everything and using single Telegram videos as his sources.

Ukrainian troops retreating - probably not wrong, I don't think they're standing and fighting to the death at any rate.
Counterattack - this guy loves to predict counterattacks, I wouldn't put much faith in it.
Mud - maybe. I don't think anyone is taking vehicles near to the front with all the drones and mortars.

There's nothing to suggest that Bakhmut is a "trap" like his video title suggests. The comparisons to 12th century Mongolian tactics also make me cringe.
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Goddamn, they reall do all use the same template for their covershots huh? HL's nailbiting reaction looks super retarded, and Denys looks like the kind of guy you get over to repair your plumbing when he's giving the thumbs up.
 
I don't know if you're trolling or what, but I'll say this: after mid-march 2022, if you'd asked me how much longer I'd expect the Ukrainians to hold on in Mariupol, I'd have replied, "a week or 2 more, at most". And I'd have kept saying that for the next 9 weeks.
I'm just saying what the vatniks like Feline, captain autism and that third retard are too afraid to say, since they've been wrong on 90% of their claims
 
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