Argue about women or something

I mean that is an accurate stereotype though. In the sense that a fat neckbeard who watches a lot of anime is VERY likely to be single.
Well when it's fucked up underage anime porn yeah they'd be single no one fucks pedos just off them

Classier anime enthusiasts who aren't into that shit get nerd girls tho
I don't think you're allowed to do stoodies on how many single post wall women have cats or drink a lot of wine. So you can't exactly proove or deboonk that stereotype one way or the other. But the point it's making is that without having kids women's lives are pointless
People have their own wills and desires to fulfill their need for purpose if the only point to women is to have kids there's sperm donors for that

Same goes for men. If the only point is to churn out kids just go to a sperm bank and bugger off

None of this is explaining the value of a relationship, just having kids mind you. Throughout this thread I hear no mention of "the man will show affection or love" or any of that gushy stuff. It's all "you need to have kids now or you'll regret it" like some scammer trying to pull some urgent donation stunt.

Relationships or romance or gtfo
and they have no purpose. Maybe some small number of them are fine with that, good on them I guess. But pretending most people will ultimately be satisfied with that is coping.
The amount of people choosing to be single is growing and denying that more and more people are seeing a value in this is coping
Because marriage/kids/family is the biggest responsibility and most important thing that most people will ever have in their lives.
That does not sound like a fulfilling life. There are crack addicts who pop out kids into poverty and violence you saying that's more responsible than being mature, realising you do not have the capabilities to raise a human (which is a massive responsibility) and staying away from getting knocked up?
It takes tons of effort and represents a huge investment into the future of society,
The population of earth is 8 billion and climbing. I think society is just fine without every single person having a bub. If anything, most species who reach a certain population start evening out, it's time humanity did the same
and people who do it well typically accrue the social status that said accomplishment deserves.
Ah. I see. So that's why a human who has thoughts and dreams is reduced to value wise: a trophy

Trophy wife. Trophy kid

And yet, the crack addict still lives in the gutter...
If you refuse it I think most people would accept that's fully your right to do so. But a lot of people I think don't understand that this is basically choosing nihilism. It's the low effort easy path of least resistance. A sacrifice of longer term payoff for short term comfort. It will seem more rewarding in the short term as you are able to sleep in and have lots of free time to watch Netflix or whatever.
'kay thanks
But if you end up regretting it in the long term then it's probably too late to change it, especially if you're a woman.
Men too, to be fair. That spunk gets more infertile as years go on after all.

There's also women who regret getting pregnant. Post natal depression is a thing, orphans even more so. Maybe we should care about orphans than an alleged regret the guys here seem to he aiming for.
 
The amount of people choosing to be single is growing and denying that more and more people are seeing a value in this is coping

This is akin to saying "the amount of people choosing to be obese is growing and denying that more and more people are seeing a value in this is coping."

That does not sound like a fulfilling life. There are crack addicts who pop out kids into poverty and violence you saying that's more responsible than being mature, realising you do not have the capabilities to raise a human (which is a massive responsibility) and staying away from getting knocked up?

This is an interesting response because it shows that even an apparent anti-natalist such as yourself implicitly understands the responsibility that comes along with having children. If you remain single and childfree, living only for your own hedonism, then why not be a crack addict? Since you are technically only hurting yourself. But as soon as you have kids, you have a responsibility not to be a piece of shit anymore, and everyone knows it, even you.

I suppose we can agree that a literal crack addict who loses their children to CPS is more irresponsible than a crack addict who has enough self-control to avoid getting pregnant, but healthy parents who are able to raise a functional family remain far more respectable than both, and thus a far more worthy goal for people to aim for in their lives.

Ah. I see. So that's why a human who has thoughts and dreams is reduced to value wise: a trophy

Trophy wife. Trophy kid

This was a response to your statement implying that relationships are worthless and bring nothing of value to people's lives. When I point out that there are reasons why people may find them worthwhile, your response is to call those reasons shallow? Which one is it, are relationships worthless, or are people evil for pursuing their benefits?
 
This is akin to saying "the amount of people choosing to be obese is growing and denying that more and more people are seeing a value in this is coping."
Being obese is unhealthy. There is no risk to not having kids health wise. On the contrary, having a kid involves a massive health risk. If someone has underlying health issues genetic wise or just from rotten luck from say a viral infection, it's all the more reason to avoid having kids
This is an interesting response because it shows that even an apparent anti-natalist such as yourself implicitly understands the responsibility that comes along with having children. If you remain single and childfree, living only for your own hedonism, then why not be a crack addict? Since you are technically only hurting yourself. But as soon as you have kids, you have a responsibility not to be a piece of shit anymore, and everyone knows it, even you.
This implies that lack of kids = hedonism when there's those who volunteer or help others, their community or contribute to the science, art, architecture and so forth. It also implies that suddenly a lack of kids means lack of morals or a lack of interest in one's health. People want to live, and people remain dedicated to their morals/philosophy/religion. You don't need kids to remain loyal to that, or realise following the law is for your own benefit

Further, there are many parents who are immoral or hedonistic, so having kids does not make morals/lack if hedonism suddenly appear in a person's head. Nothing changes some many people
I suppose we can agree that a literal crack addict who loses their children to CPS is more irresponsible than a crack addict who has enough self-control to avoid getting pregnant, but healthy parents who are able to raise a functional family remain far more respectable than both, and thus a far more worthy goal for peopl
So once again the point of a relationship is kids so you can look respectable

I
This was a response to your statement implying that relationships are worthless and bring nothing of value to people's lives. When I point out that there are reasons why people may find them worthwhile, your response is to call those reasons shallow? Which one is it, are relationships worthless, or are people evil for pursuing their benefits?
Because it's parasitical, depending. If a guy gets his trophy wife what benefit is it for her, or the trophy kid? Remember a marriage is every day for the rest if your life. Every day, living with a man who does not love, does not care for you, all it is is for appearance. No one cares about your feelings, your wants, only that you have a blemish on your cheek. Every day. It is tiresome just to look at it. This is not a beneficial relationship and does not seem worth it. This situation is why marriages break down.because what happens when someone comes around that the man or woman feels that they do love? What if the man contributes nithing to relationship and us nothing but a dead weight?

If it's all for looking for achievement points just be/ buy a sperm donor. At least it doesn't involve wrecking a mans/woman's heart or life
 
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Because it's parasitical, depending. If a guy gets his trophy wife what benefit is it for her, or the trophy kid? Remember a marriage is every day for the rest if your life. Every day, living with a man who does not love, does not care for you, all it is is for appearance. No one cares about your feelings, your wants, only that you have a blemish on your cheek. Every day. It is tiresome just to look at it. This is not a beneficial relationship and does not seem worth it. This situation is why marriages break down.because what happens when someone comes around that the man or woman feels that they do love? What if the man contributes nithing to relationship and us nothing but a dead weight?

Your views on this really seem pathological, if you are legitimately unable to conceptualize marriage in any terms other than some kind of soulless corporate contract, and actually can't understand how or why people benefit from it. Though it seems more like spite than true ignorance. I think at this point I'm more curious about what happened to you personally to make you this way.
 
Because it's parasitical, depending. If a guy gets his trophy wife what benefit is it for her, or the trophy kid? Remember a marriage is every day for the rest if your life. Every day, living with a man who does not love, does not care for you, all it is is for appearance. No one cares about your feelings, your wants, only that you have a blemish on your cheek. Every day. It is tiresome just to look at it. This is not a beneficial relationship and does not seem worth it. This situation is why marriages break down.because what happens when someone comes around that the man or woman feels that they do love? What if the man contributes nithing to relationship and us nothing but a dead weight?
Yeah to be fair Gangwee is terrible at selling the idea of relationships, because he's a bit of a tard and politisperg.

Biologically a good reason to have relationships is because non-pair bonded members of monogamous species exhibit heightened stress response. They're much more susceptible to addiction (and remember this manifests in non-humans as well), males exhibit higher testosterone levels but also higher immune response and inflammation levels meaning they're going to be angrier but will be sicker in the long run. Females exhibit especially hightened stress in response to instances of social conflict.

In general the idea with pair bonding, aside from reproduction, is that it provides a buffer against social and environmental threats. Like in prairie voles, if they shock the female vole and she vocalizes distress the male vole will naturally go to her and engage in comforting acts.
An individual can afford to be less hypervigilant by having the safety of a partner; the "In sickness and in health" part of marriage is very important.

People who are in preference-matched couples live longer, get sick less, and in general exhibit less stress than people who are single, especially if socially isolated.


The problem isn't with relationships, it's that we live in an absolutely fucked situation that's almost perfectly engineered to make pairing up and progressing as a couple as difficult, stressful, costly, and generally unappealing as possible, and which encourages the formation of unstable, shallow, and emotionally unhealthy relationships.

Your views on this really seem pathological, if you are legitimately unable to conceptualize marriage in any terms other than some kind of soulless corporate contract, and actually can't understand how or why people benefit from it. Though it seems more like spite than true ignorance. I think at this point I'm more curious about what happened to you personally to make you this way.
I think a lot of these types are just lonely women who are trying to cope by telling themselves it's better this way.

If tomorrow some handsome and friendly guy moved in next door to them, they'd abandon their "Who needs relationships" thing in a heartbeat.
 
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Your views on this really seem pathological, if you are legitimately unable to conceptualize marriage in any terms other than some kind of soulless corporate contract, and actually can't understand how or why people benefit from it
I'm following the logic of people here through. A cold soulless contract is indeed what it seems to be portrayed here. No one brings up a marriage reason as that they love someone, that they actively enjoy x persons company and want to spend the rest of their life with them. At which point I ask if that's not involved, why get married? All it seems to be is out of a fear, our of trying to impress others. Not good reasons to do... Anything, really. Particularly not something you are supposed to dedicate the rest of your life to.

. Though it seems more like spite than true ignorance. I think at this point I'm more curious about what happened to you personally to make you this way.
Tempting as it is to bring up history this is kiwifarms and the internet is not a place to trust anybody. But tl:dr, it is less spite more than avoidance. I mentioned it before itt. Some people don't handle company well. Some don't hold affection well. But that's okay... so long as a person doesn't rope another into a loveless relationship (or abusive relationship) involuntarily. It is cruel, isn't it?

I have doubts any one arguing that "having kids is all women are good for" comes from a loving caring man, and it's high time they look at their logic in the face: it's soulless, cold.
 
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I think a lot of these types are just lonely women who are trying to cope by telling themselves it's better this way.

If tomorrow some handsome and friendly guy moved in next door to them, they'd abandon their "Who needs relationships" thing in a heartbeat.

IME those types tend to be turbo feminist, man hating, etc. This person seems to be more just misanthropic in general. I don't know, it just feels like a fairly unique flavor of femoid coping.

I'm following the logic of people here through. A cold soulless contract is indeed what it seems to be portrayed here. No one brings up a marriage reason as that they love someone, that they actively enjoy x persons company and want to spend the rest of their life with them. At which point I ask if that's not involved, why get married? All it seems to be is out of a fear, our of trying to impress others. Not good reasons to do... Anything, really. Particularly not something you are supposed to dedicate the rest of your life to.

The fact that you want people to actually spell out for you "yes of course you should actively enjoy the company of the person you marry" is the sort of behavior that indicates spitefulness. You aren't genuinely curious about these topics, instead you've made up your mind that human pair bonding is somehow evil and everyone who thinks otherwise must be wrong. You seem more interested in yelling at people who don't share your hangups rather than actually wanting to understand what people see in marriage. It's truly bizarre.

Anyways. Yes, because you are playing willfully ignorant, of course you should actively enjoy the company of the person you marry. That is presumably one big reason why you marry that particular individual and not one of the many others that you might meet/befriend/date/etc. And determining that you are compatible with that person and so forth and so on is the whole purpose of the dating process, and all of that good stuff. This is like, really really basic, ground level stuff, that even most children would be aware of. So that's probably why people in the thread aren't spelling it out for you, because they're giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming that you have this level of common knowledge on the subject.

At the same time, any remotely sensible person will tell you that marriage also involves work and sacrifice, because real life is not a romantic comedy. Most things worth doing in life involve some degree of difficulty. Relationships are no exception. If you refuse to ever do anything that might possibly require effort or impose temporary discomfort, your paths in life are going to be very limited indeed.

I have doubts any one arguing that "having kids is all women are good for" comes from a loving caring man, and it's high time they look at their logic in the face: it's soulless, cold.

This is another statement indicative of your attitude. My point is that having children (and raising them in a healthy way--since you are determined to play the idiot) is the most fulfilling thing that the vast, overwhelming majority of women will be able to do with their lives. Women are not broadly satisfied because of their "careers," or because of how much they gave to charity, or because of anything else that you can come up with. As another poster has helpfully pointed out, this goes right down to biology and evolution. It is an objective observation of human preferences.

Trying to turn that into a misogynist stereotype is really quite nasty and suggests deep dysfunction. I don't doubt that there is some small, strange portion of women who are not suited to even try for motherhood, which may include you, but these people are outliers, not the norm. The fact that you personally are an exception to a norm does not mean that the norm isn't still the norm i.e. the normal situation that applies to the large majority of humans.
 
I'm not a fan of people who tell me (or others) that I should sacrifice personal happiness for the sake of the collective, no matter in what context.

There is a degree of sacrifice for the collective as a requirement for society to function or even simply exist.

There's an argument to be made regarding how much sacrifice should be made, but if you want to argue that making any sacrifice is too much: I hope the sources of your happiness don't involve the product of anyone else's labour.
 
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There is a degree of sacrifice for the collective as a requirement for society to function or even simply exist.
In this context - arranging entire personal life (putting someone who doesn't want to be in a relationship into one for the sake of the collective).

I hope the sources of your happiness don't involve the product of anyone else's labour.
Of course it does and I acknowledge that I'll have to pay for it with fruits of my own labor (or if I'm lucky and reckless - with fruits of my ancestor's labor). If someone is trying to organize my personal life, I see no difference between what he's trying to do and someone telling me that I'll own nothing, eat bugs and be happy.
 
The fact that you want people to actually spell out for you "yes of course you should actively enjoy the company of the person you marry" is the sort of behavior that indicates spitefulness
This is the obvious fact that I have been trying to spell out before you joined in
You aren't genuinely curious about these topics, instead you've made up your mind that human pair bonding is somehow evil and everyone who thinks otherwise must be wrong. You seem more interested in yelling at people who don't share your hangups rather than actually wanting to understand what people see in marriage. It's truly bizarre
Not evil. Did I say marriage in itself is wrong? No, I'm saying marriage isn't for everybody. This is what I am trying to convey.
Anyways. Yes, because you are playing willfully ignorant, of course you should actively enjoy the company of the person you marry. That is presumably one big reason why you marry that particular individual and not one of the many others that you might meet/befriend/date/etc. And determining that you are compatible with that person and so forth and so on is the whole purpose of the dating process, and all of that good stuff.
Bingo
This is like, really really basic, ground level stuff, that even most children would be aware of. So that's probably why people in the thread aren't spelling it out for you, because they're giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming that you have this level of common knowledge on the subject.
It is basic stuff. And people here don't get it

At the same time, any remotely sensible person will tell you that marriage also involves work and sacrifice, because real life is not a romantic comedy. Most things worth doing in life involve some degree of difficulty. Relationships are no exception. If you refuse to ever do anything that might possibly require effort or impose temporary discomfort, your paths in life are going to be very limited indeed.
Yes, work and sacrifice. Not something you trap or coerce someone into. Which is what people here want to do. Not the masses, the people here.
This is another statement indicative of your attitude. My point is that having children (and raising them in a healthy way--since you are determined to play the idiot) is the most fulfilling thing that the vast, overwhelming majority of women will be able to do with their lives. Women are not broadly satisfied because of their "careers," or because of how much they gave to charity, or because of anything else that you can come up with. As another poster has helpfully pointed out, this goes right down to biology and evolution. It is an objective observation of human preferences.
And yet more and more people are choosing not to get married, weren't people already complaining here about "how awful, the family is on the decline, look at these stats! Society is ending now! Get rid of women's suffrage and other rights pronto! "

No, not the masses. The people here. You're taking me telling psychos here to piss off personally. You jumped in getting all excited that you found some man hating rad fem who thinks every marriage is an abomination. No.

Trying to turn that into a misogynist stereotype is really quite nasty and suggests deep dysfunction. I don't doubt that there is some small, strange portion of women who are not suited to even try for motherhood, which may include you, but these people are outliers, not the norm. The fact that you personally are an exception to a norm does not mean that the norm isn't still the norm i.e. the normal situation that applies to the large majority of humans.
Bingo. Not good for motherhood. And since you want to take the other dudes side and think every woman should be brought back to being sahm en masse regardless of their ability to be a mum, that's kind of messed up

Leave people who aren't meant for married life alone. Stop pushing people into it "for the betterment of society", don't peer pressure. There are folk who aren't cut out for it at all and the less people push them into making a mistake that will just wreck lives the better.
 
Yes, work and sacrifice. Not something you trap or coerce someone into. Which is what people here want to do. Not the masses, the people here.

Who in this thread has advocated trapping or coercing people into marriage against their will? Out of curiosity.
 
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Who in this thread has advocated trapping or coercing people into marriage against their will? Out of curiosity.
Figured that 870 guy was:

Society is fine as it is at the moment, sans the odd creep who thinks women shouldn't work and be stuck in the house.

I don't see the difference between them, both are work, either you are working on homemaking or you are working a job you likely hate.
 
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