Pokémon (Not-So) Griefing Thread - Scarlet and Violet Released with 10 Million Copies in First 3 Days in Buggy States

[Anonitolia]

unrelated update on the pmdg thread
there is now a castration fantasy among its written works

 

[Disc]

Or Game Freak could actually make an effort to balance their competitive video game like a normal competitive video game. Instead of limiting player's options and being lazy as fuck about it in the process

...

This is a pretty dumb argument, for a lot of reasons.

First, I think these reduced rosters are more comparable to the TCG space than "normal" competitive games. You have an upper limit of pieces in play, some get cycled out but may come back in at any point, and each new gen - comparable to a new "season" - introduces a new set of pieces and it's own unique mechanics. I think I could make a pretty good case that Pokémon, being turn-based strategy, decided it was better to use the tcg model than "normal" competitive games, but I'm really digressing at this point.

I guess in this context, Smogon would be like unofficial Wild tournaments?

Secondly, you say that things like "balance" and "reduce the roster" are mutually exclusive in normal competitive games. But sometimes, something's just fucked and you've gotta remove it to make it work. The classic example is the current king of the moba hill, League of Legends, and Yuumi, a character who's design concept is literally "Healer who you literally can't shoot first because she tethers to an ally and is untargetable".

The only way they were able to make her stop being an insta-ban in the pickban phase is to nerf her into oblivion, functionally removing the character. They've recently tried to rework her into viability, and now people think she's even worse, partially because she's still a healer you can't shoot first.

Then, the other big alternative for competitive games are, what? Fighters? Their rosters are all over the place. Ideally, they increase their total roster size each game, but plenty remove characters whether they have new slot-fillers or not, or swap out mechanics for a game or two. Smash Ultimate using "Everyone is here" as a tagline is an indicator in itself that doing that is an exception, not a rule. A smattering of RTS? Again, some things are just removed necessarily for balance.

Every other competitive scene either has had instances where they've removed characters or mechanics, suffers for not doing as such, or hasn't been around long enough for such a thing to be necessary.

Come on man, if you're gonna make an argument at least demonstrate a basic knowledge of any game that isn't Pokémon.

 

[PipTheAlchemist]

But sometimes, something's just fucked and you've gotta remove it to make it work.

If a character is too "fucked" to be in a game, then the game devs should un-fuck it up via nerfs or a rework
You give the example of Yuumi as a character too OP to be balanced. The reason why she's OP is because she's unkillable. At least just going off your word (I've never played LoL). So the obvious solution would be to nerf Yuumi's passive ability or make her shittier in other ways
Also, I'd like for you to give me an example of a Pokemon too unsalvagably overpowered to be balanced in any way or nerfed into no longer being so overpowered

As for the fighting game example, Pokemon was basically the Smash Bros Ultimate of RPG's for a while. Ever since Generation 3, you've been able to obtain every Pokemon in every game from generations 3 - 7. You could transfer your Sceptile from Pokemon Ruby and use that very same Sceptile in Ultra Moon over ten years later. White it's been a while since I've been keeping-up with the SSBU meta, the main complaints I always hear from the competitive community of that game were DLC characters being too overpowered. Something which isn't a roster size issue, but moreso an issue of Nintendo using a cheap assholish way to encourage players to buy their DLC
Sure, Gen 1 and 2 Pokemon were locked to their specific generations, but this was due to hardware issues. While you couldn't transfer your Gen 2 mons over to Gen 3, at least all the Pokemon up to that point were still coded into the game. Meaning it wasn't a true Dexit, despite what some bootlickers like to claim. This modern-day Dexit bullshit is just plain laziness from Game Freak's part, and the same goes for the balancing of the Pokemon Game Freak does bother to code into the game

All Pokemon being in a metagame has never been an issue in the past. So why would it be an issue now of all times?

 

[Nauseated Courgi]

If a character is too "fucked" to be in a game, then the game devs should un-fuck it up via nerfs or a rework
You give the example of Yuumi as a character too OP to be balanced. The reason why she's OP is because she's unkillable. At least just going off your word (I've never played LoL). So the obvious solution would be to nerf Yuumi's passive ability or make her shittier in other ways
Also, I'd like for you to give me an example of a Pokemon too unsalvagably overpowered to be balanced in any way or nerfed into no longer being so overpowered

As for the fighting game example, Pokemon was basically the Smash Bros Ultimate of RPG's for a while. Ever since Generation 3, you've been able to obtain every Pokemon in every game from generations 3 - 7. You could transfer your Sceptile from Pokemon Ruby and use that very same Sceptile in Ultra Moon over ten years later. White it's been a while since I've been keeping-up with the SSBU meta, the main complaints I always hear from the competitive community of that game were DLC characters being too overpowered. Something which isn't a roster size issue, but moreso an issue of Nintendo using a cheap assholish way to encourage players to buy their DLC
Sure, Gen 1 and 2 Pokemon were locked to their specific generations, but this was due to hardware issues. While you couldn't transfer your Gen 2 mons over to Gen 3, at least all the Pokemon up to that point were still coded into the game. Meaning it wasn't a true Dexit, despite what some bootlickers like to claim. This modern-day Dexit bullshit is just plain laziness from Game Freak's part, and the same goes for the balancing of the Pokemon Game Freak does bother to code into the game

All Pokemon being in a metagame has never been an issue in the past. So why would it be an issue now of all times?

What makes it a problem now is the fact that Game Freak (or the higher ups in TPC) has been giving themselves less time to consider touching on the areas you mentioned. Dexit was likely a result of them crunching to make ends meet and the competitive scene suffering from power creep without ever getting any meaningful balancing is no doubt also a result of that release schedule.

 

[Anonitolia]

If a character is too "fucked" to be in a game, then the game devs should un-fuck it up via nerfs or a rework
You give the example of Yuumi as a character too OP to be balanced. The reason why she's OP is because she's unkillable. At least just going off your word (I've never played LoL). So the obvious solution would be to nerf Yuumi's passive ability or make her shittier in other ways
Also, I'd like for you to give me an example of a Pokemon too unsalvagably overpowered to be balanced in any way or nerfed into no longer being so overpowered

As for the fighting game example, Pokemon was basically the Smash Bros Ultimate of RPG's for a while. Ever since Generation 3, you've been able to obtain every Pokemon in every game from generations 3 - 7. You could transfer your Sceptile from Pokemon Ruby and use that very same Sceptile in Ultra Moon over ten years later. White it's been a while since I've been keeping-up with the SSBU meta, the main complaints I always hear from the competitive community of that game were DLC characters being too overpowered. Something which isn't a roster size issue, but moreso an issue of Nintendo using a cheap assholish way to encourage players to buy their DLC
Sure, Gen 1 and 2 Pokemon were locked to their specific generations, but this was due to hardware issues. While you couldn't transfer your Gen 2 mons over to Gen 3, at least all the Pokemon up to that point were still coded into the game. Meaning it wasn't a true Dexit, despite what some bootlickers like to claim. This modern-day Dexit bullshit is just plain laziness from Game Freak's part, and the same goes for the balancing of the Pokemon Game Freak does bother to code into the game

All Pokemon being in a metagame has never been an issue in the past. So why would it be an issue now of all times?

not to mention Pokemon was never even meant to have a metagame to begin with
adding in pvp was a last-minute decision for RGBY and it shows, and not a single Pokémon was being made with competitive balancing in mind until like gen 7-8
items and moves also weren't focused around pvp until maybe gen 5ish, and even that's stretching it since competitive was still somewhat niche until the generation after (especially with how stupidly Unova handled online play)
this series was never meant for a focus on battling, and the retarded hijacking taking place where GF is so insistent on turning VGC doubles into an esport and hampering singleplayer campaigns for the sake of it is a large part of what's killing this franchise

 

[PipTheAlchemist]

not to mention Pokemon was never even meant to have a metagame to begin with

Then Game Freak should make a decision. Either keep multiplayer battling and balance the game properly to go along with it, or don't balance the game and just relegate multiplayer interaction to trades and shit with no online or multiplayer battles

 

[Horribadger]

The fun thing about BDSP is that if you use Bank to complete the dex as soon as you get the underground kit, you can get access to all the additional Pokemon species from basically the start of the game. I've been thinking of doing some dumbass runs using this, like, all grass/poison types, or all water/ground types, or some shit.

 

[samuraicrack]

I don't know if anyone else has seen this video but half of it kinda makes a decent point and the other half is insufferable to sit through

Genuinely can't remember the last time someone unironically cried about Pokemon being cock-fighting

 

[Anonitolia]

Genuinely can't remember the last time someone unironically cried about Pokemon being cock-fighting

I'm tempted to say Jack Thompson, but I'm not convinced he ever cried about Pokémon specifically... maybe PETA's shitty parody from gen 5?

 

[whatever I feel like]

not to mention Pokemon was never even meant to have a metagame to begin with

Yeah, sure, 30 years ago when the first games were being made. Times have very much changed and GF is aware of, encourages, profits from and even in some cases balances towards the metagame. Its part of the series now and has been for a majority of it's existance.

 

[Archeops]

TPCi recently dished out a lifetime ban to a TCG judge for harassing transgender players at last weekend’s Vancouver Regional Championship.

The Pokemon Company International has permanently banned a certified judge from participating in the Pokemon community following transphobic behavior toward a group of players at last weekend’s Vancouver Regionals, one of Pokemon’s main series tournaments of the year. The event saw over a thousand players from around the world competing for $65,000 in prizes and a chance to qualify for Pokemon’s 2023 World Championships in Japan.

According to player Elizabeth Barbera, during the event, a Texan Pokemon judge asked to take a selfie with her and a group of transgender players who are part of a competitive Pokémon TCG team called “Girl Power.” He requested to step outside the event hall to ask them questions about the transgender community. “[He] started out positive asking us how Pokemon judges could do better [to be] more inclusive,” Barbera said. “I do think the original discussion was coming from a place of sincerity.”

“But it quickly devolved,” Barbera said. The judge “told each of the trans women in our group how he could tell they were ‘born a boy,’ for reasons such as ‘you have a boyish build’ or ‘you have a manly face’.” She continued, “he didn’t listen to our [views] and instead chose to talk over us.” After politely excusing themselves from the conversation, the judge followed the players to a private dinner outside the event, despite not being invited, and continued to antagonize them. According to player Natalie Miller, he admitted “he needed players to give him good feedback in order to move up the ladder.” During the dinner, he continued to “[go around] one by one to all of us pointing out why we don’t pass for women.”

The players filed complaints through Pokemon’s official support system and the situation was swiftly resolved by event staff. Miller said, “[The event organizers] and other judges were absolutely wonderful with how they handled everything. It was a clear sign that the vast majority of this community is loving, inclusive, and wants to treat people that right way. But the few who get through the cracks do so much damage.”

The incident has left many players shaken. “I’m hearing that there were preexisting allegations against this judge prior to Vancouver and if that’s true I’m even more incensed. LGBTQIA+ folks are being systemically targeted politically. Pokemon is supposed to be an escape for us” said Riley Wren, another member of the group.

Miller further commented, “Pokemon is our safe space, a place where we usually feel welcome and are treated with dignity and respect. To have that stripped from us by a person in a position of power is mortifying. It can take what is supposed to be an escape from a modern hellscape that trans people already face in America and swiftly ruin the entire weekend. Seeing my teammates still deal with panic attacks and feelings of worthlessness is heartbreaking.”

This incident comes in light of recent legislation targeting the LGBT+ community by some American politicians. Kyle M., a trans Pokemon player in Los Angeles who studied political science at USC, explained “American politicians often want us attacking each other. Hate is an easy human instinct for them to prey on. So anyone who’s different, they market them as the cause of all your problems. Immigrants, LGBT people, trans people, minorities, drag queens — they’re easy targets. While we’re distracted attacking our neighbors, the politicians are robbing us with policies that benefit themselves and corporations.” He continued, “Luckily, the Pokemon community is above this. At Pokemon events, fans are usually supportive and just want you to live your best life. They know we’re not hurting anyone; they just let us be ourselves.”

Despite this incident, TPCi has a strong record supporting the LGBT+ community. In 2019, they implemented an official company-wide policy committed to “fostering an environment that is inclusive to all participants regardless of factors, including age, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender, or disability.” The company quickly stripped the judge of his titles and banned him from the community, although it’s not 100% clear if other issues may have lead to the ban as well.

When asked by PokeBeach how TPCi could improve future events, Miller suggested, “There should be a push for inclusive training led preferably by a trans person as to how to treat trans and gender queer people, and how to respond to incidents like this when they happen. I would love to see either optional pronouns on match slips, or something that allows judges to have quick access to a player’s pronouns to avoid any confusion.”

TPCi never comments on situations like this, so we didn’t reach out to them for a statement.

I’m normally pretty “trans-cautious” when it comes Pokémon-related stuff due to Clown World infecting everything it touches like a leper but this is one incident where the instigator was clearly in the wrong, even we have policies against gay-ops like stalking people IRL and taunting lolcows while they’re having dinner. That said, I‘m not sure where the hell we’re supposed to stand on the whole politics stuff, it feels like your standard trans-related cringe but when taken out of its left-leaning slant and applied to the entire political spectrum it becomes surprisingly based.

EDIT: Oh, and if a mod feels that this belongs in A&H then let me know and I’ll move it.

This reeks of "how do you do fellow kids" to me instead of genuine interest, and watching scenarios like that play out in person is always hilarious

From I’m seeing in the article’s comments section it seems that the job isn‘t actually related to tech or programming and that it’s more of an accounting/monitoring job.

People are essentially going apeshit over things that every company is doing at this point even if they have no interest in the NFT scene.

 

[Anonitolia]

The instigator was being an asshole even if he had a genuine point. Bringing your issues with trannies into the middle of a game is also retarded, either don't engage with the trannies or shut up about their fetish until after they're done playing. That was deserved, reluctantly, although a lifetime ban is way too harsh. Especially if this was his first time behaving in that way.

From I’m seeing in the article’s comments section it seems that the job isn‘t actually related to tech or programming and that it’s more of an accounting/monitoring job.

People are essentially going apeshit over things that every company is doing at this point even if they have no interest in the NFT scene.

Everybody who still follows this franchise has become a paranoid ticking time bomb due to how everyone now springs on each other for the slightest little thing- enjoying or bashing certain games (or other minor differences in opinion) will get you beheaded by a majority, and when you abuse people for such tiny things they begin making it a habit to froth at the mouth whenever the people abusing them tell them to just to avoid being beaten over the head for daring to think differently than them. Seeing as the overwhelming majority of people (rightfully) despise NFTs and are already unhappy with the direction the series is going in, something like this was bound to set off a collective shitfit.

 

[Nauseated Courgi]

not to mention Pokemon was never even meant to have a metagame to begin with
adding in pvp was a last-minute decision for RGBY and it shows, and not a single Pokémon was being made with competitive balancing in mind until like gen 7-8
items and moves also weren't focused around pvp until maybe gen 5ish, and even that's stretching it since competitive was still somewhat niche until the generation after (especially with how stupidly Unova handled online play)
this series was never meant for a focus on battling, and the retarded hijacking taking place where GF is so insistent on turning VGC doubles into an esport and hampering singleplayer campaigns for the sake of it is a large part of what's killing this franchise

Yeah, sure, 30 years ago when the first games were being made. Times have very much changed and GF is aware of, encourages, profits from and even in some cases balances towards the metagame. Its part of the series now and has been for a majority of it's existance.

Exactly, just because the focus on battles wasn't the case back then doesn't it has no place being in the game in the first place. Especially, with how robust the combat has gotten over time with EVs and IVs, Egg moves, move tutors, different battle modes, etc. It'd be rather dismissive to claim that battling has no place in the franchise when it's half of the fun.

Not everyone would be into pokemon collecting and the main campaign of the games haven't offered enough of a challenge to encourage the average player to not just brute force their way through most of NPC battles. So, why not have multiplayer include PVP?

 

[Anonitolia]

doesn't (mean) it has no place being in the game in the first place

not what I was arguing
I was more of the opinion that the games should stop tripping over themselves trying to change to fit the battling mold, because there's a good 300+ pokemon minimum that're horribly unoptimized for it and it'd go against the series' core philosophy to constantly obsolete older mon as they're doing now with the relentless powercreep (and you know they're not going to go back and rebalance every single one, so that's the only option left). I don't care if it's an autistic argument, i'd rather see the series about catching and trading remain about catching and trading instead of trying to shoehorn itself into a role it was never meant to fill and become more generic. Every fucking game out there save for the most casual affairs is full of battling and fighting- why can't this series at least retain some focus on what made it unique instead of throwing it all away to become a shitty discount esport?

 

[Archeops]

The instigator was being an asshole even if he had a genuine point. Bringing your issues with trannies into the middle of a game is also retarded, either don't engage with the trannies or shut up about their fetish until after they're done playing. That was deserved, reluctantly, although a lifetime ban is way too harsh. Especially if this was his first time behaving in that way.

I have a feeling there may be other factors in play (such as interviews with the judge in question regarding past discrepancies that weren't newsworthy and skimming any social media presence they may have had) that could've contributed to them getting a lifetime ban, similar things have happened to both competitors and past judges.

Also...

Which one of you guys is lolcow-tipping the site?

EDIT: According to people responding to Pokebeach's Twitter post (archive) about the ban in question it appears that the judge in question has a history of this kind of behavior so this is just another case of fucking around/finding out and not concealing your power level.

Everybody who still follows this franchise has become a paranoid ticking time bomb due to how everyone now springs on each other for the slightest little thing- enjoying or bashing certain games (or other minor differences in opinion) will get you beheaded by a majority, and when you abuse people for such tiny things they begin making it a habit to froth at the mouth whenever the people abusing them tell them to just to avoid being beaten over the head for daring to think differently than them. Seeing as the overwhelming majority of people (rightfully) despise NFTs and are already unhappy with the direction the series is going in, something like this was bound to set off a collective shitfit.

That's something we can both agree with, it also doesn't help that TPCi is doing business with companies that are working in the NFT scene (like Funko).

 

[huecoffs02]

Kiwitrainers. Anyone can help me think of a good partner for Skelebro for VGC? I think maybe Hydreigon is what I am looking for.

 

[Anonitolia]

pozloading my neghole?

what the fuck does this mean

 

[Archeops]

what the fuck does this mean

I edited the post, apparently I got hit by the word filter.

 

[Anonitolia]

...there's a word filter?

 

[huecoffs02]

...there's a word filter?

try writing m. ilk