Philosophy Tube / Oliver Lennard / Oliver "Olly" Thorn / Abigail Thorn - Breadtube's Patrick Bateman.

[The Best of Me]

Not because a disproportionate number of them will be contracting Aids in the very near future?

So what's a handmaiden? Someone who gives troons handjobs?

If you're this green, I suggest you pay a visit to the troon glossary here on the 'Farms

 

[AirdropShitposts]

Oh boy.

https://twitter.com/PhilosophyTube/status/1635938019529093121?cxt=HHwWgsCzicK9grQtAAAA

Abigail Thorn on Twitter: "@bmj_latest @KamranAbbasi Probably cause “…

archived 15 Mar 2023 23:07:02 UTC

archive.ph

Erasing a large group of trans' people experience? Surely not!

Ah, well, guess we can just have it all be voluntarily paid for cosmetic procedures then.

LOTS of anger in the replies, but for just one tweet I'll go with this one:


This is the only thing he's tweeted since the above, with my favorite of the replies:

 

[Clem Fandango]

Uh...kinda tipping your hand that you "transitioned" for the clout, Olly.

Edit:

Also love the way he always frames this stuff by saying "cis doctors". What does their being "cis" have to with anything? Is he claiming they're not competent based on some immutable characteristic that they have no control over?

By way of comparison, every time you see Olly (or any other troon) use "cis" in this way, try swapping it for "Chinese", or "Black", and see how it reads. Usually not too good...

 

[Swole McPole]

If you're this green, I suggest you pay a visit to the troon glossary here on the 'Farms

Very helpful. I have no idea how I'd never spotted that before. Someone should sticky it at the top of the forum.

 

[White-Kettle Shufflepunk]

Also love the way he always frames this stuff by saying "cis doctors". What does their being "cis" have to with anything? Is he claiming they're not competent based on some immutable characteristic that they have no control over?

Very strange, basically erasing the one thing that could distinguish trans identified people from others of their sex while still using "cis" as a self evident catagory.

Imagine someone claiming apendicitis wasn't a concern, but that you should still let people rifle through your kid's insides. You know, for free expression or something.

 

[AssignedEva]

Also love the way he always frames this stuff by saying "cis doctors". What does their being "cis" have to with anything? Is he claiming they're not competent based on some immutable characteristic that they have no control over?

He's said before that trans people know best and should never be questioned and instead should be given everything they ask for.

Spoiler: NHS Sperg

As I've sperged about before (and forgive me if I repeat myself, because this is one of my sperg red buttons), this goes against how the NHS and NICE operate in this country, as they're publicly funded institutions instead of profit driven and therefore have to use evidence based decision making to justify treatments -

consider all lives of all patients whom they serve to be of equal value and, in making decisions about funding treatment for patients, will seek not to discriminate on the grounds of sex, age, sexual orientation, ethnicity, educational level, employment, marital status, religion or disability except where a difference in the treatment options made available to patients is directly
related to a particular patient’s clinical condition or is related to the anticipated benefits to be derived from a proposed form of treatment.

Therefore they don't routinely offer "non core treatments" for trans people like breast implants, FFS, fat sculpting, multiple genital surgeries (e.g. cut balls off now, amhole later), revision surgeries for loss of depth, vocal surgery... because there's no clinical evidence for their efficacy (someone's mental wellbeing isn't demonstrably more functional because they got a rhinoplasty and some lip fillers, they just want it and may be slightly happier with their appearance). Every boob job or hairline revision they cover for a patient is a hip replacement or cataract removal they can't cover, and those show more evidence as having an impact on Quality Adjusted Life Years.

If a young man is dealing with early onset male pattern baldness or a woman is struggling with being flat chested, they might want surgical interventions like a hair transplant or a boob job, but while those procedures might make them feel better about themselves they could also learn to cope with it, and there's lower risk of surgical complications. Even things like lower back pain from massive breasts or mobility issues from knee damage - they'll often push for lifestyle changes and physio over any sort of surgical intervention. And that's without factoring in their staffing issues and massive covid backlog (that's compounding because minor issues have now become chronic conditions).

Harm limitation is a solid rationale. This is why GPs prescribe bridging hormones to trans people who self refer while taking DIY HRT, much like how they prescribe methadone to heroin addicts - safer to have it monitored while waiting for treatment. Likewise IIRC part of the reason GRS got implemented was the risk of self surgery or going to some shady Thai butcher (although mostly because clinical guidelines said it was more effective treatment than trying to therapise away the gender feels).

Ollie's argument (and he's not the only one who makes it) is essentially cisgender doctors do not have the lived experience to understand trans people. A cis doctor won't understand how a boob job can transform a trans woman's life, and the reason there's no clinical evidence for a significant change in quality of life post surgery is likely institutional transphobia - but also they shouldn't need evidence for trans health interventions unlike every other treatment, because it's transphobic to question trans people and the barriers incurred from questioning them are Literally Killing Trans People (because they kill themselves from the distress of waiting or being denied).

Where Ollie goes above and beyond isn't just saying "believe trans people when they say they're gender dysphoric, rather than subjecting them to long waiting times to obtain a diagnosis in a process that is inherently problematic and obstructive" - it's literally just "you don't need gender dysphoria to be trans but you should still give self declared trans people any treatment they want no questions asked".

If you're not gender dysphoric and therefore not in a state of elevated mental health distress that significantly impacts your functioning, then there's not an evidence based rationale for why you should get the procedures done on the taxpayers dime. It's an elective treatment. And if self declared trans people get elective treatment no questions asked? Well slap my face and call me they/them, I wouldn't mind some free lip fillers on the taxpayer's dime.

It's also disregarding detransitioners who are currently suing the NHS for mangling their bodies because they gave them treatments with little-to-no-questions-asked, but that's no surprise with Ollie.

 

[Tryphine]

I'm curious how much of Olly's anti-dysphoria crusade is just middle-class rebellion against his dad. We established ages ago that Olly's dad was an endocrine surgeon, although he's likely retired now. Going through a list of his published papers (a), a lot of them are about the role of estrogen in breast cancer. If you grew up with your dad doing all of this medical research about what hormones can do to your body, choosing to take estrogen for no fucking reason would be a prime way for an immature manchild to get revenge.

On top of that, his mum was a haematologist/oncologist, so it would make sense that he's got a bone to pick with the NHS. It's pretty evil for him to use his own angst to try and ruin other people's lives, though.

 

[AfghanBlue]

Uh...kinda tipping your hand that you "transitioned" for the clout, Olly.

Edit:

Also love the way he always frames this stuff by saying "cis doctors". What does their being "cis" have to with anything? Is he claiming they're not competent based on some immutable characteristic that they have no control over?

By way of comparison, every time you see Olly (or any other troon) use "cis" in this way, try swapping it for "Chinese", or "Black", and see how it reads. Usually not too

Black Doctor WKUK

youtu.be

Olly proves again that he can’t see any perspective other than his own, which he believes to be natural, inarguable TROOTH

Bee Macmagnus on twitter, POW right in the kisser!
I’m so pleased an actual trans person has finally said it, it’s exactly what he is and what he’s doing.
Frame it.
Now we just need a black person to wallop him next time he has their name in his tiny little big mouth.
Muh segregated healthcare, muh reparations, black women are men too-
Shut the fuck up, you posh trail of slime.

 

[AssignedEva]

Muh segregated healthcare

Oh that got my eye twitching again.

I'm sperged out so I'll keep this brief. Ollie and many people like him celebrated the Tavistock clinic closing. They thought this was heralding in a new trans healthcare golden age where going to a GP for titty skittles would be de rigeur (and tbf initially the NHS was signalling they'd be opening a tonne of regionally distributed trans clinics and looking to expand treatment pathways).

The net result is waiting lists have exploded as there's no replacement to the Tavistock and surprise surprise they're probably not looking to open more clinics anytime soon between the current trans youth scandals, shifting political atmosphere and staffing crisis/funding crisis/backlog crisis/training crisis/bedblocking and social care crisis that is seeing doctors and nurses on strike and the government trying to bribe consultants not to retire early.

Spoiler

I'm of the opinion there is a minority of people that genuinely need gender transition as treatment and should be respected in their identity socially - not that this means that biological sex doesn't real or they're entitled to e.g. compete in women's sports. I've got mates who are trans, and the trans people I usually encounter are completely chill normal people as the troons tend to be terminally online and not mix in my spheres. But the social contagion/grooming/coomer aspects are completely undeniable at this point and we need to slam the handbrakes on. The 41% stat is incredibly dubious and the plethora of Cluster Bs in the trans community means "if you don't give me what I want NOW NOW NOW, I will KILL MYSELF" is a very empty threat. Old school trans people lived through way worse without topping themselves, and young trans people have entirely false expectations around medical outcomes.

There's probably wider conversations to be had about the lack of mental healthcare provisions and especially how hard it is to section someone who is demonstrably a threat to themselves, but that doesn't mean you rush to permanently alter their bodies especially when they're young and impulsive - but that's got nothing to do with this thread.

Anyway Ollie is a hon and Contra wouldn't have sex with him.

 

[Swole McPole]

Ollie's argument (and he's not the only one who makes it) is essentially cisgender doctors do not have the lived experience to understand trans people.

I like this theory. They should pass a law that only troons can operate on other troons.

When they all start dying off due to incompetence and rampant infection, we ALL win.

 

[Kars den Karb]

If you're not gender dysphoric and therefore not in a state of elevated mental health distress that significantly impacts your functioning, then there's not an evidence based rationale for why you should get the procedures done on the taxpayers dime. It's an elective treatment. And if self declared trans people get elective treatment no questions asked? Well slap my face and call me they/them, I wouldn't mind some free lip fillers on the taxpayer's dime.

Ollie's done lip filler, right? (As well as more cosmetic procedures people have alluded to.) Seems so from your avatar. Btw, with the severe post-processing, he actually looks like a (strange) woman in that picture.

 

[narcissistic injury]

 

[AfghanBlue]

Christ he is getting murdered over in those twitter replies, lmao.
One autist has written a 20 odd reply thread about why his (deliberate attempt to be opaque, and scare people away from his mighty intellect, “sciencey wordy”) analogy was dodgy and wrong - you know, t he very first reply he did at the first little pushback, before fleeing the dogpile..

Some faves are “Scuffed contra strikes again” & “just cos you transed to fend off SA allegations doesn’t mean we all did lmao”



Aaaaaaanyway, lol, he just keeps coming for dysphoria as a concept doesn’t he?
It really bothers him that it doesn’t bother him, huh.

What amuses me, is that he’s flatly outlined not suffering from it- which means his absolute fury at occasionally being referred to by ‘they/them’, stems not from brutal, crushing psychosocial infirmity; but from the hot rage of being disobeyed.

May we all take a quiet moment to remember that this is his absolute worst nightmare- getting ‘cancelled’ by his own side.
He once compared himself to Jesus Christ for bouncing off the other slight bits of heat he’s had- this isn’t one issue tho- this is the fort topple of a mounting pile of terrible behaviour and problematic statements delivered from a pulpit of snatched, unearned authority- assumed by him to be for the taking because he is what he is- a private school white man. Statements which are clearly, irreparably damaging peoples actual rights and lives, all so he can live out his vain sex/hero fantasies.

So starts an avalanche..?

Love this for him

 

[brocktherock]

In light of this recent intel, which I believe is probably true, it makes me think more than ever he was likely not abused by his ex-girlfriend, but rather he abused her.

lol I can't imagine Olly knowing any woman who could do or say anything to turn his smug smirk into a frown. He wouldn't hear her over the sound of his own farts and the following self-applause.

 

[Johan Hulth]

So Olly has gone from "you don't need gender dysphoria to be trans" to "gender dysphoria isn't real"? Also doctors who don't have cancer can't treat cancer. What a fucking mong this bloke is. All transgenderism is, is the treatment for gender dysphoria. I know there's troons openly lying to doctors about the severity of dysphoria to get titty skittles but Olly is really kicking at the foundations here, holy shit. Backlash from his side must be imminent surely?

 

[scathefire]

All of this might be because he's already painted himself into a corner by being clipped pre-transition saying he's never had gender dysphoria. If that's the case then at least there's a reason he's declared a position that's so hopelessly bonkers.

 

[White-Kettle Shufflepunk]

All of this might be because he's already painted himself into a corner by being clipped pre-transition saying he's never had gender dysphoria. If that's the case then at least there's a reason he's declared a position that's so hopelessly bonkers.

You’d think the easy way out would be to say he didn’t recognise what he was feeling back then. I mean, it’d be a lie, but a lie everyone would be obliged to believe. Much more graceful than declaring that trans isn’t real and also trans people will die without treatment.

 

[Dr. Butt]

View attachment 4791416

Thank you Ollie, for doing so much against trans rights. You've got troons admitting the existence of AGP and calling for GATEKEEPING REEEE against it! Incredible work, absolute madlad.

 

[AirdropShitposts]

I like this theory. They should pass a law that only troons can operate on other troons.

When they all start dying off due to incompetence and rampant infection, we ALL win.

Yeah, I was going to say, I bet he's fine with cis doctors when they're going to actually perform the procedures.

But I guess if we can only ask trans doctors we should ask Dr. Erica Anderson for her thoughts, oops, she's a Nazi now because she agrees with the emerging scientific consensus regarding children. I need more clarification about just who is allowed to decide these things!

 

[Clem Fandango]

*movie trailer voice*

"It takes a skitzo..."

"... to diagnose a skitzo"