Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

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Feline Supremacist said:
This is kind of Realpolitik-y so of course the West will never even consider it. But you should consider Russia doesn't want Romania to be offered NATO membership with its neo-Nazis so the Ukraine scenario repeats itself in another decade after the Ukraine issue is concluded.

Yes.
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Romania is already in Nato I think? The americans wanted the best thiefs in the entire plane, and they sure got them.
 
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Looks like the dirt roads are all that's left, if this map is accurate. And it's the mud season, plus Ukrainians are going to be artillery / CAS / mortar / direct fire targets all throughout.
 
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YumeNoHero said:
Good lord in heavens, do they think war is like a children game?
"I am not going to announce my presence and eliminate my enemies."
"Noooooo that's cheating, nooooo!!!11"
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The problem is a lot of people are disconnected from the way modern wars (or wars between equal powers) are fought. Back during Iraq and Afghanistan, people believed that militaries needed to be 'scaled down' to special forces. We've largely been fighting conflicts against non-state actors (ISIS, Taliban) and extremely lopsided state actors (Iraq, Libya) that had 0 regional support or allies.

This is really the first war between major powers since WWII, or Korea if you want to count it. Wars were generally limited to spheres of influence with major powers acting as proxy in both the attacker and defender. This is really the first time gloves have come off and you have major powers (NATO vs. Russia) going at it.

There's a lot of delusion in the US military command, because this war basically has taken their operational principles (small armies, special tactics in the future) and just shit all over it. I mean, look at Afghanistan. They predicted a two month take-over that took less than two weeks.

Now, you're not fighting goat-herders where the conflict is completely one-sided. You're fighting a modern military with modern artillery and arguably a more militarized opponent. Combined arms warfare basically wasn't practiced in the West for like, the past 20-30 years. Iraq was the closest and it was barely even a fight.

People forget the horrors of artillery, of hiding in a trench and what you have to do to survive. Not to mention what a 7.62 round does to a human body. I think the most telling video was the one of the Russian ambushing the guys in the trench after grenading them. It was a furious, desperate and horrifying struggle for both the attackers and the defenders.

99% of the population aren't sociopaths and don't want to kill people. Even in that video, he was trying to make the two guys surrender after grenading them. He didn't want to kill them, he had no choice at the end of the day.

Not to mention the aspect of the fog of war is completely lost. The guy in the video is alone, in a fucking enemy trench. Of course he's going to kill anyone he comes across. Its a space of about a foot wide and six feet high. Its claustrophobic, you've been shelled and mortared, and you don't know where anyone is. Since the Ukranians and Russians are using the same rounds largely, you can't distinguish friendly fire from enemy fire. You're just operating on pure adrenaline at that point and it really is a testament to the soldier's willpower that he just doesn't keep gunning down everything he sees.

Yeah, its super easy to armchair quarterback war when you're sitting in a nice comfortable chair, in a spacious room, at a desk in a climate controlled room with food, water and indoor plumbing. Most of these people can barely comprehend the horrors of modern war because we're shielded from it. No matter what, you're not going to be seeing shocked veterans on our streets or soldiers reeling from what they've had to do to survive.

The guy who wrote 'All Quiet on the Western Front' related a story about how he saw a Frenchman climbing over barbed wire and was struck by an artillery shell, and all that were left were his hands holding onto the barbed wire. Not to mention our entertainment has largely been neutered to what actual war is. Fury was really the last war film that showed just the sheer fucking horror of a war, even if you're winning it, how fucking terrible it can be.

Sorry to go on a huge rant, but this fucking slavish devotion to 'sides' and this childish wargaming is getting fucking tiring. This is a proxy war dick measuring contest that real people are fucking dying over. They're dying in the mud and in trenches and getting blown the fuck up and shit themselves in fear that if they peek an inch too high they're dead. Corpses are stacking up like cordwood in buildings.

But no, keep flagging this fucking war on. Yes, I get Russia invaded. Life isn't fair. Russia isn't going to back off. You're not going to bleed Russia anymore without committing to the third world war. China will not tolerate a balkanized Russia. Its time to sit down.

The problem is that Zelensky isn't calling any fucking decisions anymore. The US is. And now, all decisions are political. Meaning men on both sides are dying for this stupid fucking dick measuring contest. Now everything is about face. Just like WWI was. A useless conflict that everyone involved in was too politically motivated to sit down and prevent people from dying in.

crustystipend said:
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Looks like the dirt roads are all that's left, if this map is accurate. And it's the mud season, plus Ukrainians are going to be artillery / CAS / mortar / direct fire targets all throughout.
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Oh lovely, a retreat through dirt roads and open fields in a modern war with artillery, drone strikes and deep recon units harassing you. While you're flanked on both sides.

Fuck anyone who rooted for this meatgrinder.
 
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Secret Asshole said:
Fury was really the last war film that showed just the sheer fucking horror of a war, even if you're winning it, how fucking terrible it can be.
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Similarly the scene in Saving Private Ryan where there's a hand to hand battle in which a German soldier grapples with and slowly stabs one of the Americans - that's something I can't forget, decades later. I agree with your post - when you fight with total ISR on your side against a blind opponent that doesn't have optics, let alone thermals and radar and you can pixelate and sanitise the horror of what you've wrought on the battlefield and this keeps happening for decades to the point that you can show clips of it on the nightly news and people keep eating their popcorn, you start to believe your own propaganda. You think all opponents are pushovers and that you'll never be meaningfully retaliated against.
 
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74164978231 said:
All this death and destruction because America "elected" an senile corrupt idiot.
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What death and destruction? I'm still having trouble believing this is a war at all. Celebrities, world leaders, camera crews in "warzones" and clearly no one is too concerned about their safety. Hotels still open, game studios still producing. Seems more like a series of tiny gun fights on the border with the occasional missile being shot at an empty building. We're being told this is a titanic struggle between good and evil but you see worse combat footage from Iraq in the 2000s. Meanwhile with all our super advanced cameras and we're getting mostly nothing but a tour of scenic Ukraine, which hilariously, looks like it was bombed out years ago and never recovered.
 
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White_N said:
:story: :story: :story: :story: :story:

Ahem... NIGGERS, NIGGERS, GAY NIGGERS, SCHITZO NIGGERS, SWINE NIGGERS, MUTT NIGGERS, BUCK BROKEN NIGGERS
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see also
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So Putin, a current sitting head of state gets an arrest warrent while Tony Blair, a man who us bongs have been screaming war criminal at who sent thousands of good British men to die in the dead-end's that where Iraq and Afghanistan gets a free pass? God give me strength.

Nothing will come from this anyways, the Russian's ain't just some Balkan backwater and can just tell the toothless ICC to pound sand.

I faked the autism said:
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>You can't just flank us without giving up your position thats not fair
A war crime has been committed, The Wagner PMC group did not announce there position before attacking and did not ask the Ukrainian soldiers there pronouns.
Found this Gem on /pol/ the posts are hilarious.
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This ain't some sneeky breeki Russian 'vatnik' being a coward, this is some dumb hohol retards not watching their flanks and getting an AK shoved up their arse for it. If these traits of lack of situational awareness and no all-round recon are commonplace in these fresh Ukrainian units, then that would say a lot about how far Ukrainian training standards have fallen.

Secret Asshole said:
Oh lovely, a retreat through dirt roads and open fields in a modern war with artillery, drone strikes and deep recon units harassing you. While you're flanked on both sides.

Fuck anyone who rooted for this meatgrinder.
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Fuck Zelensky mostly, it's more egregious when you realise that this is being all done for PR, good men being sacrificed for internet people to feel good and to appeal for more gibs from NATO, there was a similar PR campaign happening back during the Mariupol siege, but I see this one being 100x larger.
 
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Shadfan666xxx000 said:
This dude was 37? We talk shit about Ukraine dragging all sorts of shit to the trench but this dude could be a grandpa in the ghetto. What the fuck is going on over in Russia?
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47. He was a mobik, probably someone's dad/grandpa, and now he's dead.

I think they have different standards over there than here, though. If memory serves, in Prigozhin's prison recruitment video, he said the cutoff was 50 (contingent on physical condition.) FWIW, our friend here looks pretty solid for 47.
 
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Gondolindrim said:
What death and destruction? I'm still having trouble believing this is a war at all. Celebrities, world leaders, camera crews in "warzones" and clearly no one is too concerned about their safety.
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It's (almost) always the case that the people screaming for war aren't the ones who end up covered in shit and screaming.

In these uncertain times, it's one of the few universal constants.
 
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