Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

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All administrative buildings and important industrial facilities in Artemovsk (Bakhmut) are now under the control of Wagner PMC. Ukraine now only controls the western residential portion of the city though it does not look like they will retreat anytime soon. Russia's fire control over the roads leading to and from the city will make the AFU suffer terrible losses in any military action they undertake in this sector be it a retreat, counterattack or the reinforcement of their remaining positions.
 
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It's why I'm so burned out by politics, people care about labels so much that they think ideology must be tied to the supposed functions of said ideology.
A lot of people treat politics as a cable TV subscription. Maybe you are only interested in watching 5-6 channels, but you absolutely have to pay for the entire package of 378 channels, whether you like it or not.
Leftists MUST adhere to whatever bullshit their party comes up with, to avoid being labeled as bad people.
 
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You're confusing leftists for liberals. I'm a leftist, and I assure you we are 100% for Russia in this. Russia's government is garbage and much too liberal, but it's fighting western imperialism, so that makes Russia the good guys by default.
The liberals are the ones benefitting from western imperialism, they're the enemy every bit as much as their nazi tools in the Ukraine.
 
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All administrative buildings and important industrial facilities in Artemovsk (Bakhmut) are now under the control of Wagner PMC. Ukraine now only controls the western residential portion of the city though it does not look like they will retreat anytime soon. Russia's fire control over the roads leading to and from the city will make the AFU suffer terrible losses in any military action they undertake in this sector be it a retreat, counterattack or the reinforcement of their remaining positions.
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This is from roughly 2 days ago according to Rybar. This is not, in my opinion, credible map since it would imply a general retreat or a total collapse. Slavyangrad is reporting a similar map, but these optimistic overprojections are pretty common on both sides. Maybe they did close the cauldron, but I'm skeptical.
 
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I don't think 80k troops will do a lot pending the circumstances. Russia has Bakhmut effectively surrounded, and without pushing the northern and southern battle lines back, you're sending all those troops into a small concentrated area where they will constantly be getting flanked and shelled. It seems like they're severely lacking in air superiority and it's very hard to make an offensive push without consistent close air support. Sheer numbers probably won't be enough to compensate for poor battlefield positioning. I'd be surprised if they could get any heavy armor anywhere near the city. Russia just needs to pick off tanks with drone fire as the move into the city and the infantry can be kettled and shelled into oblivion. It's a waste of money and manpower. Ukraine should have retreated weeks ago and they'd be in a much better position for a counter offensive.
 
Russians are probably using the Su-34s in their proper role as a bomber, and the ukies only come up to shoot them down and ignore dedicated fighter aircraft.
While you're right. Hellducks though have teeth to go with their bark. Their PESA radar had been improved beyond the 90's public released specifications.

They also happen to be fairly capable at visual range combat. Not quite on par of their flanker brethren but still. There was a YouTube video of Su-27 vs Su-34 in a mock/training dogfight from on of Russia's many military shows a while back. While the Su-27 won the engagement. It was by no means a easy one.

Speaking of Su-34 air-to-air capability. Reminds of a well know event in the Soviet air force, That happened between a pair of Su-27 and the Su-34 predecessor ..the Su-24. That was written by then a former Su-17M2 pilot.

This was back in the 80's, over the Caucasus, during a war-game. a pair Su-27's, piloted by of fresh faced lieutenants. Got called up in the air to intercept a pair of Su-24 fencers.

Said Su-27's pilots brimming with confidence and ego being the elite and flying the latest plane. Decided not to intercept the pair of Su-24 in BVR. And to extend their time in the air and have some fun/entertain at the expense of said Su-24 and their pilots.
So they Instead decided to close in to visual range and get the drop on Fencers from above at speed, then to engaging and 'kill' them with short range missiles or gun.

However, at that time the Soviet air force had a habit of transferring it's oldest pilots(Colonels) in the fighter aviation. To the attack aviation, mainly the Su-17M2's/M3, etc along to Su-24's. Then afterword's on to military transport aviation and or to Aeroflot. (Which fucking explains the shenanigans of Aeroflot pilots in the 80's so much.)

So this were old dog's. On top of that old dogs nearing being kicked to transport or Aeroflot. So they knew their plane.

Another thing of note was. What the pair of SU-27 pilots didn't know. Was that the Su-24, had surprisingly, excellent acceleration in supersonic flight. And of the important note here. Was that the original/vanilla Su-24(in other words not Su-24M's ) were deceptively maneuverable planes for what they were at low altitudes.

Especially in this case, starting with the t
he 21st batch of serial produced Su-24 known under NATO label Fencer B' Which had number of changes along with more simplified and less overbuilt airframe. Shaving some kilo's and a fixed intakes as apposed to variable once. Which again shaved like 200+ kilo's of weight. (Which limited Su-24 maximum speed from M=2 to M=1.6 at altitude. Although at the cost of the engines Mach 2 could be still attained if needed.) As such the Fencer-B was the lightest and most maneuverable Su-24.

So In the ensuing dogfight which the Su-27's ended up getting into. To the Su-27 pilots surprise! The Fencers wiped the floor with cocky rookies sitting in the Flankers to the amusement of the entire air forces. Which followed said Flanker pilots throughout their carrier, along with free drinks and jokes.
 
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Same here in Hungary.

"Oh, I dropped my favorite mug! Damn you Orbaaaaaan!" (Soros, or Gyurcsany, if you are leaning right)

I believe this line of thinking could be attributed to communist background. If you are conditioned to praise a dear leader for everything good, it is only natural to blame him for everything bad.
A lot of people treat politics as a cable TV subscription. Maybe you are only interested in watching 5-6 channels, but you absolutely have to pay for the entire package of 378 channels, whether you like it or not.
Leftists MUST adhere to whatever bullshit their party comes up with, to avoid being labeled as bad people.
I think it has something to do with how post communist countries like hungary and russia inherited this government flavor of "power and corruption concentrated around central government figures & families" instead of the good old capitalist usa's "power and corruption concentrated around corporations".

In hungary, the governmental "service" providers - and all things government, to be honest, like healthcare and education - inherited this "fuck you, you're not a customer, you're nuisance" treatment of people from the USSR era, and the current governments done jackshit to change this, because they're still USSR era nepotist shits (that including both "sides" of the political spectrum in hungary).
"A fish always rots from head down" / Fejétől bűzlik a hal.

As for leftists.. absolutely true, although if you ask the average fidesz voter, you'll get the exact same impression of "bleating with the flock".
As one who can't associate with either side, I'm usually called out by both as the evil opposition XD
 
You're confusing leftists for liberals. I'm a leftist, and I assure you we are 100% for Russia in this. Russia's government is garbage and much too liberal, but it's fighting western imperialism, so that makes Russia the good guys by default.
The liberals are the ones benefitting from western imperialism, they're the enemy every bit as much as their nazi tools in the Ukraine.
Leftism in the West is different from leftism in Russia. In the USA, it's primarily about putting things in your ass and collecting Nintendo-themed merchandise.
 
I think it has something to do with how post communist countries like hungary and russia inherited this government flavor of "power and corruption concentrated around central government figures & families" instead of the good old capitalist usa's "power and corruption concentrated around corporations".

In hungary, the governmental "service" providers - and all things government, to be honest, like healthcare and education - inherited this "fuck you, you're not a customer, you're nuisance" treatment of people from the USSR era, and the current governments done jackshit to change this, because they're still USSR era nepotist shits (that including both "sides" of the political spectrum in hungary).
"A fish always rots from head down" / Fejétől bűzlik a hal.

As for leftists.. absolutely true, although if you ask the average fidesz voter, you'll get the exact same impression of "bleating with the flock".
As one who can't associate with either side, I'm usually called out by both as the evil opposition XD

I'm not sure I mind this. The customer is always right created the generation of entitled redditors. Call me an old cynic, but the goverment gives the orders, that is always how it has been. Perhaps the people giving the orders wouldn't work. Perhaps it would, and Razorfist is right. I wouldn't mind being wrong.
 
I'm not sure I mind this. The customer is always right created the generation of entitled redditors. Call me an old cynic, but the goverment gives the orders, that is always how it has been. Perhaps the people giving the orders wouldn't work. Perhaps it would, and Razorfist is right. I wouldn't mind being wrong.
I feel like civilizations lasted longer when it was recognized that most people are idiots and shouldn't have a say in how things are run
 
Canadians training the Ukies in Poland have to pay for their food out of their own pocket... Times are tough I guess...

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You're confusing leftists for liberals. I'm a leftist, and I assure you we are 100% for Russia in this. Russia's government is garbage and much too liberal, but it's fighting western imperialism, so that makes Russia the good guys by default.
The liberals are the ones benefitting from western imperialism, they're the enemy every bit as much as their nazi tools in the Ukraine.
I was always thinking that Russia's domestic policies are left leaning. And so is Putins brand of nationalism. He tries to please and include all kinds of nationalities and interests within the Russian federation. From the Jewish oligarchs in the west to the Chukchis in the north east.
Maybe Putin is right wing when it comes to traditional marriage and LGBTQ thats why western right wingers seem to like him...
 
I was always thinking that Russia's domestic policies are left leaning. And so is Putins brand of nationalism. He tries to please and include all kinds of nationalities and interests within the Russian federation. From the Jewish oligarchs in the west to the Chukchis in the north east.
Maybe Putin is right wing when it comes to traditional marriage and LGBTQ thats why western right wingers seem to like him...

It's hard to tell what way Putin leaned because simply has people to please. A lot of people I know say he's pro-European policies were mostly because some of the oligarchs and liberal elite.

Personally to me it did look like he was Pro-European. Hell! Closing down spy station in Cuba and allowing Americans to ship their logistics to Afghanistan via Russia and Central Asia. Along with sharing Intel in regards to events after 9/11. To bending backwards on few other items. Doesn't show he was anti-American either necessary.
 

Quick Update in the Bakhmut Front - April 4th, 2023​

Territorial Control​

  • Wagner PMC has captured the entire AZOM Industrial Complex, the most fortified area in Bakhmut, including the railyard, with troops of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU) withdrawing. They can now assault the rest of North and Central Bakhmut to the western side of the complex and create more cauldrons to force more AFU withdrawals. Wagner troops can push harder into the rest of the city with the most fortified areas of the AFU now being the commie-blocks in West Bakhmut.
  • Most of Central Bakhmut is now in a grey area, with the troops of the Armed Forces of Ukraine fighting units of Wagner Group in all parts of the area, with Bakhmut Multidisciplinary Intensive Care Hospital, Hotel Atlantic, and the buildings around B. Gorbatova Street being hotspots for combat. In the ensuing battles, Wagner PMC units have captured School Nº 11 and are now assaulting Sk "Metalurg" Stadium. Wagner PMC forces have also pushed towards Rizdvyana Street in the South of Bakhmut closing another cauldron to force the AFU to withdraw again.
  • In the north of Bakhmut, after two weeks of a standstill, Russian forces have slowly advanced towards the northern outskirts of the village of Bohdanivka.
Bakhmut
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North of Bakhmut
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This confirms this map put out by @Zman.
All administrative buildings and important industrial facilities in Artemovsk (Bakhmut) are now under the control of Wagner PMC. Ukraine now only controls the western residential portion of the city though it does not look like they will retreat anytime soon. Russia's fire control over the roads leading to and from the city will make the AFU suffer terrible losses in any military action they undertake in this sector be it a retreat, counterattack or the reinforcement of their remaining positions.

Prigozhin reveals that General Surovikin was the planner behind turning Bakhmut into a “meat grinder”​

Yevgeny Prigozhin, after raising the flag on the administrative building of Artemovsk (Bakhmut) , spoke about the details of the preparations for the operation to crush the enemy in the neighborhoods of this city. The press service published a message from the head of the PMC “Wagner” about the participation of General Surovikin in the planning of hostilities.

The decision to carry out Operation Bakhmut, the so-called “Bakhmut meat grinder”, was taken by the commanders of the Wagner PMC. Sergey Vladimirovich Surovikin was directly involved in its development and implementation, back when he was leading the group. And so a lot of the decisions that were made, I would attribute to him Evgeny Prigozhin says.
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He’s back.

For those who are new, Sergey Surovikin is considered to be the most competent general in the Russian Armed Forces. Surovikin rose through the ranks through the wars he fought and not just going through military school like many Russian generals do. He fought in the Soviet-Afghan War in a Spetsnaz unit, commanded the unit that was responsible for the casualties in the 1991 Soviet coup d'état attempt, and commanded the Russian Armed Forces deployed in Syria that turned the tide of the Syrian Civil War into the favor of the Baathist government under President Bashar Al-Assad.

In the Invasion of Ukraine, Surovikin was assigned commander of the Yug (South) group of Russian Armed Forces, which is currently the most competent group of the Russian forces. He then became commander of all Russian forces in Ukraine in October 2022 and was the one who ordered a Russian Army withdrawal from Kherson to prevent the cut of supplies as well as to gain better ground for the troops. After being replaced by the Chief of the General Staff Valery Gerasimov as commander of the Russian forces, he became Gerasimov's deputy supervising missile strikes and the elite Russian Airborne Forces (VDV). Recent news suggest that he is back supervising over the Yug command and the Bakhmut front.

Sources​

Weeb Union​

Suriyak​

Final update​

Expect an update from me next Saturday.
 
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Putin is your middle of the road centrist russian. He is the guy who you can't order around but can negotiate with.

May Adolf have mercy on our asses if he gets minecrafted and an actual bolshevik takes his place. All this Putler crap is for shit memes, the guy is scary, but not he is keeping the really scaries back. Sure they can try to get a glowie yes man, but the chances of that maidenning well is like exotic rainforest frog's chances in the syberian winter.

This whole shit was Russia doing its things, not making much fuss. Things were ok. But US wanted to get revenge with Cuba: Hohol boogarroo 2.0, and now we are here.
 
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