Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

Sort of. China going to economic war with the US is mutually assured destruction but the US is more likely to bounce back quicker.
That seems overly optimistic. A lot of American industries have offshored the manufacturing of necessities to China, to to the point that many things that claim to be made in the USA are just several Chinese components assembled in America. America imports a LOT of stuff to China, and if imports suddenly halt America won't have the expertise or capacity to manufacture a significant portion of their daily imports. They might be able to buy some from other countries, but nobody else has the same manufacturing capacity and may just relable Chinese stuff at jacked up prices. Meanwhile China can start diverting exports to other countries, and has the capacity to unwind some operations or convert to producing goods used internally. With it's push to become the main trade currency for oil and gas it'll be able to get other countries to buy its debt like they did for America.
 
That seems overly optimistic. A lot of American industries have offshored the manufacturing of necessities to China, to to the point that many things that claim to be made in the USA are just several Chinese components assembled in America. America imports a LOT of stuff to China, and if imports suddenly halt America won't have the expertise or capacity to manufacture a significant portion of their daily imports. They might be able to buy some from other countries, but nobody else has the same manufacturing capacity and may just relable Chinese stuff at jacked up prices. Meanwhile China can start diverting exports to other countries, and has the capacity to unwind some operations or convert to producing goods used internally. With it's push to become the main trade currency for oil and gas it'll be able to get other countries to buy its debt like they did for America.
Literally none of this is accurate anymore lol. It hasn't been for 5 years
 
Russian shill & gun/miltuber "Big Caliber Trouble" (Крупнокалиберный Переполох) tries sending a Carl Gustav rocket/shell through an expended AT-4 tube.
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I've posted some of his more interesting/relevant videos in previous thread incarnations; although he's likely funded & given direction by the FSB and/or MoD (or even Wagner), he still makes content with a lot of Russian stuff we don't get to see on US gun/miltube channels.
I was so confused, isn't he supposed to hold on to the grip
 
I doubt Z is too scared of Azov now after the nutjob element was decimated. Azov now seems to be less mental sig heil, and more like a batallion that inherited the name which kinda works for internal propaganda.
The ideological leaders of Azov were not in Mariupol and have not been part of the Regiment for years. They created the National Corps Party, and now command the 3rd Assault Brigade and Kraken. The Azov Regiment has also been expanded into a Brigade under the command of Azov POWs that were exchanged. They have the full backing of the Government and Military.

Zelensky even presented the Battle Flag of the 3rd Assault Brigade to them in person and has given Azov soldiers the highest state awards.

I should also add that Azov are not the only militant nationalists in Ukraine, they just get the most international media attention. Right Sector is now the 67th Mechanized Brigade.
 
That seems overly optimistic. A lot of American industries have offshored the manufacturing of necessities to China, to to the point that many things that claim to be made in the USA are just several Chinese components assembled in America. America imports a LOT of stuff to China, and if imports suddenly halt America won't have the expertise or capacity to manufacture a significant portion of their daily imports. They might be able to buy some from other countries, but nobody else has the same manufacturing capacity and may just relable Chinese stuff at jacked up prices. Meanwhile China can start diverting exports to other countries, and has the capacity to unwind some operations or convert to producing goods used internally. With it's push to become the main trade currency for oil and gas it'll be able to get other countries to buy its debt like they did for America.

tl;dr: My point is the US and China both have guns leveled at each other's head, and pulling the trigger will be nearly as detrimental to the average human condition as nuclear exchange. No one want that.

The allocation of capital to China is a concern. But China lacks a lot of the specialized hardware and is still largely bulk. This dependence on China is why companies keep the "tour" factory in the states and are opening sublines in places that aren't China. If something happens with China, they can begin shifting production. The problem is China CAN'T divert production to other countries. No one consumes like US - there is no other comparible market. The US cuts off China and the Chinese economy grinds to a halt, the middle class implodes, and with chaos in the streets the people stop believing the CCP has the mandate of heaven.
Things are not great in the US, and I'm pretty sure the EPA stops being a functional entity, but in a couple years things are back on track.

regarding your Oil & Gas, remember that until Biden came and fucked it up, the US was net-exporting petrolium products*.

At lot of the economic theorizing is hard because it'd comes down to WHY both sides went full retard. If Sleepy Joe just forgets his meds and says being a chink is now illegal, the US is likely not going to find many allies who offer more than token support. Likewise if Winnie the Pooh goes on state TV and announced a new 10 year plan of "All Gweilos Must Hang", they will likely find themselves isolated.
Even a Taiwan invasion is hard to predict because it won't just be a bunch of PRA waking up one morning and being told they're going to a little swim. There will be a long chain of escalation where everyone will be trying to talk both sides out of fucking around because they don't want to find out. How both sides behave during that escalation, and the backroom deals made, will determine how things shake out.
Remember, no one wants this, so when you've got Tyrone and Demarcus beefing at the party, if you tell both of them 'Its not worth it, Nigga' and Tyrone actually starts to back down only for Demarcus to swing on him, you and the boys are going to jump Demarcus because he's clearly the crazy nigga.

Additionally, another thing to consider, is that nothing fuels an economy like total war (as long as the war isn't happening in your production center). If China decided to cut off the US, the US may just decide that War is Economics through other means and contest the blockade with its stock piles. The US has ICBMs that can target individual sidewalk tiles in China, China has MRBMs that - if the wind is just right - might reach San Fransisco.China has zero force projection and their logistics are awful.

*for the spergs: The US was still importing oil under existing agreements, but more product (diesel, gas, plastics, etc) was leaving the US. That is, if the imports stopped, the US was still producing enough to meet internal demand.

I was so confused, isn't he supposed to hold on to the grip
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Look at that nigga's Earpro.
 
That seems overly optimistic. A lot of American industries have offshored the manufacturing of necessities to China, to to the point that many things that claim to be made in the USA are just several Chinese components assembled in America. America imports a LOT of stuff to China, and if imports suddenly halt America won't have the expertise or capacity to manufacture a significant portion of their daily imports. They might be able to buy some from other countries, but nobody else has the same manufacturing capacity and may just relable Chinese stuff at jacked up prices. Meanwhile China can start diverting exports to other countries, and has the capacity to unwind some operations or convert to producing goods used internally. With it's push to become the main trade currency for oil and gas it'll be able to get other countries to buy its debt like they did for America.

If America + allies blockade China they're fucked. China barely has the capability to go toe to toe with America, against the US, Taiwan, Japan, S Korea, Australia, New Zealand, and the Philippines they are hopelessly outmatched and they know it. China cutting off exports to the US right now would crater their whole economy and although America's shelves would be bare for a year or so other countries like India, Indonesia and Mexico would step in, the US would have more secure and plentiful supply chains and everyone would be wary of giving China your exports. In 20 years China's population is going to crater inwards hard and they know it, but in the short term America's alliances and international power are too much for China to fight alone or with idiot basket cases like Pakistan, Iran and Russia. China has only bad and worse options.
 
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If America + allies blockade China they're fucked. China barely has the capability to go toe to toe with America, against the US, Taiwan, Japan, S Korea, and the Philippines they are hopelessly outmatched and they know it. China cutting off exports to the US right now would crater their whole economy and although America's shelves would be bare for a year or so other countries like India, Indonesia and Mexico would step in, the US would have more supply chains and everyone would be wary of giving China your exports. In 20 years China's population is going to crater inwards hard and they know it, but in the short term America's alliances and international power are too much for China to fight alone or with idiot basket cases like Pakistan, Iran and Russia. China has only bad and worse options.

"Who are our Allies?"
"Russia"
"You mean the guys with the #3 army in Ukraine right now?"
"I mean 4th if you believe the retards going on about NATO polish mercenaries"
 
No actually they thought that it was going to be a cakewalk like 2014 but even easier. The SBU and FSB had been fighting a shadow war inside of Ukraine since Euromaidan and Putin thought the FSB had won and all of the Ukrainian government, from top to bottom, would crumble and hand over the keys to the Russians. They were wrong.
For how everyone talks about how Ukraine is/was the most corrupt nation in Europe, its surprising Putin never made plans for those people he bribed just pocketing the money and then lying to the FSB about their loyalty.
Apparently there's a town in Ukraine named Stinky. Can we move the Bakmut fighting there instead? I want to see articles about the battle of Stinky in the news.
I believe in France you had some fights around the villages of Grossy and Messy during both World Wars.
Some more from Baghdad Bob or comical Ali as some called him as well. This takes me right back to 2003. I remember watching this shit happen live. It was crazy. The US invaded Iraq and no one was talking about trannies. Good times. Not really.
"The Americans are throwing themselves at the gates of Baghdad. They are dying in droves!" Simpler times, back then...
Impossible to tell accurately, but it does look that they constitute a visible part of the more elite, better trained force, and have rebranded in a few ways, like Kraken. You can occasionally see Sonnenrads on uniforms of "regular soldiers", so my guess is that this neopagan ultranationalism is somewhat spread within the ranks, like some sort of brotherhood.
Personally I find the Nazi sympathies cringe simply because Nazis and Slavs don't mix. The Sonnenrad I would replace with a Kolovrat. The ethnic nationalism I don't mind at all, not even when it affects the Romanian minority or interests negatively, because I feel strongly that we can solve issues with Ukraine diplomatically, without savagery and chimping out, and that it is imperative that East European smaller nations learn to band together when one is attacked, and reject the narcissism of small differences.
Azov and Nazis do exist, but Russia is just cynically using their small numbers to fuck up the whole country and take land from it.
Eh, when you start digging into shit with Ukrainian history its less cringe than you think. Himmler had a bizarre obsession with the Nordics, and the Kievan Rus was settled by migrating Swedish Vikings, who would in the 1100's start absorbing displaced Anglo-Saxons from England following William's conquest of the place. They've arguably got a better claim to a lot of this stuff than the Nazis ever did.
Surprisingly, that mat is dying out. It's almost cringe to use old-fashioned obscenities and it has been relegated to old guys or marginal elements of society.

Modern Russian obscenities have been reduced to "blyat", "suka" and various sexual directives.

Blame American culture and proliferation of "fuck ".
Feels bad man. As an American I can safely say Russian comments about the devil's relatives are highly entertaining.
Ironic when Vatniggers swear up and down NATO tanks and AFVs are too heavy and cumbersome compared to Russian counterparts.
We've been very good at making proper tracks and suspensions to handle all that weight. For example, despite adding over ten tons of weight to the Abrams in its various upgrades, the overall ground clearance loss has been... two inches, from 19 to 17. There have also been no reports of the tank getting bogged down in a manner it wouldn't have before all of that.
When an Azov recruit goes through five weeks of basic training they are not called by their name, but by the number they are given. If they can not pass basic they are cut from the program. If they pass basic training they receive the Azov chevron and are given a new name which they will be known as in war. Metro, Chemist, Frost...

Azov has many internal Rituals that tie soldiers together ideologically, some are told publicly like the Day of the Dead Ritual I posted before, and others I am sure members will only know.

Besides the military side of things, the Azov movement has been working for years to build culture, publishing houses, sports clubs, MMA, Boxing, music concerts, awards for outstanding literature, summer camps for children. Everything the nationalists have been saying we should do here, has been done for a decade in Ukraine. Azov is not going anywhere.

It's worth noting that Azov promotes getting married young and having lots of children. Women are involved in everything but direct combat. No incels here.

These three video were made by liberal journos who belatedly lie in the video, but they do give you an idea of the cultural events Azov runs.
Fuckers sound like Mandalorians. That is definitely some weird creepy shit.
That's actually it. The T-72 T-80 and T-90 were built when the Soviet Union was still around. The Russians most likely never thought they would have to drive through their own mud or the mud in Eastern Europe. Most of the tanks were probably stationed around the border with Western Europe. But they wouldn't drive them across the Soviet states they would load them up on trains and send them West. They were expected to be able to operate on Western European land and roads.
Unironically this. Both NATO and the Pact were planning on Russia drawing first blood. Western war planning was "fall back across the Rhine as slowly and orderly as we can and wait for reinforcements from CONUS, but if it looks like we won't be able to do so, nuke everything". Naturally the Russian plan was to take enough of Western Europe fast enough nuking them would be politically untenable.
Kiev claims it's a Russian op to troll for intel. Some Russians think it's a Ukrainian op to mislead ahead of their offensive. US isn't really saying anything.
Honestly? There's a non-zero chance it was an intentional leak by the USA. "Psst, hey, Putin. You can drop the pretense and admit that the war situation has not necessarily progressed to Russia's advantage now that some of our intel has been aired."
Perun does that and he's always right tho.
I have no idea how the fuck you pronounce Russian shit.
although it took a couple years for the rest of the world to catch up because France
Considering the French kept methods and the formulation secret for obvious reasons a couple years is damn fast. Everyone had to create their own formulations and production methods from scratch, and even the initial development of smokeless powder by the French had taken a couple years before it could be safely mass-produced.
It really do be like that. Someone went through the trouble of collecting the predictions of one vatnigger (200K+ subscribers) over a 5 month period.

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Is there some reason its missing the necessary accompanying musical score?
 
Eeeeeh... I'd say it's a double-edged sword. Don't they depend on it just as much, if not more? Manufacturing could be taken elsewhere if need be, but that would leave China scrambling.
What's going to happen to their economy if they were to stop export to the West? In the shitter, I reckon. For some reason people never account for that when they bring this up.
I don't think China would be willing to do anything of sorts in the foreseeable future.
I'm looking past that and at the larger picture. China's influence across different nations is ever growing and although it is true that America and China relations are a parasitic relationship; one of them will fail and the question then becomes does the host fall with the parasite, will there be expulsion, or will symbiosis take place? America is too focused on the short term, in the moment sort of reactionary state, when China's been slowly building relationships in Africa, South America and other, "shit hole" countries. We are only now seeing the impacts of their long term play as no alliances are being formed while the US is being cut out. For good reason too. Out of all the presidents I've had the opportunity to live through, I have yet to see one reach out to a country and offer to foot the bill of critical infrastructure in a country that can't afford it. I've seen plenty of wars and foreign conflicts start and continue however. It was very refreshing coming out of Trump's first term without some new war or an empty promise to pull soldiers out of countries that shouldn't be there to begin with.

TLDR: For the last few decades, making deals with America has been making deals with the devil. It'll come back to bite us hard. I mean a sitting president murdered a US citizen and got away with it because we were useless warhawk idiots.

Edit:
My perspective and opinion was better expressed by others prior to replying to this.
 
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I'm looking past that and at the larger picture. China's influence across different nations is ever growing and although it is true that America and China relations are a parasitic relationship; one of them will fail and the question then becomes does the host fall with the parasite, will there be expulsion, or will symbiosis take place? America is too focused on the short term, in the moment sort of reactionary state, when China's been slowly building relationships in Africa, South America and other, "shit hole" countries. We are only now seeing the impacts of their long term play as no alliances are being formed while the US is being cut out. For good reason too. Out of all the presidents I've had the opportunity to live through, I have yet to see one reach out to a country and offer to foot the bill of critical infrastructure in a country that can't afford it. I've seen plenty of wars and foreign conflicts start and continue however. It was very refreshing coming out of Trump's first term without some new war or an empty promise to pull soldiers out of countries that shouldn't be there to begin with.

TLDR: For the last few decades, making deals with America has been making deals with the devil. It'll come back to bite us hard. I mean a sitting president murdered a US citizen and got away with it because we were useless warhawk idiots.

Edit:
My perspective and opinion was better expressed by others prior to replying to this.

This whole text makes no sense, China doesn't build infrastructure for free, they build it with Chinese companies via loan shark loans from the People's Bank of China which the host country inevitably defaults on, at which point China forces them to sell stuff to China at a loss or accept Chinese military presence. It's exactly what all of the edgy critics accused the US of doing in the 80's-2000's.
 
thugshaker leaks r real lol, and they’re domestically leaked. is a congressman’s son really into thughunter???
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So, russian casualties are like 200k and half their armored vehicles are lost fucking hell
 
This whole text makes no sense, China doesn't build infrastructure for free, they build it with Chinese companies via loan shark loans from the People's Bank of China which the host country inevitably defaults on, at which point China forces them to sell stuff to China at a loss or accept Chinese military presence. It's exactly what all of the edgy critics accused the US of doing in the 80's-2000's.
some info on this
 
China doesn't build infrastructure for free
I didn't say that, I did however state that China is helping third world countries in building infrastructure implying that the outcome is easier to trade with China and also open the doors to resource exchanges/deals with other countries thus furthering their influence. In addition, it opens it up to Chinese factories outside of China. How did American culture seep into Europe and Asia? American products such as the entertainment industry, music, and food helped assimilate cultures without actually invading like Russia to Ukraine. Same thing with China and the glory the CCP can bring. Yes, there is also the scenario of which you've outlined as well, either way it is a net benefit to China. This is why I believe they are more dangerous than Russia, Russia is nothing, Putin is nothing; however, if Russia is successful in Ukraine they might have something.

some info on this

This is the video I was trying to reference but couldn't remember the name of the project. Thanks
 
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The irony is the most fervent vatnik Russians in the retard thread refuse to join the Russian military in what is likely to be the most pivotal conflict for their country in their lifetimes while insisting victory is right around the corner. I guess seeing their CSGO buddies face down in a trench on telegram isn't encouraging for recruitment.
Are there actual Russian nationalists in that thread? All their most vocal supporters seem to be native English speakers.
I think there were some T-80's used in Ukraine.
Hell, Oryx lists >400 captured or lost. They absolutely did have working turbines, though a lot less of them now.
Makes you wonder how overhyped China is with things heating up around Taiwan.

Unstoppable yellow zerg, or uncoordinated bugmen?
To be fair to China their economy is bigger than Italy's, unlike Russia. However they share the problems of corruption, poor training and a lot of their equipment is derived from Soviet shit.
thugshaker leaks r real lol, and they’re domestically leaked. is a congressman’s son really into thughunter???
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So, russian casualties are like 200k and half their armored vehicles are lost fucking hell
"Of course it's real - the lowres one with 600 vehicle losses, not the highres one."
-Vatniks, probably
 
The brits built muh infrastrucktcha in Afrika and it didn't exactly last.
I'm not sure why the chicoms doing it is gonna yield different results...
The difference is British infrastructure failed because of the lazy niggers who wouldn't maintain it properly, while chinese infrastructure will fail because of the incompetent chinks who couldn't build it properly.
 
And to make it even worse, the Kremlin calls it a defensive war, and I have yet to see a vatnigger disagree with that assessment. According to Russian and batshit insane Western vatnigger propaganda, this is just a short list of Ukraine's crimes:

* Bombing 6 million kids in the Donbas
* Genociding Russian speakers by forcing schoolchildren to learn the national language
* Electing the Jewish Nazi Reichsführer Zelensky
* Ditto, but this time, Zelensky and Azov are fake Nazis and need to be killed by real nationalists from Russia
* Biolabs that were developing weapons to kill Russians
* Secretly preparing a genocidal offensive against the totally legitimate Donbas separatists
* Secretly preparing an invasion of Russia itself
* Ditto, but this time Ukraine had allowed NATO divisions to participate in the imminent invasion of Russia
* Committing acts of terrorism in Russia... after the invasion
* Calling the capital city Kyiv instead of Kiev

You would have to be an exceptionally shameless coward to be anywhere but the front if this is what you believe. Especially when there is no danger at all to Russian soldiers.
Don’t forget, the Russians themselves are now sending central Asian colonists to replace the Ukrainians of Mariupol too, yet I see White nationalist pro Russia simps still arguing about how le Russia is basederino because they hate troons and fags!
 
For how everyone talks about how Ukraine is/was the most corrupt nation in Europe, its surprising Putin never made plans for those people he bribed just pocketing the money and then lying to the FSB about their loyalty.
Honestly this is the thing that pisses me off the most. Russia could have gotten Ukraine back into their sphere with nary a shot fired if they just hadn't chimped out and continued to their usual shit of paying off politicians. They would have eventually gotten them back in line. Shit, I honestly don't know why he didn't try to get Ukraine into the EU while still having his hand squarely up Luka's muppet ass, and then they'd have never left - it'd be like being in the EU without needing to cuck to faggots in Brussels.

But Putin needed some internal PR so here we are.

If America + allies blockade China they're fucked.
Oh one other thing I forgot to mention in the Chinkpocalypse is that China is a (net) importer of food. Massively so. The US is the world's largest exporter. That is, in a Full Retard polarization, while the US shelves are empty of Funkopops and every day is a black friday fight over the last flatscreen TV, the chinese will be going back to "The Great Leap Forward" levels of cannibalism.

Don’t forget, the Russians themselves are now sending central Asian colonists to replace the Ukrainians of Mariupol too, yet I see White nationalist pro Russia simps still arguing about how le Russia is basederino because they hate troons and fags!
And those Central Asians are largely muslim.
they are really owning the Jews by islamifying a Christian area. Isn't that what keeping Ukraine from the EU was supposed to stop?


The difference is British infrastructure failed because of the lazy niggers who wouldn't maintain it properly, while chinese infrastructure will fail because of the incompetent chinks who couldn't build it properly.
I was reading this thread about this Belgian couple traveling through the congo (who somehow avoided murder and rape) and when they stopped in this one town they were given a Hero's welcome - the Congolese thought because they were white, they were there to restart the local autoparts factory and bring back jobs. When the shitlib Euro, who was starting to become more based by this time, asked them "the workers know how to run the machines, why don't you guys just restart the factory yourselves?" to blank stares from the natives.

There was also fun with the border patrol trying to shake them down for bribes because "There is a database error". The couple told the grifting niggers to fuck off, and they eventually gave up, but not before the guard asked "Can you tell me what a database is?".

The only thing the Chinks bring to the table is zero qualms about the fact blacks are niggers and the lowest form of human life. There is no local governance, there is no pretense of this being anything other than resource extraction and debt ball twisting, but China hasn't yet gotten to see what happens when you back a lose.

The whole movie is worth a watch, but this is the particularly relevant part of "Empire of Dust"
 
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