Off-Topic Losing people to transgenderism support thread - Support group for trans widows and other people who lost loved ones to troonism

[fargoamadeus]

Honestly i don't think so. You can try speaking your mind in the kindest way possible but you should be fully prepared for either them quietly distancing or for it to turn into an open conflict. Either way your name will now be on their shit list . I think it still might be worth it in case they eventually exhaust their cicle and if they finally sober up they might remember the people who were honest with them from the start, but don't hold your breath. Knowing what i know now i'd just deal with my own feeling about it on my own and stay clear of the person.

Almost every instance of someone drinking the troonshine involves them burning every bridge. Not even family and intimate friends have too much power over a manic person with fragile ego, maybe if society as a whole would wrangle them better but if they find doctors and support groups and online communities validating then off they go, not coming down from that cloud in a while.

No matter how much sense you make and how good your intentions are they will see you as an antagonist thats being toxic and will feel like scratching you from their lives will be better so they can start their new self with their new family of retards who validate their insanity and hype them up. You are now the fake friend who doesn't support them in their blossoming, how could you do this, you must not want them to be happy, you monster, and so on.

God, yeah...
Every time I've tried it just escalates into an argument, even if it isn't about them. Pooners especially take that shit way too personally. Every single one I've tried to deprogram always has a groomer pulling them back in. It sucks more when you have mutual friends with the pooner. It sucks but just cutting all of them cold turkey has worked best for me.

I’d just ask her if she considered that she will never have a functioning penis, that people will only refer to her as male out of politeness, that she never had a male upbringing nor experienced genuine male masculinization of her body, and that men will never think of her as a fellow man.

Some of them are semi-aware and know that and insist on still going on Testosterone and having weird dried out vags, and others are totally delusional and insist they have a "t-dick", or completely misunderstand how anatomy works. It's really amazing how misinformed some of them are, or willfully ignorant. At least they will all say the same talking points, which is fairly easy to counter. Funny how they don't realize the hysterical nature of their tone is a very female thing. None of them ever understand male and female socialization and inflections.

Anyone else notice how many of them are on tugboats or don't socialize?

 

[Ann Berlin]

Reasoning with pooners is usually a no-go. Not only did T make them manic and gave them goof tier confidence, they are living in the sunkest of cost fallacies. Their boobs are gone, their hair is receding and their vag is so dry it's basically a sandpaper sandwich constantly rubbing against an overgrown clit. Even their voice went from princess to frog.
Basically they thought existing in a female body was so painful that becoming a permanent medical patient who is constantly uncomfortable socially and physically was better. Logic has no place here.

 

[Peaky Binders]

I have too many of these stories but I'll drop the one I consider most interesting. In my early twenties I lived in a cornfield town and I dated a woman who looked exactly like Ellen Page. Literally this resemblance was the first thing anyone commented on when they met her. She was extremely sweet and creative.

After we broke up she came out as a lesbian, then a couple months later, so did Ellen Page. A couple years after that my ex had butched up a little, and she decided to move to a big-city alphabet ghetto. Since lesbians are an endangered species as soon as she found her people she came out as genderspecial. Then, a couple years after that, so did Ellen Page.

Page beat her to the pills and surgery, but not by much. I have avoided any photos since that happened because I don't want to ruin my memories, but based on how she looked when we were together she could only have turned into a comically stereotypical pooner. No telling which one will hit the finish line first.

 

[Runch]

There was a lot of talk recently about what could possibly be said to help talk people out of trooning out.

As discussed there probably isn't a really good answer unless you're closer to them and more involved in their life than the cult they're falling into. Maybe get into their router and block Discord on an IP level, and change the password on your way out?

I don't have any experience fixing broken people but sometimes I wonder whether you could shock someone into introspection with something harsh enough that you risk being cut out of their life (as the cults recommend). There have been plenty of posts shared from social media where troons talk about how so-and-so family member once told them they would always look like an ugly man and how it stuck with them. That may be what some people need to hear, because they're not gonna hear it from their groomers.

Don't take any of my advice because I don't want to be held responsible for causing anyone drama and issues. But I just wonder if a gentler version of the YWNBAW copypasta could leave a lasting mark. Particularly in the sense that anyone who has observed this phenomenon for any length of time are now 100% accurate fortune tellers. "You will withdraw from anyone who doesn't constantly affirm your delusion, and you will require that constant affirmation because you won't even believe what you tell yourself. Every time you think some new change or milestone will help, it won't, and you'll be looking for the next thing to fix. Nothing will make you truly satisfied with yourself. You may think you're unsatisfied now, but that pales in comparison to the sunk cost fallacy you will pursue for the rest of your life. You will always be distraught about your appearance, and the looks you get in public will be a constant source of stress and shame. You will become more and more insular and spiral into depression, drugs, and social media addiction. Through it all, you will always seek permission from others to allow yourself to be happy, rather than finding happiness on your own terms."

Is there a friendly way to deliver that kind of message?

You could probably couch it in terms of someone you once knew and watched go through this. Relating it as a sad scenario you've personally observed roots it in your "lived experience" but it also lets them delude themselves into thinking it won't happen to them.

Just needs to be a message they can refer back to when they think of you, and realize "oh shit I'm on step 3 of what they said would happen."

 

[Kel1 shi1]

Just needs to be a message they can refer back to when they think of you, and realize "oh shit I'm on step 3 of what they said would happen."

1. Cope
2. Seethe
3. Dilate

Those are the steps, just deliver them in a more verbose way. Cope, denial of the facts you are telling them and the delusions they are buying into. Seethe, mad at getting misgendered because they don't pass and never will. Dilate, lifelong pain of meds and treatment, still don't pass, all the problems they had before are still there and now more of them.

 

[SIMIΔN]

A few weeks ago, a FOB <Asian> girl moved into the house I share. Initially I assumed she was either gay or rebelling against the pressure to get married, as she basically dresses like a boy all the time haircut and all.
As I got to know her, she moved to Australia and switched careers from <male dominated career> to something a lot more 'human' because of the unending demands placed on young workers in her country. She's said she temporarily only dates women because she feels safer with them (she's really short), I haven't known her for long, so I didn't pry further.

She has complained about backpain a lot, I thought nothing of it. Today I found breast binders hanging from our washing line. Is this girl in danger of trooning out? She seems psychologically healthy other than being a heavy drinker. I'm a man, so it would be too creepy to suggest that a supportive bra would be far better for her back than the binders she wears all work day.

 

[Mrs. Addams]

A few weeks ago, a FOB <Asian> girl moved into the house I share. Initially I assumed she was either gay or rebelling against the pressure to get married, as she basically dresses like a boy all the time haircut and all.
As I got to know her, she moved to Australia and switched careers from <male dominated career> to something a lot more 'human' because of the unending demands placed on young workers in her country. She's said she temporarily only dates women because she feels safer with them (she's really short), I haven't known her for long, so I didn't pry further.

She has complained about backpain a lot, I thought nothing of it. Today I found breast binders hanging from our washing line. Is this girl in danger of trooning out? She seems psychologically healthy other than being a heavy drinker. I'm a man, so it would be too creepy to suggest that a supportive bra would be far better for her back than the binders she wears all work day.

IMH binders are a gateway drug. Unless she's also into cosplay where a lot of people wear them.

The thing about only wanting to date women sounded like there's been trauma.

Technically, per SJW speach, if you want to know if she's trans, you should ask for her preferred pronouns... Not sure how close you guys are, but my policy around trans friends is to avoid the topic of gender like the plague and make a giant fuss about how woman can be tough and tomboys and use power tools just like anyone else.

 

[Sinner's Sandwich]

Basically they thought existing in a female body was so painful that becoming a permanent medical patient who is constantly uncomfortable socially and physically was better.

For these fucked up creatures a horrible mutated & mutilated female body is better than a healthy one.

 

[SIMIΔN]

Technically, per SJW speach, if you want to know if she's trans, you should ask for her preferred pronouns... Not sure how close you guys are, but my policy around trans friends is to avoid the topic of gender like the plague and make a giant fuss about how woman can be tough and tomboys and use power tools just like anyone else.

She's definitely been through something, or she wouldn't go through most of a wine bottle a night.
We mostly speak Chinese which has no gendered spoken pronouns, but she has a feminine English name.
I will what you suggest and discourage self-pigeonholing, there are three billion ways to be a girl.

 

[Doktor Grimm]

I just wonder if a gentler version of the YWNBAW copypasta could leave a lasting mark [...] Is there a friendly way to deliver that kind of message?

What do you hope to gain from transitioning?

Do you struggle with the expectations of your birth gender? Are you uncomfortable with how others perceive you? Do you hate looking at yourself in the mirror? Gender transition is the cure to none of these things - you have merely been gaslit into believing that it will rid you of those deeper insecurities. Any "signs" you may have exhibited are likely the result of confirmation bias.

Each step in the process of transition will be met with a wave of validation from the people you surround yourself with. Validation of the kind you might rarely, if ever, receive otherwise. It might satisfy you for a while, but it'll never be enough. Your transition will become the only thing in your life that matters, forever chasing that high as you desperately seek the thing that will finally make you happy, whether it be changing your name, taking cross-sex hormones, or undergoing experimental surgeries.

You will be encouraged to cease contact with anyone who fails to affirm you in your transition, and continue to seek support from those who claim to accept you unconditionally while pushing you further and further down this doomed path. If you're lucky, your friends and loved ones will play along, not wanting to threaten your mental state.

What is the end goal? Do you genuinely believe that you can become a member of the opposite sex? Most trans people never truly pass as anything more than an uncanny emulation of their desired gender, and even those who do "pass" only manage to achieve this after several years of wasted time and energy, still just an imitation of what nature created. You'll enter a constant state of worry over your appearance, worsened by the looks people give you in public, as you sink deeper and deeper into depression and become increasingly reliant on affirmation from strangers online.

No amount of empty validation or medical intervention will lead you to happiness. The solution to your own problems can only come from within. Remember that it's never too late to leave this destructive path and turn things around.


(IDK if this is still too harsh. Really good idea though.)

 

[LinkinParkxNaruto[AMV]]

We mostly speak Chinese which has no gendered spoken pronouns, but she has a feminine English name.

Tell her she is bringing dishonor to her family and she's making her ancestors cry.

 

[Runch]

(IDK if this is still too harsh. Really good idea though.)

This is but if you are truly a friend and hope you can fix things and see them stay normal/regain normality, I might include something like:

"I understand that this is harsh and not what you wanted to hear, but my perspective on this is rooted in wanting to help you and keep you from ending up on a dark path. The people who helped convince you that you need to follow this path will tell you to cut me out of your life for saying all this, but please understand that if you choose to do that, it will be your decision and not mine. I'm here for you, and even if you stop speaking to me, I'll be waiting right here for you to come back someday."

 

[PoisonedBun]

From what I can gather, the person being reacted to referred to the transgender fTm shooter of the church school, in which they killed several children and staff something akin to 'tranny'. While it's deleted it appeared to have been in a single short text post. For the crime of insulting a murderer several others dogpiled on them and compared it to calling a black shooter a nigger, of course saying 'n word' instead.

Obligatory

 

[Stare Man]

Someone I know recently "came out" as non-binary, her husband divorcing her over the increasingly crazy things she was doing and saying. I watched her slowly put up more and more "queer" centric posts, eventually convince her husband to open the relationship for a few weeks before he finally divorced her and she moved to a "queer community" in a major city. In college we would have called them soulmates. I'm grieving the death of the person I knew. It wasn't until looking back at the escalation that I noticed how cult-like the induction was.

 

[Bankingway]

I've had two people in my life transition on me.

Spoiler: nothing too scandalous, but still pretty personal

The first was younger, excitable and an artist. She was green to the whole "art" thing- but still plenty creative, enjoyable to be around. I didn't pry into the home situation out of respect (unless it came up first), but what I heard sounded like prime reasons to have low self-esteem. Hard cut to two years later, she's going by a very Aiden-esque name and puts surgery scars all over her art. Fortunately her style is still appealing aside from.. that, so the likelihood of me being startled during a scroll through the Tumblr/SJW art watch thread is slim. Slim, but still nonzero.

The second was the polar opposite of the first, aside from also being an artist. Very composed, reserved, didn't have as much raw creativity (in terms of drawing by imagination) but was incredibly talented, had wonderful art that she didn't think was all that remarkable. I was a bit intimidated at the idea of speaking to her at first, because I'd seen her work prior and felt she was unapproachable. The opposite was true, actually- she was a good friend, more mature than I was by a long-shot.
The signs were always there, when I really think on it. Abusive and discouraging relatives, low self-esteem due to that, likely being shamed for "manly" interests with or without them.. I still beat myself up somewhat for not telling her at least once that I liked her just the way she was, "nonfeminine" interests or otherwise.

The worst part was how quiet it all was. She'd always been reserved, but I got the feeling she was telling others besides her longtime friends what was going on. From my point of view, the only signs were she was uncomfortable being called a woman, blowing up at me for calling her "girl" later down the line and preferring I use they/them instead. Fortunately for me, I didn't get much time to be an enabler afraid to hurt her feelings, because she cut everyone off (regardless of how supportive they were) and deleted everything a while ago. Even if that still hurts, at least I don't have to personally watch another person I care about fall into some form of spiral I can do nothing about.

It all saddens me more than anything else. It's akin to watching a friend get into drugs- it's about as hard to get it out of their system, ends up hurting them just as much if/when they go off the deep end, and more often than not it takes something drastic to snap them out of it. Only difference is, it's encouraged to keep enabling them to just slightly ease their anguish and you're a bad person if you think it'll all end badly.
How awful.

 

[Where's Waldo?]

What do you hope to gain from transitioning?

Do you struggle with the expectations of your birth gender? Are you uncomfortable with how others perceive you? Do you hate looking at yourself in the mirror? Gender transition is the cure to none of these things - you have merely been gaslit into believing that it will rid you of those deeper insecurities.

I think that a lot of these types of people would react to these questions with, "Of course not!"

They want to feel like they have power over the situation. In their minds, they won't say, "I'm trooning out because I hate how other people see me. I can't handle it."

They say, "I'm really just more comfortable like this [because if I really was a guy/girl then I implicitly wouldn't have to deal with these things at all, ever. It wouldn't even be up on the table as a question. If it was (i.e. in the case of a ftm afraid of rape) then at least a guy getting raped by another guy is rarer, or a guy dealing with female social expectations is hilarious in the same way as crossdressing can be.
'Oh look at me I'm a big manly man dealing with these stupid woman things! Oh yes I'm totally a girl! Look at me!' ]"

I've known a couple chicks who thought this way... basically IRL kikomis.

Many people do not want to admit to weakness.

I'm aware that there are some troons who will verbatim say, "I really just hate how people have treated me," but not every troon is so candid. Some are actually aware how this makes them sound even more like their original gender, so they play fucking 5D chess in their heads to pretend that they're "more like the opposite sex" in their heads. The funny thing is when someone like that meets a member of the opposite sex who doesn't meet the troon's retarded expectations of how they would act. By funny, I mean fucking infuriating.

Grow the fuck up.
Not all boys are stoic, girls aren't all ditzy princesses. Being a ditz or a stoic motherfucker doesn't make you the opposite sex. Being the opposite sex wouldn't make you "more of that", because you'd still be you, even if you were magically transformed. Accept yourself or kill yourself.

 

[Terffals]

Falling like dominos, my friendships are. They fell at the lightest prodding. I have broken the paper tissue barrier of “we won’t talk about anything that stresses me out” followed by “it doesn’t affect you why do you care so much”

I hate this so so much. Maybe this was what I needed to wake up. I don’t want brainwashed friends or those so lazy and uncaring they don’t think about anything beyond smoke weed and watch kids cartoons. That’s fun sometimes but it doesn’t mean you turn your goddamn brain off entirely.

Fucking shit, it hurts though. Is this what righteousness feels like? It’s sucks. I’d rather be spineless and have friends.

Seriously I can bring up any topic except mention once trans crime rates and it’s “woah, you’re bumming us out why don’t you cool it”

 

[Stoicism Is For Losers]

It's akin to watching a friend get into drugs- it's about as hard to get it out of their system

Arguably harder because at least crack addicts arent encouraged by all of society to keep doing crack. treatment for addiction is to get them off the crack. Encouraging crack addicts to stop doing crack isn't going to get you fired from your job.

 

[Akari Is My Wife]

Falling like dominos, my friendships are. They fell at the lightest prodding. I have broken the paper tissue barrier of “we won’t talk about anything that stresses me out” followed by “it doesn’t affect you why do you care so much”

I hate this so so much. Maybe this was what I needed to wake up. I don’t want brainwashed friends or those so lazy and uncaring they don’t think about anything beyond smoke weed and watch kids cartoons. That’s fun sometimes but it doesn’t mean you turn your goddamn brain off entirely.

Fucking shit, it hurts though. Is this what righteousness feels like? It’s sucks. I’d rather be spineless and have friends.

Seriously I can bring up any topic except mention once trans crime rates and it’s “woah, you’re bumming us out why don’t you cool it”

Back when it was cool to be offended by everything, I discovered I didn't really have any friends. Getting internet points was more important, I guess.

 

[Terffals]

Back when it was cool to be offended by everything, I discovered I didn't really have any friends. Getting internet points was more important, I guess.

I never thought I was really autistic up until the moment I realized I’d rather tell the truth than have friends.