Western Animation - Discuss American, Canadian, and European cartoons here (or just bitch about wokeshit, I guess)

[Oilspill Battery]

I watched the sea beast, and I have to say I feel really sorry for all the talented animators and artists that are forced to work with dogshit writers who's only possible explenation for still getting jobs at this point is blackmail.

The high quality of the animation juxtaposed with the insanely low quality of the writing just frustrates me, because imagine what an actually good writer could do with this team and budget.

I don't understand when the bar for writing in kids movies dropped this astronomically low. My only guess is that as technology improves producers realize they can cut corners on the writing team because as long as the keys are sufficiently shinny audiences won't care.

Spoiler: The bar has fallen so low

First of all, the biggest issue with the movie is that the red bluster basically tames itself and is instantly friendly to humans that 24 hours prior were trying to kill it. This is important because its literally what the entire plot hinges on. Why is the red bluster suddently friendly exactly when it has been sinking ships and killing people for god knows how many years?

Its like the writers watched httyd and thought "We can do that" without understanding how and why it worked. Hiccup was able to tame toothless in httyd because:

A.) Toothless didn't see hiccup trying to kill him. (Jacobc tries to kill the sea beast twice, one of those times in a 1v1 where the sea beast is literally staring at him the entire time and even tries to stop him)

B.) Hiccup spared toothless right in front of the latter and helped him escape.

C.) Hiccup showed that he is not a threat several times.

D.) Hiccup brought a crippled toothless food and toothless was barely in a condition to fight back after being maimed, crashed and hungry.

E.) Even then toothless was apprehensive and took a long time to warm up to hiccup.


In the sea beast the main characters try to kill the bluster right in front of it, they fuck up and the captain tries to kill them (long story) the bluster for some reason seeing the people that just a second ago were trying to kill it RESCUES them, and then jacob tries to kill the bluster several times in a row AFTER it rescues him for no reason, and then after the main characters get in trouble the bluster risks its life trying to rescue them AGAIN and then is instantly tamed and they ride it around wherever they want.

They tried to kill this thing twice, and twice it risked its life for them for literally reason other than the plot needed to progress somehow.

Why? We see that it has no qualms about killing people or destroying ships (It kills like a thousand people onscreen when it literally charges the HMS victory or whatever the fuck it was called while it was idle, not even in self defence) so why did it spare the protagonists and befriend them other than because it was needed for the plot to happen? Especially when while it was trying to befriend them, they were trying to kill it the entire time?

It cannot be understated how stupid this is. Imagine if in httyd, while toothless is tied up with the bola hiccup tries to kill him, but another dragon stops him, and toothless frees himself then rescues the person that was literally trying to kill him a second ago. AND THIS HAPPENS TWICE.


And the overarching plot also makes literally no sense. It turns out that the royal family that PAYS the monster bounties out of pocket falsified history books to justify monster hunting for profit, which is stupid in so many ways.

First of all, the way the falsification is discovered is beyond stupid:

A.) The little black girl discovers that all the history books are printed by the same publishing house. No shit? How many presses does she think exist in a medieval kingdom? How is this even proof of anything at all?

B.) The main hunter read in a book once that 5 centuries ago a city was destroyed by a sea beast. When he passed by (passed by mind you, he didn't even inspect the island, he just saw it on the horizon this one time) the place where the city was, he didn't see no city. No shit??? The book literally says the city was destroyed you fucking retard what were you expecting?


And second of all, what? How the fuck do they make profit like that? There's not even a whaling alegory here. The hunters don't bring back whole carcasses that can be used, they just bring the monster horns back as killproof and get paid out of the monarchs pocket and the rest of the bodies are left to sink. And this somehow makes the royal family profit???

At first I assumed that the monsters were blocking trades and expansion routes, but no, that was a lie all along. So why the fuck are they even killing monsters? What was the lie and what was the truth?

And the way the movie ends is also awful. To not disturb the sea monsters, they decided to just straight up stop exploring. Yeah that's literally how the movie ends.

"And with that, the world began to change, no ship would ever sail the dregmorr again, and the mysteries beyond would remain undisturbed."

This is supposed to be a positive ending? Just isolate everything and everyone, don't explore, don't discover, just sit home and consoom?

There so many more more problems with the movie, like the fact that what kicks the movie into gear also makes no sense, the royals that have been falsifying history to continue monster hunting that they make no money out of and pay out of pocket, decide to just cancel monster hunting alltoogether and fund their own expeditions, which again, if they fucking lied about the monster war to begin with then what is the point???

Where is the money coming from, how the fuck does the royal family benefit from paying randos to kill monsters that apparently aren't bothering anyone if they don't even want or use the bodies???

And the witch that shows up once in the movie to give the captain a really big harpoon then makes a threat that scares the whole crew that is never followed up on.

And the fact that 500 years of war and profiteering are instantly stopped because a black 6 year old girl gaving a speech that somehow everyone in a 500 mile radious heard.

Man, I just don't get it, how did we go from Stallion of the Cimarron, Mulan, Tarzan, the Prince of Egypt, the Hunchback of Notre Dame, How To Train Your Dragon, Atlantis and Treasure Planet and countless other masterpieces to... this.

This movie is just depressing me because its another nail in the coffin of the art of animated storytelling.

 

[Grumpy Pickle Rick]

I hated this Encanto too. Like the ending where the family lost their powers over badly managed family drama but gained understanding felt like reasonable ending. Maybe the real miracle was the family and community the magic allowed build and prosper and now they can continue that on their own. Horrible price for knowledge but underlines importance taking care of daily lives to avoid horrible consequences while being still happy enough ending for a kids film. Nope, they got their powers too because... I don't know, they came together?

God, that movie bugs me, I don’t hate Encanto but there are so many things wrong with that movie.

For example:

1. Why did Alma make a big fuss over Mirabel not getting a magical gift? Alma doesn’t have one herself.

2. The way the family and the village made Bruno an outcast was stupid. His power is to see the future, he can’t control it.

There’s more, but I’ll leave at that for now.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

snip

Wait, you are telling me the writers thought about a setting with a location where there are a lot of violent monsters and they decided it's essentially Africa? LOL LMAO.

By how you describe it the moral is essentially that white man should never have interacted with Africa, which is pretty based.

 

[Amber the Hedgehog]

The way the family and the village made Bruno an outcast was stupid. His power is to see the future, he can’t control it.

That part pretty much only aspect of Brono I didn't mind. I think the story made clear enough why that happened. It was lame revelation after the build up but understandable.

Everyone saw Brono causing trouble because he predicted and told them about bad things that would have happened anyway but now they had time to get worked up about them. Basically he made bad situations worse and people tend to hate that sort of stuff. Alot of it was him having bad social skills that made him come across as sinister or creepy rather than powers themselves. Also he had been gone for awhile after mysteriously disappearing. That had allowed him to become somewhat of legend and stories about him to get exaggerated.

 

[Grumpy Pickle Rick]

Basically he made bad situations worse and people tend to hate that sort of stuff. Alot of it was him having bad social skills that made him come across as sinister or creepy rather than powers themselves.

That’s ridiculous.

1. If he told them their futures, that’s probably because they wanted to know. They didn’t have to know, they wanted to know.

They made their choice when they went to him.

2. Having bad social skills is bullshit. Not everyone is a social butterfly. Some people are timid or shy, it’s just part of their personality.

 

[Amber the Hedgehog]

That’s ridiculous.

1. If he told them their futures, that’s probably because they wanted to know. They didn’t have to know, they wanted to know.

They made their choice when they went to him.

We don't know this. We know what he told to people but not how he became to have those conversations outside of two exceptions. Grandma asked Brono about Mirabel witch resulted him running away and his remarks before weather aunt's wedding. These would indicate that there were both going on, him getting asked and him just giving out predictions on his own, but those both were special circumstances with close family members. So we simply don't have information how he was with the general public. Only how they took it, witch wasn't exactly positive.

2. Having bad social skills is bullshit. Not everyone is a social butterfly. Some people are timid or shy, it’s just part of their personality.

If you are unintentionally unpleasant, unpleasant is what people are going to take on it. It's really that simple most of the time and you don't have to be social butterfly to have good social skills.

Brono is clearly portrayed as a kind wierdo who regularly manages make people uncomfortable. Him living in his family's walls for years and spying on them should tell everything about his ability recognize boundaries. He didn't mean anything bad by it but it's still very creepy. The fact the hearing chick didn't call him or family out on that despite fully knowing what's going on also indicates that he wasn't the most pleasant guy to interact with.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

Wait, you are telling me the writers thought about a setting with a location where there are a lot of violent monsters and they decided it's essentially Africa? LOL LMAO.

By how you describe it the moral is essentially that white man should never have interacted with Africa, which is pretty based.

What makes it even funnier is the fact that like 50% of the characters in the movie are black, so its literally the "Slavery was bad for america because it brought over black people" meme except from the other side of the political aisle.


The issue writers wanted a generic "feelgood" message, so they just crammed anti colonialism, anti imperialism, anti war profeteering and anti whaling in the last 10 seconds of the film with no care or regard as to how they would actually interact with the elements presented in it.

As much as the red death feels a bit childish in httyd, it helps tie up most loose ends even if it does so clumsily because it is an explenation for dragon hostility and large enough for the vikings to reconsider their old traditions after killing it, because both the dragons AND the vikings have a solid motivation. The dragons are naturaly peaceful, but they need the viking's shit because otherwise they'll be killed by the red death, and the vikings want to kill the dragons so their shit won't get stolen anymore. Killing the red death solves both.

Meanwhile the motives of both the beasts, and the royals are practically nonexistent here, so neither the war, nor the peace makes sense.

So, are the beasts peaceful or not? If they are peaceful why do you need to halt travel at the end? If they aren't peaceful, why did the royals need to lie to kill them to begin with? How do the royals make profit by paying out of pocket for hunters to kill peaceful monsters not bothering anyone who's bodies they don't even use for oil or whatever? And again, If the monsters aren't peaceful, then again WHY DID THEY NEED TO LIE TO BEGIN WITH?

If the royals didn't lie and the monsters are hostile, there is literally no reason to not stop killing them. They are destroying your trade and expansion routes and blocking humanity's progress.

If the royals did lie however, then whole fucking plot doesn't make sense because hunters shouldn't exist because nobody benefits from this lie. If you want trade routes and there are peaceful monsters, just ignore the fucking monsters instead of wasting money killing them for no apparent reason.

The fact that 50% of the cast is black and there seems to be perfect equality in this world makes the anti colonialism/imperialism message ring hollow too.

I swear this ending was slapped toogether in a day because the writers can't decide what anything or anyone is. Are the monsters black people? Are the black people black people? If colonialism bad, then why are all the black people treated great in this movie? If war profiteering bad, then why are monsters seen constantly attacking ships unprovoked and the movie ends total isolationism and end of sea exploration?

The fact that normies seem to be in love with this movie is depressing if you care about animation as a medium.

 

[BetterFuckChuck]

View attachment 5026155

People forget that these shows are made by neurotic losers for petty, vindictive stunted adults who need their opinions validated by cartoons ostensibly made for children.

"You should talk through conflicts with 'fragile traditional values' - except when you shouldn't, because people who don't agree with you should be destroyed."

animation fans consume products for literal children, get mad at genuine auteurs like Paul Thomas Anderson, Alan Moore Scorsese, Tarantino, del Toro heck even MacFarlane, then wonder why no one takes them seriously as an art form

 

[Grumpy Pickle Rick]

We don't know this. We know what he told to people but not how he became to have those conversations outside of two exceptions. Grandma asked Brono about Mirabel witch resulted him running away and his remarks before weather aunt's wedding. These would indicate that there were both going on, him getting asked and him just giving out predictions on his own, but those both were special circumstances with close family members. So we simply don't have information how he was with the general public. Only how they took it, witch wasn't exactly positive.

If you are unintentionally unpleasant, unpleasant is what people are going to take on it. It's really that simple most of the time and you don't have to be social butterfly to have good social skills.

Brono is clearly portrayed as a kind wierdo who regularly manages make people uncomfortable. Him living in his family's walls for years and spying on them should tell everything about his ability recognize boundaries. He didn't mean anything bad by it but it's still very creepy. The fact the hearing chick didn't call him or family out on that despite fully knowing what's going on also indicates that he wasn't the most pleasant guy to interact with.

You’re an idiot.

1. That’s one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard.

2. The fact that you can’t remember most of the characters names and come up with these ridiculous statements, tells me you have a low attention span. And possibly autism.

 

[Amber the Hedgehog]

1. That’s one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard.

How come you can't then give me examples of where the people came to Brono to prove your theory? I pointed out what I saw and didn't see in the movie to why I came to different conclusion than you did.

2. The fact that you can’t remember most of the characters names and come up with these ridiculous statements, tells me you have a low attention span. And possibly autism.

Their names are unimportant because the characters aren't characters, they are place holders. They aren't memorable or unique personalities nor have chemistry because they are basically none entities outside of their family powers. Even the opening number just points our their powers and family relations because that's all they are for. Most family members show their power for few scenes and that's their contribution towards the story and the setting. So I call as I see them.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

anti whaling

I still don't get how this retarded moral came back to life in recent years. No one kills whales in western countries and I doubt the Japanese make a dent, any decrease is primarily because of habitat destruction by chinks and poos but god forbid you actually point a finger towards them.

 

[TVB]

The Busy World of Richard Scarry was a certified hood classic.

 

[gata]

So what I'm reading is that the new dreamworks movie is both ugly on visuals AND story? Hard pass then.

 

[Grumpy Pickle Rick]

How come you can't then give me examples of where the people came to Brono to prove your theory? I pointed out what I saw and didn't see in the movie to why I came to different conclusion than you did.

I didn’t have a theory, all I said was that they probably went to him.

That’s not a theory, that’s a hypothesis.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

So what I'm reading is that the new dreamworks movie is both ugly on visuals AND story? Hard pass then.

Which one are you refering to?

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

Which one are you refering to?

Ruby Gillman: Teenage Kraken.

 

[Chad Holdenford]

TIL there was an attempt to "adapt" the classic anime series Saint Seiya as a cartoon in Good Ol' Murrica.

I died of cringe and I don't want to be alone in this.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

Ruby Gillman: Teenage Kraken.

This studio once made The Prince of Egypt and Stallion of the Cimarron.

 

[Papa stink]

This studio once made The Prince of Egypt and Stallion of the Cimarron.

Dreamworks is pretty inconsistent when it comes to quality. They could put out a pretty solid movie and immediately follow it up with either the most mediocre film or a shitshow. Or produce whatever the Bee Movie was.

 

[starborn427614]

Dreamworks is pretty inconsistent when it comes to quality. They could put out a pretty solid movie and immediately follow it up with either the most mediocre film or a shitshow. Or produce whatever the Bee Movie was.

I was surprised the second Puss in Boots was as good as it was because of this.