Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

English language translations of Russian mat-heavy slang always makes me chuckle.

"Got a dick in the face and fucked back to the pigsty, and they ended up sucking dick like everytime" :story:

You really can't translate Russian into any other language, it loses a bit of its soul when you do.
 
The US media absolutely wanted to lose in Vietnam, especially once Nixon took over and started getting results. Why do you think Vietnam coverage was built on misery porn and "muh war crimes" while taking North Vietnamese talking points as fact? Remember that the entire journalist profession has been deep throating every communist since FDR, and the idea of the US vetoing a commie takeover of Vietnam by force of arms was repulsive to them- doubly so if it was done by that asshole Nixon #RememberAlgerHiss
The US media did not want to lose in Vietnam, they were the biggest cheerleaders and stenographers of the bullshit that the US Military was putting out, its only towards 1967-1968 that they started getting very cynical about the whole thing which started grinding the gears of hyper patriots like Walter Cronkite who fully believed the US government's statements on the war. Only when Tet kicked off did Cronkite decide that he couldn't just print what the government was saying and went to check out the country himself, quickly he found that the US government was full of shit and that the North Vietnamese position was actually ascendant rather than falling apart, completely contrary to his outlook on the war because he believed the US Generals. Going to Hue during the heaviest combat phase and seeing the total destruction of one of the most well preserved medieval cities in the world was enough to break his naive outlook, the US may have won all tactical victories but it certainly was not winning the strategic war since each offensive was leveling South Vietnamese cities.

I really can't believe we're at the revisionist stage of history where the boomer cope of "dehh if we really took the gloves off and the LYIN' rats in the media didn't stab us in the back we'd have won in Vie'nam!" is now the position people are moving towards. Vietnam was a directionless fuckup just like Afghanistan and Iraq.
 
I really can't believe we're at the revisionist stage of history where the boomer cope of "dehh if we really took the gloves off and the LYIN' rats in the media didn't stab us in the back we'd have won in Vie'nam!" is now the position people are moving towards. Vietnam was a directionless fuckup just like Afghanistan and Iraq.
If only they'd let us use the nukes like we did with the nips!
 
English language translations of Russian mat-heavy slang always makes me chuckle.

"Got a dick in the face and fucked back to the pigsty, and they ended up sucking dick like everytime" :story:

You really can't translate Russian into any other language, it loses a bit of its soul when you do.
My wife was just trying to tell me something her father told her in regards to an important appointment we have coming up. In trying to take it from Russian she said "you should shit more than you need to.... Umm... Basically you should be better prepared rather than less prepared".

Russian English is best English.
 
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lol
 
The US media did not want to lose in Vietnam, they were the biggest cheerleaders and stenographers of the bullshit that the US Military was putting out, its only towards 1967-1968 that they started getting very cynical about the whole thing which started grinding the gears of hyper patriots like Walter Cronkite who fully believed the US government's statements on the war. Only when Tet kicked off did Cronkite decide that he couldn't just print what the government was saying and went to check out the country himself, quickly he found that the US government was full of shit and that the North Vietnamese position was actually ascendant rather than falling apart, completely contrary to his outlook on the war because he believed the US Generals. Going to Hue during the heaviest combat phase and seeing the total destruction of one of the most well preserved medieval cities in the world was enough to break his naive outlook, the US may have won all tactical victories but it certainly was not winning the strategic war since each offensive was leveling South Vietnamese cities.
Tet, the offensive that achieved nothing and destroyed the Viet Kong as a fighting force? That Tet?

If you actually believed that Cronkite, a Communist one-worlder had some kind of crisis of consince over what was, in operational terms, a success that he went on air and shit all over America's efforts, I have a bridge to sell you.

I really can't believe we're at the revisionist stage of history where the boomer cope of "dehh if we really took the gloves off and the LYIN' rats in the media didn't stab us in the back we'd have won in Vie'nam!" is now the position people are moving towards. Vietnam was a directionless fuckup just like Afghanistan and Iraq.
Let me guess, the Paris Peace Accords, Vietnamization, Nixon winning more than 40 states in '72, and Congress zeroing out the south's military support budget are "boomer cope" too, not things that actually happened that don't get remarked on because they massively recontextualize the fall of the south and our role in it.

If you have this much trouble believing that actual events were much less cut and dried than Hollywood likes to tell you, I think you'd be more at home in the other thread.
 
If only they'd let us use the nukes like we did with the nips!
Uh like, have you seen how many ships and planes and tanks the US had? If they had just taken all of those and put them in south vietnam then they could've steamrolled the north! It was just those dang dirty hippies that kept it from happening.......... What do you mean the USA had obligations outside of SE asia?!?!?!
Tet, the offensive that achieved nothing and destroyed the Viet Kong as a fighting force? That Tet?
Viet Kong =/= North Vietnam
 
If you have this much trouble believing that actual events were much less cut and dried than Hollywood likes to tell you, I think you'd be more at home in the other thread.
Lmao here we go with the boomer revisionist. Guess what.
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Not only did the US lose in Vietnam, it lost the entire region to Communist forces. The US government was, and will remain delusional because it thinks it can project halfway around the world into some regional powers back yard with the belief it won't be thrown out by force. Cringe cope about "dehh we killed 2198317312398129 enemies and lost 1 guy to diarrhea!" does not matter, the war was lost, and the US had to flee by helicopter because the whole thing crashed down so fast. Not just once in Vietnam, but in Afghanistan in almost an exact same manner, literally using the same equipment from the Fall of Saigon.

What do we see as a result of our efforts in the GWOT? Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Yemen and a bunch of other states in the area burying the hatchet and aligning themselves against the US. Libya only remains in a state of stalemate because Turkey lunged in at the last minute to prop up the NATO puppet, the moment they leave the Gaddafi successor government is going to wrap up the NATO puppet. Everywhere nations are shaking off the US torture session and forming blocs in opposition. No amount of sperging about low casualties and "media betrayal" is going to prevent this, the US sowed a lot of dark energy during the Bush, Obama and Biden years and the effects of it are coming around quite quickly.
 
Lmao here we go with the boomer revisionist. Guess what.
View attachment 5068325

Not only did the US lose in Vietnam, it lost the entire region to Communist forces. The US government was, and will remain delusional because it thinks it can project halfway around the world into some regional powers back yard with the belief it won't be thrown out by force. Cringe cope about "dehh we killed 2198317312398129 enemies and lost 1 guy to diarrhea!" does not matter, the war was lost, and the US had to flee by helicopter because the whole thing crashed down so fast. Not just once in Vietnam, but in Afghanistan in almost an exact same manner, literally using the same equipment from the Fall of Saigon.

What do we see as a result of our efforts in the GWOT? Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Yemen and a bunch of other states in the area burying the hatchet and aligning themselves against the US. Libya only remains in a state of stalemate because Turkey lunged in at the last minute to prop up the NATO puppet, the moment they leave the Gaddafi successor government is going to wrap up the NATO puppet. Everywhere nations are shaking off the US torture session and forming blocs in opposition. No amount of sperging about low casualties and "media betrayal" is going to prevent this, the US sowed a lot of dark energy during the Bush, Obama and Biden years and the effects of it are coming around quite quickly.
Me: "the US lost Vietnam because of the perfidiousness of our ruling class and media (BIRM.)"

You: "haha, cope harder boomer, I know you don't get this but the US lost! Seethe, cope and dilate about the fact that you can't handle the perfidiousness of the ruling class!"

We don't disagree about what happened, only why- and it's not really a disagreement, just you sperging out about how media betrayal is obviously wrong because something something boomer and recompiling facts were already familiar with as if it's some kind of own.

It's kind of funny when you think about it, considering that the execution picture is the 70s version of Derek Chauvin- the man about to be shot was an infiltrator who'd just murdered a policeman and his family, but the media excluded those details in order to simp for the North. Likewise, you claim that it fell apart "just like Afghanistan" when your own image shows a two-year gap between US withdrawal and the fall of Saigon.

Almost like there were other factors at play that aren't placed front and center by the famously non-biased Wikipedia.

And you're right, the US has been burning credibility like there's no tomorrow, because for most of our senile gerentocracy, there isn't. It's why de-dollarization is happening, why China is playing chicken around Taiwan, and why much of the global south is hedging their bets. Decades of failure, now brought to a head by failed sanctions against Russia, are making people realize that the "indispensable nation" may in fact be dispensable, and dispensing with them means dispensing with their faggot tranny shit as a nice bonus.
 
Me: "the US lost Vietnam because of the perfidiousness of our ruling class and media (BIRM.)"
The only perfidiousness in the Vietnam War by the ruling class and media was allowing the US to enter the conflict to begin with in the first place. Had Anti-War protests not been so intense -- to the point that there was an increasing fear of revolution, or civic break down, as the amount of bombing, assassinations, and general discord was escalating rapidly; the US would still be dawdling around with a few tiny pockets we'd claim were the sovereign government of South Vietnam, little more than what was directly visible.
 
Lmao here we go with the boomer revisionist. Guess what.
View attachment 5068325

Not only did the US lose in Vietnam, it lost the entire region to Communist forces. The US government was, and will remain delusional because it thinks it can project halfway around the world into some regional powers back yard with the belief it won't be thrown out by force. Cringe cope about "dehh we killed 2198317312398129 enemies and lost 1 guy to diarrhea!" does not matter, the war was lost, and the US had to flee by helicopter because the whole thing crashed down so fast. Not just once in Vietnam, but in Afghanistan in almost an exact same manner, literally using the same equipment from the Fall of Saigon.

What do we see as a result of our efforts in the GWOT? Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Yemen and a bunch of other states in the area burying the hatchet and aligning themselves against the US. Libya only remains in a state of stalemate because Turkey lunged in at the last minute to prop up the NATO puppet, the moment they leave the Gaddafi successor government is going to wrap up the NATO puppet. Everywhere nations are shaking off the US torture session and forming blocs in opposition. No amount of sperging about low casualties and "media betrayal" is going to prevent this, the US sowed a lot of dark energy during the Bush, Obama and Biden years and the effects of it are coming around quite quickly.
I think another thing I find interesting about this is how the US defeat in Afghanistan was really worse than it was in Vietnam in a great many ways. This in spite of the fact that the Taliban didn't really have any tech or resources better than the Viet Cong, but US tech and resources certainly got better since Vietnam. Likewise, the overall situation was far more favorable to the Viet Cong for the most part than it was with the Taliban with other major powers putting their fingers on the scale in favor of the Viet Cong.

It shows that the US military has largely declined since then. Basically the opposition to US expansionism did more with less whereas the US did less despite having more. Personally, I think this is as a result of several factors on the US side.

  1. The US is more and more relying on tech to solve problems that stem from bad tactics
  2. Using casualty figures to determine success rather than completion of objectives
  3. The training quality is getting worse with training particularly for infantry being now almost entirely either check in the box training, or pointless smoke fests where soldiers learn nothing. There's never any attempt made to slowly grow soldiers in proficiency levels or expand their abilities beyond some arbitrary standard.
  4. Ever expanding bureaucracy is preventing any and all practical reforms
  5. Lopsided spending on air assets that don't contribute much to force multipliers on the ground which is ultimately where wars are won
  6. Outright bad training practices. You shouldn't be telling OPFOR to "just play dead when they flank you." An army needs to train against a living and thinking enemy that has a desire to win.
  7. Too many leaders. You just don't need 4pls, an XO, and a CO, plus their NCO counterparts for a company sized element.
  8. Too POG heavy and getting worse. I've talked before about the entropic system where POGs spend most of their time providing support for other POGs and do very little for actual combat elements that are running missions. You just can't have that. It's like trying to fight a war with an anchor tied around your neck because you might need it at some point.
  9. This is largely a result of point 6, but there's basically no selectivity for leadership. Even the greatest militaries in history have preformed horribly due to bad leadership.
  10. Bad practices in top level leaders managing lower level leaders. If you're a platoon leader, it's legit better for your career to make a horrible decision that conforms with doctrine than it is to make a great decision that deviates from doctrine. This relates heavily to point 8. Because of the lack of selectivity in leadership, higher command can't trust the decision making of lower level leadership which leads to completely pointless leadership. You might as well just pin a couple of silver bars on a realistic sex doll with voice functionality and have it scream "SI CHECK!" over and over.
  11. Ignoring the problems of bad morale, low retention rates, and high rates of general disillusion. These are things which will tear an army to shreds before the first shot has been fired.
  12. Military independence from civilian politics. An effective commander should be obsessed with achieving military victory and should have very little interests in civilian politics.
  13. At all levels, from the brand new PVT to even the highest level commanders, just flat out bad discipline. I could sperg on this for a while, but the higher your rank, the more dicked up you're allowed to be. This in turn causes the younger generation of soldiers to be undisciplined and apathetic no matter how much or how harshly they're disciplined. A great quote from The Art of War on this.
If soldiers are punished before they have grown attached to you, they will not prove submissive; and, unless submissive, then will be practically useless. If, when the soldiers have become attached to you, punishments are not enforced, they will still be unless.

Therefore soldiers must be treated in the first instance with humanity, but kept under control by means of iron discipline. This is a certain road to victory.

If in training soldiers commands are habitually enforced, the army will be well-disciplined; if not, its discipline will be bad.

If a general shows confidence in his men but always insists on his orders being obeyed, the gain will be mutual.

A lot of these problems are things which have been endemic to the US military for a long time, but are problems which will just keep getting worse and worse.
 
My wife was just trying to tell me something her father told her in regards to an important appointment we have coming up. In trying to take it from Russian she said "you should shit more than you need to.... Umm... Basically you should be better prepared rather than less prepared".

Russian English is best English.
Sometimes when I don't feel like taking the time to read everything or I do and just don't get it I'll use a translation app and the result is fucking hilarious, despite often not even translating correctly. Even when Russians speak perfect English it sort of creeps in, like when I once asked "How goes it?" the reply is "Terrible. Everything is pizdec". I don't think they grasp how hilarious, and cute it is because they think we're laughing at their language skills (we're not). Really spices up a convo.
We don't disagree about what happened, only why- and it's not really a disagreement, just you sperging out about how media betrayal is obviously wrong because something something boomer and recompiling facts were already familiar with as if it's some kind of own.

It's kind of funny when you think about it, considering that the execution picture is the 70s version of Derek Chauvin- the man about to be shot was an infiltrator who'd just murdered a policeman and his family, but the media excluded those details in order to simp for the North. Likewise, you claim that it fell apart "just like Afghanistan" when your own image shows a two-year gap between US withdrawal and the fall of Saigon.
The issue isn't whether we won or lost in Southeast Asia (we did), the issue is how the American people get conned into supporting military actions under the guise of national security, because it threatens us directly and end up paying for it with, often with their lives or their children's lives. None of the military actions the US engaged in during the last sixty years, from Korea to Vietnam to Iran, to Lebanon to Grenada to Central America to Africa to Iraq and Afghanistan and now Eastern Europe/Ukraine were to the benefit of the American people as a whole. These actions only benefit the MIC and our grifting politicians, as well as the desire of America to be an Empire. It's distasteful to come out and say so it's cloaked in anti-Communism or pro-Democracy (although some openly declare their love of American Hegemony, as if using big words hides what it really is).

Losing isn't the problem, because winning isn't the goal, its the continuation and furtherance of America's oligarchy at the expense of everyone else, be they a rice farmer in Asia or a corn farmer in Iowa. They didn't lose, they won because Southeast Asia, as well as the rest of Asia, was left bereft of power. Take consolation that in their greed (by dismantling America's manufacturing and moving it to China) America's rulers inadvertently allowed China to become not only a regional power but now a world leader as well.

Imagine the meltdowns in the Beltway upon hearing China and Russia made up and are BFF now. That is their worst nightmare.
 
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The issue isn't whether we won or lost in Southeast Asia (we did), the issue is how the American people get conned into supporting military actions under the guise of national security, because it threatens us directly and end up paying for it with, often with their lives or their children's lives. None of the military actions the US engaged in during the last sixty years, from Korea to Vietnam to Iran to, to Lebanon to Grenada to Central America to Africa to Iraq and Afghanistan and now Eastern Europe/Ukraine were to the benefit of the American people as a whole. These actions only benefit the MIC and our grifting politicians, as well as the desire of America to be an Empire. It's distasteful to come out and say so it's cloaked in anti-Communism or pro-Democracy (although some openly declare their love of American Hegemony, as if using big words hides what it really is).

Losing isn't the problem, because winning isn't the goal, its the continuation and furtherance of America's oligarchy at the expense of everyone else, be they a rice farmer in Asia or a corn farmer in Iowa. They didn't lose, they won because Southeast Asia, as well as the rest of Asia, was left bereft of power. Take consolation that in their greed (by dismantling America's manufacturing and moving it to China) America's rulers inadvertently allowed China to become not only a regional power but now a world leader as well.

Imagine the meltdowns in the Beltway upon hearing China and Russia made up and are BFF now. That is their worst nightmare.

Pretty much this. I got major shit going on so I'm going to disappear for a time. So this'll be my last post for at least a week.

The greed of our billionaires pushed China into World Power status, pushed Russia into China's arms (who fucking HATED each other btw, they were never friends, the US did that) and now because of that, we can no longer use our primary 'diplomatic tactic' - our army and our intelligence agencies. Because all of our assets in China are eliminated and now with Russia and China united, its impossible to hit one without the other.

This is why it is ends of empire for the US. We have destroyed all goodwill we have built up, by our corporations and demands, by our greed, we've empowered China, to wit we can no longer control them. And good. Its time for the dollar as a reserve currency, global capitalism, and the American empire, to fucking die in its own shit. Only then will we be able to be free.
 
I'm still amazed at how useless the IAEA inspection of the Zaporozhye NPP was

On wet dreams of Russia's collapse from a mobilized Bashkir

Groups of children are interviewed
Which will happen first Zaporozhye Powerplant blows up or Ukie counter offensive make your choice and believe in 2 more weeks. In seriousness though this would be somewhat concerning had they not gone and been like "Its gonna blow" 20 times already
 
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