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Indiana Jones & the Dial of Destiny - Using time travel to literally retcon the series
- Thread starter SteelPlatedHeart
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Sumptinsfuckey
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That's how I always interperted it. Young, but college age young, not pigtails, teddy bears, and braces young.
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it's possible to rape something twice
this "A sucks but B is worse, so A is actually good and everyone who said it was bad was wrong" mentality is really, really retarded
this "A sucks but B is worse, so A is actually good and everyone who said it was bad was wrong" mentality is really, really retarded
Screamer_2
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What do you mean now? The last Star Wars movie did that, as well as countless other films.
Plus Pedowood (and not just Disney) wants to make everything more like Marvel with the same absolute bullshit.
Ensok
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I'm admittedly a sucker for Temple of Doom, I really like it. Even though I fucking hate Indian people I still really like Indy rescuing the child slaves and reuniting them with their parents at the end. That's top feel good happy ending stuff. It isn't as good as Raiders or Crusade but it's a good movie and I still appreciate it for having a different tone and not also revolving around Christianity and Nazis.
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I love the shot of Indy kissing Willie while the children crowd around them. Triumphant moment.
I think I've said in this thread already that every movie has something different to offer, and I love all three and don't know what my favorite is. I do appreciate Crusade having a lighter tone after Temple. It's like the trilogy ends with a dessert after a heavy meal. More series could do with lighthearted endings, honestly.
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Found it: https://www.getty.edu/conservation/.../newsletters/33_1/endangered_archaeology.html
Admittedly a decent chunk of it is also a lack of interest in digs, but a combination of that relative lack of interest, Colonial fuckery, regional instability, wars, and population growth is really fucking up that region's potential sites.
As for my thoughts on Crystal Skull... I consider it a flawed and sort of bad movie. I'd argue it's a bit more watchable than say Phantom Menace, but its biggest flaws were it tried to both do a 50s sci-fi film AND be an Indy film, when it should've been an Indy film with aliens. That Lucas had the theme be crystal skulls didn't entirely help IMO, since those were absolute fraud and only one wasn't debunked by that point due to the asshole owning it being real cagey about letting people investigate it and it was the one thing they got money from.
Like Indy finding aliens? Weird but easily doable given Raiders and Temple of Doom. But tbh I'd have gone with the angle that it was the search for El Dorado and not those skulls, and you find out that the chief creation deity called either Viracocha by the Incans, or Chiminigagua by the Muisca was an alien who survived the crash and aided them for helping him. Just make it simple by having a very unscrupulous treasure hunter as the bad guy (have it be Mac, why not), and it'd have worked out fine. Especially if you have Harrison be a bit more like how Connery was in Last Crusade, since he can't quite do physicality as well at that point.
But at the end of the day it was a somewhat unfocused mess made by a writer who didn't really have many to question him, and a director who didn't want to make a fourth movie anyway. It had heart at least, which is a shitload more than I can say about this one, which had the BBC describe it as "A miserable and broken old man being mocked by his unlikeable goddaughter".
From the fact the ending was reshot I strongly believe that they originally were insane enough to actually erase Indy, but somehow they realized just how suicidal a move that would've been and tried to blunt the blow.
I really don't get where people think Kathy can run anything; her independent projects have as of right now always came in overbudget due to her stepping in and forcing mass reshoots.
Also I love how the film is so horrid that even the positive reviews have to admit the first two acts sucked and were boring and miserable.
Well yea, Crystal Skull is a better movie than Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones in terms of entertainment value. That said, it's very distracting as it's more or less of an actual third Tomb Raider movie than an actual Indy movie.
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They should rename LucasFilm to ReshootFilm, that's all they do
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- Apr 12, 2021
It's been their MO pretty much since the Disney buyout. Big studio films in general are really hard to gauge as being real films. Since they're mostly made by committee and not by an individual. But, it's especially bad with Disney due to how heavy-handed producers and the studio are and their sheer output of content. Not art. Not films. Not anything other than content to fill a theatrical release slot or drive subscribers to Disney+.
>Rogue One
Reshot about half the movie according to various industry folks. It's common for stuff from trailers to not be in the finished product, but that first trailer in particular has a lotta stuff that isn't in the final cut. About half the movie was reshot, including most of the second half of the film. Gareth Edwards, the credited director, voiced a bit of dissatisfaction if I'm not mistaken.
>Solo: A Star Wars Story
Probably the most extreme example, since they fired the initial directors and pretty much reshot it from scratch. Not sure which version would've been better. But, the result we got was pretty boring. Lifeless colors and cinematography, annoying side characters and just a very by the books origin story for Han. Ron Howard was credited as the director, but judging from how lifeless it feels, I'm pretty sure he just took a backseat here.
>The Rise of Skywalker
A big ol' mess of a production. By their own admission, it was an attempt at a course correction. Since they really didn't have a plan for their trilogy. Reshots, rewrites... The whole works here. A messy end to a messy trilogy and a shining example about how valuable the pre-planning process is.
>Dial of Destiny
Already been covered, but mentioned to be comprehensive. Very publicly bad test screenings, the director melting down at randos on Twitter and negative buzz pretty much from the get-go. Williams himself said they shot a new ending after the test screenings. Early reviews are not so good. With even shill outlets like IGN trashing the movie.
I didn't mention the first two entries of the sequel trilogy because, for the most part, they were released without much interference. For whatever reason, Rian Johnson's movie was all him. Which is nuts that he of all people has more studio pull than Ron Howard and whatnot. But, I dunno. He probably just gives good head or something. Even most of their streaming stuff seems to have some reshoot stories and messy production details.
It's easy to tell that these movies don't really benefit from too much studio interference. With the exception of Solo, all the movies did well at the box office. But, everything's sorta trended downwards. Everything after The Force Awakens has made less and less. Still making money, but not making that Avengers Endgame money. And generally you want sequels to do better at the box office. But, so long as Funko-loving, dog parent, betamax retards will continue to consoom, they'll keep doing it.
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I don't see how crystal skulls are any worse than the Ark of the Covenant or the Holy Grail, I guess other than not tying to a religious theme. It's still very much an archeological theme, and even if they're fake, they're still a famous artifact. The aliens kind of did come out of nowhere though.
IIIRC it was supposed to have more comedic, which presumably would've made the awkward dialogue and stupid side characters actually work. Like you noted, it's pretty directionless.
Matt Damon
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It's fueled by faggot zoomers and late millennials who enjoyed shit films as kids and are trying desperately to rationalize it as not-shit after the fact.
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Yeah. "Farcical" was a word that one insider used. Apparently too comedic for execs.
Serbian Peacekeepers
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I'd add The Force Awakens to FatMebius' list.
There's no god damned way on this planet or any other that there isn't a lot edited out and/or and the only way we'll ever know for sure is when John Boyega stops giving a fuck and spilling on his death bed.
That shit was so incoherent. Like, I get JJ Abrams likes his mystery boxes, but there's a difference between that and basically saying, "I'm going to leave loose threads everywhere and pretend that you're going to care about all of them."
Of course, The Last Jedi had probably god damned nothing critically re-shot because I honestly think Rian Johnson was Kathleen Kennedy's darling and she thought everything he did was genius. If that's true, it explains a fuck-ton of things about Lucasfilm post-Disney.
Screamer_2
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It's fascinating because the behind the scenes stuff for TLJ really is focused in on it being Rian's film. It's all about delivering his vision. While they say production was smooth, that wasn't really the case. Production was delayed for much needed rewrites. Which was because Finn and Poe went to Canto. Rose and Holdo were these last minute rewrites, so the original film was with out them. This facilitated shit like Leia Poppins. Then as these were all last minute, what was originally shot wasn't good and so both characters featured rewrites and reshoots. Production was a mess.
There's other hints of issues, the whole Crait sequence makes little sense. Remains of the Rebels. Then the battle appears to be a full rebel base, before back to being the last few. Either carelessness or the context of the battle was changed.
The behind the scenes footage of the Luke Leia scene suggests Luke's part was rewritten and reshoot. When you watch that and the final scene it's apparent.
Then when it comes to TFA. They have stated that when the production stopped because of Harrison's injury. They reviewed the footage and the film. Course corrected a lot because they could see what wasn't working and what it needed. So they probably basically rewrote and reshoot a lot of what they had shot. There's also some pretty good suggestions out there that the entire third act was a late addition with Star Killer.
Like with changes made to TLJ. These are things added kind of independently of the larger film. Don't really gel. They just invoke logic and plot shit that is dumb as it's on the fly.
WhiskeyJack
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I think the fourth Indy film should've focused on recreating the Fate of Atlantis game instead of diving into some new adventure. Having the film revolve around crystal skulls was a major misstep, and besides, the Billy Zane "The Phantom" film in the early 90's handled the crystal skulls a lot better. Crystal skulls just feel like a minor side adventure, like finding some random golden idol or the cross of Coronado. Not something to carry a whole film on.
There's a pretty clear arc to the original trilogy, with the Ark of the Covenant and the Holy Grail specifically being the, well, holy grails of archeology. They're both very famous lost artifacts, and finding either would be the pinnacle of an archeologist's career. The only thing left that's both famous enough to be worth a film and fitting with Indy's semi-religious awakening to legends/myths being real is finding out that Atlantis actually existed. It'd be easy enough to incorporate some sort of alien-angle to that, even if only heavily implied. The game hinted at that, iirc, and at least one of the other games had Indy meet a literal inter-dimensional alien being posing as a Mesopotamian God (not Gozer, though) with the same psychic character from the Atlantis game helping him. Obviously at least some elements of the games were carried over into the 4th film, (and judging by the trailer, the 5th film lifts some visuals from the Atlantis game as well) they could've easily gone all the way with it.
Or pull off a Journey Man Project 3, and have Atlantis, El Dorado, and Shangri La all the focus of some epic final quest where Indy travels the globe to locate pieces of some missing artifact (which in JMP3 turned out to be an alien artifact called the Legacy of Time, a sort of dial-like device that allows for travel through time and was broken into pieces millennia ago and hidden around the world, and... oh, wait.)
There's a pretty clear arc to the original trilogy, with the Ark of the Covenant and the Holy Grail specifically being the, well, holy grails of archeology. They're both very famous lost artifacts, and finding either would be the pinnacle of an archeologist's career. The only thing left that's both famous enough to be worth a film and fitting with Indy's semi-religious awakening to legends/myths being real is finding out that Atlantis actually existed. It'd be easy enough to incorporate some sort of alien-angle to that, even if only heavily implied. The game hinted at that, iirc, and at least one of the other games had Indy meet a literal inter-dimensional alien being posing as a Mesopotamian God (not Gozer, though) with the same psychic character from the Atlantis game helping him. Obviously at least some elements of the games were carried over into the 4th film, (and judging by the trailer, the 5th film lifts some visuals from the Atlantis game as well) they could've easily gone all the way with it.
Or pull off a Journey Man Project 3, and have Atlantis, El Dorado, and Shangri La all the focus of some epic final quest where Indy travels the globe to locate pieces of some missing artifact (which in JMP3 turned out to be an alien artifact called the Legacy of Time, a sort of dial-like device that allows for travel through time and was broken into pieces millennia ago and hidden around the world, and... oh, wait.)
Pokemon Conquistador
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One reason I root for Deepfake technology: to see what future fan film makers come up with in this universe. Sure, there will be lots of bad stuff, but at least most of it will be made in a spirit of love and reverence. I'd rather watch a bad movie that was earnest in its intentions, than watch a big budget, fantastically made film that shits all over the lore and fans.
Heh, those are nothing. When Lucas sold his company to Disney, they were too busy picking their nose than thinking of original ideas. So if anything, they should rename themselves to Mucus Film.