Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Gog & Magog]

Just seems stupidly hypocritical to insist that Russia stop calling a war a "military operation", when that's been the defacto rule in the West for all military conflicts since WWII. The US will never go to war again, officially. If we ever send troops into Ukraine to fight Russia, we'll just call it Operation Blazing Freedom or something stupid like that.

Hypocritical of whom? When was the last time anyone denied all this shit here

Probably the same day the US Congress declares the 1)Korean Police Action, 2)Vietnam Conflict, 3)Operation Power Pack, 4)Operation Urgent Fury, 5)Operation Praying Mantis, 6)Operation Just Cause, 7)Operation Desert Shield/Operation Desert Storm, 8 )Somalia Intervention, 9)Operation Praying Mantis, 10)Operation Urgent Fury, 11)Opera Operation Desert Shield/Desert Storm, 12)Operation Allied Force, 13)Operation Enduring Freedom, 14)Operation Iraqi Freedom, 15)Operation Odyssey Dawn/Operation Unified Protector, 16)Operation Freedom's Sentinel, and 17)Operation Inherent Resolve, were all "a war".

as wars? I didn't criticize the Russian government for refusing to call it a war. I see nothing wrong with a government being careful around its own legal fiction. I merely make fun of the Kremlin for criminalizing speech that endangers nobody. It is insane. Its as absurd as Germany selectively criminalizing the denial of Russian war crimes but not the denial of war crimes of allies like Turkey. (It is crazy they do this at all and if they cannot even pretend to be consistent then the law means less than nothing.)
@moocow I know. Both parties have an interest in preserving the status quo of no more official wars. Americans would become more careful if declaring war required Congress do more than nod at the President. Then again even if they did officially order it themselves they'd still come up with ways to pass certain difficult congressional responsibilities onto the executive.

 

[Dammit Mandrake!]

Ukrainian Summer Offensive | Comprehensive Analysis​

https://ghostarchive.org/varchive/9Ag9iwCEINM

In other news, our friends in Roskomnadzor have unbanned us. Kiwi Farms is once again approved by the Russian Federation. You can never stop the Null, the Kiwi Might everlasting!

Wait did I miss the Spring offensive?

Defending South Korea against Northern and Chinese communists was criminal? I get calling the 2003 Iraq war or even Vietnam criminal, but Korea?

The only criminal act committed during the Korean War was the firing of MacArthur. He was right about everything.

 

[SIMIΔN]

The only criminal act committed during the Korean War was the firing of MacArthur. He was right about everything.

He could have made the war unwinnable for China, leading to an early peace and a prosperous and united Korean peninsular.
Problem is, he'd have normalised atomic weapons as a tactical option, with potentially horrific consequences.

 

[Dammit Mandrake!]

Problem is, he'd have normalised atomic weapons as a tactical option, with potentially horrific consequences.

Die fast or die slow, you're still dead in the end.

 

[Useful_Mistake]

Wait did I miss the Spring offensive?

Ukraine forgot to do it in Spring

 

[Fatniggo1488]

It is kind of funny. If Ukraine had of simply done a fighting withdrawal out of Bakhmut, they likely could have actually had a somewhat effective counter attack in other areas. Instead they sent thousands of troops to their deaths against one of the most combat capable units Russia has.

 

[Dammit Mandrake!]

It is kind of funny. If Ukraine had of simply done a fighting withdrawal out of Bakhmut, they likely could have actually had a somewhat effective counter attack in other areas. Instead they sent thousands of troops to their deaths against one of the most combat capable units Russia has.

It's okay because those were garbage troops anyway that's what the news said so Ukraine doesn't need to worry because the super soldiers are elsewhere and not at the front...

... wait.

Hey where is Zelensky has anyone seen him I have some questions?

 

[make_it_so]

So the latest I heard was that they are going for it in early July

 

[Michael Wade]

The worst thing those morons could have done is attack moscow with drones. They have no idea what they've unleashed.

I really wonder who the hell thought that was a good idea, US? Brits? nazi bros? Doesn't really matter I suppose. I know why they did it. There hasn't been much "good news" to put up and they needed something to rally the propaganda around. But the gloves are off and they are not coming back on.

See up until now the Russians were mostly trying to play by the rules. It was little things like letting Biden know when he could come over for propaganda tea time or not immediately killing Zelensky when they had the chance. I mean the whole reason they got beat up in the beginning is because they tried to make the invasion a limited surgical strike when it should have been a fast, blunt, hammer blow. But they learn quick enough.

Everything is on the table now. Ukraine has been labeled as a terror state and you better believe Russia means what it says. Going forward they will kill every single person in authority they can get their hands on. EVERYONE from every fucking side. Brits operatives look likely because of the shit their government is pulling with supporting the attacks and making the dam drones.

USA needs to back off and realize the goose is cooked because there's no winning this. I dont even think there's the mere possibility to split the nation in two anymore. It's all or nuke nothing.

 

[Desu Mountain]

Ukraine has been labeled as a terror state

Is this an official thing Russia has done?

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

Instead they sent thousands of troops to their deaths against one of the most combat capable units Russia has.

It wasn't even that, they sent them directly into the line of massive non-stop ranged artillery fire. If a war crime against your own side were a thing that would be it. They murdered tens of thousands of their own troops. For nothing.

 

[Michael Wade]

Is this an official thing Russia has done?

Having difficulty finding where I saw it, but Putin has called it a terrorist action. Regardless this is a level of provocation that's not going to be tolerated and will make Russia stand up.

Ive seen reports the Russians are gearing up for massive decapitation strike

 

[Anasûrimbor Kellhus]

The worst thing those morons could have done is attack moscow with drones. They have no idea what they've unleashed.

I really wonder who the hell thought that was a good idea, US? Brits? nazi bros? Doesn't really matter I suppose. I know why they did it. There hasn't been much "good news" to put up and they needed something to rally the propaganda around. But the gloves are off and they are not coming back on.

See up until now the Russians were mostly trying to play by the rules. It was little things like letting Biden know when he could come over for propaganda tea time or not immediately killing Zelensky when they had the chance. I mean the whole reason they got beat up in the beginning is because they tried to make the invasion a limited surgical strike when it should have been a fast, blunt, hammer blow. But they learn quick enough.

Everything is on the table now. Ukraine has been labeled as a terror state and you better believe Russia means what it says. Going forward they will kill every single person in authority they can get their hands on. EVERYONE from every fucking side. Brits operatives look likely because of the shit their government is pulling with supporting the attacks and making the dam drones.

USA needs to back off and realize the goose is cooked because there's no winning this. I dont even think there's the mere possibility to split the nation in two anymore. It's all or nuke nothing.

A little curious, what exactly is the escalation caused by this Ukraine drone of moscow? Hasn't russia struck Kiev multiple times over the last few months, or was this strike something unprecedented in the conflict that that Russia had no equivalent for so far? Maybe I'm retarded but I'm genuinely a little confused to why this is being seen as significant escalation as my friend actually was asking me questions about it earlier and I still feel I'm missing something.

 

[Michael Wade]

A little curious, what exactly is the escalation caused by this Ukraine drone of moscow? Hasn't russia struck Kiev multiple times over the last few months, or was this strike something unprecedented in the conflict that that Russia had no equivalent for so far? Maybe I'm retarded but I'm genuinely a little confused to why this is being seen as significant escalation as my friend actually was asking me questions about it earlier and I still feel I'm missing something.

It's more of a cumulative effect, as they tried to kill Putin earlier in April with drones https://www.npr.org/2023/05/03/1173...mlin-drone-attack-putin-assassination-attempt

and not too long ago they sent in a bunch of Ukrainian dumbasses on a suicide mission into the borders of Russia. There's apparently footage of them killing' an unarmed border guard and driving around with American vehicles before getting destroyed.

Contrary to what they say, Russia hasn't been targeting civilians on purpose and this repeated violation is not going to be taken lightly.

 

[kartofel]

Did you reply to the wrong post?

I see why they do things this way. If I were the President of US I would prefer to keep my options as open as possible. Gives lots of flexibility for both the legislative and executive branches. I also think legal fiction make no difference when in practice the thing is still treated the same although I understand where you are coming from.

Defending South Korea against Northern and Chinese communists was criminal? I get calling the 2003 Iraq war or even Vietnam criminal, but Korea? I know this thread is in "defend invaders unless its the West / America " but really? Focusing on NATO's cynical motives in Ukraine can coexist with believing nations should not be invaded by North Koreans or Chinese.

What were those dastardly Koreans thinking, invading Korea like that!

North and South Korea are both unnatural states. This was especially true when the Korean war went down and the two hadn't diverged much culturally yet. Both sides wanted to reunify the country under their respective system. Acting like the North Koreans were some kind of invaders for wanting to do what pretty much all Koreans at the time wanted to do is disingenuous. This has really only changed with the older generations on both sides dying out and the increased cultural and economic disparities between the two. Now both sides pay lip service to the idea of reunification, but the governments are aware that it would be a clusterfuck to actually implement.

As to America, yes, I actually would rather we had either declared war on North Korea or gtfo. The entire reason congress has the power to declare war is to make it difficult for the government to start and conduct a war that doesn't have broad popular support. If defending our allies in South Korea was worth it, declaring war on North Korea should have been a simple task. Refusal to do so was moral cowardice and a sign that the government was drifting away from being the American people's representatives to being their masters. It is one of the root causes of the present dysfunction in America, where the populace has consistently tried to change course for decades now, but every effort is frustrated by the ruling class. You can see this dynamic in the Ukraine war. The US government is steadily inching us towards nuclear war to guard the borders of a country on the other side of the planet from us, that most of the population probably still can't find on a map, while steadily ignoring the massive crisis on our own border that multiple administrations have been elected promising to fix. I don't care if Putin conquers the Ukraine. I do care that my country is rapidly becoming a shithole because the government is refusing to perform basic governmental responsibilities while wasting my tax dollars playing empire on the other side of the world.

 

[There Is Light At The End]

So, there's a drone strike in Moskva? Curious what were they trying to achieve there?

 

[Feline Supremacist]

A little curious, what exactly is the escalation caused by this Ukraine drone of moscow? Hasn't russia struck Kiev multiple times over the last few months, or was this strike something unprecedented in the conflict that that Russia had no equivalent for so far? Maybe I'm retarded but I'm genuinely a little confused to why this is being seen as significant escalation as my friend actually was asking me questions about it earlier and I still feel I'm missing something.

To add to what @Michael Wade posted they also have to answer to their own people, who are calling for Shoigu's and Gerasimov's heads on pikes (and being Slavs they actually mean it, its not hyperbole). Putin is well aware they'll be demanding his head next if there's no overwhelming response.

Don't forget there are plenty of Ukrainians all over the country that consider themselves Russian, or at the very least part of the Русский мир, the Russian World. They are likely begging any relatives/friends in Russia to please do something to rid them of these delusional and homicidal Banderites.

So yeah, the pressure's on, and there are plenty in Russia who have the bit between their teeth. Putin's circle can't ignore them any longer.

 

[Gog & Magog]

The US government is steadily inching us towards nuclear war to guard the borders of a country on the other side of the planet from us, that most of the population probably still can't find on a map

This has been true for a long time and will continue to be true long after.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

This has been true for a long time and will continue to be true long after.

Really? How long a time?

 

[kartofel]

This has been true for a long time and will continue to be true long after.

Yes, the government has been worthless for a long time, and probably will be for the foreseeable future. That is precisely why defending the Korean War as some kind of good thing doesn't make sense. It is like reminiscing about how nice it was when the serial killer only mugged people, but that behavior is what helped him on his path to become what he is today. The Korean War is the same. Sure, it was probably the least bs of the "conflicts", but it is still fundamentally a violation of how our government is supposed to function, and directly contributed to the present problem we find ourselves in with Ukraine.