Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Netizennameless]

Yes I noticed from the dumb reaction that you don't agree that the US working class should be lifted and protected by the government from predatory employers and corporations so lolberts can reee about freedom.
And then you're wondering why is the US so polarized and so many unhappy folks are willing to put in RJK Jr or anyone that threatens to tear the house down, cause they see foreigners getting billions while they have to pay with their house if they get cancer or something.

You talk about the employers and corporations as if they are separate from Americans. They are not. Ignoring the ultra-rich, a ton of the money in the financial system comes from the working class in the form of retirement accounts. So when the US government continues to fuck with employers and corporations, they are also fucking with the nest eggs of a bunch of people in the working class. When they make onerous hoops to jump through, they disproportionately hurt small businesses who can barely afford to add onto their administrative costs. Large corporations are able to benefit when those rules drive their competition out of business and the public has fewer choices.

 

[mindlessobserver]

Still lots of Fog of War, but the War Map just updated with a major Ukrainian push in the Tokmak direction, advancing 1 Kilometer in the fields alongside the T-04-08 Highway. According to these OSINT observers, Russian Telegram is crowing about a Destroyed Leopard Tank, but the position geolocated to south of the First Defensive Line, which could indicate an Armored Spearhead is under way.

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1678505325660348418

Ukraine is also blowing more shit up in Tokmak Proper apparently.

 

[teriyakiburns]

Ukraine is also blowing more shit up in Tokmak Proper apparently.

And in Vasylivka, to the north-west, allegedly.

 

[mindlessobserver]

It's easy to forget just how small the distances here are. By the maps measurement, Ukraine is only 16 Kilometers from Tokmak at this point. A 15 minute drive under normal circumstances. If Ukraine really has gotten past the trench Line, Russia will need to either push them back or fall back to the entrenchments around Tokmak proper.

We probably won't know until tomorrow though.

 

[Iox]

And then you're wondering why is the US so polarized and so many unhappy folks are willing to put in RJK Jr or anyone that threatens to tear the house down, cause they see foreigners getting billions while they have to pay with their house if they get cancer or something.

I'm not wondering why the US is polarized, I know exactly why, and I showed it to you.

The right is inheritly reactionary. If the left does nothing the right does nothing, if the left pushes left, the right will react towards the right, the harder the left pushes the farther the right will react.

Normally the left and the right will talk, find common ground, and come to an agreement to progress forward with policy or to hold caution, but that doesn't happen anymore; the left is literally the problem, and as I said, this stems from the Cold War poison as the left "doesn't work with Nazis," will refuse to listen to any dissenting opinion, and will keep pushing left, which will never end the reaction of the right, and thus continuing the cycle of polarization. They're doing exactly what the Soviets wanted, which is to tear the US apart from the inside.

I'm scared of RFK because I do think he's literally the antichrist, but biblical prophetization aside, I don't have any problem with his domestic policy, because I frankly don't care about domestic policy anymore, I know polarization won't stop, so there's no use in trying to solve it, that's why I'm fine with Biden, Trump, Newsom, DeSantis, etc., hell, I'd even be happy with more polarization, the only thing I want is for more support of Ukraine.

What I do care about though is foreign policy, I'm positive candidates like Biden, Trump, Newsom, and DeSantis will (eventually) support Ukraine, I don't think RFK will.

I don't really care about Ukrainian sovereignty, people, culture, language, I don't have any strong negative opinions about Russians, and I personally hate Zelenskyyy, at the end of the day they're all just Slavs to me (I do get sad when children are harmed though ), but I still support Ukraine because the continued escalation of the war serves my ultimate ideological goal.

That's why I don't like RFK. I'm fine with him tearing the house down, I personally hope and pray to see the day that every executive in Blackrock is dragged out on the street and is skinned alive, but now's not the time to do it, supporting Ukraine is first and paramount for me.

ETA: I also support Ukraine because I want to see the smug Ziggers cope and seethe; I'm keeping a list of Vatnik youtubers to comeback and watch if the counter offensive is successful.

 

[Night Crawler]

Trump doesn't care about gains too much, he's not Obama massaging his prostate with a woefully unearned peace prize, and if he wins doesn't need to think about reelection so I don't think he's going to flashy PR. Even for all his bluster about "ending the Korean war" the most he did was get Fat Kim to stop tard-tantrumming for a while.
The only reason I'd see Trump intervening to force a deal is to piss in the State Department's cheerios for all the shit they did during his first term. He WOULD be that petty.

If anything, I would see Trump escalating the gear we give Ukraine and after giving them the means, giving them them go head to blackout Moscow in the middle of January and see how the Russians like it.

Putin was a good, quiet boy when Trump was in Office because he told Putin "Bomb Kiev, we bomb Moscow"; Putin didn't want to find out if Trump meant it, so he didn't fuck around.

This happens in America all the time and I am sure it happens in other countries as well. Politicians switch their positions. You see this with the economy. When the Democrats are in power (holding the White House) they tell people the economy is fine even though that's not the case. The Republicans say it's not good. The Republicans get in the White House they tell everyone the economy is fine. Then the Democrats start telling everyone how bad it is. When in reality it's just bad no matter who in in control. They also did this with Covid. The Democrats said Covid wasn't a big deal and the Republicans said it was. When the Democrats figured out they could exploit Covid to steal the 2020 election they started saying how dangerous Covid was and we all needed to stay home and fill out mail in ballots. The Republicans saw what they were doing and went in the opposite direction.

Biden is in the White House. Biden is a Democrats So, anything he does is awful and wrong. though a lot of the stuff he does is bad and shouldn't be done. Giving Ukraine weapons is bad and we shouldn't be doing it. When Trump wins in 2024 and decides to keep arming Ukraine they narrative will switch to giving Ukraine weapons is good and the democrats will sound like the Republicans do now.

Of course, Trump could just cut Ukraine off completely or do as someone else said and tell Ukraine they need to give Russia something and end the war. Then if they refuse Trump will probably cut them off or something. Either money or weapons or maybe both.

But I imagine it will just be a switcheroo.

@Ghostse
"If anything, I would see Trump escalating the gear we give Ukraine and after giving them the means, giving them them go head to blackout Moscow in the middle of January and see how the Russians like it."

The problem with that is: what happens if Putin decides that this is tantamount to the USA; and thus NATO as well, declaring war upon the Russian Federation? The conventional war would be an absolute humiliation of the sorry excuse for a military that Russia has, but their nuclear arsenal is likely to be in much better shape; as you yourself have stated in this thread.

I have nothing wrong with Ukraine being free of the zigger hordes, but I don't want to be incinerated, glowing in the dark, starving to death, or dying of cholera for their sake in the process.

Also what the fuck is wrong with the Quote and Reply options? Neither of them work now, whereas before you only had reply not being usable once or twice in a thread every so often, so the problem has gotten worse for fuck's sake.

I doubt that will happen. I also doubt the Russians will use nuclear weapons. It's more likely that Russia will probably try to end the war in some way when Trump wins in 2024. They waited till Trump was gone to start the war after all.

I'm less optimistic about Trump and Ukraine. While Biden is catastrophic on domestic policies, he's handling Ukraine decently well. Trump on the other hand is a wild card, and his statements have been all over the map. His promise to end the conflict in 24 hours is pure fantasy, and probably involves him telling Ukraine to cede territory or get cut off (which would be a bad outcome, and Ukraine will of course say no).

More dismaying is that Trump has people in his orbit who are basically pro-Russia. For instance, he has announced he's bringing Flynn back on:
View attachment 5202901
I posted a clip way back in the old thread, which I can't seem to quote, in which Flynn not only repeats conspiratard zigger nonsense about secret biolabs but says Russia is winning hard and Ukraine should be cut off. Flynn is a hero to much of the MAGA crowd after he was prosecuted for made-up crimes to get rid of him, but he really is too cozy with Russia.

Many other key influential members of his base have been taking similar stances (MTG, Tucker, Bannon, Gaetz, etc.). Some may wind up in a hypothetical Trump administration. Trump is personally complimentary to Zelenskyy and won't want the ego bruise of losing to Russia, but with stooges and grifters whispering in his ear, he may push an unfavorable settlement.

https://electionbettingodds.com/ has Trump at 27% to win the election, so this is a real possibility. At least one can hope the war will be over by 2025.

I think Michael Flynn would be good and it's great that Trump says he will bring him back. He should because they screwed him over in Trump's first term. Ukraine really isn't the main concern of Americans. Especially ones voting for Trump. Even some of the Democrats aren't that concerned.

How do y'all feel about RFK?

RFK is a retard and shouldn't be anywhere near the White House. He doesn't stand a chance anyway. The democrat primary process is completely rigged and he won't get the nomination. They are going to push Biden and that's the way it is. It's better that way because if it was someone else people would just cope vote and say "well at least it's not Biden". Kind of the way people said "at least it's not Hillary in 2020" and voted for Biden. With Biden they can't cope vote this time. They hate Biden so much they will stay home. This helps Trumps.

Fuck off, Europoid


Okay, see the thing you bughive freaking Europoids fail to understand is that actual working-class Americans don't need "help" they need to be left the fuck alone, less taxes and less currency devaluation fuckery.

Its dumb because we could literally cut all useless social entitlement programs across the board, and still have room to BOTH cut taxes and give Ukraine the firepower it needs.

That's not what the voting patterns of Americans say.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

The Haka for Kane Te Tai, a proper salute for a true & honest warrior:

This is the guy who rescued one of his Ukrainian friends from a Russian-held basement/dungeon/torture-cell, who had been held there for weeks. Kane later died trying to save his injured squad-mates.

I would've posted this earlier, if not for troon faggotry fucking with the site; but I've watched this Kiwi in action since the beginning. Feels bad, but it was a righteous end.

 

[Fanatical Pragmatist]

you don't agree that the US working class should be lifted and protected by the government from predatory employers and corporations

The US working class isn't some helpless damsel in distress that needs to be rescued by heroic daddy authority. JFC you manage to be so condescending yet speaking from such a position of cowed submissiveness.

Find yourself an average blue-collar American worker walk right up to him (or her) and tell him how powerless and weak he is and how he needs someone else to rescue him and tell me what he says.

Still lots of Fog of War, but the War Map just updated with a major Ukrainian push in the Tokmak direction, advancing 1 Kilometer in the fields alongside the T-04-08 Highway. According to these OSINT observers, Russian Telegram is crowing about a Destroyed Leopard Tank, but the position geolocated to south of the First Defensive Line, which could indicate an Armored Spearhead is under way.

View attachment 5203752

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1678505325660348418

Ukraine is also blowing more shit up in Tokmak Proper apparently.

I saw the geolocated destroyed Bradley's northeast of Robotyne:

Be interesting to find out if this is more piece-meal operations or if Ukraine is starting a larger push.

 

[Ghostse]

The problem with that is: what happens if Putin decides that this is tantamount to the USA; and thus NATO as well, declaring war upon the Russian Federation? The conventional war would be an absolute humiliation of the sorry excuse for a military that Russia has, but their nuclear arsenal is likely to be in much better shape; as you yourself have stated in this thread.

Putin is all hot air, Trump knows it, and will alpha him into what he would always have done if anyone had the sack to call his bluffs: jack shit fucking nothing.
The Vatniks useful idiots clutch their pearls about "is ukraine really worth WWIII?" forgetting that it takes two sides to tango and the Russian brass' calculus will be exact same - 'this shit isn't worth WWIII'.

Also, to just 100%:
I was being slightly facetious;It wouldn't be moscow, very likely to be too provocative. But i could see Ukraine getting the great light for tit-for-tat on some midsized city as "this could be Moscow if we wanted".
Or very possibly hitting some AAD sites on the way to Moscow.

Russia is so based, shitskins can just scalp natives for having the wrong haircut: https://life.ru/p/1592549

based.

>Start war to stop NATO getting another border on your country
>Give them two more countries on your border instead

And now the entire black sea coast except Kalingrad and St. Petersberg is NATO. No more playing submarine fuck-fuck games in swedish/finnish waters.

It's easy to forget just how small the distances here are. By the maps measurement, Ukraine is only 16 Kilometers from Tokmak at this point. A 15 minute drive under normal circumstances. If Ukraine really has gotten past the trench Line, Russia will need to either push them back or fall back to the entrenchments around Tokmak proper.

We probably won't know until tomorrow though.

The real factor is how deep the Russian "final line" is. 1KM might not mean too much, but an advance of 1002M might result the map suddenly flooding blue. Fronts in static war tend to waver and then collapse.
Anyway despite pushing the Russians back further in ~5 weeks than Wagner took 9 months to advance through Bakhmut, Vatniks will be going on about how it doesn't matter and is meaningless.

Be interesting to find out if this is more piece-meal operations or if Ukraine is starting a larger push.

Opening moves of the Moscow feint.
yes I know Moscow is in the other direction, that's what makes it a shitpost

 

[SlapNugget]

There has been some claims that Russia bombed a Turkish Base in Damascus. I have no idea if this is true or not. Someone on Instagram (can't find the account anymore, called russiky_mir3) made the claim and released a video along with it.
Additionally, Cuban state media released an article about it as well but didn't say who did it. No other media sources have reported on this.
https://www.plenglish.com/news/2023/07/10/simultaneous-bombs-hit-turkish-base-in-aleppo/
Either this is complete bullshit or the war's gonna be a lot more interesting. Leaning towards bullshit.

 

[FunPosting101]

There has been some claims that Russia bombed a Turkish Base in Damascus. I have no idea if this is true or not. Someone on Instagram (can't find the account anymore, called russiky_mir3) made the claim and released a video along with it.
Additionally, Cuban state media released an article about it as well but didn't say who did it. No other media sources have reported on this.
https://www.plenglish.com/news/2023/07/10/simultaneous-bombs-hit-turkish-base-in-aleppo/
Either this is complete bullshit or the war's gonna be a lot more interesting. Leaning towards bullshit.

There is the slight possibility that this is the start of WW3, just saying.

Putin is all hot air, Trump knows it, and will alpha him into what he would always have done if anyone had the sack to call his bluffs: jack shit fucking nothing.
The Vatniks useful idiots clutch their pearls about "is ukraine really worth WWIII?" forgetting that it takes two sides to tango and the Russian brass' calculus will be exact same - 'this shit isn't worth WWIII'.

Also, to just 100%:
I was being slightly facetious;It wouldn't be moscow, very likely to be too provocative. But i could see Ukraine getting the great light for tit-for-tat on some midsized city as "this could be Moscow if we wanted".
Or very possibly hitting some AAD sites on the way to Moscow.

You're probably right about this, but the "probably" part is the problem for me.

 

[Ghostse]

You're probably right about this, but the "probably" part is the problem for me.

Just imagine the alternate world where instead of anklegrabbing "PEACE IN OUR TIME" the Brits had instead sent a regiment of Gurkahs to the Sudeten Land and a diplomatic cable to Germany of "Fuck around and find out, stop".

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

Rheinmetall to open new plant in Ukraine:
Archive

Rheinmetall will open an armored vehicle plant in Ukraine within the next 12 weeks, shrugging off concerns other Western defense companies reportedly have about building a presence in the country while it is at war with Russia.

Germany’s biggest arms maker will also train Ukrainians to maintain the tanks and other armored vehicles made in the factory, which will be located in the western part of the country, CEO Armin Papperger told CNN in an exclusive interview on Thursday.

“[Ukrainians] have to help themselves — if they always have to wait [for] Europeans or Americans [to] help them over the next 10 or 20 years… that is not possible,” he said.

The company told the Rheinische Post newspaper earlier this year that it hoped to open a €200 million ($218 million) battle tank factory on Ukrainian soil, capable of producing about 400 tanks a year.

Papperger said on Thursday that factory workers would build and repair Rheinmetall’s Fuchs armored personnel carrier — named after the German word for fox — under license in the facility.

Rheinmetall (RNMBF) will operate the plant in partnership with Ukroboronprom, a Ukrainian state-owned defense group, which will also own the facility. In May, the companies announced an agreement to boost Ukraine’s “defense technology capacities.”

Former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, a close ally of current President Vladimir Putin, has said Russia would retaliate by hitting any facility Rheinmetall set up in Ukraine, Reuters has reported.

Papperger said that the factory could be protected from a Russian attack.

“There are a lot of factories at the moment which are producing military goods [in Ukraine]. It is just another one — and we can protect that also,” he said.

Ukrainian forces have struggled to make major gains in their counteroffensive launched a month ago, in part, because of the Russian army’s air superiority.

For now, Papperger said, sourcing more ammunition was a bigger priority than building more tanks.

Globo MIC goes brrrrrrr....
Meanwhile, in Russia:


But in all seriousness, they probably had the plan cooking since the Russians got pushed back from Kyiv & Ukraine got their first PzH & Gepards. They also seem to have a penchant for rebuilding cities-turned-into-blasted hellscapes, so not all that surprising.

Spoiler: Autistic musings on the nature of Germans

IIRC Germans were also the first Westerners allowed by the regime to help Iraq repair electrical infrastructure after the first Gulf War, and so far German contractors are common anywhere else that's been turned into rubble by artillery & airstrikes. It's almost like they're become genetically driven after hundreds of years doing it, and they get uncomfortable or irate when things aren't needing to be fixed; which would explain some things about their vehicles & electronics.

 

[Blackstar]

 

[Apathetic Luigi]

Fuck off, Europoid


Okay, see the thing you bughive freaking Europoids fail to understand is that actual working-class Americans don't need "help" they need to be left the fuck alone, less taxes and less currency devaluation fuckery.

Its dumb because we could literally cut all useless social entitlement programs across the board, and still have room to BOTH cut taxes and give Ukraine the firepower it needs.

The US working class isn't some helpless damsel in distress that needs to be rescued by heroic daddy authority. JFC you manage to be so condescending yet speaking from such a position of cowed submissiveness.

Find yourself an average blue-collar American worker walk right up to him (or her) and tell him how powerless and weak he is and how he needs someone else to rescue him and tell me what he says.

Hey rural burger from the Midwest here, with a family of working class family members, you're 100% retarded, yeah totally no one cares about social programs, that's why Desantis's campaign is dead in the water after his comments on Social Security and the retirement age came out with people like Trump pledge to protect those social programs (wheter he will or not is debatable). The working class is at a stage of abuse and whenever they're standing up via unionizing which stuff like teachers and the post office have high levels of, instead of you know... paying them a fucking decent wage, retards like you will cry about "daddy goverment bailing us out". You come off to me as a rich cunt that wants to LARP as a rural working class man with a family similar when you want programs that help the rural people and the working class cut. and then people legit wonder why so many christians in america are turning pseudo socialist at this point. We can 100% agree on support to Ukraine and Foreign policy, but i have to heavily disagree on your comments on the working class and of social programs.

As for the Ukraine war, I love watching people not understand basic military shit, like with the French AMX-10RC getting blown up at times and people saying its a "shit tank". It's not a tank, its a recon Vehicle with a 105 mm cannon on it. Its like the retards that claim a Bradely is a tank and say its Ukraine losing tanks when they're blown up. The war has just annoyed me with idiots who think they know military stuff when they clearly don't, both sides are guilty but the pro russia side is more vocal in their retardation of military stuff in general.

 

[Oxyjen]

 

[Kendall Motor Oil]

View attachment 5205052

Someone didn't tell him you can hide your routes...
At least this isn't as bad as military installations being mapped out by people's fitbit walks.

 

[Vince McMahon]

View attachment 5205052
View attachment 5205053

Ziggers are already like "weeee, you can't kill those who are just following orders".

Yes, you can, see my tagline. Total Zigger Death.

 

[Kreitani]

And we're back!Well sort of.
Today (or yesterday?) some vatnigerrian general got SS'd

You might be wondering what in the world was air defense doing?
It got HIMARS'd

This is S-400 mind you.It may be the first one to be destroyed.
EDIT: Apparently hohols are getting or already got SCALP from frog eaters.Good for them,worse for vatniggers.

 

[Kendall Motor Oil]

Does anyone know what the Ukrainian military is doing to combat the helicopters launching anti-tank missiles from low and from far away?