US US Politics General - Discussion of President Biden and other politicians

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Corpun said:
Re the competency crisis and shit.

I know it's said a lot but it really does feel like the Late Roman Republic as of late. The conditions are all the same. Out-of-touch oligarchic elite monopolizing land and housing while continuing to push people into an effectively powerless position. Rapid imperial expansion brings initial wealth and prosperity that was unseen before overstretching the Republic's abilities to function efficiently, with resources pulling around the oligarchic elite and associates. Political persecution of popular figures ala the Gracchi, Marius, and Caesar and their supporters. The desperation of those in political power unable to comprehend tolerating any threats internal or external.

It's really ironic considering how much the Founding Father's modeled the early US on the Republic and all the founders grew up educated on Livy, Suetonius, Cicero, and the rest. Especially now that I have seen some journos report that Trump was given news he would be indicted relating to muh Jan 6 and trying to overturn the most legitimate election ever. Just a shame Trump will never have the same balls Ceasar had.
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The Founding Fathers studied the Romans. Current year Americans studied the Holocaust. One teaches civic duty and the fair separation of powers. The other teaches perpetual victimhood.
 
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General Emílio Médici said:
They are being charged for... offering to be Trump electors on the electoral college vote count? Is that it? Or is it because they merely brainstormed sending Trump voting electors to D.C.?

Either way that is fucked.
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From a CNBC article on the matter:
Michigan’s attorney general on Tuesday criminally charged 16 so-called “fake electors” for former President Donald Trump, accusing them of a fraudulent effort to reverse President Joe Biden’s victory in the state’s 2020 election.

The 16 people each face eight charges, including conspiracy, election law forgery, and uttering and publishing, state Attorney General Dana Nessel said in a video announcement.

Nessel called the alleged plan a “desperate effort” to “undermine democracy.” Several of the accused are active in Republican politics.

Nessel has not ruled out potential criminal charges against additional defendants, her office said.

The case is the first time that any members of fake Electoral College slates for Trump have been criminally charged.
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On Dec. 14, 2020, weeks after Biden defeated Trump by more than 154,000 votes in Michigan, the defendants met covertly in the basement of the state GOP headquarters and signed documents claiming to be the legally qualified electors for the state in the Electoral College, according to Nessel.

“That was a lie,” Nessel said. “They weren’t the duly elected and qualified electors, and each of the defendants knew it.”

After that meeting, “some of the false electors attempted to enter the state Capitol and deliver their fabricated electoral votes to the Senate floor, but were turned away,” she said.

The bogus electoral documents were then sent to the U.S. Senate and the National Archives “with the intent that Vice President Mike Pence would overturn the results of the election using the false electoral slate,” Nessel said.
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Sniperwoof said:
The what now?
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Here is an explanation of what an "uttering and publishing" charge is as defined by a Michigan law firm site:
In Michigan, Uttering and Publishing occurs when a person falsely makes or alters a document with the intent to defraud another person. Uttering and Publishing is a felony offense with a maximum possible prison sentence of 14 years, up to five (5) years of probation, and a $10,000 fine. There is no mandatory prison or jail sentence. Experienced lawyers can frequently develop a successful strategy to help their clients avoid incarceration as a penalty. In some cases, an aggressive and proactive defense can persuade the prosecutor or judge to dismiss all charges.

Types of Documents in Uttering and Publishing Cases​

There are generally three categories of documents in Uttering and Publishing cases. They are as follows:

  • Financial transaction devices – Includes checks, money orders, credit cards, debit cards, and electronic funds transfer cards.
  • Public records and other documents – Includes certificates from the clerk of court or the register of deeds, vehicle titles, insurance policies, mortgage documents, promissory notes, and account receipts.
  • Documents affecting interest in real estate – Include deeds, mortgage discharges, and other documents that affect an interest in commercial or privately owned real property.
Documents involved in the commission of uttering and publishing do not have to be forged or counterfeit documents. The felony charge also applies to records, documents, or instruments that are legally valid but acquired by deceptive means and presented for fraudulent or illicit purposes.
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What is the meaning of uttering and publishing?​

The act of falsifying or forging a crucial document, such as currency or a vehicle title, and then attempting to pass it off as authentic is known as Uttering and Publishing. In Michigan, judges and prosecutors take fraud very seriously, and uttering and publishing false documents can result in serious jail time.

What are the three (3) elements of uttering?​

Every crime is made up of parts called “elements.” Uttering and Publishing has three elements that must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt by the prosecutor. The person committing the crime must (1) present a false document to another person, (2) with the knowledge that the document contains false information, and (3) with the intent that the person to whom the document is presented believes the false information.

What is the difference between forgery and uttering?​

Forgery is the creation of a counterfeit document by someone intending to defraud another person. Uttering and Publishing is the presentation of a forged document to another person intending to defraud them.

What does uttering in the law mean?​

Uttering is the act of passing along or presenting a document to another person.

What are the penalties for Uttering and Publishing?​

The maximum sentence for Uttering and Publishing is 14 years in prison, up to five (5) years of probation, and a $10,000.00 fine.

Can I be deported for Uttering and Publishing?​

Under U.S. immigration law, Uttering and Publishing is a felony crime involving moral turpitude. A conviction can result in deportation and other immigration consequences. A defense lawyer can negotiate with a prosecutor for a plea bargain that might prevent or reduce the impact of a conviction.

Is Uttering and Publishing a common charge?​

Uttering and publishing is among the most common felony charges in Oakland, Wayne, and Macomb counties. The attorneys with LEWIS & DICKSTEIN, P.L.L.C. appear in courts throughout these counties daily and know the steps to take to get charges dismissed or reduced and achieve lenient sentences without incarceration.
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vivek_leapfrog-2024-election-1536x1173.jpg

VIVEK RAMASWAMY HOPS OVER DESANTIS IN TURNING POINT STRAW POLL​

Cartoon published 07/18/2023

Over the weekend people attending the conservative Turning Point Action conference overwhelmingly voted for President Trump in a Republican primary straw poll. 87% backed Trump as the republican nominee.


That was no surprise. What was a surprise was candidate Vivek Ramaswamy who came in as second choice for the GOP nominee behind Trump.

Charlie Kirk stated:

“Vivek really showed up this weekend and the Turning Point Action straw poll results prove it. 51% of respondents picked this man as their 2nd choice candidate. Pretty remarkable how far he’s come in a very short amount of time.”

Vivek has leapfrogged over Fox News’ favorite, Ron DeSantis. In fact, DeMeatball did not even bother to attend the conference and the attendees expressed disappointment. “Vivek showed up and gave a great speech, and he was the clear second-choice favorite among our people” Charlie Kirk added.


We have no ax to grind against DeSantis, but the Florida governor is not drawing big crowds, nor is he generating a lot of excitement. Perhaps it would have been better for Ron if he had waited to run in 2028.

As far as a choice for vice president, 30% percent of respondents picked Kari Lake at 24%, said Rep. Byron Donalds (R-FL). Surprisingly, 22% said Ramaswamy. Maybe it should be no surprise. After all, Vivek is a terrific on-point MAGA speaker who is unafraid to debate anyone. Ramaswamy would quickly make mincemeat out of Biden. While a Trump/Lake ticket could be a sound path to victory in 2024, we will have to wait and see who Trump chooses as his vice president.

In the meantime, the frog pond will be hopping till the GOP primary in 2024.

—GrrrTeam
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xX_rAcE_wAr_420_Xx said:
It is pretty tragic that you can't just appreciate someone's courage, their conviction, their dedication to a cause they believe in even if you happen to disagree with it. You can't even give them a single concession, like "well they mean well even if they're delusional". And if you point this out to someone, sarcastically say "yeah you're right, all of the people you disagree with politically are pure evil and I hope they all die horribly" then they'll scoff and explain that in this case, actually, that basically is correct and their political opponents are just trying to get people killed out of sheer malice.
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How Western education has taught history in my lifetime reminds me of Spock chastising the "romanticism" of Khan in the "Space Seed" episode of Star Trek (Kirk countering that you can be against someone but still admire what they done). From what I can recall, my coverage of the Civil War were the basic bullet points: Lincoln's election, Southern states seceding, Fort Sumter, (First) Battle of Bull Run, the Anaconda Plan, Emancipation Proclamation, Stonewall Jackson's death (haha, stupid Confederates shot their own general), Battle of Gettysburg (and Address), Sherman's March, and the surrender at Appomattox Court House.
 
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