Legend of Zelda thread - Lorefags GTFO!

[LightDragonman1]

On the note of Elden Ring (great game btw), the devs of TOTK say that they didn’t take much influence from it, as it came out far too late during the latter’s development for them to draw major inspiration.

Having played tons of open-world games before and after them new Zelda games came out, I still find BOTW and TOTK much more engaging btw. More traditional dungeons would be nice, I admit, but what is in I liked just fine, thanks to the freedom given in how you approach the objectives.

Just me though.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

The objectives themselves are the issue. They never feel rewarding, it's all little shrines or environmental puzzles sprinkled around. I want something more complex sprawling, and intricate with its own unique theming...a proper dungeon. My kingdom for a dungeon!

This is an unpopular opinion but the Water Temple from OoT is easily one of my favorites in the series, and my favorite from OoT. It's got a lot of different rooms and elevations and switches and shit, I like that. Zelda feels so damn barren without these things.

 

[LightDragonman1]

I see.

I guess I didn’t mind the switch because I feel that they made up for the lack of complex design and intricate theming with more freedom of choice in terms of how to approach them.

Rather than rely always on finding the one item needed to clear the dungeon and defeat the boss, and having to go through it in more or less the way the game designers intended, I was allowed to experiment more.

Again, just me.

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

Nintendo has certainly been playing it safe ever since Switch launched, arguably it started earlier.

I would disagree with this. The Switch has been one of Nintendo's more experimental consoles at least since the late Wii and certainly the Wii U.

> BOTW was probably the most experimental Zelda since Ocarina given that it threw away Zelda's structure for better or worse.
> Mario Odyssey is probably the most wild Mario game housing plenty of worlds and mechanics that feel alien to Mario's world.
> Fire Emblem Three Houses was probably too ambitious, trying to turn FE into more of a Persona experience breaking the conventions of previous titles.
> Luigi's Mansion 3 tried breaking away from the original and Dark Moon offering a large variety of locals and some cool combat.
> Kirby & The Forgotten Land is the first 3D Kirby and really the first title in forever to break tradition.
> WarioWare Get It Together was fairly refreshing with its multiple characters.
> ARMS was a completely new IP
> Mario + Rabbids a bizarre Mario crossover and a completly new genre for a spin-off.
> Mario Golf and Tennis both had fully new mechanics that at least tried to set them apart from the previous

I can keep going, but Nintendo really does seem to be trying with this console for better or worse, whereas the Wii U was plagued with NSMB designed sequels lacking any real passion. Even going back to the GC, it and the consoles after still heavily followed the groundwork set by the N64. I feel like the Mario Galaxy titles and Zelda Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword suffered heavily from repeat formula and design finally catching up, along with Mario Party 8, Mario Tennis and others. Honestly, the only franchises that are playing it safe to me are Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Splatoon and Pokemon along with single entries like FE Engage and Star Allies.

 

[Never Scored]

I would disagree with this. The Switch has been one of Nintendo's more experimental consoles at least since the late Wii and certainly the Wii U.

> BOTW was probably the most experimental Zelda since Ocarina given that it threw away Zelda's structure for better or worse.
> Mario Odyssey is probably the most wild Mario game housing plenty of worlds and mechanics that feel alien to Mario's world.
> Fire Emblem Three Houses was probably too ambitious, trying to turn FE into more of a Persona experience breaking the conventions of previous titles.
> Luigi's Mansion 3 tried breaking away from the original and Dark Moon offering a large variety of locals and some cool combat.
> Kirby & The Forgotten Land is the first 3D Kirby and really the first title in forever to break tradition.
> WarioWare Get It Together was fairly refreshing with its multiple characters.
> ARMS was a completely new IP
> Mario + Rabbids a bizarre Mario crossover and a completly new genre for a spin-off.
> Mario Golf and Tennis both had fully new mechanics that at least tried to set them apart from the previous

I can keep going, but Nintendo really does seem to be trying with this console for better or worse, whereas the Wii U was plagued with NSMB designed sequels lacking any real passion. Even going back to the GC, it and the consoles after still heavily followed the groundwork set by the N64. I feel like the Mario Galaxy titles and Zelda Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword suffered heavily from repeat formula and design finally catching up, along with Mario Party 8, Mario Tennis and others. Honestly, the only franchises that are playing it safe to me are Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Splatoon and Pokemon along with single entries like FE Engage and Star Allies.

-BOTW was a WiiU game that got ported to Switch.
-Splatoon started on the Wii U and was just as unique as ARMS was when it was first released.
-Game & Wario shook up the series just as much as Get it Together.
-Switch's early library was like half Wii U ports.
-Wii U had the first Mario Maker which was pretty innovative in its simplicity at the time it was released.
-There's a bunch of novel shit for Wii U & 3DS that never got ported like Pushmo & NES Remix.

I'm not looking to get into a slapfight about this, because I don't think Nintendo itself has been particularly innovative since the pre Mario Mandate era, but I disagree with the idea that Switch is more innovative than Wii U because it has ARMS and a bunch of entries in established series with expanded gameplay.

What you're seeing when you say Nintendo is trying harder is the result of going from supporting two consoles at a time, as they have since the early 1990s, to one. All these games that would have been spread across the Wii U & 3DS a decade ago are now condensed into a single library.

 

[LightDragonman1]

At the very least, I do find the new Zelda games to be very experimental, given how they at times feel like immersive sims and the like. You may disagree, but the amount of ways you can go through the games simply by using the mechanics on hand rivals what is seen in those games by Looking Glass and Ion Storm Austin.

Whether that is good or bad really depends on if you prefer the older style of Zelda games over the newer ones, or vice-versa. I enjoy both.

Seems as though most people here prefer the older style, and that’s perfectly fine, don’t get me wrong. But as someone who enjoys open -endedness and emergent gameplay, the new style is right up my alley.

And hey, if that design is decades old, then all that shows is how, imo, the games improved on that design and made it feel refreshing again.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

BOTW was probably the most experimental Zelda since Ocarina given that it threw away Zelda's structure for better or worse.

That was really a Wii U game, and from their perspective it's a return to LoZ's roots (they even supposedly built an NES version for prototyping or something).

Mario Odyssey is probably the most wild Mario game housing plenty of worlds and mechanics that feel alien to Mario's world.

The Mario Land and Galaxy games were too, before NSMB they were fairly experimental with Mario in general.

Fire Emblem Three Houses was probably too ambitious, trying to turn FE into more of a Persona experience breaking the conventions of previous titles.

I haven't played it but they seemed to be going that way since Awakening, where they lost me. The focus on relationships was pretty dumb but I guess people like it (I know it's been in the games since at least GBA but it was an afterthought).

Luigi's Mansion 3 tried breaking away from the original and Dark Moon offering a large variety of locals and some cool combat.

Sure, I'll take your word on it as I know nothing about LM3.

Kirby & The Forgotten Land is the first 3D Kirby and really the first title in forever to break tradition.

They planned for that back on N64, it's not at all a new idea for the franchise, just new in execution.

WarioWare Get It Together was fairly refreshing with its multiple characters.

WarioWare, ugh. I hate how Wario has been relegated to spinoff hell. Leaving him in minigame purgatory isn't refreshing imo.

> ARMS was a completely new IP

They do new IPs every generation, and ARMS looks like shit and nobody ever talks about it.

Mario + Rabbids a bizarre Mario crossover and a completly new genre for a spin-off.

That was Ubisoft, I think it was even their idea IIRC. I guess it still counts anyway.

Mario Golf and Tennis both had fully new mechanics that at least tried to set them apart from the previous

Come on, they're still just golf and tennis. Tackling a new sport would've proved your point better I think, if anything this kinda goes against you.

Even going back to the GC, it and the consoles after still heavily followed the groundwork set by the N64.

Autistic GC rant: Are you kidding? Nintendo's games were so different they were divisive. Star Fox Adventures, Metroid Prime, Wind Waker, Mario Sunshine, etc. The only games that heavily followed the N64 iterations were F-Zero and Smash and that's because, I mean, what can you do with them? But those both stand as arguably the greatest in their franchise to this day.

Even Mario Kart added a crazy new way to play. GC is probably known as their system with the most unique games in either style, tone, or design.

Hell, even Pokemon of all things--the most formulaic of franchises, the CoD of JRPGs--really went for a different tone and unique mechanics with Colosseum. It successfully meshed Stadium and the mainline games along with a twist (Shadow Pokemon, playing as an antihero).

And speaking of Luigi's Mansion, that's where it began (as well as Pikmin, Animal Crossing, Battalion Wars, and Chibi-Ribo, a lot better output than ARMS).

Anyway, I'm not saying Nintendo is entirely on cruise control, and I'm satisfied with their output, I just think there's a few glaring omissions (not just Star Fox and such, but this is the first system not to get its own Mario Kart or Donkey Kong).

 

[TVB]

Autistic GC rant: Are you kidding? Nintendo's games were so different they were divisive. Star Fox Adventures, Metroid Prime, Wind Waker, Mario Sunshine, etc. The only games that heavily followed the N64 iterations were F-Zero and Smash and that's because, I mean, what can you do with them? But those both stand as arguably the greatest in their franchise to this day.

Even Mario Kart added a crazy new way to play. GC is probably known as their system with the most unique games in either style, tone, or design.

Hell, even Pokemon of all things--the most formulaic of franchises, the CoD of JRPGs--really went for a different tone and unique mechanics with Colosseum. It successfully meshed Stadium and the mainline games along with a twist (Shadow Pokemon, playing as an antihero).

And speaking of Luigi's Mansion, that's where it began (as well as Pikmin, Animal Crossing, Battalion Wars, and Chibi-Ribo, a lot better output than ARMS).

Anyway, I'm not saying Nintendo is entirely on cruise control, and I'm satisfied with their output, I just think there's a few glaring omissions (not just Star Fox and such, but this is the first system not to get its own Mario Kart or Donkey Kong).

Which is why I still considered Gamecube to be an underrated console. It's an odd duck of a console, but its library is very impressive.

 

[NerdShamer]

Sure, I'll take your word on it as I know nothing about LM3.

It's basically the second game, but with an slightly stronger focus on the puzzles. Combat is largely the same, though.

 

[Epoch]

For anyone missing traditional Zelda dungeons, I recommend you play (or replay) Metroid Prime 2, the game is pretty much all a giant dungeon itself. I've found Zelda puzzles to be pretty lacking after replaying a few recently, but Metroid Prime 2 is still challenging and it makes you think in 3d plus in 2 worlds (as controversial as the dual worlds thing is).

 

[LightDragonman1]

Interestingly, that game is actually considered the weakest of the Prime Trilogy by a few.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Which is why I still considered Gamecube to be an underrated console. It's an odd duck of a console, but its library is very impressive.

The one thing I think doesn't get talked about near enough with GC is it's controller, that thing is NICE, Probably the best feeling console controller I've ever used and the things were built like tanks, which makes it a real shame and somewhat baffling that basically every other Nintendo controller ever made is some varying level of bad, except the SNES controller, that one was pretty alright, beats the hell out of the Genesis controller that's for sure.

 

[Epoch]

Interestingly, that game is actually considered the weakest of the Prime Trilogy by a few.

Prime 3 exists.

 

[TVB]

The one thing I think doesn't get talked about near enough with GC is it's controller, that thing is NICE, Probably the best feeling console controller I've ever used and the things were built like tanks, which makes it a real shame and somewhat baffling that basically every other Nintendo controller ever made is some varying level of bad, except the SNES controller, that one was pretty alright, beats the hell out of the Genesis controller that's for sure.

It's honestly the most comfortable controller ever. It even edges out the first model 360 controller as my personal favorite controller for any console.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

It's honestly the most comfortable controller ever. It even edges out the first model 360 controller as my personal favorite controller for any console.

And the sticks! They're butter smooth and the D-Pad doesn't feel like a total after thought! And all the buttons are arranged in a way that makes intuitive sense!

 

[macrodegenerate]

>ARMS was a completely new IP

For some reason this made me flash back to better times.

 

[Mega Black]

hate how Wario has been relegated to spinoff hell. Leaving him in minigame purgatory isn't refreshing imo.

Honestly if they announced a proper 3D Wario game I'd be into it. Every time they announce something and I see Wario come up because I know it's just going to be a mini game collection.

Pokemon of all things--the most formulaic of franchises, the CoD of JRPGs--really went for a different tone and unique mechanics with Colosseum. It successfully meshed Stadium and the mainline games along with a twist (Shadow Pokemon, playing as an antihero).

I think much of this sort of experimentation was the result of allowing outside teams to play with their IPs. Now you have a Nintendo staffed by ancient old Japanese men who are so protective and jealous of other people playing with their ideas that they either micromanage it to shit or plain refuse to let anyone touch it.

Colosseum in particular is something Gamefreak HATES. There's a clear resentment from them whenever it gets brought up and they said they will never let anything like it get made again. (Probably because handing Pokemon to any other dev would lead to better games, but whatever)

And the sticks! They're butter smooth and the D-Pad doesn't feel like a total after thought! And all the buttons are arranged in a way that makes intuitive sense!

And you know what else? My GC controller didn't get fucking drift after a year of extremely light use. In fact, I'm pretty sure you could drop an atomic bomb on a classic GC purple controller and it would still work. Those things were built to fucking last.

 

[LightDragonman1]

I do also think the GameCube controller is one of the best Nintendo has made. There’s a reason some are still using it to play Smash Ultimate and the like.

We’re starting to, erm, drift off topic here, so I’ll try to bring it back. All I’ll say regarding what all I’ve seen in terms of this board’s feelings on the new Zelda games is that, like how the older formula has just as many who love and hate it, so too does the newer more open-ended style.

 

[TVB]

And the sticks! They're butter smooth and the D-Pad doesn't feel like a total after thought! And all the buttons are arranged in a way that makes intuitive sense!

Which is why I love GC's controller so much. I remember playing a lot of GC games, but I do remember how great the controls were in both Mario Kart Double Dash and Smash Melee, the controller was so comfy as hell that you have no idea.

 

[Pissmaster]

Gamecube really did have a great controller. It's just a shame it hardly got any games I cared about when it was contemporary. I hate having to keep around PlayStation 2s and deal with all of their crap due to how poorly made they are.