Young men reveal why so many of them are single: ‘Dates feel more like job interviews’

From: https://nypost.com/2023/03/01/rate-of-single-men-in-the-us-looking-for-dates-has-declined/

They’re single but they’re not mingling.

New data from the Pew Research Center has shown that 63% of men under 30 are single – up from 51% in 2019.

COVID isolation and women’s high expectations for something serious are the main reasons they’re avoiding going out and coupling up, young guys say.

“Dates feel more like job interviews now. Much more like ‘What can you do for me and where is this going?'” said Ian Breslow, a 28-year-old high school teacher who lives in Astoria.

“The ‘getting to know you’ period is gone and that doesn’t feel so great after coming out of isolation.”

He recalled a recent first date that went quite well until the woman interrogated him on their walk home.

“She literally asked me, ‘Would you rather our kids go to public or private school?’ Followed by several more extreme questions about getting married. I just started responding with what I knew she would hate the most to get her to leave,” Breslow told The Post.

Experts agree that women are certainly wanting more than ever before.

“The overall picture [is] that if a woman is going to go on a date with a man, chances are it’s not for a casual fling,” Ronald Levant, professor emeritus of psychology at the University of Akron, told The Post.

“Especially if the woman is kind of getting close to 30, [she’s] thinking about the biological clock and wants to have a family,” he added.

Breslow isn’t looking to settle down and get married anytime soon, so he’d rather have casual flings.

“The way dating is currently just makes me want to hook up locally with no stress or strings attached,” he says. “Fortunately that part comes very easy … I’m unmotivated to search for something serious for the time being.”

Ian Breslow said the face of dating has changed greatly since COVID.
Andrew Bruno, a 28-year-old nurse from Bellmore, NY, says flirting in the post-COVID era just isn’t as fun as it once was.

“Being able to naturally approach people while out isn’t like it was pre-pandemic. People are still much less likely to leave their groups or cliques at a bar,” said Bruno. “They’re certainly less talkative and that’s lowered my incentive to put myself out there.”

He also said the pandemic, more than ever before, made dating apps the central means for meeting people — and he’s not a fan.

“That just really isn’t my style. Like there is a weekslong prerequisite before you can think about getting involved, even for casual things,” Bruno said. “I’d rather take all that effort and put it towards my career.”

And, like Breslow, he’s in no hurry to get hitched.

Andrew Bruno feels that people have become less approachable while out since COVID.
“I’m also still very young,” Bruno said. “I don’t feel the need to rush, especially if people don’t act as naturally as they did before COVID. Why would I put it all out there for someone who can’t or won’t hold a conversation?”

For Mike M., a 25-year-old in Queens, it’s his — not the opposite sex’s — social skills that are still battling a bad case of long COVID.

“I definitely can’t walk into a room and go talk to someone I’m interested [in] like I used to be able to. It feels like my outgoingness has suffered some atrophy,” Mike, who withheld his last name out of embarrassment, told The Post.

He’s also having less sex than he did pre-pandemic.

“I have definitely been going online to take care of my urges more than I have by seeing people,” Mike admitted.

What do you think? Be the first to comment.
He feels as though he lost two prime years in his early 20s of being able to date and have fun without worrying about being in a serious relationship.

Now, he’s under pressure to find a long-term commitment, but can’t put himself out there.

“I also feel like I’m caught between two worlds,” he said. “Ultimately I’ve just been crashing and have had neither lately.”
 
You women might be the gatekeepers of sex, but we men are the gatekeepers of relationships
This is arguably the one quote women need to take to heart - and yet very few ever do. Half the reason many younger guys laugh in the face of girls is because they're duplicitous, they talk a great game about wanting long term relationships only to hand out the poon on a whim to the one guy who tickled her fancy and destroy the one bit of leverage they have to secure that relationship. The result is the whole interconnected damaged goods, alpha male widow, single mother memes which leave both men and women worse off.

It'll take some radical societal change (and likely a major war or two) before this current environment shifts because the chance for an easy fix ended the moment third wave feminism took hold.
 
The problem is that "grow up" in this context invariably means "become everything women want from a man, but have zero expectations in return".

A woman with high standards of men is lauded, a man with high standards of women is a chauvinist pig.
I'm sure if people collectively chant "grow up" hard enough, the growing trend of men ignoring women and acquiring currency (such that they can, anyhow) will reverse and we'll be on track to avoid running out of humans to staff the circuses and bake the bread due to the repopulation rate tracing an outline of one of the Mariana Trench's edges.

:story:

It's incredible how even here so many are avoiding the pointed fact that this is both something that can't be ignored as it will have dire consequences a decade or so down the line, and something that can't be looked at as fixable by treating the people pointing it out as if they're the ones who need convincing.

Assume that this poll's number is accurate to the population of men 18-30 for the entire U.S. How many people is that %63 number? Has to easily be tens of millions who you'd have to somehow convince that the time and effort they would need to spend to engage in romantic pursuits wouldn't be better spent on pizza, vidya, booze and porn.

And to whoever would want that mission good fucking luck because the only way I see it getting fixed is us getting to the point that the bread and circuses stop because of it.
 
This is arguably the one quote women need to take to heart - and yet very few ever do. Half the reason many younger guys laugh in the face of girls is because they're duplicitous, they talk a great game about wanting long term relationships only to hand out the poon on a whim to the one guy who tickled her fancy and destroy the one bit of leverage they have to secure that relationship. The result is the whole interconnected damaged goods, alpha male widow, single mother memes which leave both men and women worse off.

It'll take some radical societal change (and likely a major war or two) before this current environment shifts because the chance for an easy fix ended the moment third wave feminism took hold.
is it really any coincidence why female sexuality was controlled by men for most of human history?
 
Since we’re currently on the topic I’m looking for qt kiwi gf who can meet these requirements:
1. Do 4, 10 count reps of Arnold Presses with 20 lb dumbells
2. Whom I can share and lovingly consume a 20 lb steak with.
3. Who can watch Mike and Melissa with me and still maintain their will to live.
 
I thought that was a date.
It can be, but it can also just be a friendly chat.

But for a first live meeting (esp off an app), and depending on where you are and where you are in life*, it's all right, I guess - especially if you haven't really talked enough to know if you click at all. Low stakes all around - on both sides.

If it goes well, the second date should be something a notch up - whether that's dinner, or an activity/event, or whatever is something you would both enjoy. And, to be honest, something that makes her feel of particular interest; unless you know it's what she wants, another coffee, or an evening at your place playing video games, can indicate lack of imagination, or lack of effort, or lack of interest.

*at a certain point and in certain places, maybe meeting after work for a drink is often more the thing, which can become dinner if it goes well, or an hour meet and greet if not.
in the US we are at 50% unemployment
Where are you getting this? The unemployment rate in the US was around 3.7% in May https://www.oecd.org/newsroom/unemp...recent data show that,from 3.4% in April 2023.
and 3.6% in June. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf
Clarifier: Thing is we're talking about very large generalized groups. Not all men are going to be the same, I'm just speaking broadly to how most men are. The situationship types also tend to be fucked up men on some level.

You're not wrong that men get attached before sex, but it's sort of a barrier for full emotional investment for us.

It's kind of hard to put into words (I retyped this post several times), but the way I'd put it is for women sex has an emotional threshold before they give it and for men sex is an emotional payoff. From our perspective it's validation that you're serious about us, that we have successfully courted you. It's the green light to go all in emotionally because it's the real deal.

Thats why @Matt Damon and many other men describe it a payoff. We are trying to earn your approval, and that approval is manifested as a sexual relationship. We can like you and care about you, but until we get that tangible expression of your investment it's hard to invest fully back.
Then why do I keep seeing comments (not necessarily itt, but on this site and elsewhere) about women being whores if their body count is more than 1? [This is not a personal comment; I'm old and comfortably whorish by past actions, if that's what it must be termed; it just seems that there is a huge comfort among men [online, but not just the incel freaks] in deciding and declaring what of a woman's sexual life or history is "acceptable," and much of it seems to be from young and/or single men. And at the same time, there is hardly a non-virginal woman out there over 25 who hasn't been jammed up emotionally by sleeping with a guy only to find out it either cooled his interest, whether due to "conquered!" or deciding she's a slut for sleeping with him, or that he never really had any. You could hardly blame women for thinking the next time that they shouldn't do that.]
I got hit on by a Hawaiian Women with a Meth addiction, possibly BPD, and she was telling me how her 16 year old daughter was just caught carjacking.

Then a 67 year old neighbor messaged me on her birthday if I fancied old girls. Guess she was drinking.

I think that's the playing field I'm looking at, at the moment.

Forgive me if I'm stepping out.
Have you considered not considering the weirdos and wackos whom you encounter? I've been approached/hit on/pursued by any number of offensively horrible men/boys ...but I can't remember any of them because they didn't make a dent in my life; the great, good and semi-good ones stand out far more in my mind.

The weirdos are only your playing field if that's where you're putting yourself or if you're defining your playing field by the weirdos. I recommend against that.
 
No, I said sex as a PAYOUT is a problem. "Payout" implies a transaction. Men taking me out on dates and expecting sex as a return token of their investment, while not giving a shit about me as a human being, is fucked up.
The Entire Marriage system is a transaction, it is a symbiotic relationship where both sides benefit.

Men taking me out on dates and expecting sex as a return token of their investment, while not giving a shit about me as a human being, is fucked up.
It's either fucking or a relationship, they aren't spending their time and money on you as a charity.

so we've stepped up our game
Fucking Cope, Women haven't stepped up shit.

As I said in the original post, many men aren't growing up. They aren't making themselves the kind of men that women would like to marry, sinking into despair and self-sabotage. Instead of using their 20s for self-improvement, they're using it to go out, get drunk, and bang sluts - or just masturbating and watching anime, slowly turning into one of Calhoun's rats. And women have ridiculous standards. They also are much more of whores than they used to be, and nobody wants to marry the worn-out slut that you and your buddies spent your 20s passing around.
And let me ask you what should MEN be improving themselves for? What Grand fucking treasure exists at the end of that Rainbow? Cause I hate to tell you the "Two working adult" Household as entirely removed the primary reason that Men worked full time in the past. I can work 40 Hours..then come home and have to help the partner who also works 40 hours cook, clean, tend to the children and do general home chores..

VS the Alternative of working 30 Hours..Cook, Clean a smaller area, cook a smaller meal (or meals that last longer) and do general home chores in a more efficient way because I don't have to plan bills around someone else's needs.

"OH THAT ISN'T ALL WOMEN"
Okay, how you gonna prove it to me?
 
It's incredible how even here so many are avoiding the pointed fact that this is both something that can't be ignored as it will have dire consequences a decade or so down the line, and something that can't be looked at as fixable by treating the people pointing it out as if they're the ones who need convincing.
No, just call them incels 20 more times, its bound to work if we believe hard enough.
 
I'm sure if people collectively chant "grow up" hard enough, the growing trend of men ignoring women and acquiring currency (such that they can, anyhow) will reverse
Yep. Since when has scolding rootless young men with nothing to lose accomplished anything? They're precisely the demographic most likely cut off their nose just to spite their face.

And yet that seems to be the only strategy anyone is even attempting because it's the greatest sacrilege in modern western society to imply that men deserve anything or that any of their wants warrant consideration because that's MUH PATRIARCHY.
 
Where are you getting this? The unemployment rate in the US was around 3.7% in May https://www.oecd.org/newsroom/unemp...recent data show that,from 3.4% in April 2023.
and 3.6% in June. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf
I first saw it from this post:
And I'll admit I laughed at the spoiler name.
No, just call them incels 20 more times, its bound to work if we believe hard enough.
Yep. Since when has scolding rootless young men with nothing to lose accomplished anything? They're precisely the demographic most likely cut off their nose just to spite their face.

And yet that seems to be the only strategy anyone is even attempting because it's the greatest sacrilege in modern western society to imply that men deserve anything or that any of their wants warrant consideration because that's MUH PATRIARCHY.
No shit. Now I'll admit me being optimistic about the disaster this is going to be whether it's from a massive labor/tax revenue shortage, an incredible influx of tardbabies from women at that age group needing to hook up with men 35+ due to lack of available men in their own age bracket, or the fact that this is being used as an excuse to just double and triple down on the stupidity that's turning younger men in droves away from the very real necessity of a nation to have people with skin in the game in some form or fashion for it to function may seem a bit odd...

But I think much like with the other sectors of the society that are going down the shitter, out of the coming bad will be a chance for things to get better. Because no fucking shit, seriously, I don't think I've heard a single fucking idea let alone read a discussion approaching one that would manage to deal with this issue.
 
Have you considered not considering the weirdos and wackos whom you encounter? I've been approached/hit on/pursued by any number of offensively horrible men/boys ...but I can't remember any of them because they didn't make a dent in my life; the great, good and semi-good ones stand out far more in my mind.

The weirdos are only your playing field if that's where you're putting yourself or if you're defining your playing field by the weirdos. I recommend against that.

I seem to attract weirdos automatically. Even if I'm out on the street for a smoke they come up to me for a chat. My Father said my Mother had the same quality. She would bring a new friend home from work. The new friend sees theres a Playboy sitting on the coffee table and says "Why do you need that when you've got these to look at!" and lifts her shirt up.

I don't really believe in woo woo. But I'm starting to think I give off an aura.
 
Because no fucking shit, seriously, I don't think I've heard a single fucking idea let alone read a discussion approaching one that would manage to deal with this issue.
Programs to put young jobless guys in those trades and infrastructure jobs we're desperately low on people for.
but we all know they'd probably make them for women who will malfunction at the prospect of blue collar work and will spit on any man who signs up
 
Keep trivializing the issue. If you just denigrate millions of young men and their motivations enough, I'm sure they'll magically turn into invested, productive members of society.
You act like these men want long-term relationships.

They admittted that they didn't.

Keep turning yourself into a victim, though - it's easier than a change of mindset.
 
It ain't me - I'm in a very different boat than these dudes. But I can at least empathize with their situation, which no one else seems to be willing to do.
Their situation is that they want to get unlimited sex.

Let me play an incredibly small violin for them.

Maybe someone should ask why.
Because they're young-ish and male.
 
you have to be financially responsible for the child for a good portion of your life, sometimes even if he's not your son
try again
Try again. In theory, sure, people responsibly pay for their kids, even when they won't, can't, or do a shit job of caring for their children in other ways. But in reality:

"About 30% of parents who are owed child support payments get nothing, according to data from the Census Bureau.

"One in five children in the US live in households that receive child support payments. In 2017[1], the 5.4 million parents who were owed child support payments received 62% of the amount they were supposed to get, on average." (emphasis mine)

"About 7 in 10 custodial parents (69.8 percent) who were supposed to receive child support in 2017 received at least some payments.
Less than half (45.9 percent) of custodial parents who were supposed to receive child support received full child support payments.
○ The aggregate amount of child support that was supposed to have been received in 2017 was $30.0 billion; 62.2 percent of that amount was received, averaging $3,431 per custodial parent for the year."
(emphasis mine)


Plenty of people owing child support aren't paying, but also look at that average amount: $285/month per custodial parent, so that doesn't account for obligations per kid, just per parent. $285/month is chump change, at best, and doesn't come anywhere near the costs (explicit and implicit) of raising a child, nor half of it (which would be an unreasonably low percentage if they're not actually impacted in terms of care of children day-to-day, the related time and energy expenditures, and the related earning power limitations and compromises). Child support requirements in general are a joke*.

Note I didn't say "fathers," but rather "people.". Women who are supposed to pay support are also terrible, by percentages, deadbeats. It is true that men are far more likely to be the payer of child support, for various and complex reasons, but without getting into the why, it is simply a fact that more women than men are the primary parent doing the child-rearing when the parents are not together...but the information above covers all situations.

(And if he's not your son, DNA will remove any financial obligations, in all or nearly all cases.)

*And unrelated, there are a large number of single mothers who don't even fucking bother to get child support orders for the electricity-bill-amount they might get awarded. Many (young) women seem to think it is some sort of punishment to the baby daddy. Stupid.
 
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