Nurse practitioner delusion / "Noctors" / "Midlevel staff" - Nurses get a 1 year degree and start thinking they are better than doctors

I'm sure people with no prior healthcare experience who did a direct entry FNP program can do RSIs and paras and thoras without anything going wrong. Things are gonna be wild.
I’ve been helping a family member navigate a medical issue and I genuinely can’t understand how healthcare staff and/or patients aren’t shooting up a lot more hospitals and doctors’ offices. I don’t think we’ve spoken to one non-MD medical staffer in four weeks who appeared to be fully competent. I can’t imagine how much worse this will be when doctors are even further removed from proceedings. Absolutely terrifying.
 
Source: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/ec...t-hefty-debt-trying-leave-hospitals-rcna74204
Archive: https://archive.is/IvBMr

'Indentured servitude': Nurses hit with hefty debt when trying to leave hospitals​

Requiring nurses to repay for training programs has become increasingly common, with some hospitals sending $15,000 bills.

WASHINGTON — When Jacqui Rum quit her nursing job at Los Robles Regional Medical Center last fall over the heavy workload and low staffing levels, it came with a high price — a $2,000 bill from her former employer for training costs.

The payment was related to a contract Rum was required to sign when she took the job at the Thousand Oaks, California, hospital owned by HCA Healthcare, the nation’s largest for-profit hospital chain. Under the agreement, which is standard for entry-level nurses working at HCA hospitals and becoming increasingly standard for other health systems, Rum agreed to pay back the hospital for training if she quit or was fired before her two-year contract expired.

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Despite the agreement, Rum said she quit after 13 months because of the physical and mental strain, citing staffing that was so thin she was often unable to take even a 30-minute break during her 12-hour shifts. As a result of leaving, she has received seven letters since October from a collection agency working for HCA demanding payment for the remaining $2,000 in training costs the hospital says she owes, and threatening to charge her interest and legal fees.

“We’re being preyed on by someone in power. We’re desperate for a job, we just got out of school, we don’t know any better,” said Rum, 38, who lives in Westlake Village, California. “I didn’t even have time to take a lunch break, my hair was falling out, the level of stress just wasn’t sustainable.”

While Rum said she did receive about 10 weeks of training and mentorship, it fell short of what she’d expected given the $4,000 value the hospital placed on it. Some of the in-person classes covered material she’d already gone over in nursing school or that wasn’t relevant to her specialty, and she had limited time to spend shadowing a more experienced nurse.

The practice of requiring repayment for training programs aimed at recent nursing school graduates has become increasingly common in recent years, with some hospitals requiring nurses to pay back as much as $15,000 if they quit or are fired before their contract is up, according to more than a dozen nursing contracts reviewed by NBC News and interviews with nurses, educators, hospital administrators and labor organizers.

Hospitals say the repayment requirement is necessary to help them recoup the investment they make in training recent nursing school graduates and to incentivize them to stay amid a tight labor market. But some nurses say the system has left them feeling trapped in jobs and afraid to speak out about unsafe working conditions for fear of being fired and having to face thousands of dollars in debt.

“These training programs do not provide nurses with any sort of new qualification. Rather, employers are passing on to nurses the cost of basic on the job training that’s required for any RN position at any hospital, and then they’re using these contracts to lock nurses into their jobs or risk this devastating financial penalty,” said Brynne O’Neal, a regulatory policy specialist with National Nurses United, a labor group with more than 200,000 members. “Having that debt hanging over them means that nurses have a harder time advocating for safe conditions for themselves and their patients.”

HCA said in a statement that its programs were developed by nurse educators as “an important investment in our colleagues and demonstrate our commitment to advancing the nursing profession.” The hospital system, which has 184 hospitals, said the program also allows nurses to receive training across a wide range of specialties such as oncology, surgical services, critical care and pediatrics. It also gives nurses the option to transfer to its other facilities.

“Given our substantial investment in this professional development program, we ask participants to commit to stay with us for a certain period of time after completing the training. During the course of their commitment, nurses are eligible for promotion and have the flexibility to pursue opportunities at any of our more than 2,300 sites of care across the country,” the HCA statement said.

The practice has caught the attention of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, which in September began investigating forms of debt created by employers for their employees through training programs. The agency is in the process of reviewing the training repayment programs as a type of debt product being offered to workers, similar to a student loan, and assessing whether the agency should take additional oversight actions, said a CFPB official.

'Undoubtedly to trap you'​

Labor experts say that employers in a growing number of industries have been using similar training repayment requirements as forms of debt to keep workers from leaving their jobs in a tight labor market. Along with nurses, workers in the trucking, retail and pet grooming industries have also raised concerns with the CFPB over onerous debts they have incurred through employer training programs.

“We’re seeing these expand exponentially, especially in sectors where there’s a huge demand for workers that predated the pandemic,” said Jonathan Harris, an associate professor at Loyola Law School and a fellow at the Student Borrower Protection Center. “The main purpose is not to provide real useful training to workers and simply to just recoup the cost of that. The main purpose has, in many instances, been simply as a mechanism to keep workers from leaving their job through debt and using the training part of it as basically a pretext to make it try to appear justifiable.”

California passed a law in 2020 that would prevent hospitals from charging employees for job-related training required by the employer that isn’t related to getting a state-mandated license or certification. Still, HCA has continued to send letters to former nurses there, including Rum, seeking to collect payment for the training costs, according to collection letters shared with NBC News. Harris said that practice appears to be in violation of the California law.

Hospital training programs for recent nursing school graduates aren’t uncommon, but not all hospitals have a reimbursement requirement. A survey by National Nurses United found about half of nurses said they were required to participate in a training or residency program at some point in their career, and among hospital nurses who participated, 55% said they were required to repay their employer for the cost of that training if they left before their contract expired.

The practice has become increasingly common for recent graduates, with nurses who finished school in the past five years being twice as likely to say they had been in a job with a training repayment requirement compared with more veteran nurses who started their careers 11 to 20 years ago, according to the same survey.

Cassie Pennings said she thought she had no choice but to sign a two-year contract and agree to repay her employers as much as $7,500 for training if she wanted a job out of nursing school at the major health center in the Denver area, UCHealth.

She said she received some training from the hospital in her first months on the job that included online modules, several weeks of in-person lectures and three months of shadowing a more senior nurse. But she said she got little value from the formal instruction and had limited time to spend shadowing her mentor given the heavy workflow at the hospital.

Despite the contract, Pennings said she quit after one year because she believed the high patient-to-nurse ratio was creating an unsafe work environment in which she feared she could harm a patient or lose her nursing license. She said she’d seen other nurses continue to stay in their jobs despite wanting to leave because of the fear of having to pay back the training costs.

“You’re not buying a product, you’re an employee and employees get on-the-job training all the time because they want you to be a good employee. This is undoubtedly to trap you,” said Pennings, who left her job in October. “They have an issue keeping nurses there, it’s a retention issue, and so their solution to the retention issue is to trap you. To make it so that if you leave you will owe just enough money that you can’t afford it. It makes you uncomfortable.”

At UCHealth, where Pennings worked, officials decided last fall to stop requiring repayment from nurses who left before their contracts were up and were looking for other ways to incentivize nurses to stay, said JoAnne DelMonte, the hospital system's vice president of professional development and practice.

DelMonte said it has been a long-standing practice for hospitals to seek training repayment because of the investment hospitals make in training new nurses. Programs like the one used at UCHealth can cost a hospital $60,000 to $100,000 per nurse for the first year. Those costs include having to pay new nurses a salary with benefits for several months before they can take on their own caseloads of patients, as well as paying a higher hourly rate to the more senior nurses who mentor and teach them for three to six months.

“In terms of the repayment agreements, those have been the national standard for many, many years. It is just recently that that has been looked at through a different lens and we are no longer requiring that repayment agreement,” said DelMonte. “The real objective there was to demonstrate that we felt that we were providing a commodity, a program that was of value to the individual and to really encourage them to stay with UCHealth for two years, and we are not doing that anymore.”

Rather, she said the hospital is working on ways to encourage nurses to stay, like offering fellowship opportunities for them to move to different areas of the health system and trying to lessen the workload on new nurses.

'Indentured servitude'​

Emily Boundaone, a nursing instructor at San Antonio College in Texas, said her students frequently enter into contracts with repayment requirements, and she worries the practice is contributing to the nursing shortage by locking the students into jobs they are unhappy with and then keeping them from switching into other areas of nursing during the first few years of their careers.

“When they get stuck in these unsafe situations or the short-staffed situations, they can burn out so easily that they just say, I can’t do this anymore, and they don’t have enough experience or perspective to know that there’s other kinds of jobs out there,” said Boundaone. “So I really think that it’s going to exacerbate our nursing shortage.”

The amount of debt nurses have to take on can vary widely by hospital. One two-year nursing contract from 2022 with Baptist Health Systems in Texas, which is owned by Tenet Health, required the nurse to repay the hospital $15,000 on a prorated basis for the nurse’s training, according to the document reviewed by NBC News.

The contract states that the training was being provided for the “benefit of the Hospital and the Employee and that the Hospital will be making significant investment of time and money in the employee by allowing the employee to participate in this program.” It says the hospital would withhold any owed training costs from the employee’s final paycheck if the employee was to leave before a two-year period.

Tenet didn’t respond to calls and emails seeking comment.

While Rum’s training with HCA was valued by the hospital at $4,000, former HCA hospital nurse Sarah Kidd said she signed a contract in 2017, when she took her first job after nursing school at a hospital in Arlington, Texas, that required her to repay $10,000 in training costs if she left within two years. She said the training largely consisted of three months of shadowing a more experienced nurse, along with some in-person meetings and online training modules.

After a few months on the job, she said she wanted to quit when she realized how short-staffed the hospital was but was afraid of taking on more debt in addition to her nursing school loans. At the time, she was making $500 a week and couldn’t afford to live on her own.

“It’s a common scheme they use to trap new grads into working for them,” said Kidd, 31, who now works as a travel nurse in San Francisco. “It really is like an indentured servitude.”
 
Nah, you're not getting preyed on by people in power. You chose to sign up at a place that will require you to pay if you don't fulfil the work requirements of the job. They're PAYING YOU TO TEACH YOU. It's a clause that helps protect the company from people who want to get trained for free and then move to their desired location soon after. Police departments that pay for police academy training also have this clause. If you don't want to owe them money when you leave, PAY FOR TRAINING OUT OF YOUR OWN POCKET. Stop bitching you stupid cheap hussy.
 
Rum said she did receive about 10 weeks of training and mentorship, it fell short of what she’d expected given the $4,000 value the hospital placed on it. Some of the in-person classes covered material she’d already gone
Is this where some hospitals just train you to what they want, but you don't really get a degree. If you went to another system you are shit out of luck?
I have worked with a few people from these 'programs' which are very preditory and the people are shit at their job. They know there are better programs that won't shake you down and make it harder on knowing it is fast and ok with being subpar.
Play stupid games win stupid prizes. The entitlement.
 
Is this where some hospitals just train you to what they want, but you don't really get a degree. If you went to another system you are shit out of luck?
I have worked with a few people from these 'programs' which are very preditory and the people are shit at their job. They know there are better programs that won't shake you down and make it harder on knowing it is fast and ok with being subpar.
Play stupid games win stupid prizes. The entitlement.

Yeah this seems like the Cutco of healthcare to me. I can't bring myself to care even a little bit.
 
Is this where some hospitals just train you to what they want, but you don't really get a degree. If you went to another system you are shit out of luck?
Nah these are specifically for RNs who are already licensed.

It refers to new grad programs where they shadow another nurse for 12-24 weeks before taking any patients on their own. In California where nursing salaries are high I could see this costing $50-60k including salary and benefits.

I don't think there's a pathway to hospital employment for a new nurse without doing one of these programs. Pretty sure you can find a hospital that won't try to claw back what they paid you during preceptorship though
 
I’ve been helping a family member navigate a medical issue and I genuinely can’t understand how healthcare staff and/or patients aren’t shooting up a lot more hospitals and doctors’ offices. I don’t think we’ve spoken to one non-MD medical staffer in four weeks who appeared to be fully competent. I can’t imagine how much worse this will be when doctors are even further removed from proceedings. Absolutely terrifying.
I'm genuinely curious where all of the MD's are these days. I recently had an illness that had me not only going to primary care but also to both urgent care and the ER for various reasons before finally seeing a specialist. The only actual MD I saw the entire time was the specialist. It really seems like there aren't any MD's in primary, ER, and urgent care anymore--did they all just specialize after COVID?
 
That's what's so confusing, so you get through nursing school and at no point did you talk about the next part of the process? What it entails.
A lot of nurse educators haven't worked in a hospital for decades so they give outdated career advice, like how you need to start in med/surg to get experience before you can do anything else. This isn't even remotely true anymore. So you get nurses burning out immediately because med/surg sucks but they feel like they need to do it.

It's seriously like the blind leading the blind.
 
I've been aware of this phenomenon, for want of a better word, for some time and of course we have a thread about it here. I wonder if this isn't just a symptom of a greater issue in America. I have a fear that many of our institutions have people imbedded/entrenched in them in such a way that it's impossible to get rid of them and it's gonna lead to a collapse. I don't even think that DEI garbage can account for it all. I think we're in a feedback loop of bad instructors teaching bad students who then flood the market and drown anyone with actual skill. It won't just be pseudo doctors, it'll be the people who run and maintain the equipment and all the other little people down the line. For example, I am convinced that that's why the Ohio train disaster even happened in the first place and was as bad as it was, one idiot screws something up then another idiot screws something up on top of that until you have a battalion of idiots way over their own heads and trying to cover their own asses.

To bring this back on to the topic of bad and fake doctors, you can see this same kind of thing in the case of Justina Pelletier. In short, Justina was taken to Boston Children Hospital, evaluated by 2 non doctors and not the one she was supposed to see, and they determined that she did not have the already established disease and she was suffering from Munchhausen by proxy. They then stole Justina away from her parents, with help from an exceptionally quick court and police force, and held her captive for over a year and did not free her until the public was made aware and started crying out about it. Fun fact! The parents were forbidden by the courts from talking about it. All of this pain and suffering that that girl had to endure was because BCH was unwilling that their "doctors" at their prestigious and world renowned hospital fucked up.
 
I was going to sperg about how this is about RNs, not NPs, but you guys are right: this is the system that creates the drive to NP.
hospital owned by HCA Healthcare
Welp, there you go. HCA is the Wal-Mart of hospitals in nearly every sense.

I don't think there's a pathway to hospital employment for a new nurse without doing one of these programs. Pretty sure you can find a hospital that won't try to claw back what they paid you during preceptorship though
Any hospital has a new hire nurse go through a preceptorship with an experienced nurse. A nurse who was hired after years of experience at a different hospital is going to have different needs than a nurse who was hired from a day surgery, and of course a brand new grad will need the most orientation.

Some hospitals have an actual "nurse residency" program designed specifically for new grads. Others just pencil in more time for orientation for the new grad vs. the seasoned nurse who mostly needs to learn charting and where the linens are here.

It's pretty common for hospitals to have fine print in their sign-on bonus for if you quit too soon; that seems less sketchy than taking back actual pay.

A lot of nurse educators haven't worked in a hospital for decades so they give outdated career advice, like how you need to start in med/surg to get experience before you can do anything else. This isn't even remotely true anymore. So you get nurses burning out immediately because med/surg sucks but they feel like they need to do it.
If a nurse educator hasn't previously fucked up her back by working bedside, she'd make a whole lot more money by going back to the hospital than hanging around a community college. Educators are mostly idealists and/or the walking retired.

Nursing education explicitly teaches toward the test. A student has to learn how things are done in NCLEX Hospital, that magical place where there are supplies and staff and NANDA nursing diagnoses make sense. The college tests based on those assumptions, so that their degree:licensure ratio stays high.

Students go into clinicals at a real-life hospital, hopefully don't get overwhelmed by cognitive dissonance between classroom and clinicals, and don't get discouraged if their voluntold preceptors don't have the ideal amount of time to explain everything to a student while trying to balance over-ratio patients' medical conditions and also customer service.

After making it through school and licensure, the graduate nurse will need more time to learn on-the-job once they're hired. This has always been true (well, possibly not for hospital-based diploma programs, RIP), and hospitals have always accounted for it.

Nursing education needs to be overhauled, but will it ever be? Also, don't forget that next year they're only going to hire BSNs, no more two-year terrors. I mean, the year after next. For real this time. I mean, by 2030 definitely.
 
I've been aware of this phenomenon, for want of a better word, for some time and of course we have a thread about it here. I wonder if this isn't just a symptom of a greater issue in America. I have a fear that many of our institutions have people imbedded/entrenched in them in such a way that it's impossible to get rid of them and it's gonna lead to a collapse. I don't even think that DEI garbage can account for it all. I think we're in a feedback loop of bad instructors teaching bad students who then flood the market and drown anyone with actual skill. It won't just be pseudo doctors, it'll be the people who run and maintain the equipment and all the other little people down the line. For example, I am convinced that that's why the Ohio train disaster even happened in the first place and was as bad as it was, one idiot screws something up then another idiot screws something up on top of that until you have a battalion of idiots way over their own heads and trying to cover their own asses.

To bring this back on to the topic of bad and fake doctors, you can see this same kind of thing in the case of Justina Pelletier. In short, Justina was taken to Boston Children Hospital, evaluated by 2 non doctors and not the one she was supposed to see, and they determined that she did not have the already established disease and she was suffering from Munchhausen by proxy. They then stole Justina away from her parents, with help from an exceptionally quick court and police force, and held her captive for over a year and did not free her until the public was made aware and started crying out about it. Fun fact! The parents were forbidden by the courts from talking about it. All of this pain and suffering that that girl had to endure was because BCH was unwilling that their "doctors" at their prestigious and world renowned hospital fucked up.
Wasn't there another incident in recent years where parents literally had to kidnap their own kid out of the hospital and take them to another state?
 
My very elderly 95+ year old grandmother is under care of NPs.


She's completely lucid and sharp as a tack, but extremely hard of hearing. She lives alone in her own home without any support services other than help from family.


She lives in a small bedroom community a significant drive from any core medical services. She had a very old-school small-town doctor in her town up until about 15 years ago when he abruptly retired and died.


Shortly thereafter, a government-back community NP clinic rolled into town to fill the gap. It's an entirely female operation with glitzy offices, no walk-in appointments, weeks/months waits for visits and two receptionists with an empty waiting room.


My mother was out of the country one time, so she asked me to sit in on my grandmother's NP home visit, as my grandmother is impossibly hard of hearing. My mother left a list of routine questions for the NP that the family had concerns with that had built up since the last visit 6 months ago.


The two young women showed up at the house. The NP was dressed casually in jeans. I assume the second woman was a receptionist/scribe.


They came to the house with no file on my grandmother. Despite being her PCP for years, they had no reference of her past medical history, her conditions, her meds, her hospital visits, etc.


They also brought no results with them. One of my mother's listed questions was to inquire about a CT scan done months prior evaluating between abdominal wall hernia vs potential cancerous mass. The team couldn't comment on the results because "it was back at the office".


They brought no tablet or laptop with them. The NP also took zero notes personally for the entire visit, nor did she give a single instruction to her admin helper.


The visit lasted about 90 minutes. The structure went like this:


- The NP would ask my grandmother a nonspecific question like "How are you feeling today?"

- My grandmother would misinterpret the question completely, but would still ramble on for about 10-20 minutes about something completely unrelated to medicine like the contents of her Lazy Susan cupboard or a story about her sister who lives 5 hours away from 80 years ago.

- The NP would sit there quietly and without interruption. She wouldn't give any feedback, redirect my grandmother or ask any follow-up questions.

- The awkwardness would only stop once my grandmother tired herself out and stopped talking, which takes forever. The NP wouldn't acknowledge anything my GM said, wouldn't restate her OG medical question and would proceed to ask another completely unrelated medical question. This cycle would then repeat.

- After somewhere between 60-75 mins had passed, I could tell that the duo was fidgeting in preparation to leave. Realizing that nothing had been accomplished other than my grandmother rhapsodizing for an hour about pre-WW2 life (and that her NP only schedules appointments every 6 months), I spoke up and intervened about all the niggling medical issues the family thought needed to be addressed.

- Of course, the NP couldn't really address anything such as the unknown CT results to rule out a cancerous mass because they brought nothing and it was "back at the office".

- Similarly, they couldn't address bloodwork results for her thyroid. They couldn't address potential side effects of medications like constipation because they didn't know what meds she was taking.

- I brought up that my grandmother was complaining about some new shoulder pain. The NP tried to up the dose of my grandmother's sciatica pill without examining her shoulder or ordering any investigations. I intervened and said no because, A) the pill is for nerve pain, not MSK pain, B) my grandmother is on the Pregabalin from an injury from a decade ago falling down her own stairs, C) she drinks scotch morning til night, then wakes up at night to drink more, D) she weighs 90 lbs and lives alone, complaining of dizziness whenever she stands up, E) the main side effects of the pill are dizziness, falls and confusion, F) the drug isn't supposed to be used in the elderly at all, G) the drug doesn't even work for its stated purpose

- With my intervention that I thought it was a bad idea to increase her falls risk, nothing at all was done about her shoulder with no future plan to address it.



So, from my sitting in, I learned:

- the NPs do home visit for my GM every 6 months,

- can't manage her deafness so they just give up on addressing any of her medical concerns at all

- dress in street clothes - jeans and hoodies

- don't personally take any notes

- bring a dedicated scribe but give them zero direction

- prescribe inappropriate drugs for problems that they aren't indicated for, while not laying hands on the patient to examine them or order any diagnostic tests

- order imaging and bloodwork, but can't tell you results because they show up emptyhanded

- don't bring any medical records, so can't address any preexisting conditions

- every visit is like the amnesia from Memento, pretending the past doesn't exist but also not taking any action in the moment

- can't be assertive at all to interrupt a chatty old lady going off on pre-baby boom tangents

- treat their obligations like psychiatry sessions on TV and Hollywood, where they suddenly declare "Time's up" even though they accomplished nothing. But similarly offer no plan of current action, summarizing anything or offering future plans or assessment

- Apparently see 2-3 patients a day

- Only see patients 3 days a week, with the rest for admin time.
 
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Shortly thereafter, a government-back community NP clinic rolled into town to fill the gap. It's an entirely female operation with glitzy offices, no walk-in appointments, weeks/months waits for visits and two receptionists with an empty waiting room.
I started reading your post from the bottom up and I was like "...this sounds like public health." Guess I was right.

Being the sole provider for a rural community would be a nightmare even for a Family Medicine physician. They're way too undertrained for this.
 
I started reading your post from the bottom up and I was like "...this sounds like public health." Guess I was right.

Being the sole provider for a rural community would be a nightmare even for a Family Medicine physician. They're way too undertrained for this.

The setting is technically not rural, just inconveniently placed because of history, geography and amalgamation.

You have access to all specialties within an hour's drive, and that's roughly your ambulance range to get any services.

It's simply the fact that it might as well be on the moon wrt to primary care and urgent care for a frail senior that lives alone and doesn't drive, even without dementia.

I was actually quite thrilled when a NP clinic filled the local primary care niche when the last family doctor moved out/died.

But my experiences about what this new "primary care" model looks like concerned me greatly after hearing about their MO secondhand through family members.

Their last family doctor was very old school, with its pros and cons. I wasn't a big fan that he had elderly seniors addicted to benzos and Ambien-like Z-drugs every night for "insomnia".

But he was a one-man show and worked himself to death. He couldn't even dream of the government resources being gifted to this new feminist clinic (which was chock-full of trans BS in the waiting room when I ran an errand to pick up some Ensure there).

It's the classic dichotomy of the old school entrepreneurial fee-for-service independent doc slamming through high volumes of patients, now being replaced by the cushy, incompetent, government-backed, lazy young feminist DMV version.

Thankfully my grandparents are/were exceptionally healthy for their age and essentially require no actual care. These new replacements are complete social window dressing.

But my grandmother likes them because they are young and "nice". Which is another example that a lot of people are absolutely incapable of determining the quality of healthcare they are receiving (or not receiving) beyond the superficial.
 
Isn't it some open secret that Nurses are aspiring serial killers? I had always heard this from multiple sources both online and IRL. When I saw this thread I did a google search for "nurse charged with killing paitient" and got about fifty bazillion results.

I understand it's a profession with higher chances of death than others but a lot of the articles are about multiple intentional overdoses and don't seem accidental.
 
Their last family doctor was very old school, with its pros and cons. I wasn't a big fan that he had elderly seniors addicted to benzos and Ambien-like Z-drugs every night for "insomnia".
There are quite a few older FM MDs in my area who must think the Beers Criteria is actually a list of things you should prescribe to geriatric patients.

Younger generation seems to like quetiapine, which, well...that's not an improvement guys.

This gets into my weird soapbox where medicine is customer service now, so a patient comes in and expects you to address their chief complaint in a single visit, so you get your prescription pad out so they leave happy and give you good reviews. Yay! Meanwhile grandma is on 2mg alprazolam po qid
 
Younger generation seems to like quetiapine, which, well...that's not an improvement guys.

I haven't had much drug-seeking behaviour with quetiapine, but at this point I'd believe anything.

I used to think the Z-drugs were a harmless alternative to benzos.

Until I was working at a doc-in-a-box clinic with paper charts, no individual patient files and all past records stored chronology beneath the desk in bankers' boxes.

I had some "labourer" try to hit me up twice in the same week looking for 90 Z-pills because he claimed to work at a fly-in work camp and his roommate snored.

I only caught on because he got brazen and greedy, with the same story, asking for the same pills I'd prescribed him just days before. The clinic's record keeping was so terrible that I couldn't pull the chart I'd wrote just a few days earlier in real time, so had to just rely on memory.

The drug seeker wasn't even upset when caught. He was downright arrogant. I told him to come back next time at least on a night I wasn't working.

We also had a phase when drug seekers were stockpiling Bupropion, injecting it and ending up in ICU with terrible abscesses.

Like quetiapine, I never considered DNRIs as drugs of abuse either. And they aren't even tracked since they aren't controlled.
 
Nah, you're not getting preyed on by people in power. You chose to sign up at a place that will require you to pay if you don't fulfil the work requirements of the job. They're PAYING YOU TO TEACH YOU. It's a clause that helps protect the company from people who want to get trained for free and then move to their desired location soon after. Police departments that pay for police academy training also have this clause. If you don't want to owe them money when you leave, PAY FOR TRAINING OUT OF YOUR OWN POCKET. Stop bitching you stupid cheap hussy.
Metropolitan police departments do the same thing, except you can be on the hook for $10,000 in training and gear.
 
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