old PC games seem like they're being forgotten

[Illuminati Order Official]

Outlaws

Fucking rad. Amazing cutscenes.

I thought I'm the only one who played this one. Those educational Star Wars games (Droid Works, Gungan Frontier, Pit Droids) were something else.

 

[Womble of Wimbledon]

The Incredible Machine was great fun, dunno what I was supposed to be learning from it but it was one of the few enjoyable games on the school computers.

The late 90s CRPGs were great and still hold up, riding the line of complexity and accessibility that the older ones don't. Fallout, Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, Diablo (not really and RPG but fuck you).

Underrated gem was Nox, but of a Diablo clone but just a shit load of fun. I spent years waiting for a sequel before discovering that EA had bought out Westwood studios and shut it down!

SimCity was always good fun, but I was never able to achieve much more than having my city burn down.

 

[skykiii]

Those educational Star Wars games (Droid Works, Gungan Frontier, Pit Droids) were something else.

Gungan Frontier was an educational game?

Speaking of Star Wars games watching this video brought back some memories:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5oyrrzbYp4

A weird thing is that the re-release history of the X-Wing and TIE Fighter games actually wound up predicting the Star Wars Special Editions in a way--as that video notes, when X-Wing got re-released on CDROM, it wasn't actually the original floppy version, just all the missions and graphics were ported into the TIE Fighter engine. Fair enough as the games were released close enough together that I doubt most would even notice.... but then in 1998 the same happened for the Windows 98 release, which was just the levels and graphics ported to the X-Wing VS. Tie Fighter engine (and I'm not even 100% sure about the graphics).

Unfortunately I no longer own X-Wing (the copy I had as a kid wasn't exactly legit, anyway). I have its sequels though.

............................

So how many of you guys remember THIS fuckness?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maVsU8Yyu4g

That footage is the Amiga version, though I had the DOS version growing up. I think I still have it. And one thing I always found odd is this game came with not only a thick manual.... but an actual freaking NOVELLA to explain its backstory. It is "unnecessary amount of detail: the book" because pretty much nothing in it actually comes up in the game.

That said, that's another thing I loved about classic PC games, when they had needless extras like that or did something cool and unexpected. The very first Warcraft game came with a manual that was double-sided: one side is the human manual, but flip it over and its the manual for the Orc side. In practice this meant they actually printed some info twice, but oh well. One of my IRL friends got a later printing that unfortunately for him, contained a more normal manual. His loss.

I also always liked the fake tabloids and magazines that came with the Space Quest games.

I think the most well-known cases of games going above and beyond are probably the Infocom text adventures.

 

[Illuminati Order Official]

Gungan Frontier was an educational game?

It was released under LucasLearning brand and it was quite good at explaining how an ecosystem works.

 

[skykiii]

It was released under LucasLearning brand and it was quite good at explaining how an ecosystem works.

I'm just shocked that Gungans were responsible for teaching kids much of anything.

.......

So just now I found another dimension to this whole "old PC gaming is sort of a memory hole" thing:

Its hard to find info on old controllers.

Stuff like the Gravis Gamepad gets a lot of coverage, but just now I tried to look up stuff about vintage flight sticks (I was thinking of buying one because the Microsoft Sidewinder I have doesn't always work with MS-DOS games) and just.... I can seemingly only find videos and articles covering modern stuff. I didn't even know Thrustmaster and CH Flightsticks were still being made!

So yeah, expanding the topic, what do you guys know about vintage PC controllers? Or what were your experiences?

 

[Pissmaster]

I'm just shocked that Gungans were responsible for teaching kids much of anything.

.......

So just now I found another dimension to this whole "old PC gaming is sort of a memory hole" thing:

Its hard to find info on old controllers.

Stuff like the Gravis Gamepad gets a lot of coverage, but just now I tried to look up stuff about vintage flight sticks (I was thinking of buying one because the Microsoft Sidewinder I have doesn't always work with MS-DOS games) and just.... I can seemingly only find videos and articles covering modern stuff. I didn't even know Thrustmaster and CH Flightsticks were still being made!

So yeah, expanding the topic, what do you guys know about vintage PC controllers? Or what were your experiences?

I had a few, but I don't remember a lot about them. All I knew about are whatever they sold at Walmart or CompUSA at the time. They plugged in through the sound card, for some reason, and were generally not great quality. You had to reconfigure the controls yourself for every game because nothing had any standards, and a lot of joysticks had multiple buttons that were wired to the same control.

Speaking of which, almost everything was some sort of flightstick, and console-style gamepads seemed to be the odd ones out. I don't know why.

 

[skykiii]

Speaking of which, almost everything was some sort of flightstick, and console-style gamepads seemed to be the odd ones out. I don't know why.

Probably because flight sims used to be one of the main genres that PCs basically owned, plus a lot of console-style sidescrollers and the like played perfectly fine with a keyboard. Indeed I never saw a reason to own a console-style controller until emulation became big, as very often PC games still had commands you had to reach for the keyboard for anyway (usually stuff like options menus, but still).

 

[PipTheAlchemist]

The reason why old PC games are overlooked is because old PC games were generally pretty shitty up until the late-90's. Before then, consoles easily dominated both in terms of popularity and quality imo.

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole 2]

So yeah, expanding the topic, what do you guys know about vintage PC controllers? Or what were your experiences?

When MS announced the Xbox I was convinced that it would flop because of the (at the time unseen) controller. MS had only made PC controllers and no console user would put up with those abominations. The Duke wasn't bad though, except for the black/white buttons, those were 100% mongoloid PC controller design.

Controllers having between 1 and 6000 buttons, hats and X amounts of analog inputs made it a pain in the ass to configure a controller for some games. Sometimes a game might assume that [Input 22] is a yoke or some shit and the game doesn't support that so it won't allow you to bind it. But it's actually the 'Y' button on that particular controller.

Something that surprised me was that Dice's Rally Masters from 2000 works perfectly fine with an Xbox controller. You have to bind everything manually, as was the style at the time, but everything from sticks to triggers registers and works perfectly fine. It also supports not only widescreen but 16:10 widescreen and probably 21:9 or even 9:16.

 

[Tom Nook's Gloryhole]

This is such a bizarre thread for multiple reasons: From pretending that older PC games were more 'cerebral' than the console games of their time, to ignoring the insane price of even a basic office PC capable of playing text games in the mid 90s was, to acting like the PC market hasn't always been filled to the brim with trash games that have mostly been ignored to time in favour of the cream that rose to the top.

Up until like 1998 the only PCs you'd really find out in the wild (unless you were an enthusiast or had rich parents) were home office computers with minimal graphics cards (if any). The average PC owner had no idea how to upgrade a PC, and if a game didn't run then too bad. Troubleshooting was dogshit without the internet too so it wasn't uncommon for kids to go buy a game, try and install it only to realise it wouldn't run on their PC so they took it back for a refund.

Almost everything that comes second nature to us nowadays (how to balance a PC build, which RAM to get, what slots where, how to make sure you're not cooking the thing or drawing too much power etc.) was impenetrable and specs jumped about so wildly over the span of just a few years that it just wasn't worth trying to fix something yourself, if it doesn't work on your PC it doesn't work on your PC and that's that.

As such, the REAL big sellers were games that could play without a graphics card, or at the very least a BASIC graphics card. They were almost designed to be retard proof and the best games of their time automatically set themselves on the lowest settings so the game could at least RUN.

And even then, until the quad core came along in 2004 general performance was dogshit for running anything CPU intense. You young faggots don't understand what it's like to turn the PC on, go for a five minute piss and still be waiting to get to the desktop by the time you're back.

So to see all this shit and wonder why console gaming kicked off and why so many early PC games were lost to time? PC gaming was an absolute trash fire for such a long time, and even though most console ports around the same time were inferior the thing that made them sell like hot shit was that the games were STANDARDISED. You stick a PS1 version of Croc in a Playstation and it plays just as well on any Playstation. You stick the PC version of Croc in your PC and good fucking luck pal.

It REALLY doesn't help that most of the old games of the time that are 'lost to time' run incredibly well on modern PC systems compared to the standard setup of their time so are considered massive underrated gems, not games that ran like shit that have redeemed themselves. Play Deus Ex at 14 frames per second and then some PS1 FPS and I fucking DARE you to tell me that PC games were the better standardized experience of the time.

 

[skykiii]

to acting like the PC market hasn't always been filled to the brim with trash games that have mostly been ignored to time in favour of the cream that rose to the top.

If anything I've been noticing the exact opposite--a lot of posts say something like "a lot of PC games were crap, console games were overall better."

Except that consoles also benefit from that exact same "we forget the bad stuff" (unless it becomes an ironic meme, like Bubsy 3D) thing. Like, as much as I love the Super Nintendo.... it had hundreds of games, and how many of them can anyone here honestly say they remember? That argument gets diluted further when a lot of good console games started out on the PC anyway.

(To be fair sometimes the console version was a legitimate improvement, like Might and Magic or Ultima Exodus on the NES).

And yeah, the PC gaming market had issues--especially technical ones--I don't think anyone is denying that games were hard as fuck to run until Windows 95/98 came along and made things more straightforward and standard (and unsurprisingly this is where PC games start becoming more known in the mainstream consciousness).

..............................

As for PC gaming being "more cerebral," that's an interestiing one.

I mean, on one hand it flies in the face of how many PC games were nearly-mindless action. I would hope nobody is claiming that the Duke Nukems, Blood, or Blake Stone Aliens of Gold are games for the thinking man.

At the same time though, I've had conversations with console gamers who talk about how "clever" puzzles in, say, a Zelda game can be, and they get shocked when I say I actually find Zelda puzzles tedious and at times too obvious. Then I show these people something like Myst or even Zork, and I tend to get one of two reactions--either they fully understand where I'm coming from, or else those games are so weird and alien to them that they get scared off.

One of my favorite reactions: "Wait, carrying the torch into the gas-filled chamber causes it to explode and kill you? How was I supposed to know that?" Ummm.... because that's what happens when gas is exposed to open flame? (This is from the first Zork, where you have two light sources--a magic torch whose flame never goes out, and a helmet-mounted flashlight with a limited battery. You are of course supposed to save the helmet-light for this gas chamber).

...............................

I will say this much: For me, PC gaming shines the most when its either A) a game of a type that couldn't be done on console--or at least, not done without compromise--or else B) games where PC devs had very different POVs than console devs (RPGs are a huge example of that).

Like recently I was replaying this thing called Realms of Chaos, and its fun, but not an experience you couldn't get on a console. Understandibly this tends to be a less talked about game. By contrast though there is a cottage industry of fans of Infocom Text Adventures (which I would link to a video about but.... text adventure, what's the point?), which is a genre that can't really be done on console without a keyboard, but at the same time point n' clicks or other graphical adventures aren't really the same experience.

(Non-Infocom ones can be fun too but I do sometimes hate their less natural parsers. Infocom spoiled me on how you can type natural-sounding sentences and still be understood and they basically have a response for everything.... that and actual helpful descriptions. By contrast I tried some Scott Adams adventures recently and kept feeling like they were too vague).

 

[demicolon]

Underrated gem was Nox, but of a Diablo clone but just a shit load of fun. I spent years waiting for a sequel before discovering that EA had bought out Westwood studios and shut it down!

Nox was a MOBA game that was about 10 years too early. The singleplayer got added as an afterthought, the real fun is in multi.

 

[ChucklesTheJester]

@skykiii

Funny you mention this because I have a example of this for the ps2/xbox.

Does anyone know of the cult classic game Ghost Master?

Did you know there was a PS2/xbox port?

https://www.mobygames.com/game/23771/ghost-master-the-gravenville-chronicles/

This is what Mobygames says about it



They dumbed it down for the consoles and changed the plot ruining it.

Lucky for us someone else made a full play through of it so non of us would have to suffer through this.

The reason you do what you do based on what ever the reason the level you play says. Like freeing some trapped spirits by having mortals find the bodies, Scaring the miltiary so they can't keep peace from all the chaos you been causing, ect.

Spoiler: Spoilers for later ghost master levels

Leading to you helping free the DARKLING(A super evil old spirt that feeds on souls, you quite literally feed it people in one mission) by the end, and stopping the knock off ghost busters(Ghost Breakers) from blowing up a bomb that will premently not only banish you, but all the ghosts you are a master over. Ghost breakers also use a giant icecream man made of ghost energy at the end as a last ditch effort.

In other words, you are pretty fucking objectively evil in the PC version.

Spoiler: Spoilers for the Console game

You are trying to stop the DarkLing from being freed, and by the end when it turns out Oh no the darkling is set free you get help from a ghost version of the stay cool ice cream man, who the ghost breakers are trying to banish.

In other words You are objectively good.

so it's a worse version of Ghost Master.

 

[Mike Matei's Penis]

The old versions of CoD until Black Ops 2 on PC feel like they're being forgotten and overrun with hackers and crazy computer exploits, especially in multiplayer. Part of me feels like it's on purpose to get everyone playing the backward compatitable console version. It's a shame because they're all really fun and blow the water out of the new games, what I'd give to play WaW multiplayer on PC. Yet they are still mostly sold at full price on Steam with very few sales.

 

[Lone Wandering Courier]

Midtown Madness 2 was a PC racing game I played the fuck out of when I was younger. I don't see many people talk about it these days, but it maintained an active modding community for years well after it came out.

 

[ZipDisk]

I remember we all pointed and laughed when Techland got munched on by the chinee, but it turns out that their Chrome engine is under the hood of a TON of games. They're no Renderware, but I was shocked at how many games use that engine.

It's not like Gamebryo though, they actually update the engine.

No one ever rembembers G-NOME, except LGR.

I don't really look back past W95.

One thing I liked about JK2 was you had to earn your lightsaber back. Kyle hung that fucker up for a reason.

I did have a fun Saturday Morning scrolling through myabandonware.com.


Anyone who says they look back fondly on the Gravis Gamepad is a fucking liar. That thing sucked shit.


I saw a steam controller at the Veterans thrift store the other day, they wanted $150. It's going for $38 on ebay so I don't know what they are smoking.

 

[The handsome tard]

Anyway, I quite liked the first two Broken Sword games. There is some bullshit in there puzzle wise but nowhere near the level of some of the worst offenders in the genre. I think they might have been ported to the Playstation but really PC is the only good way to play a point and click game.

They seem to be considering a new Broken Sword game but, like many dormant series, I kind of dread the prospect of it making a come back because of the clown world gaming escape of today.

 

[GunCar Gary]

Play Deus Ex at 14 frames per second and then some PS1 FPS and I fucking DARE you to tell me that PC games were the better standardized experience of the time.

pc games weren't a better standardized experience, they were a superior but more complicated experience when you took the time to figure them out. it's funny you mention Deus Ex because Deus Ex Invisible War is a perfect example of why console gaming was completely inferior for so long. requiring auto aim, worse graphics, forcing levels to be in small chunks to keep with small console memory limits, removing complexity to work better with fewer buttons on a gamepad and no mouse, removing complexity because the average console player is a 12 year old child, trimming down dialog options, no mods. these were all hallmarks of a dumbed-down console version of a PC game for many years

console games did standardize gaming experiences, but they standardized them for a general population. who is overall dumb. i liked gaming much better when there was more gatekeeping through required tech knowledge

 

[Xarpho's Return]

As for PC gaming being "more cerebral," that's an interestiing one.

I mean, on one hand it flies in the face of how many PC games were nearly-mindless action. I would hope nobody is claiming that the Duke Nukems, Blood, or Blake Stone Aliens of Gold are games for the thinking man.

A lot of the "thinking man" games are from companies that were never part of the console ecosystem and largely disappeared/merged out of existence/changed beyond recognition by the year 2000 (if not sooner). Brøderbund. Infocom. Maxis. Spectrum HoloByte. Interplay. Sierra On-Line. Origin Systems.

As far as "forgotten PC games go" I am quite pleased that Mac stuff like Glider PRO, Bugdom, and Power Pete have been open-sourced and ported, though Ambrosia Software's stuff is still trapped in the past, unfortunately. And Mac emulation is a bitch.

 

[ditto]

Early text mode games don't get nearly as much love as they deserve.

Probably spent hunders of hours playing Kingdom of Kroz on an old 8088.

Written by Scott Miller and was one of Apogee's very first titles.