Anyone else find punk to be pretentious?

Punk isn't for listening to, punk is background for you to run around smashing into each other. If modern punk fans don't do that then it isn't punk anymore.

Only punk worth listening to is Siouxie and the Banshees and I don't know if they're punk so much as just wandered through the punk scene like a tiger amongst kittens.

I'll say this, though. Johnny Rotten knew how things were. He was calling out Jimmy Saville decades before the truth was allowed to come out by the BBC.
 
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As far as Green Day being pop, yeah.

And they are certainly gigantic faggots one and all, but that’s the formula.

Take any punk turd and polish it up just enough to appear like someone somewhere exerted some effort, and suddenly you have simplistic pop rock.

Alternative was a weird catch-all in the 90’s, where you could put Nirvana, which was again pathetic low effort shit, right next to Smashing Pumpkins, which was some clever, amazing shit.

While wanting to fuck your dad and telling him as much has always been prerequisite to punk, it’s not a good excuse to be just plain bad at things
 
The worst offenders are probably Bad Religion, NOFX, and Green Day, all of whom got a lot of mainstream play in the 90s/early 2000s, with Green Day becoming especially omnipresent and fucking intolerable with American Idiot.

On the other hand, you have Fear (drunk and deliberately offensive), Poison Idea (drunk and fat) and the first two Dead Kennedys albums that took shots at everyone.

This song in particular is funny in retrospect:


Like any other genre, there's some decent stuff buried in the shit mountian.
 
Pretentious? Definitely. Bitch about "The Man" in their music for decades, then, in a way, become "The Man" without any sense of irony.

Punk, or at least what punk was supposed to be, is dead.
 
Punk music has been dead for a long time, most punk scene people are horrible people who are capitalism or my boss is evil yet they live off their parents who happen to make six figures a year or more.
Your average punk supporter is some middle class kid who adopts the punk language and gutter punk stuff so they can hide the fact they live in a nice middle class lifestyle.
Your average right wing punk person tends to live the life and struggle. All in all punk fans are the problem.
 
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I never liked punk music but was drawn to the culture around it. Really enjoyed the DIY mentality and the self reliance aspects of things. I guess I hung out with "crusties" though the modern crust punks are the further along evolution of what we left. Null's newspaper idea made me think of all the zines I made in MS and HS. Anyway, the modern punk are more hypocritical than Catholics. I consider a lot of the "makers" punk, it is what the DIY movement sort of morphed into. Plus YouTube gave people an avenue of revenue without "selling out". But like most good things, YouTube became corporate and so has the content. Internet 2.0 has no edge, dull and pitted or otherwise.
 
It always was primarily well off children larping as "FUCK THE SYSTEM", while imagining we're still in 2004 and ignoring the fact that the media establishment always portrayed them as cool and correct.
eh, not quite. It started among blue collar working class youth rebelling against a VERY stuffy British system. It wasn't originally so political and the fact that neo-nazi punks became a thing demonstrate that. Now partially in reaction to the neo-nazis and the left's crusade of treating their politics like an eschatonic movement, punk is all about socialism and nowadays socialism and punk are almost fused.

FWIW, Johnny Rotten was a Trump fan. The Ramones were apolitical and Johnny Ramone was very much a Republican. Siouxsie Sioux considers herself punk up until today and has never ranted about politics as far as I know and expressly said the Banshees were not a political band and weren't equipped to comment on politics.

Like goth and many other things, the first wave or two were good, then it became a trend people wanted to fit into and it became this defined thing with a name.

Leftism has fused with pop culture and inserted itself into there. It has taken over the Western narrative of "equality" and presents socialism/communism/left wing radicalism as the only true path to equality. It's almost everything.

Punk isn't for listening to, punk is background for you to run around smashing into each other. If modern punk fans don't do that then it isn't punk anymore.

Only punk worth listening to is Siouxie and the Banshees and I don't know if they're punk so much as just wandered through the punk scene like a tiger amongst kittens.

I'll say this, though. Johnny Rotten knew how things were. He was calling out Jimmy Saville decades before the truth was allowed to come out by the BBC.

I'd say the Ramones are worth listening to as well. Smaller bands, earlier bands, the later in time you go the worst it gets as is the case with music after the 80s. Generally the less preachy the music the more talented the performers, and the Banshees are no exception. The first two Banshee albums I'd consider to be punk, but then they become their own undefined genreless thing. That's why I love the 80s, we use the labels new wave and post-punk which really mean nothing because the output of music during that time was so diverse and genre was more of a loose label to describe a band rather than a box to be shoved into like most music is today. Everything performers do today was done already and better in the 80s except youth know none of it and they have no interest in what isn't current.

Even singers that bring in politics into their music a lot, if they can relate timeless things about the human experience, they tend to have more talent. The shitty people, most performers today in the Millennial geist, are very "for the moment," as are their careers.
 
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I'll say this, though. Johnny Rotten knew how things were.

(I know your point was about Saville.). But since the larger thread is about punk purity, and then vs. now, I always enjoy this^ clip. I'm not even mad: Lydon grew up, got fat and mostly happy (literally and figuratively), and that's okay. He's also been absorbed with more important things than being punk for the last few years (namely, carer for his wife, who has Alzheimers)).

(Has anyone read either of his books? Im currently working up a list of biographies/auto for my next chunk of books to read, and I'm considering adding one, even though I usually don't like reading life stories of living people.

Danzig Misfits is the only cool punk.

Big voice for a manlet!
That's why I love the 80s, we use the labels new wave and post-punk which really mean nothing because the output of music during that time was so diverse and genre was more of a loose label to describe a band rather than a box to be shoved into like most music is today. Everything performers do today was done already and better in the 80s except youth know none of it and they have no interest in what isn't current.
Agree, agree, and the last 20 years in particular has gotten worse and worse. In originality, and in how music is presented (essentially renting individual songs as THE model is horrific). And the pigeon-holing and hyper-labelling is insane.
OT: Same with fashion - all the "xxx-core" stuff ("oh, um, hmm, that outfit is definitely more naiadcore than wicked-fairycore or goblincore or pagancore or wiccacore, for sure - the fabric is semi-diaphanous and in an earth tone, duh." Bitch, you're dressed like Stevie Nicks, nothing more nor less. It's flowy and dramatic, that's it and the one just like it in a different color is also the same, not a totally different micro-style.
 
Agree, agree, and the last 20 years in particular has gotten worse and worse. In originality, and in how music is presented (essentially renting individual songs as THE model is horrific). And the pigeon-holing and hyper-labelling is insane.
OT: Same with fashion - all the "xxx-core" stuff ("oh, um, hmm, that outfit is definitely more naiadcore than wicked-fairycore or goblincore or pagancore or wiccacore, for sure - the fabric is semi-diaphanous and in an earth tone, duh." Bitch, you're dressed like Stevie Nicks, nothing more nor less. It's flowy and dramatic, that's it and the one just like it in a different color is also the same, not a totally different micro-style.
Nobody cares about quality music, it's all about "vibes" these days. You never hear people talking about the music, it's what they're doing or wearing, or how cool they come off in a music video.

I'm so disgusted by everything in the world today. Pop culture, society, the IDEAS floating around. Everything just fucking disgusts me.

Can you name a fashionista as legitimately original as Siouxsie Sioux today? As avant-operatic as, say, Klaus Nomi or my avatarsake, Nina Hagen? Someone as literate as Kate Bush? Someone as earnestly spiritual and constantly facing mortality like Leonard Cohen? Or music with a stark aesthetic running through it like Nick Cave? Instead you get these rappers promoting being an asshole that people idolize, they mumble to a repetitive beat in an over-produced track. Fucking tough boy rap country where they pretend that left wing rioters want to go to the country side and steal their tractors, or something. You either get left wing preachy shit or right wing virtue signalling shit.

There's no reference to the classics or poets. No construction of clever metaphor. It's all very plain and plainly stated about rather regular issues and not human universals. Everything today is perpetual childhood.

And look at what the kids want to do. They don't want to be rock stars. They want to be rappers, and they never talk about the music they will make but the fame and money.

There's a few modern bands I really like that are doing things right but they're very much a minority. I can't talk about this because society is getting to the point where you have to love it (well, the ideal vision of our society, just if it were run by socialists) or people look down on you. We're becoming very conformist these days...

Anyway, most punk is trash and most punks are just in it for the image and to get laid in the circle. Many of them are just mental people that can't control themselves and with the neverending quest for "identity" it's what people get into when they need to be "different" from other people but aren't creative enough to forge their own path and identity.
 
Nobody cares about quality music, it's all about "vibes" these days. You never hear people talking about the music, it's what they're doing or wearing, or how cool they come off in a music video.
It really does feel like osmething happened to subculture so all we have left is cargo cults run by posers that nobody can call out.
 
Punk as a genre is full of some of the most elitist bullshit I've ever seen which, when coupled with the usually garbage musicianship makes the whole thing seem even worse.

I don't mind some 3 chord music but when you start talking about how certain bands "aren't really punk" and how "the scene" looks down on it I just wanna be like dude, you play music that children with developmental disabilities can play.
 
The Marxist music critics latched on to it as a way to kill prog rock which they didn't think was black enough or something and thus bad, ignroing the fact punk is about the whitest thing ever. Not that prog rock is that great anyways. I spent some time in a message board for a famous prog band and everyone there was some kind of 50 year old bitter nutcase mad at the world. I'd say both fanbases are about as equally awful and the music equally pretentious, although at least punk fans may actually have sex sometimes.
At least prog bands actually know how to play their instruments.
 
(I know your point was about Saville.). But since the larger thread is about punk purity, and then vs. now, I always enjoy this^ clip. I'm not even mad: Lydon grew up, got fat and mostly happy (literally and figuratively), and that's okay. He's also been absorbed with more important things than being punk for the last few years (namely, carer for his wife, who has Alzheimers)).
You know, he looks so much like he's laughing at himself during that I can't even really feel like he's selling out. I'm 100% certain he watched it with a bunch of mates when it aired and the whole lot of them pissed themselves laughing.

I'm sorry to hear about his wife. I never really followed his life that much. I really want to wish him well, it's a tough situation.

(Has anyone read either of his books? Im currently working up a list of biographies/auto for my next chunk of books to read, and I'm considering adding one, even though I usually don't like reading life stories of living people.
I haven't but I'm tempted to track it down. I remember a story about when the Sex Pistols were touring the States and Johnny came out on stage in some rough Texas bar to a crowd of Good Old Boys and opened with "Hello you faggots!" After a murderous silence, they launched into it and apparently went down a storm.
 
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