Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

Ah yes, more Dolchstoßlegende mixed with 'grass is greener' hindsight to provide apologia for flawed work that could have been made better. And that is the problem; with a second draft the prequels would've actually been far more likely to match the potential you can see in them. And yes, there are genuinely bad moments in those films a second draft or punch up would've fixed. People usually do not deserve shit films simply because of wanting something to be better.

I also don't particularly care for the whole artificial overemphasis of a portion of a fragmenting and dying fanbase that's been repeated more and more often as of late. I genuinely think we're in the "you're losing money no matter what" period here. There isn't enough of a fanbase to even bother with it, since you turned them off. And casuals ain't watching because of the previous piles of crap and the current one also being crap.

It has the energy of a failing resteraunt owner screaming about a customer base they see in their heads, but not understanding they're in the hole and already losing that anyway.
 
Last edited:
It has the energy of a failing resteraunt owner screaming about a customer base they see in their heads, but not understanding they're in the hole and already losing that anyway.

They've made shit so bad some of their Abused Wives have actually stopped consooming.
Sadly the ones with zero standards and no gagreflex are still hanging around here with their tepid takes on how Disney could salvage their latest cash-grab nostalgia bait.
 
Ah yes, more Dolchstoßlegende mixed with 'grass is greener' hindsight to provide apologia for flawed work that could have been made better. And that is the problem; with a second draft the prequels would've actually been far more likely to match the potential you can see in them. And yes, there are genuinely bad moments in those films a second draft or punch up would've fixed. People usually do not deserve shit films simply because of wanting something to be better.

I also don't particularly care for the whole artificial overemphasis of a portion of a fragmenting and dying fanbase that's been repeated more and more often as of late. I genuinely think we're in the "you're losing money no matter what" period here. There isn't enough of a fanbase to even bother with it, since you turned them off. And casuals ain't watching because of the previous piles of crap and the current one also being crap.

It has the energy of a failing resteraunt owner screaming about a customer base they see in their heads, but not understanding they're in the hole and already losing that anyway.
They've made shit so bad some of their Abused Wives have actually stopped consooming.
Sadly the ones with zero standards and no gagreflex are still hanging around here with their tepid takes on how Disney could salvage their latest cash-grab nostalgia bait.

I mean, at this point who is the target audience if not Disney management?
 
Can someone explain to me why whenever The Phantom Menace becomes the center of discussion in this thread people keep making the claim it would've worked better as a TV series?
Because a lot of the plot of that movie feels rushed, halfbaked, neglected and not fleshed out. The decent ideas in TPM got butchered by being condensed into a movie.
 
Also amusing that there's this delusion current Zahn would be able to do anything correctly. He had is own faults and foibles even before he declined in quality as a writer. And yes, he has declined noticeably as one; there's a reason people only try to remember his works from the 1990s to early 2000s.
I mean, one of Zahn's recent Thrawn books literally had a scene where Padme takes a break from the conflict at hand to visit the planet from Disney's Galaxy's Edge Park, and sample items from the theme park menu in a shallow, transparent advertisement for the park. Another book retconned the name "Skywalker" into being the Chiss word for "Wayfinder", in order to better tie into the McGuffins featured in The Rise of Skywalker.

B-But, no, guise. Zahn totally isn't a hack writer well past his prime when working in the world of Star Wars. He had a gun pressed to his temple when he included all that garbage. It totally wasn't him, I promise!!!1!
 
I wouldn't make TPM a miniseries. I would've actually changed the timeline completely, have Anakin already be a Jedi under Obi-Wan Kenobi, and have the plot be based around the opening days of the Clone Wars/Civil War with the Separatist Droid Army invading a neutral, unaligned Naboo. You could basically do the whole plot that way, just change some set-dressing. To me Star Wars is inherently about Anakin Skywalker/Luke Skywalker, and thus everything should service that to a certain degree. I think making him a child and somewhat secondary to the events of TPM was a mistake.
 
I think making him a child and somewhat secondary to the events of TPM was a mistake.

However, it was central to the fall of Anikin and his redemption. His attachment to his mother, unable to save her. Lead him to the darkside. He wanted the power to never let his family die again. In the end he learnt he can save his family with out seeking that power.
 
However, it was central to the fall of Anikin and his redemption. His attachment to his mother, unable to save her. Lead him to the darkside. He wanted the power to never let his family die again. In the end he learnt he can save his family with out seeking that power.
I get that but I don't think that making him almost a comic relief secondary character in TPM was the way to convey this. They could've done something similar while still allowing him to actually be a main character/mover.
 
I don't want to be that prick, but I hated Filoni waaay before Assoka and all the other new shit.
I thought The Clone Wars was meh, which broke my heart because when I was a kid, I fucking adored Clone Troopers. Rebels looked so shit I would never bother with it, and thank God I didn't. So when I heard he was headlining the "Return to Form for Star Wars!!!" I instantly smelled bullshit. I was right, and I do feel schadenfreude for it, and no series about the OC Donut Steel he refuses to let the fuck go, messing up the Mandalorian in spectacular fashion, and shoving all his other uninteresting characters down our throats is going to change my mind.

Someone may have said this already, but what gets me is how he fucks up all the great shit, like Thrawn turns from a remnant Imperial Officer that nearly brings the New Republic to its knees to a fat, lame looking Deus Ex Machina/Plot device, putting OG characters in the background for his own, and God knows more. But there is one thing for me to prove this guy is a fucking talentless hack: Order 66.
The most devastating betrayal and crushing of the forces of Light/Order is turned fucking worthless in a single retcon that he helped create.

What is more interesting: a whole army provided to the Republic/Jedi so loyal and obedient that they are the finest army the Galaxy has ever seen, but for that same reason can be turned by a single Order, one of the multitude they were taught from creation to follow in machine like fashion and without second guessing or any emotion, killing the commanders and leaders they fought for and alongside because they knew no other option since birth?

Or: lol its just a brainchip that can be turned like a light switch.

Jesus Christ. Who the fuck would trust a guy that turns a heartbreaking realization that Clones were little more than fleshy, Kiwi-accented robots that follow orders with no argument or personal opposition into something so obvious and in your face it seems like it was written for the stupidest kid to understand why they betrayed the Jedi?
 
I get that but I don't think that making him almost a comic relief secondary character in TPM was the way to convey this. They could've done something similar while still allowing him to actually be a main character/mover.

I get there are issues. The flip side of it is what we got with Rey. I think Lucas probably stumbled onto this problem when planning the sequels. His solution was to start with him as a kid.

JJ and Disney's was to just ignore any back story.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: The Nothingness
I mean, one of Zahn's recent Thrawn books literally had a scene where Padme takes a break from the conflict at hand to visit the planet from Disney's Galaxy's Edge Park, and sample items from the theme park menu in a shallow, transparent advertisement for the park. Another book retconned the name "Skywalker" into being the Chiss word for "Wayfinder", in order to better tie into the McGuffins featured in The Rise of Skywalker.

B-But, no, guise. Zahn totally isn't a hack writer well past his prime when working in the world of Star Wars. He had a gun pressed to his temple when he included all that garbage. It totally wasn't him, I promise!!!1!
Most of them have to work with Disney one way or another. Surprise, surprise, the real world operates differently from some dank forum on the internet where you can whine and bitch and moan about your corporate overlords. The workplace is a different game entirely. If you wrote a SW novel today and it didn't include Disney's stuff, or you openly tried to fuck with their established canon, then it's not getting published. Especially when Disney was trying to promote things like Galaxy's Edge and Rise of Skywalker.

Welcome to the corporate world, kid. You either play ball with the boss, or you don't play at all. Lucas was more liberal in this regard, but thanks to all the Prequel-haters who kept blasting the man as the cinematic equivalent of "Worse than Satan", he left and sold the farm to Disney. Star Wars as a franchise is now the private property of the Mouse, it's not some story that's in the public domain where you can write your own story that gives the Sequels the middle finger. And if you tried to make money off it without their approval, at the best case scenario, you're fired, in the worst case, sued.

Ah yes, more Dolchstoßlegende mixed with 'grass is greener' hindsight to provide apologia for flawed work that could have been made better. And that is the problem; with a second draft the prequels would've actually been far more likely to match the potential you can see in them. And yes, there are genuinely bad moments in those films a second draft or punch up would've fixed. People usually do not deserve shit films simply because of wanting something to be better.
But we DID get better, didn't we? We got the Clone Wars Multimedia Project which showed the Prequels from some very interesting angles. We had the KOTOR games which were, in essence, a soft reboot of the OT but re-told in a different time period. We got the Clone Wars cartoon by Genndy Tartakovsky, which showed the Clone Wars better than the Prequels did, with a Grievous who was a legitimate threat and massive battles that fit the galaxy-spanning scale of the Clone Wars. We had games like the Republic Commando game, which showed a grittier side to the Clone Wars, the Battlefront 2 game, which showed the clones' side of the story as they went from soldiers of the Republic to Imperial Stormtroopers, we had the Episode III game which at some points, did some things better than the films.

The reason why I wasn't so mad at the flaws of the Prequels is because they were a thimble in the sea of content that we were drowning in, most of which was good. And yes, since Lucas' company made all this stuff, and he handed out paychecks to the people who did the work, it does count as his output, even if it was indirectly. Lucas was humble enough to say "let others take a crack at it" because he knew he was flawed. Other directors or creators wouldn't be so liberal with their work.

Heck, Lucas even added things from the EU to the Prequels, like Coruscant being the capital, the Jedi Council, and even Anakin got a scar in his face in between AOTC and ROTS because one of the comics had Ventress give him one. It was a shared universe in the best sense of the word, because 90% of the time, they paid attention to even the minor details like a scar in someone's face, and even though Lucas was far from perfect, the end result of this shared universe was that the SW universe was far deeper and richer than most sci-fi series.

I also don't particularly care for the whole artificial overemphasis of a portion of a fragmenting and dying fanbase that's been repeated more and more often as of late. I genuinely think we're in the "you're losing money no matter what" period here. There isn't enough of a fanbase to even bother with it, since you turned them off. And casuals ain't watching because of the previous piles of crap and the current one also being crap.
That's because people are getting bored. Even if Ahsoka was AAA+ good, it'd just be a retread of themes and ideas that we've already seen before. Maybe they were gonna do something different with Baylan, but with the actor dead, that shit's on hiatus until they recast him.

It has the energy of a failing resteraunt owner screaming about a customer base they see in their heads, but not understanding they're in the hole and already losing that anyway.
Like I said, Star Wars proper died in 2005 with the films finishing off. The EU died after the sale. Everything else is just fanfiction. TFA and Rogue One was fanfiction for Prequel-haters, TLJ and RoS was fanfiction for SJWs, and the Filoniverse is fanfiction for TCW fans who were little kids back in 2008 when that show first aired.

I guarantee this was added so Dave's clone trooper OCs can't die.
It was more along the lines of Filoni wanting to pull the whole "DINDU NUFFIN" shit with the clones after he "humanized" them. God forbid the clones might have political beliefs that would make them trust the Chancellor more than the Jedi. Like say, the fact that the Chancellor appears to many people as the only person holding the Republic together in trying times? Or maybe some clones just doesn't like the Jedi because the Jedi general they were stuck with was too much of a pansy to let them commit war crimes on Separatist civilia-I mean, traitors?
 
Last edited:
I guarantee this was added so Dave's clone trooper OCs can't die.
No because he could've just had it that the Clones decided, independently, not to follow the Order. It was really introduced because The Clone Wars is a kids show and he is a show-writer who has been specializing in writing for an adolescent audience. It's bad optics for the kids show when Rex and the rest of the main Clone cast are, up until they weren't, canonically present with Lord Vader at the Temple when they decided to go Columbine on it.
 
@RA-5C Vigilante

Why would being correct make you a prick?
Because the totally real and organic and not doing it for free-corpsec, cope-sucking hatewatchers, employees LARPing as "fans", or the people who just watched TCW as a kid tried for the longest time to defend Dave for a variety of reasons. It's only been since Andor came out I've seen serious efforts to actually point out how he's actually pretty bad by himself due to his not giving a single shit about planning and doing things because he wants to.

By the way, I've seen a bit of effort by the cope-suckers that now it's Favreau who is untouched. It's really sad to watch the justification for why they're more fucked than the Sonic fanbase at this point. At least Sonic fans had actual developmental delays and the occasional mid-to-sort of good game or product even now to excuse it.
 
What is more interesting: a whole army provided to the Republic/Jedi so loyal and obedient that they are the finest army the Galaxy has ever seen, but for that same reason can be turned by a single Order, one of the multitude they were taught from creation to follow in machine like fashion and without second guessing or any emotion, killing the commanders and leaders they fought for and alongside because they knew no other option since birth?

Or: lol its just a brainchip that can be turned like a light switch.

I want you to think about this; Imagine a story about a clone who has a great relationship with his Jedi general to the point he warns them about Order 66 and joins them going on the run. The clone has to bite back, resisting with every ounce of their being the issued kill order that they know is wrong but is so deep the urge to take a blaster to their friend's skull never stops and they dream about murdering their greatest friend.

And then realize that is totally lame compared to a story about just turning off the murder signal so we can have clones riding wolves and following a stronk orange girl into the space-time anus.
 
Back