2023 Israel-Palestine Armed Conflict

If I was an Israeli living out there where these raids happened, I'd be beyond angry. I'd be fucking livid. The government there makes it so hard to own a firearm to defend myself and my family that it's not even worth trying, and at the same time promises that the IDF/Police will protect you?

Then, in response to what happened they just drop a bunch of ordinance on enemy buildings and then stop? No actual ground invasion to root those fuckers out and kill them once and for all? I'd be saying fuck Israel right about now.

This home invasion raid shit would have ended very quickly where I live, or never even have been attempted, and I don't need to say why.
 
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ffo kcuF said:
I've not seen this video debunked yet so here it is. To me this does look and sound like a JDAM.

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But this GeoConfirmed thread is also quite convincing.

Gotta say though I'm leaning towards a plane dropped JDAM based on the explosion.
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No idea. It was 'something' that dropped from the sky that's 100% for sure (assuming the video is real).

Missile or bomb? It seems it was travelling at speed, does a gravity bomb make that noise and go that fast? If it was a missile it was packing a significant warhead. Either way it's apparent that, no Hamas did not bomb their own civilians unless Iran has supplied them with no shit cruise missiles and there's no evidence of that.

So why did Israel decide to bomb a fucking hospital? It makes no sense even if they suspected Hamas was operating out of it. The optics of this are cataclysmic, they've lost all of the moral goodwill built up post Hamas attack, especially outside the west. I know there are as many nutjobs on the Israeli side as the Palestinian so maybe it doesn't have to make sense, maybe it is what it is and we'll now live with the consequences.
 
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Why are people assuming that all the people were inside? A lot of these people were not there because they were using the hospital. There seems to be a courtyard or open space. It didn't need to be powerful to do a lot of human damage. Add to that some kind of secondary fuel and you get a really bad place to be hanging out.

I can't believe there are not more images coming out of what is the number one global story? The media keeps posting other destroyed buildings and bodies being taken away.. There are press there taking pics.
 
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Isn't it amazing that over the years of Palestinian missiles flying over, and being intecepted over Gaza and Israel, this one missile happens to be shot down onto a hospital and this one missile also has enough of a payload to level the entire building?

You'd think this kind of thing would happen more often.
 
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attractive_pneumonia said:
Because you can hear a fucking jet flying overhead at the time, if you can hear the jet the bomb is already in flight. I wish people would stop fucking commenting when they have zero idea what kind of equipment Hamas uses. Their rockets are little more than the grenades dropped via drones in Ukraine. Their rockets are mainly propellant and see that cone? Its about the size a 40mm mortar round. If you think this dinky fucking rocket caused that explosion you need to get your fucking head checked, these things are more useful in just expending Israel's (more like the American) military budget via Iron Dome intercepts, these missiles cost a few hundred dollars in material, the Iron Dome / Patriot batteries cost 100k USD an intercept. These missiles barely blow up a car with a direct hit, blowing up a hospital and generating an explosion with such force that you get a visible shockwave is beyond them. It was just mere chance that Hamas or whomever was firing off rockets at the same time as this JDAM being dropped.

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There are jets and drones flying all the time there. That is meaningless. Also the PIJ was launching these MASSIVE rockets. And idk man I saw LIVE on Aljazeera a rocket take off, break up and fall. During the same time other rockets were flying into Israel. It doesn't take a lot of thinking to understand this.
 
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Givi said:
To kill 500 people, you'd need a considerably more powerful projectile than the rockets Hamas is generally capable of building and operating
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You are exactly right.

The widely shared video of the strike on the hospital has a very pronounced audio Doppler effect of the ordinance, followed by the explosion.

Hospital Explosion Video


This indicates that it came from the air.

- At 3:42PM ET, the Israeli government official Twitter feed posted a surveillance video claiming that the hospital strike was an errant Hamas rocket.

- The Israeli government then edited the tweet at 4:04 PM ET to DELETE the video evidence they had attached earlier.

Most of the rockets Hamas possesses barely have warheads that are larger than 10kg.

Screenshot_20231017-225712.png

The ordinance that hit that hospital had a warhead that is clearly MUCH larger than the largest Qassam rocket which Hamas possesses.

Furthermore, the amount of damage indicates that it was probably at least a 500lb bomb. The projectile's pronounced Doppler effect, its speed and brisance, coupled with it's high incident angle and accuracy to target indicates that it was probably a smart bomb, possibly a US manufactured JDAM.

This suggests it came from someone with air superiority, smart bombs, and access to Gaza.

It's not a long list of suspects.

EDIT: As I was posting this, I noticed someone shared an analysis claiming the explosion was an errant Hamas rocket which broke up in flight (possibly due to interception by Israeli air defences) Although that scenario seems very unlikely to me (for the reasons I described above), here is the direct link for the opposite take to my perspective.

 
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quackrock said:
There isn't total silence though, not in the hospital bombing clip. The ripping/whistling noise is what everyone's comparing to JDAM impact videos.
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The marines were talking over the incoming, so the half second before impact obscures the whoosh on their potato camera from 12 years ago, but its still there. Plus all ballistic incomings tend to have a "whoosh", that's not really the give away. The give away is how long the woosh lasts. Guided bombs woosh for at least a second or two, while rockets whoosh you ded in half a second.

Example


Also, the blast cloud is different in a rocket strike vs. JDAM. Rocket strikes give a more area effect cloud while JDAMS tend to produce the mushroom. There wasn't a Mushroom in this case in Gaza.
 
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Feline Supremacist said:
The Biden Administration, or better said, a faction within the administration, was working towards normalizing relations between the two, and was making good progress. Now all that hard work has gone up in smoke (no pun intended).
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Which is exactly what a lot of people speculated was the point of the Hamas attack in the first place.
 
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mindlessobserver said:
Thank you!

That was not a JDAM. It was a Ground to Ground Rocket. Example impact.


Note the similar blast spread, and the total silence except in the moment right before impact. 1 to 1.

Bet big money this was an Israeli Army strike, which is why the Air Force and Strategic leadership were spinning their wheels, and was fired in response to the rocket that went up and made a big radar target. Probably an Israeli ground launched Predator Hawk. They knew the hospital was near the launch site so they fired what they thought was a precision weapon, but fucked up somehow.
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Could be, but still looks closer to a JDAM to me.



Like others have said, I don't think Hamas rockets have the power to cause a blast that big, unless caused some kind of secondary explosion.
 
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Black Spruce said:
It's funny how overextended israel is whenever they try to make up propaganda. With this particular incident, they warned he people there they'd bomb the hospital, then posted on twitter an hour before the bombing even happened that a Hamas rocket backfired and blew it up and used a video from August 2022 as evidence. It's no wonder the generational gap is unreal when it comes to support of israel. Social media, particularly community notes on twitter just BTFOs propaganda within minutes of it first being posted.
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1.png
ok Google

Kane Lives said:
I'm mostly more curious at this point why the IDF regarded it as a target. Was Hamas using it as a firing spot?
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I am sure after the "Roof knock" warning they considered it a legit target if they had some sort intel that Hamas was in there or ammo or what ever.
But unless there was a nuke in that basement I don't think anything in there was worth the blowback JDAMing the only Christian hospital in the whole place filled with woman and children is going to cause. And the fact they had zero PR or narrative buttoned up shows how they didn't even think doing this would be a big deal
Or maybe its just some weird jew power move to lay a nice shit sandwitch for Biden to eat when he lands there.
Mop it up goy, and hurry up with that $100 billion "aid" package. Don't forget to tell the world how you back Israel 100%
 
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ffo kcuF said:
Could be, but still looks closer to a JDAM to me.

View attachment 5423258

Like others have said, I don't think Hamas rockets have the power to cause a blast that big, unless caused some kind of secondary explosion.
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On this we can agree. No way whatever bottlerockets Hamas is firing could have produced a blast like that. It was either a JDAM or modern Ground Attack Rocket for sure. I lean towards the latter obviously, but either way Israel definitely did it. The Army doing it, with all its reservists wielding toys they don't understand makes more sense then the Air Force deliberately dropping a JDAM on a hospital though.

And for the reasons previously stated, the blast tends to support a Predator Hawk given the wrong target data then an IAF pilot wanting to crater a hospital.
 
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Breadbassket said:
Israel may get some cash from the USA soon.

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The last tidbit of them including border money is just salt on the wound. Millions are pouring through the border, with most just being dumped throughout the United States. They cost hundreds of billions per year. And they ain't going home.

Yet Ukraine and Israel can have blood and soil nationalism, with Israel getting the bulk of the money and Ukraine getting crumbs. Zelenskyy is about to discover he's the little man now.
LaxerBRO said:
Another scenario:
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Consequences of no longer being energy dependent. That'll pass on to Israel, too.
Feline Supremacist said:
It's official: The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and Israel have broken up.

View attachment 5423187

They aren't even friends anymore; KSA called Israel the "occupation forces".

Too bad, they made such a good couple.
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Aww, poor Jared Kushner. All that work as America's Jewish president gone in an instant.
behindyourightnow said:
Until you can honestly answer that you would prefer to have the Hamas guy taking his trash out next to yours every day, all the talk about "both sides are killing children" is just performative bullshit.
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If the Hamas neighbor doesn't shoot my dog ad might have a cagey relationship. I'd much rather have a Persian or an Iraqi. They can open up actual businesses vs living on welfare.
Wahgonga said:
Then, in response to what happened they just drop a bunch of ordinance on enemy buildings and then stop? No actual ground invasion to root those fuckers out and kill them once and for all? I'd be saying fuck Israel right about now.

This home invasion raid shit would have ended very quickly where I live, or never even have been attempted, and I don't need to say why.
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It's mostly optics at this point, because they've got a lot of Arabs mad at them. But then Palestinians will keep doing what they're doing: act like Gypsies, be a drain on whatever host country has them, and fight with the Jews there. They could have routed Hamas with strategic operations yet decided to bomb everything instead. In any case this won't quell the Palestinians. The chimpouts elsewhere show it.
 
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Wahgonga said:
If I was an Israeli living out there where these raids happened, I'd be beyond angry. I'd be fucking livid. The government there makes it so hard to own a firearm to defend myself and my family that it's not even worth trying, and at the same time promises that the IDF/Police will protect you?

Then, in response to what happened they just drop a bunch of ordinance on enemy buildings and then stop? No actual ground invasion to root those fuckers out and kill them once and for all? I'd be saying fuck Israel right about now.

This home invasion raid shit would have ended very quickly where I live, or never even have been attempted, and I don't need to say why.
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They hand weapons out like candy to illegal settlers but dont let their legitimate citizens clode to Hamas get them, sigh. Thats messed up if its true.
 
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