Plummeting Birthrates Watch Thread - The horrifying implications of living in a Children of Men situation.

[SIMIΔN]

The world can't take billions more humans as it is, with climate change and other ecocides we are committing on it.

We can take billions more Africans. We cannot take them being as polluting as the developed world.
The pro-immigration Green Party is a joke, immigrants from undeveloped countries are far more polluting here, then they would be back home.

 

[Mary the Goldsmith]

Ok, I'll do my part and save the world, just don't get mad at me when the number of retards skyrockets in a few years

 

[Judge Dredd]

Have them plummet from 5 billion to around 100 million when they struggle to give up the conveniences of bread and circuses they had for so long.

I don't think it's good times creating this problem. If it was, we'd see birth rates spike in times of economic crisis, but we see is the opposite.

The cause seems to be that there is some crisis, usually economical. People put off having kids until things stablise. But either things never stablise, or they keep putting it off and putting it off ...only to find themselves infertile. Literally the genius family from the opening of Idiocracy.

People want kids, but can't have them. Birthgap goes into this. But the short version is the people starting families are having the same number of kids at the same rates they always have. It's that people with 0 kids shot up dramatically, and keeps going.

This is why discussing solutions is a difficult one. So many topics are unpleasant or mean admitting some hated group is right. For example-

Like right now most countries dont have gender specific laws regarding family court both can become primary custody holder, the asset split works both ways regardless who made what during the marriage.

On paper, yes. In practice, not so much. I'm sure the statistics of child support or who gets the kids are somewhere, but I don't have them on hand and I'm too lazy to get them. All I have are stories (both online, and in real life) of fathers getting fucked by family court. eg. Someone I know having to get solicitors involved to get his name off a mortgage for a house he wasn't living in any more.

But even if we say you're 100% correct (you do have a bingo card after all). Let's say that family court bullshit is a myth. That means the perception of bias is enough to make it so some men aren't willing to take the risk of dating or having kids in current year.

I don't have the money to have children. No one's going to miss my contribution to genetics. I think a lot of people feel that way. "I'm poor. Me not having kids won't make a dent in anything". Lots of people feel the world sucks too much to bring kids into it. Or they live in areas where they feel it's unsafe and they have little prospect of affording better.

This is the problem I think. Lots of people don't want kids, which is fine. Lots of people want kids but can't have them for one reason or another. Others want kids and can have them, but keep putting it off until it's too late.

2047 (give or take a few years) is predicted to be when the housing market recovers as that's when enough boomers will have died off to make the housing market normalise again. I won't be surprised if the birthrates recover a few years after that.

The problem of birthrates isn't that the developed world is having too little kids but that the developing world is having WAY too many kids

Well I have good news and bad news. The middle east and africa are already showing the early factors leading to a decline. It's a problem that's hitting the whole planet, it's just developed nations got a head start.

 

[CowPox]

I'm convinced that the answer to the fermi paradox is a form of altruism in which planets that develop intelligent life always have multiple races of intelligent life one the highly dominant and the others less so and the most wretched of all these sub races in the end rises to inherit the world, after years of building technological society the master race in the end allows and probably encourages the lowly races to proliferate until all advanced technologies are lost to their ignorance and the high iq is totally bred out.

In the dark moments of my life i look to the night sky and with a shiver face the possibility that it is literally just full of niggers.

 

[mofu mofo]

But maybe people could connect better if they did things the old fashioned way more often.

 

[Otterly]

We can’t carry on with the weird ponzi infinite growth stuff. Not until we get into space. Earth is a finite system
Pensions and social security are based in permanent growth. So is a lot of our economy, like growth targets per year for shareholders.
We DO need to hit a sustainable and reasonable carrying rate for population. That’s simply true, the earth is a finite system. And yes you could technically pack billions of us into the Isle of Wight I know but that’s miserable. Nobody wants to live at that density. The carrying capacity of earth for the quality of life we want is lower
So to have QoL we need to adjust to lower population. But the shock of doing that is going to be really bad. We will have to adjust the welfare system and pensions, and there will be a while where the third world is still breeding and flooding us.
Our elites also have all these utterly regarded ideas like net zero and smart cities which won’t solve anything but will make us all even more miserable and less likely to breed. We need much better, human centred ideas on how to manage the transition. Repatriation amd a block on mass immigration would help, while we try to get native birth rates up. If we can get through the next 200 years without going under I think we will be ok but it’s going to be nasty to get there

 

[teriyakiburns]

Our elites also have all these utterly regarded ideas like net zero and smart cities which won’t solve anything but will make us all even more miserable and less likely to breed.

For all the talk of population reduction and control, the WEF's ideas for the future are still predicated firmly on the idea of perpetual growth and consumption. They want to replace property ownership with property rental and then encourage ever greater volumes of temporary possession instead of one-time acquisition. They'll eventually have to concede population growth is necessary to sustain their new utopia, which just puts us right back in the same problem again.

 

[MMS-China]

We DO need to hit a sustainable and reasonable carrying rate for population. That’s simply true, the earth is a finite system.

 

[AgendaPoster]

Don't you worry that anime head of yours Lunar
We have a LOT of True and Honest women here.
We will make good use of them and fix the birthrates, once and for all.
Now, there might be questions about the genetic quality of such a wild endeavor, but fear not and trust the science.

 

[Ultrapenguin]

I think the reproductive issue is an existential one, not a logical economic one.

We've created an environment that's hostile to the species, and I think until people collectively accept that at the foundation of everything we've done we are still animals with animal needs and can't separate ourselves from that, the problem won't abate, no matter how productive the economy is.

Nobody wants to make that a priority though, because it's inconvenient in the short term.
It's no different from how addressing environmental/ecological issues is inconvenient, and as a result tons of other species have dwindled or gone extinct because their existence is incongruent to the march of progress.

But whenever issues like this come up online it seems like people tend towards talking about money, I guess because in the psyche of the spiritually deprived white westerner the system can solve anything so long as you throw enough money at it.

Culture needs to reflect that these types of human issues are a necessity worth sacrificing productivity over. That's the simple truth.

 

[DJ McHamfist]

Feminism and women moving into the workplace has a lot to answer for, collapse of the family unit, the economy being fucked, real-term wage decreases, as well as this shit.

Idiot women buying into the "girl power" bullshit while giving up the incredible power they always had, and big business blowing the feminism horn while rubbing their hands together as they continue to fail to pay the living wages that used to be able to support an entire family on one income.

We get what we fucking deserve.

 

[Alex Hogendorp]

The problem of birthrates isn't that the developed world is having too little kids but that the developing world is having WAY too many kids, as OP's post states:

The world can't take billions more humans as it is, with climate change and other ecocides we are committing on it. Highly educated, affluent people in well-developed societies have the happiest lives with the highest life expectancy and quality of health, be it Iceland, Sweden or Japan. They may not have great birth rates, but it's not like the relatively small mountainous archipelago nation of Japan really needs more the 120 million people on it.

I never liked the idea of Anti-natalism nor do I subscribe to climate scams. We have more resources than we think. The real factor is today's population isn't equipped with the harsh world compared to their ancestors. South Korea's population risen dramatically in the 1960s because people are more than capable of raising a child in a harsh environment. Now they're no longer capable and the population is beginning to fall dramatically.

 

[Rome's rightful successor]

And for those wondering.

• Financial incentives won't work because it's yet more tax that will be moved around and doesn't address the actual problems. It could also creates incentive for other social problems caused by people having kids they don't want just for the payout. Cutting tax and lowering the cost of housing, living, etc. might work, but that's one of those options you're not allowed to discuss.
• Mass immigration won't work because their populations are also starting to collapse. They also don't integrate and create a tax burden, meaning less money for the financial incentives.
• Automation might work, but that assumes a lot of things will be made and go off as planned. Given that things like drone delivery and self driving cars have been "a few years away" for over a decade now, the idea of an almost totally automated economy is not one we can rely on.

What about economic downsizing? Could that be a solution?

 

[Butterschmalz]

What about economic downsizing? Could that be a solution?

Absolutely. If you choose to have kids nowadays, you choose to be poor. And you need to live rural or semi rural...but you can have kids.

 

[Alex Hogendorp]

Absolutely. If you choose to have kids nowadays, you choose to be poor. And you need to live rural or semi rural...but you can have kids.

Maybe that's part of the reason why the World Economic Forum is so desperate for 15 minute cities and FEMA camps.

 

[John Freeman]

I think the reproductive issue is an existential one, not a logical economic one.

We've created an environment that's hostile to the species, and I think until people collectively accept that at the foundation of everything we've done we are still animals with animal needs and can't separate ourselves from that, the problem won't abate, no matter how productive the economy is.

Nobody wants to make that a priority though, because it's inconvenient in the short term.
It's no different from how addressing environmental/ecological issues is inconvenient, and as a result tons of other species have dwindled or gone extinct because their existence is incongruent to the march of progress.

But whenever issues like this come up online it seems like people tend towards talking about money, I guess because in the psyche of the spiritually deprived white westerner the system can solve anything so long as you throw enough money at it.

Culture needs to reflect that these types of human issues are a necessity worth sacrificing productivity over. That's the simple truth.

To be fair, coordination on the scale required to decommission all fossil-fuel based infrastructure in synchronicity (without causing a massive holocaust) would be the most expensive undertaking in human history. That kind of collaboration is unprecedented and not viable in the current sociopolitical environment, where most superpowers are run by petulant man-children who are only interested in preserving their lifestyles and leveraging their advantages over the peons.

 

[Lichen Bark]

the asset split

There's the rub, you make the wrong decision and what took 3 generations to build could be wiped out in a blink of an eye. It's pretty risky to say the least, but that's really putting the cart before the horse.

I fell for the never settle psyop in college, and since leaving that environment I just don't meet anyone anymore. I avoid social media like the plague, and I really don't want to sell my data to Match Group. It's like there's nobody around, and only geriatrics hold any kind of local club get-togethers. Then rule out the Fauci ouchie enjoyers, from the dating pool, and things are looking, uhm... Welp...

 

[Judge Dredd]

But whenever issues like this come up online it seems like people tend towards talking about money, I guess because in the psyche of the spiritually deprived white westerner the system can solve anything so long as you throw enough money at it.

Culture needs to reflect that these types of human issues are a necessity worth sacrificing productivity over. That's the simple truth.

The two are linked.

I've mentioned house prices a lot because most people need somewhere private to go at some point. If you want to start a family, you need space to do that. No one wants to raise a kid from a single room in a shared flat.

Animal needs like personal space, food, shelter, and comfort, are not things you can have when you're constantly struggling to make rent.

 

[Justa Grata Honoria]

On paper, yes. In practice, not so much. I'm sure the statistics of child support or who gets the kids are somewhere, but I don't have them on hand and I'm too lazy to get them. All I have are stories (both online, and in real life) of fathers getting fucked by family court. eg. Someone I know having to get solicitors involved to get his name off a mortgage for a house he wasn't living in any more.

But even if we say you're 100% correct (you do have a bingo card after all). Let's say that family court bullshit is a myth. That means the perception of bias is enough to make it so some men aren't willing to take the risk of dating or having kids in current year.

all I get this when it comes to custody split in usa there is separate statistics in norway

Determining Custody


In just over 51% of custody decisions, both parents agree that the mother should become the custodial parent. In roughly 29% of custody decisions, this is made without any assistance from the court or from a mediator. 11% are determined with the assistance of a mediator, and 5% are determined following a custody evaluation. By comparison, only 4% of custody cases require going to trial before primary custody is decided. Overall, 91% of custody decisions do not require the family court to decide.

https://erlichlegal.com/blog/single-fathers-single-mothers-child-custody-statistics/

In norway btw is only a third of the man are primary cutodians irl from what i have met half of the men are 50\50 straight up custody the other half are i see my kids one weeked per month even though the norwegian social services fucking hate quareling parents and even more one parent not letting the other to see the kid you get mediators+ handholders the minute you split like staight up you get couples counceling etc ( and you will lose custody both of you if you cant behave and your kids will be sent to homes) . Just to give you an idea a chick in long term living together relationship got accidentally pregnant guy goes REEE LYING WHORE GOT ON PUPRPOUSE PREGNAT ignoring the fact that birth control can fail kicks her out while pregnant ,now you would think this warrants scorched earth tactics because a she was pregnant b they were ltr living together c if he didnt wanted kids he could have gotten vasectomy. I have no idea what the social services have done and how they managed it but they coparent peacefully and have ok relationship. Like that level of state hates you using your kids as a cudgel and they will twist your arms on both of you to behave and yet half of the men have mininal involvment in their kids lives nothing is preventing them to have 50\50 custody.

Now i can go on personal stories about men using custody as a cudgel to get out of child support payments as in giving permission the wife to move back the country she came from where she has support network and the man is like yeah but sing off here so i dont pay you. Women getting fuck out of property or money , men using kids to extort better split of the assets, men using the courts to dragg on the asset spliting for a decade while they live rent free in their house , men getting domestic violence conviction and yet the woman cant access the property and so on.

There's the rub, you make the wrong decision and what took 3 generations to build could be wiped out in a blink of an eye. It's pretty risky to say the least, but that's really putting the cart before the horse.

I fell for the never settle psyop in college, and since leaving that environment I just don't meet anyone anymore. I avoid social media like the plague, and I really don't want to sell my data to Match Group. It's like there's nobody around, and only geriatrics hold any kind of local club get-togethers. Then rule out the Fauci ouchie enjoyers, from the dating pool, and things are looking, uhm... Welp...

View attachment 5443922

Nigger bite the bullet go on them , I got my ex husband and the current one off the dating apps. Though be warned is saturated with trash and can be frustrating at times you going to need a lot of patientce and several dating apps+ sites to get anything out of it. I am woman btw if anything matters if you need more advise write me on the profile since we are going really of toppic here.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Nigger bite the bullet go on them , I got my ex husband and the current one off the dating apps. Though be warned is saturated with trash

What a great endorsement. I'm certainly convinced.

What about economic downsizing? Could that be a solution?

I didn't reply to this because @Butterschmalz already did. Some people I know work part time, making just enough to get by in a shared place, and use their free time to pursue things they care about like art or travel. Boomers hate these people, calling them "lazy millennials/zoomers", and they aren't having kids, but at least they have something in their life.

But thinking about it on a national level, it might be viable but unlikely to happen.

As has been beaten to death throughout the thread, boomers and the managerial class only care about "line go up". Their current understanding of economics is built on a pyramid scheme that works as long as each generation is larger than the previous one to pay into the system. Tearing that standard up in favour of sustainable stability is not one they want to entertain.

What's more, in the UK at least, such downsizing would mean cuts that are political suicide. No more artificially inflating house prices? Boomers would never allow because their entire net worth is tied up in what they were told is an evergreen housing market. Shutting down the money sink that is the NHS? Not going to happen as boomers are old and dependent on it.