2023 Israel-Palestine Armed Conflict

[Maori Kiwifruit Growers]

Why does everyone become humanitarians and experts on international law as well as the Geneva Conventions when Israel is involved in a conflict and never really mentions any other conflict? Unless there’s an 800+ thread about the Sudanese civil war and people sperging about the horrors being committed there I’m missing?

It's because it's da jooz and nothing similar.


The fact is is that under UN law and under the Geneva convention, genocide has a very specific definition. A definition that regardless to what you think israel has never met. When genocide is officially met then the United Nations has to get involved. Genocide is what the serbians did the Germans did and what the Rwandans did. Israel is not creating a genocide because Israel is nowhere staying that the Palestinian people cannot exist. They are saying that the government which governs the Gaza strip cannot exist. That is a difference. If today the Israeli government came out and said that all Arabs all Palestinians must be cleaned from the land and must be killed then that is considered genocide. Sure some people believe it, but they're not in power. It is a state sanctioned killing which is important.

 

[JustSomeDong]

It's because it's da jooz and nothing similar.


The fact is is that under UN law and under the Geneva convention, genocide has a very specific definition. A definition that regardless to what you think israel has never met. When genocide is officially met then the United Nations has to get involved. Genocide is what the serbians did the Germans did and what the Rwandans did. Israel is not creating a genocide because Israel is nowhere staying that the Palestinian people cannot exist. They are saying that the government which governs the Gaza strip cannot exist. That is a difference. If today the Israeli government came out and said that all Arabs all Palestinians must be cleaned from the land and must be killed then that is considered genocide. Sure some people believe it, but they're not in power. It is a state sanctioned killing which is important.

 

[EyeGuy]

Another from Sayeret Givati. Total IDF losses at 66 now:

 

[AgendaPoster]

Unless the hostage was injured near shifa and then the question is raised, what was the hostage doing there?

For people that don't understand, most hospitals have a specialty. Not all are able to treat severe trauma and shooting victims. In such cases you stabilize the patient so you can take it to a place that's prepared to deal with the injury.
You won't take a shooting victim with multiple chest wounds to Dermatology or Oto-Rhino-Laryngology.

 

[Catch The Rainbow]

For people that don't understand, most hospitals have a specialty. Not all are able to treat severe trauma and shooting victims. In such cases you stabilize the patient so you can take it to a place that's prepared to deal with the injury.
You won't take a shooting victim with multiple chest wounds to Dermatology or Oto-Rhino-Laryngology.

You're really gonna argue that hospitals in Gaza aren't experienced with handling trauma and shooting victims?

 

[AgendaPoster]

You're really gonna argue that hospitals in Gaza aren't experienced with handling trauma and shooting victims?

I just told you the POTENTIAL reasoning of that journey. The distance is small cause Gaza is small. You need a proper hospital with a proper surgical theater. I am unwilling to waste 20 mins of my time seeing what specialty those hospitals are, and even then, it could still be true that Hamas took them there cause they had some connection to the hospital with tunnels and it was easiest to take the hostage in the tunnels after surgery.
Things I just can't really know.

 

[MidUSA]

For people that don't understand, most hospitals have a specialty. Not all are able to treat severe trauma and shooting victims. In such cases you stabilize the patient so you can take it to a place that's prepared to deal with the injury.
You won't take a shooting victim with multiple chest wounds to Dermatology or Oto-Rhino-Laryngology.

I would imagine you bring a shooting victim to the nearest hospital, they get stabilized there; and then, if needed, they get transfered to specialist care.

 

[AgendaPoster]

I would imagine you bring a shooting victim to the nearest hospital, they get stabilized there; and then, if needed, they get transfered to specialist care.

No, the stabilization occurs in the ambulance, which is equipped for that.

 

[Solid Hyrax]

I just told you the POTENTIAL reasoning of that journey. The distance is small cause Gaza is small. You need a proper hospital with a proper surgical theater. I am unwilling to waste 20 mins of my time seeing what specialty those hospitals are, and even then, it could still be true that Hamas took them there cause they had some connection to the hospital with tunnels and it was easiest to take the hostage in the tunnels after surgery.
Things I just can't really know.

Yeah, I'm going to cast doubt on that when the injured is being escorted with someone wielding a cleaver in his hand to the farthest hospital available.

 

[Catch The Rainbow]

I just told you the POTENTIAL reasoning of that journey. The distance is small cause Gaza is small. You need a proper hospital with a proper surgical theater. I am unwilling to waste 20 mins of my time seeing what specialty those hospitals are, and even then, it could still be true that Hamas took them there cause they had some connection to the hospital with tunnels and it was easiest to take the hostage in the tunnels after surgery.
Things I just can't really know.

They skipped 5 other hospitals in that "small distance", all of who have experience stabilizing patients suffering from traumatic wounds due to the previous wars in Gaza. This was also on October 7th, they literally had their choice of hospitals. We have a video of a hostage being forced into the hospital that had to be restrained by three men, you're telling me a guy with that strength is suffering trauma?

 

[Ancient Pioneer]

I think you overestimate the US military desire to carpetbomb everything. I'm no expert, just a bookworm, but from what I've read, its simply not what you say. Indeed, they deem it horribly wasteful. What I'm saying is, If they'd had gps and laser guided smart bombs in WW2, shit would have been much tidier, Curtis LeMay be damned. Its much more efficient to place a precise strike than just dump bombs and hope they land within a mile of the target, which they often didn't. Then they have to do BDA, risking more assets, and revisit a target, sometimes several times. One 500lb GBU-12 dead on target is ultimately better than 8000lbs of dumb bombs that fall where they fall.

World War 2 is a bit different than any conflict because it was one of the last great power nation state wars. Two highly organized industrial great powers haven't faced off against each other since then, its just been middling states like Iraq-Iran or the Korean War or Vietnam which had most of the "industry" being done by third parties. Even today I think most parties in a great power conflict would eventually bog down into carpet bombing residential areas because even laser guided munitions don't have the proper demoralizing effect that running a Dresden style operation does. This turns a productive city into a massive humanitarian disaster the great power would have to tend to, leaving civilians exposed to the elements, particularly during winter would be unacceptable.

Theres tons of hospitals in Gaza, going to shifa from the Israeli Gaza border requires skipping past 5 other hospitals.

And this proves what? That Hamas is full of complete midwits and weren't efficient?

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

Even today I think most parties in a great power conflict would eventually bog down into carpet bombing residential areas because even laser guided munitions don't have the proper demoralizing effect that running a Dresden style operation does.

The actual demoralizing effect of carpet bombing is minimal to nonexistent. Bombing civilians indiscriminately only hardens them towards their enemies and makes them want to fight back harder. Its part of the reason why terror bombing was largely abandoned.

 

[Catch The Rainbow]

And this proves what? That Hamas is full of complete midwits and weren't efficient?

That shifa is the base of hamas

 

[Victory Leo]

And this proves what? That Hamas is full of complete midwits and weren't efficient?

Yeah they just happened to take all of the wounded hostages to this one specific further away hospital that has been speculated to be their HQ for years and has taken the IDF days of combat to still not secure completely.
those clumsy lovable Hamas always making little mistakes like that.

 

[AgendaPoster]

That shifa is the base of hamas

 

[Catch The Rainbow]

View attachment 5509222

Why is this your hill to die on lol, we literally have footage of stolen idf jeeps arriving at shifa, we have historical evidence of Hamas using shifa as a base with videos of tunnels, we have video of the Hamas hostages in the hospital and found hostages in the mass grave outside shifa. At this point you have to be an idiot to deny Hamas doesn't have a connection to shifa

 

[EyeGuy]

The IDF confirms it has released a "not insignificant" number of the reservists initially called up:

Telegram dump - rocket launchers, weapons in mosques, explosions, etc:

Spoiler

 

[AgendaPoster]

Why is this your hill to die on lol, we literally have footage of stolen idf jeeps arriving at shifa, we have historical evidence of Hamas using shifa as a base with videos of tunnels, we have video of the Hamas hostages in the hospital and found hostages in the mass grave outside shifa. At this point you have to be an idiot to deny Hamas doesn't have a connection to shifa

Oh, I'm not dying on any hills.
You are just misreading my ambivalent and cautious posts

That conclusion of yours still doesn't follow.
I might be forced to stop replying regardless of how much I love to argue with you guys cause the debate thread is in a different place, and here you're only supposed to post pics of dead people and bombings, which are somehow "war related" more than discussion about war and the propaganda surrounding it.

 

[diroama]

Do you know what's also basic Geneva Convention shit? Not carrying out collective punishment on a civilian populace.

IDK. They collectively voted a terrorist organisation into power as their government, and they have collectively failed to have some sort of revolution to overthrow them, and they have collectively tolerated them in their schools and hospitals for decades and they collectively celebrated the terrorist attack on 7th October and they collectively support Hamas still so maybe a little collective punishment isn't entirely misplaced.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

Too much for us, we lost to emus in our last war.

Emus run your government. How else did you get gun control when most of the continent is filled with giant, dangerous animals?