The Legend of Heroes Series - Possibly The Most Underrated JRPG Series

I haven't played kuro 2 yet. The English patch for it is completely MTL and the screenshots I've seen of it look pretty rough.
After a series of updates to the Kuro 2 patch, it looks a lot more readable now. So, I'm replaying Kuro 1 so I can go into it with the story fresh in my mind. I'll report back with my thoughts. I'll try and keep it vague on actual details because it'd be rude not to.
 
After a series of updates to the Kuro 2 patch, it looks a lot more readable now. So, I'm replaying Kuro 1 so I can go into it with the story fresh in my mind. I'll report back with my thoughts. I'll try and keep it vague on actual details because it'd be rude not to.
End of Kuro 1 chapter 1. I'm not going to mention anything Too specific. Just my fresh thoughts on the characters. Van is the second best protagonist in the series, behind Estelle. That's not a very high bar to clear, mind you. But just by virtue of acting like a somewhat mature adult, and having some hobbies to define him, it puts him lightyears ahead of Lloyd and Rean.

Second, Agnes. I think the circumstances surrounding her are more interesting than she is. I don't hate her, but I don't really like her either. She's a lot like Ellie in my mind. Maybe that will change as I keep going.

Feri is the last one introduced thus far. Essentially, it's a re-tread of Fie, only without any of her charisma. I feel sorry for her, but she just doesn't have much of a personality.

There's also Van's friends in the Bracer Guild and Police department. I like both of them a lot, and I kind of wish they were my party members instead. They've got personal history, and good banter. Maybe Kuro 2 will deliver more on that.
 
End of Kuro 1 chapter 1. I'm not going to mention anything Too specific. Just my fresh thoughts on the characters. Van is the second best protagonist in the series, behind Estelle. That's not a very high bar to clear, mind you. But just by virtue of acting like a somewhat mature adult, and having some hobbies to define him, it puts him lightyears ahead of Lloyd and Rean.

Second, Agnes. I think the circumstances surrounding her are more interesting than she is. I don't hate her, but I don't really like her either. She's a lot like Ellie in my mind. Maybe that will change as I keep going.

Feri is the last one introduced thus far. Essentially, it's a re-tread of Fie, only without any of her charisma. I feel sorry for her, but she just doesn't have much of a personality.

There's also Van's friends in the Bracer Guild and Police department. I like both of them a lot, and I kind of wish they were my party members instead. They've got personal history, and good banter. Maybe Kuro 2 will deliver more on that.
Kuro 1 is perfectly playable then with the patch that's floating around, as in everything including NPC dialogue is translated? Is the translation solid or does it suffer of being too literal at times? Which version of the game did you install it in? The NIS one or the Clouded Leopard one? I saw that the patch allows infinite bonding points or whatever but only in the Clouded Leopard one. Are the bonding points too limited? I tend to only play these games once but go deep, so I would either savescum the scenes or would rather have the infinite bonds

Also, how is the battle system from somebody coming out of Reverie?
 
Kuro 1 is perfectly playable then with the patch that's floating around, as in everything including NPC dialogue is translated? Is the translation solid or does it suffer of being too literal at times? Which version of the game did you install it in? The NIS one or the Clouded Leopard one? I saw that the patch allows infinite bonding points or whatever but only in the Clouded Leopard one. Are the bonding points too limited? I tend to only play these games once but go deep, so I would either savescum the scenes or would rather have the infinite bonds

Also, how is the battle system from somebody coming out of Reverie?
I'm playing the NIS Version, this is my second playthrough. Because of the DMCA, the patch for Kuro 1 isn't likely to be updated for full npc dialogue. I think the game gives you enough connect points in the first half to see everyone's scenes. But, after that, it starts getting stingy. The script for the game seems fine enough. Nothing that stands out to me as "no real person on the planet would say this".

The big changes for combat are that you can move and act in the same turn, and that crafts get positional effects based on your angle of attack, a lot like Xenoblade. There's also a very basic combo system. Individual attacks have a hit count inherent to them, and every 5 hits adds a flat 10% damage multiplier, the combo resets every time the enemy takes an action.

Orbments have also changed a lot, and it's pretty hard for me to wrap my head around. I think Enel made a video on Kuro's combat, so maybe that explains it better.
 
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I'm playing the NIS Version, this is my second playthrough. Because of the DMCA, the patch for Kuro 1 isn't likely to be updated for full npc dialogue. I think the game gives you enough connect points in the first half to see everyone's scenes. But, after that, it starts getting stingy. The script for the game seems fine enough. Nothing that stands out to me as "no real person on the planet would say this".

The big changes for combat are that you can move and act in the same turn, and that crafts get positional effects based on your angle of attack, a lot like Xenoblade. There's also a very basic combo system. Individual attacks have a hit count inherent to them, and every 5 hits adds a flat 10% damage multiplier, the combo resets every time the enemy takes an action.

Orbments have also changed a lot, and it's pretty hard for me to wrap my head around. I think Enel made a video on Kuro's combat, so maybe that explains it better.
Should probably also mention the real-time portion of the combat. It's not that big a deal, you whail on enemies for a bit until they're stunned before you initiate combat. It's obviously mostly to use the game to prototype some ideas and animations they wanted to use for Ys X.
 
Thanks for the details!

Because of the DMCA, the patch for Kuro 1 isn't likely to be updated for full npc dialogue.
I may have misunderstood but the last time I searched for it I had the impresion it was a full translation, in case you want to check if there is a new version on 4chan.

I'm a bit at a crossroad on if I get it now or wait for the English release. I'll probably work on my backlog but I don't discard going fuck it and getting it on a sale since I'm really keen on playing something fresh in Zumeria.
 
Thanks for the details!


I may have misunderstood but the last time I searched for it I had the impresion it was a full translation, in case you want to check if there is a new version on 4chan.

I'm a bit at a crossroad on if I get it now or wait for the English release. I'll probably work on my backlog but I don't discard going fuck it and getting it on a sale since I'm really keen on playing something fresh in Zumeria.
The story and side quest dialogue are all translated in the kuro 1 patch, it's just that around halfway through the game, the random pedestrians start speaking in spaghetti letters. I'd say go for it.
 
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Started Reverie, fucking liberating Crossbell for tenth time by now, it's really starting to get old. I got to the Reverie corridor which is more fun, but I wish it was more a part of the plot until the eventual "open big door to final boss". The big issue is that I just wait to get accessories for my build, and all the trash accessories are pointless since you just want the CP/evade/critical/speed boosters. Also I really hope Lloyd's party gets more skills because he is worse than Juna with her better utility skills.
 
Finally completed both Cross bell games. Very good duology. 9/10. Big step up from the sky trilogy imo.
I file it as the peak of the series though I also enjoyed Sky very much.
Started Reverie, fucking liberating Crossbell for tenth time by now, it's really starting to get old. I got to the Reverie corridor which is more fun, but I wish it was more a part of the plot until the eventual "open big door to final boss". The big issue is that I just wait to get accessories for my build, and all the trash accessories are pointless since you just want the CP/evade/critical/speed boosters. Also I really hope Lloyd's party gets more skills because he is worse than Juna with her better utility skills
Of the 3 paths, Lloyd honestly feels like a rethread of Azure like you have already noticed, Rean is more Rean being Rean, but the C path is where the true meat is along with the Reverie. Don't expect much in the form of new skills since you just get improved ones of existing ones, though don't underestimate Lloyds ability to shit out a brave point and get two turns in a row for initiative manipulation. You will have ways to get people up to speed in levels if you need to but always have the main characters decked out and a couple of each path since odds are you won't bother having everyone perfectly equipped and that should cover you for any surprises.

Also, abuse the fuck out of the new mechanic of the game, I think it was Valiant orders where everybody spergs out and either attacks, cast spells or heals cleanses the party. The most important part is that it also restores 2 brave points and when used properly you can have infinite turns with Accelerate orders. Also make it a priority to increase your brave points and the assault points in the Reverie.

Unless you bump up the difficulty the game is easy as pie to break, so go ham and enjoy that.
 
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I've kind of been slogging through Reverie a bit. Not that it's a bad game, I'm definitely enjoying it. But my hype for the series died down a bit after waiting to play it after finish CS4. I spent one year exactly, almost down to the hour according to when I got my first achievement with Sky1 and the last achievement with CS4, and I loved almost every moment of it. But, I've always had a problem retaining my hype for something the longer I spend away from it. But I've still been enjoying it so far.

One thing I'd like to mention is how I never get tired of anything involving the city of Crossbell and the surrounding areas. I've grown to enjoy the familiarity of the place, and I like how I can recognize nearly every NPC and know of their stories and quirks when I see them. Was happy to see Amorica Village finally getting it's 3D appearance in Reverie, as well. It's definitely one of my favorite cities in any video game.

I do need to sit myself down and play through Reverie, though. It is great, but haven't been as invested in the series as I was when I was first playing though it, so I tend to get distracted by playing other games.
 
I file it as the peak of the series though I also enjoyed Sky very much.

Of the 3 paths, Lloyd honestly feels like a rethread of Azure like you have already noticed, Rean is more Rean being Rean, but the C path is where the true meat is along with the Reverie. Don't expect much in the form of new skills since you just get improved ones of existing ones, though don't underestimate Lloyds ability to shit out a brave point and get two turns in a row for initiative manipulation. You will have ways to get people up to speed in levels if you need to but always have the main characters decked out and a couple of each path since odds are you won't bother having everyone perfectly equipped and that should cover you for any surprises.

Also, abuse the fuck out of the new mechanic of the game, I think it was Valiant orders where everybody spergs out and either attacks, cast spells or heals cleanses the party. The most important part is that it also restores 2 brave points and when used properly you can have infinite turns with Accelerate orders. Also make it a priority to increase your brave points and the assault points in the Reverie.

Unless you bump up the difficulty the game is easy as pie to break, so go ham and enjoy that.
The game is fun but I feel like the plot is more hazardous to the setting than improves it. Take Trails 3, it had new characters that belonged to the world and introduced a cool part of it, and the old cast was more of guest stars for the ride with some great side story content.

Reverie still tries to focus on Rean and Lloyd despite their plot arcs being finished. While I like C and Lapis, they just continue the ongoing Rean focused plot and the Androids and super AI plot are way too advanced to a setting that already goes from being dawn of industrial age into being sci fi. I just hope those topics never come again in the series since it is just too much.

The game also feels like a failed gacha proposition. Like the devs wanted to make a Genshin Impact esque spinoff and after it was cancelled just repurposed it into a game without microtransactions.

Also holy shit how many more mary sue trope does Rean going to have? He fills multiple bingos.
 
I've kind of been slogging through Reverie a bit. Not that it's a bad game, I'm definitely enjoying it. But my hype for the series died down a bit after waiting to play it after finish CS4. I spent one year exactly, almost down to the hour according to when I got my first achievement with Sky1 and the last achievement with CS4, and I loved almost every moment of it. But, I've always had a problem retaining my hype for something the longer I spend away from it. But I've still been enjoying it so far.

One thing I'd like to mention is how I never get tired of anything involving the city of Crossbell and the surrounding areas. I've grown to enjoy the familiarity of the place, and I like how I can recognize nearly every NPC and know of their stories and quirks when I see them. Was happy to see Amorica Village finally getting it's 3D appearance in Reverie, as well. It's definitely one of my favorite cities in any video game.

I do need to sit myself down and play through Reverie, though. It is great, but haven't been as invested in the series as I was when I was first playing though it, so I tend to get distracted by playing other games.
I did take my time going through all of them in a span of 2-3 years, but yeah, they were my "obsession" as well. I just think that it's more that the Cold Steel setting is just very long in general with a couple of VERY long games in there. I do agree on how you end up knowing everywhere and Crossbell is one of the most fleshed out by far, you know everybody from every place specially now that Mains (it's theme still hits home) and Armorica are finally there, only thing it's missing is the Crossbell high class residential district and it would have everything. I did hear from people that had played with the official release order that played azure and then Reverie and they were at their wits end with Crossbell which I can perfectly get.

Reverie also has a rhythm of it's own where you don't really feel compelled to plow through it, specially when you are in reverie stuff. I did pretty much only play it when I started it but I can perfectly see how it could be a grab and drop for most others.
The game is fun but I feel like the plot is more hazardous to the setting than improves it.
Reverie still tries to focus on Rean and Lloyd despite their plot arcs being finished. While I like C and Lapis, they just continue the ongoing Rean focused plot and the Androids and super AI plot are way too advanced to a setting that already goes from being dawn of industrial age into being sci fi. I just hope those topics never come again in the series since it is just too much.
Definitely, all of the stuff that appears adds so many dimensions of "please, lets really not go there". The game manages to end with a bit of a "well, we don't have to worry about that anymore" but the mere fact that it introduces some shit (spoiler for when C's identity is known) like perfect fucking replicas which is a machine of perpetual copouts if it gets out of control is not something I'm thrilled about, and even if they "aren't supposed to be a thing after this game" well, genie is out of the bottle. Sky the 3rd had a better excuse to get dream matches.
The game also feels like a failed gacha proposition. Like the devs wanted to make a Genshin Impact esque spinoff and after it was cancelled just repurposed it into a game without microtransactions.
The gatcha is honestly harmless unless you have the same mental deficiency as the completionist. It's also incredibly pointless since most of the stuff you get is trash anyway, but I wasn't particularly fussed by it and at a point I was choking on Orbments anyway. Hopefully it never grows past this or only ends up in a shitty mobile game with no narrative relevance.
Also holy shit how many more mary sue trope does Rean going to have? He fills multiple bingos.
I honestly think that around CS3 they noticed they basically made fucking Kirito and decided to just go all in on it. For fucks sake, in the magical alissa sidegame one of the things I learnt is that Rean seals his power in his right arm. He is every mary sue, gary stu, chuuni and harem fantasy rolled up into one while also having the most bland and safe personality possible. Now I just hope they had their fun with it and never ever fucking do it again. Biggest issue with Cold Steel is how everything revolves around Rean from the macro plot to character interactions in general and it really failed to generate the concept that they are a "group of friends", we instead ended with people that are friends with Rean (new class 7 did succeed more with this though).
 
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Welp finished Reverie. It was okay-ish. I think I would have gotten more fun out of it if I had a year break after the end of 4, so I could enjoy the call backs. It's very much a filler title that the consequences of it can be summarised by a single line of text. Combat wise it's fun to have all the toys, but being thrown into using specific characters was more fun since eventually you just use the same characters and strategies. Speaking of, delay spamming is still broken as shit, once an enemy is broken just spam normal attacks (with impede ornaments) till the enemy die. Can't understand why the devs didn't just limit the maximum amount of delay between turns on a unit. Also I hate the anime trope of "there is a world ending threat, but rather than sacrificing one person to stop it permanently, we'll risk everyone's life punching it and hoping it stays down this time".

Anyways I'm bored so here's the list of how Rean is a mary sue:
* The plot revolves around him.
* Every character interaction is centred around him.
* No outside romance is allowed for female characters associated with him.
* If another protagonist is shown, he will talk how great Rean is.
* Vampire/Demon lineage.
* Big bad father.
* Superpowered evil side.
* Biggest failure was inevitable yet still blames himself.
* White hair transformation.
* Heterochromia.
* Long hair dark version.
* Evil self being the final boss of the series.
* Katana in a medieval europe equivalent.
* Taught by Katana master and masters it completely by 21, with the most potent "void" technique.
* Chosen one.
* Reincarnation of an important person.
* Jesus.
* Will sometime reach a correct conclusion before supposedly more intelligent people.
* Rags to riches noble.
* Villain plans rely on him succeeding.

Kirito wishes he had so much mary sue energy.
 
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Welp finished Reverie. It was okay-ish. I think I would have gotten more fun out of it if I had a year break after the end of 4, so I could enjoy the call backs.
Pretty much, I was lucky enough to have like a year in a half to really get a craving for more legend of heroes and it landed well for me but Lloyd's arc is a pure rethread including another guerrilla forming in Mainz, was also bummed that Orlando wasn't allowed to go ballistic, I always felt cockblocked when Randy took out Berzerker for the first time only to have it broken 2 minutes later by Shirley. Rean is Rean, guess he needed to relearn for the 7th time to drop the messiah complex and having Ishmelga be the big bad was fucking ass. The Rufus arc was great though and if the game had been all about him expanding a bit more on his narrative and adding some actual global plot progression it would have been great. Really liked Lapis, Swin and Nadia, they were the real standouts of the game.

And I got to emphasize real plot progression. Outside of reminding us that Crossbell is literally the most cursed of lands, we get an absurdly powerful villain (the Internet!) capable of doing perfect replicas of anybody and promptly nuke it in the same game. Sets a horrible precedent of people just being replicas, specially knowing that Novartis very likely took notes on how that shit works. Ouroboros did nothing this game outside of give us a bit of insight on Novartis and that snippet of the Grandmaster with McBurn. Also, the whole subplot with Ilya was ass, it would have made so much more sense if her recovery was courtesy of Ouroboros or the Internet and was an active collaborator, not some "well she tried really hard, put on the mask and got anxiety!".

And yes, the ending went with the dumb "no one left behind" trope, since it seemed like a fantastic way to cap it off with Rufus just taking in everybody's hate and getting nuked. But I file it as worth it purely on that corny as hell line Lloyd drops about having to arrest you.

Outside of that it's better to see it as a compilation of sidestories with an excuse to get everybody together (and go on another redemption round because nobody is ever truly evil!, though to be fair, Garcia was half way there and Dieter I can see very much having an epiphany in prison) and some teasers for Kuro (good to know Rene will be faffing around in that one as well in some capacity)

Combat like you say is pretty easy to cheese, I mostly focused on accelerate orders and making Emma have a setup that let her hit 5-6 digits per cast. Only moment that kicked my ass was the surprise McBurn in Lloyd's arc which forced me to properly stock up for once. The game is also chock full of side content with all the minigames in case any of them happen to tickle your tism, though in my case I don't like the puzzle game enough to engage with it outside of a few rounds and actively dislike the card game.


Anyways I'm bored so here's the list of how Rean is a mary sue:
* The plot revolves around him.
* Every character interaction is centred around him.
* No outside romance is allowed for female characters associated with him.
* If another protagonist is shown, he will talk how great Rean is.
* Vampire/Demon lineage.
* Big bad father.
* Superpowered evil side.
* Biggest failure was inevitable yet still blames himself.
* White hair transformation.
* Heterochromia.
* Long hair dark version.
* Evil self being the final boss of the series.
* Katana in a medieval europe equivalent.
* Taught by Katana master and masters it completely by 21, with the most potent "void" technique.
* Chosen one.
* Reincarnation of an important person.
* Jesus.
* Will sometime reach a correct conclusion before supposedly more intelligent people.
* Rags to riches noble.
* Villain plans rely on him succeeding.
Good list, a part of me wants to be extra pedantic and categorize them on what's mary sue, what's gary stu,. what's chuuni and what's harem fantasy. Because my god, Rean wanted ALL the hats if wishful self fulfillment. I still think they just said fuck it and went all in, that or a lead writer should get kicked out ASAP. Just really surprised there was a Legend of Heroes protag that was such a vortex when Estelle, Kevin nor Lloyd don't have a fraction of this shit (Lloyd managed to escape the harem with the only consequence being Rixia being a bit stunted in that front and well, Noel was always just there anyway). Hoping Kuro's main character is a lot closer to the first 3 in potential and aspirations.

Aside from that, still very eager at starting Kuro, still unsure if I'll just play the patched version or wait for the official release, but won't be playing before 2024, that's for sure.
 
And yes, the ending went with the dumb "no one left behind" trope, since it seemed like a fantastic way to cap it off with Rufus just taking in everybody's hate and getting nuked. But I file it as worth it purely on that corny as hell line Lloyd drops about having to arrest you.
My mouth was agape when I realized the ending completely ripped off the Code Geass ending, though at least it done it right this time. If it was just the Rufus show I think the game would have been far better.
Good list, a part of me wants to be extra pedantic and categorize them on what's mary sue, what's gary stu,. what's chuuni and what's harem fantasy. Because my god, Rean wanted ALL the hats if wishful self fulfillment. I still think they just said fuck it and went all in, that or a lead writer should get kicked out ASAP. Just really surprised there was a Legend of Heroes protag that was such a vortex when Estelle, Kevin nor Lloyd don't have a fraction of this shit (Lloyd managed to escape the harem with the only consequence being Rixia being a bit stunted in that front and well, Noel was always just there anyway). Hoping Kuro's main character is a lot closer to the first 3 in potential and aspirations.
I liked Lloyd just being a normal dude in a world of crazy ass ninjas and knights yest still kicking ass, McBurn actually mentions it. Even if he gets his harem, at least it doesn't conflict with Randy, who doesn't have much romantic chemistry with the other plot members. Also Rean's harem has just about every romantic trope and archetype besides (maybe) yandere.
 
My mouth was agape when I realized the ending completely ripped off the Code Geass ending, though at least it done it right this time. If it was just the Rufus show I think the game would have been far better.
It actually had an obvious setup this time, I immediately saw where this was going once the lasers were made to be directed by public opinion and Rufus stayed behind. On Code Geass it was just a "I have this cool idea and I will jam the square inside the round hole no matter the force", but Code Geass had a very strong start that lost a lot of steam after Lelouch got defeated and after the reset it spiraled hard into hell, like most Japanese media honestly, great setups with horrible conclusions.
I liked Lloyd just being a normal dude in a world of crazy ass ninjas and knights yest still kicking ass, McBurn actually mentions it. Even if he gets his harem, at least it doesn't conflict with Randy, who doesn't have much romantic chemistry with the other plot members. Also Rean's harem has just about every romantic trope and archetype besides (maybe) yandere.
Hell, I'd say Reverie closed it off in that Lloyd is all about Ellie's milkers and birthing hips so he managed to escape the spiral of never having a conclusion to his romantic arc. Rean is fucked though, outside of scenarios that could NEVER work like being hooked up with Alfin, almost everything else could be "canon" and it's obvious they won't commit to any, waaaaaay too many waifus, if they had just stuck with the core 3 of Emma, Alisa and Laura it could still be a "yeah, it was Alisa all along and you knew it" but after killing any development from anything with a vagina for 2-3 games in a row? Hard sell and if there is ever a 5 year timeskip or whatever, he will be eternally single and lusted over I'd imagine. I always found it funny how all the dudes from original class 7 got themselves girlfriends from outside of class (except Jusis and Millium), same deal with new class 7, but all the ladies are shackled to the Rean cock.

And yeah... now that you mention it, no Yandere, though lets count our blessings that Shirley didn't want to go to the rodeo as well, seems she's all about Cedric, who I honestly don't know what they plan to do with him outside of an obvious redemption arc, in his snippet story it's been shown he's mediocre for an Enforcer.
 
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