Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[SaidNoOneEver]

Jewish hands read this and rub each other vigorously.

Who decided the army needed to completely retool their fucking small arms logistics with a completely new caliber of ammo, a new rifle, and one with as many problems as those new caliber and rifle have?

The generals or colonels or whoever signed off on this idea are gonna get some FAT private sector contracts when they retire for "consulting".

I haven't seen a single person review it and say, "Yep, this is the one! We have a winner!" The new round tries to replace several different rounds by doing several things but the problem is it doesn't do any single one of those things as well or better than what it's trying to replace. And that gun is just too heavy. The silencer has been universally praised though. 3d-printing allows baffle shapes and designs with materials that were never possible before with standard machining. Cheap too. 3d-printing is already revolutionizing suppressors.

The next-gen optic they chose for that thing is pretty funny if you can find an article showing it. Buck Rogers shit.

 

[verissimus]

European standards after all
View attachment 5520712View attachment 5520711

Ukraine is going to be the Palestine of Russia.

 

[No Scope]

Sig Sauer already won it with a whole new next-gen platform to replace M4/M16 and saws. These are supposed to be the new standard service infantry rifle - the suppressors are 3d-printed and standard issue:

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your...er-to-build-its-next-generation-squad-weapon/
There's still some doubt if they'll really go to a whole new caliber (6.8mm vs 5.56NATO) but that would mean billions more for the MIC as every country has to basically replace all their small arms.

I remember watching a video by Tim, Jason, and Pad on the Military Arms Channel about a year ago where they had a discussion about it. There's also a LMG version that will be adopted too. I guess I didn't really pay close attention where they talked about the suppressor being 3D printed as I thought it will never happen.

Goody bye M16! Military Adopts the M5 rifle and 6.8x51. Are they crazy?​

 

[namelesstacotruck]

Jewish hands read this and rub each other vigorously.

Who decided the army needed to completely retool their fucking small arms logistics with a completely new caliber of ammo, a new rifle, and one with as many problems as those new caliber and rifle have?

The generals or colonels or whoever signed off on this idea are gonna get some FAT private sector contracts when they retire for "consulting".

There is a popular theory that its so when the American military gets turned on American citizens, Americans wont be able to reload off military issued munitions as the new caliber is harder to get and ar-15 and similar platforms that use 5.56 are popular with the American citzenry. It also lets them choke out the supply of 5.56 once the military stops asking for it and lets them attempt backdoor fire arms ban by outlawing the caliber that Ar 15s use instead of the gun itself.

Thats probably just a bonus to these people and its all about money making them stockpile a new caliber.

 

[Ancient Pioneer]

Who decided the army needed to completely retool their fucking small arms logistics with a completely new caliber of ammo, a new rifle, and one with as many problems as those new caliber and rifle have?

Practical experience did. Afghanistan showed that the M4 in particular was too weak to handle some of the combat zones the US was getting involved in. The Taliban would find the maximum range of the M4 and just hurl rounds down on remote forward operating posts like you see in the documentary Restrepo. The Taliban using 7.62 were able to fire at ranges that the US military couldn't begin to touch, most OP had to resort to firing back with the .30 cal machine guns exclusively. The M4 was an unexpected pivot from the M-16 was was deemed too long for comfortable or effective usage by troops mounting and dismounting from Humvees.

 

[Echo_Ender]

Yep, seems the Winter Games have begun:

View attachment 5520212
Lots of buildings without power and downed power lines.
Source

This is the kind of thing they need to keep up if they want to actually make some progress.

Sucks that civvies are going to lose power in the cold of winter, but Russia needs to start disrupting the logistics.

Based off the 11/26/2023 video from the Military Summary channel. The US Abrams is now in the Ukraine in Kupiansk at 7:21 mark.

Ukrainians Flee From Positions In Avdos, Kupiansk, Klishchiivka, Krynky. Military Summary 2023.11.26​

Spoiler

View attachment 5523121

It'll be interesting to see if/when they actually use the Abrams. IIRC, their western overlords told them to keep the Abrams out of their usual meat grinder and that if they lose them, they're not getting any more.

Also, I'm not an expert on Tanks, but doesn't that Abrams seem incredibly stripped down?

It's at the very least missing its top-mounted MG, smoke/flare launchers, and some plates of its reactive armor.

 

[Hello Again!]

There is a popular theory that its so when the American military gets turned on American citizens, Americans wont be able to reload off military issued munitions as the new caliber is harder to get and ar-15 and similar platforms that use 5.56 are popular with the American citzenry. It also lets them choke out the supply of 5.56 once the military stops asking for it and lets them attempt backdoor fire arms ban by outlawing the caliber that Ar 15s use instead of the gun itself.

Thats probably just a bonus to these people and its all about money making them stockpile a new caliber.

I haven't heard that one personally but it's worth thinking about. Guess I should pick up some more 5.56 now. My own thoughts behind it was that the idea of needing an AP round for dealing with body armor from Russia/China was BS because the US civilian body armor market is larger than what either country provides its military, so the 6.8mm is more specifically meant to be used against US citizens possessing body armor.

 

[VargReallyDidNothingWrong]

Practical experience did. Afghanistan showed that the M4 in particular was too weak to handle some of the combat zones the US was getting involved in. The Taliban would find the maximum range of the M4 and just hurl rounds down on remote forward operating posts like you see in the documentary Restrepo. The Taliban using 7.62 were able to fire at ranges that the US military couldn't begin to touch, most OP had to resort to firing back with the .30 cal machine guns exclusively. The M4 was an unexpected pivot from the M-16 was was deemed too long for comfortable or effective usage by troops mounting and dismounting from Humvees.

Instead of arming 2-3 guys out of each squad with 7.62 NATO weapons (like the M14's already in armories, the SCAR-H, whatever else), they chose to instead invent a completely new cartridge and ostensibly throw out all the M4's instead.

Then after the next war when they figure out 6.8 SIG is too hard recoiling and the gun is too heavy they'll sit down and invent yet another new standard for the army, I guess that's the play nowadays.

Then again the US military isn't really in the business of fighting and winning wars, it's in the business of making money for the MIC.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

Who's "they"?

I'm talking bout average Ukranians. They voted for peace and an end to fighting in the east in 2019. That's what Zelensky was running on, he turned into Cocaine GI Joe after Russia invaded in 2022. Ukranians are no more in control of what their government does than we are.

Like us, they get to cast a vote every few years for crooks and liars who work for the oligarchs. The ordinary Ukranian people are the biggest losers in this war, and they never wanted it to begin with.

I'm a little tired of the "The Ukrainian people didn't want this war" line to be perfectly honest. The majority of the Russian ethnics, particularly in Lugansk and Donetsk didn't; most Russian ethnics in Kherson, Kharkov, Odessa and everywhere else didn't. The majority of the retirees born and raised in the Ukraine Soviet Republic didn't want war; and the majority of Ukrainians with family roots in both Russia and Ukraine didn't seem to want this war. The rest, especially in Galicia and Volynia, who cheered on the Maidan did; the ones who swooned at the sight of SS Galizien badges on the nationalist battalions did; the Nazi larpers who worship Stephan Bandera and Roman Shukhevych did; the cargo cultists who think EU membership means endless gibs, and fight for damaged Amazon returns of designer trash at discount outlets did; every corrupt politician and oligarch did and the lunatics who wanted to rape, murder and loot all the way to Red Square while screaming if you disagreed made you a Russian orc and put you on the Myrotvorets did, because only a lunatic believes that they will ever set foot in Moscow as conquerors while having you drawn and quartered for calling it "the Ukraine".

Oh and Obama and the handmaiden of this clusterfuck Victoria Nuland handing out cookies at Maidan, promising everyone they would have wealth beyond their imagination if they did as they were told, did and every Taras and Oksana who believed them, did.

Based off the 11/26/2023 video from the Military Summary channel. The US Abrams is now in the Ukraine in Kupiansk at 7:21 mark.

Those are the Leopard 2A6. Not Abrams.

 

[Sexual Chocolate]

I'm a little tired of the "The Ukrainian people didn't want this war"

Ngl, I'm just tired of seeing Christians kill each other my brother in Christ.

 

[No Scope]

It'll be interesting to see if/when they actually use the Abrams. IIRC, their western overlords told them to keep the Abrams out of their usual meat grinder and that if they lose them, they're not getting any more.

Also, I'm not an expert on Tanks, but doesn't that Abrams seem incredibly stripped down?

It's at the very least missing its top-mounted MG, smoke/flare launchers, and some plates of its reactive armor.

Oh, I thought that was for the F16's only. However, you may be right about the Abrams too. The US did take longer to get the tanks to the Ukraine as they told them they were being refurbished, being stripped down.

RedEffect had just released a video today where he it is sure that it is the M1A1 version but is of 1 out of the 2 variants. He goes in detail to compare the two against Russia's tanks. I'm not a tank expert myself.

Abrams for Ukraine. How does it Compare to Russian Tanks?​

Instead of arming 2-3 guys out of each squad with 7.62 NATO weapons (like the M14's already in armories, the SCAR-H, whatever else), they chose to instead invent a completely new cartridge and ostensibly throw out all the M4's instead.

Then after the next war when they figure out 6.8 SIG is too hard recoiling and the gun is too heavy they'll sit down and invent yet another new standard for the army, I guess that's the play nowadays.

I'm not big on conspiracy theories. However, it makes you wonder why so much military equipment was left behind in Afghanistan and that the US pulled out ahead of the deadline scheduled at the end of Aug. 2021.

Those are the Leopard 2A6. Not Abrams.

Apologies for the bad info. I was just going off the reporting in the video that the Abrams had arrived in the Ukraine.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

Ngl, I'm just tired of seeing Christians kill each other my brother in Christ.
View attachment 5523637

The President of Ukraine is not a Christian; in fact, he passed a law taking over the Ukrainian Orthodox Church and replaced it with his creation which has parties and raves inside the sanctuary. His handlers in the US are not Christians either so if you want to view through a religious lens it's a Jew vs Christian war.

 

[prolapsed_cranium]

The next-gen optic they chose for that thing is pretty funny if you can find an article showing it. Buck Rogers shit.

Garand Thumb demo'd part of it

https://youtu.be/f5YWXrZdNpA?si=pTPr6fn4jdPm8i0

 

[The Ugly One]

I can't even imagine how all of this is gonna be resolved at the end. The trust level is at the bottom, everyone's just seizing each other assets. It's gonna take huge effort to restore the relationships.

Yep. From the rest of the world's perspective, any deal with the USA must be assumed to expire at the next election.

I haven't seen a single person review it and say, "Yep, this is the one! We have a winner!" The new round tries to replace several different rounds by doing several things but the problem is it doesn't do any single one of those things as well or better than what it's trying to replace.

The believe that one rifle/plane/armored vehicle/etc for all roles would be more efficient than specialized equipment has been the most wasteful bias of militaries for the entire era of mechanized warfare.

 

[VargReallyDidNothingWrong]

(I still don't understand how to embed YT links.)

You press the button that looks like a picture and film frame and paste the link in the field. Number 4 from the left in the pic below.

 

[Cuckoman]

Article / Archive
View attachment 5517225
Even the Abrams wunderwaffle is now obsolete.

It is not that they re bad per-se but that without solid air support a lot of these tanks just become very expensive target practice for artillery.
I would look really really bad to have all these wonder tanks being blown up by the artillery on the other side of that mountain because of the lack of support.
And if you are never gonna deploy them in action, I mean then why not sell a couple of them to the Chineese and a few to the Russians to pick apart and analyze.

About the pictures where the tanks were stripped down. That was probably done so that they could sell the mounted weapons for cash to some warlord in africa to be mounted on his Toyota Hilux.

 

[Ancient Pioneer]

However, it makes you wonder why so much military equipment was left behind in Afghanistan and that the US pulled out ahead of the deadline scheduled at the end of Aug. 2021.

The original deadline that the US had in writing with the Taliban was May 1st. The State department negotiated a cease fire with the Taliban to that date and then Trump lost the elections, Biden's cronies refused to keep the deadline and extended it to Sept 11th unilaterally, Taliban disagreed and took the entire country over in a rather humiliating event for NATO which couldn't even flee fast enough from the country before it fell.

 

[Betonhaus]

The original deadline that the US had in writing with the Taliban was May 1st. The State department negotiated a cease fire with the Taliban to that date and then Trump lost the elections, Biden's cronies refused to keep the deadline and extended it to Sept 11th unilaterally, Taliban disagreed and took the entire country over in a rather humiliating event for NATO which couldn't even flee fast enough from the country before it fell.

Just to rephrase to ensure I'm reading that right, Trump made an agreement that both sides would stop shooting each other after May 1rst, but when Biden became president the US continued shooting until September 11th, after which all bets were off with the Taliban - as continuing to shoot at them, long after a time they were promised the shooting would end, did terrible things for the Taliban's ability to trust US promises.

 

[Ancient Pioneer]

Just to rephrase to ensure I'm reading that right, Trump made an agreement that both sides would stop shooting each other after May 1rst, but when Biden became president the US continued shooting until September 11th, after which all bets were off with the Taliban - as continuing to shoot at them, long after a time they were promised the shooting would end, did terrible things for the Taliban's ability to trust US promises.

The US agreed to be out of the country by May 1st by agreement signed in Doha and that there was a ceasefire in effect between all parties until May 1st. Trump was no longer President so Biden just ignored the deadline and unilaterally declared the new one to be Sept 11th. Taliban adhered to the May 1st deadline, which is the start of campaign season anyway, and declared the US to be backstabbing pricks and took the whole country over in a rather amazing campaign.

 

[The Ugly One]

It is not that they re bad per-se but that without solid air support a lot of these tanks just become very expensive target practice for artillery.

Literally all tanks are sitting ducks without air support. It's funny that after video after video of man-portable ATGMs blowing up tanks, people are still in the least bit surprised that rounds fired out of helicopters and artillery, which are far more powerful, crush tanks like soda cans.