Shitty Alternate History Thread - If only the Romans had AK-47's they would've survived...

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Ian basically monopolized the online genre. And it will probably stay that way until he dies unfortunately.

I suppose if someone had cash to burn they could try to buy him out. But I doubt it. He's gone to a lot of trouble over 20 years to make AH.com what it is. And he clearly likes that.
 
Is it just me and my now extant bias against ah.com, or have more retards shown up recently? I've been perusing the other WW2 Germany timelines and stumbled on this one. It literally opens up with the author spazzing out over the idea of writing a German victory, and then the first chapter literally opens on "Christians are to blame for Nazism."
 
Ideological capture at work. Ian and CalBear have been carefully weeding out anyone who would complain about such a description for almost a decade and since they agree they consider it "non-political" and as such it is allowed. Kinda like what happened to reddit that turned them cringy libertarians who were mostly apolitical to whatever the fuck they are now.
 
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Is it just me and my now extant bias against ah.com, or have more retards shown up recently? I've been perusing the other WW2 Germany timelines and stumbled on this one. It literally opens up with the author spazzing out over the idea of writing a German victory, and then the first chapter literally opens on "Christians are to blame for Nazism."
The author claims their great-grandfather got reparations checks, which sounds like he was a Jew who went off to Auschwitz or wherever. So assume this is a bunch of Jewish kvetching.

This does make me notice that in recent years there's been a real shift to "Nazis have no chance of winning whatsoever" as an article of faith on the site. It gets asserted with the same vehemence you used to see reserved for silly shit like Operation Sea Lion succeeding. It's almost like a religious thing. Since Hitler is secular Satan, he can't be allowed to ever win. This is where you get the weird idea you occasionally see that the Nazis would have "inevitably" imploded by 1950 if no one had done anything. Which is really ironic to see taken as an article of truth when it basically just says Chamberlain and all the US isolationists who always pop up as alt-history dictators were right.
 
I forget if I mentioned this earlier in the thread or elsewhere AH is discussed on the Farms, but one thing I miss is the creativity and insanity of early timelines' premises in the genre's history during our lifetimes. Think of those weird or wanked-as-hell ones on Wikia or on AH.com (Decades of Darkness - the New Englandless America become North American Draka! Look to the West - America stays in the British Empire only for Argentina to win independence and gradually become a constantly-expanding cultureless slurry totalitarianism! The Chaos Timeline - the Mongol Empire never forms and the world gets weird without the knockon effects!), or the premises of early-enough published work (Stirling - the Draka, natch. Turtledove - aliens invading during WW2! The Confederacy becomes Nazis only to fall to the Union that controls the entire continent north of the Rio Grande and Sinaola!).

I will readily grant today's timelines are far extensively researched and deserve credit for that. I will even say I myself am butterfly-resistant to a lot of scenarios if only to keep things simple as possible. But man, AH in my teenage and college years (I'm late 30s) was a lot more fun back then.
 
This does make me notice that in recent years there's been a real shift to "Nazis have no chance of winning whatsoever" as an article of faith on the site.
germany couldve only won if its economic policies were less fucked, and its flavor of socialism was integral to what it was
 
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germany couldve only won if its economic policies were less fucked, and its flavor of socialism was integral to what it was
Preparing more for the Soviet campaign or easiest of all, listening to Rosenberg and getting more Ukronazis and other anti-communist Slavs would win. It's like everyone's gone full reverse-Wehraboo.
 
Germany could have won, the question is more about what you define as "victory".

Most people think on way too literal terms when asked about this in relation to WW2. They make answers and rationalizations based on a perfect flip of the circumstances, as in "Germany gets to set the peace terms perfectly and removes their enemies from existence completely" which yea is pretty much impossible. The Man In The High Castle scenario is just not a thing Germany could ever hope to accomplish.

But a negotiated peace, where say they agree to a settlement with Britain early on or even leaving France by just doing a Versailes on them to focus fully on the USSR is possible.

Like it has been said, people have gone way too hard on compensating for Wehraboos and now downright ignore common sense to hate on Germany the same way said Wehraboos ignored common sense to make Sea Lion work.
 
"Germany winning" would have to question the makeup of WW2 as a whole. The US was a powerhouse on a completely different level. The soviets would have collapsed in 1942 or 1943 if the US wouldn't have stuffed their ass full with food, logistical and military supplies. As well as the invaluable contribution of doing bomber campaigns where the USSR needed them. The US sent more supplies to the USSR than to it's own troops on the western front. And if the US would have gotten bogged down for whatever reason, the nukes would jave cemented them as the ultimate victor anyway.

So an alternate history scenario would have to incorporate Germany distancing itself from Japan in the american public eye, and a 180 degree of the american political class. And idk.what would have to happen in Asia for it all to make any lick of sense.
 
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Fatherland probably has the most realistic Germany wins the war scenario. Germany beats the USSR so the Allies invading Europe isn't feasible. Germany fights a forever war against a Soviet rump state and partisans (supplied by the US). Japan still crushed by the US. A US-German cold war. I don't see Germany taking over the British Isles though. Even if Germany beat the Russians, it couldn't have possibly successfully invaded or forced them to surrender via blockade and bombing. The British and American fleets and air forces just too strong. Britain still declines postwar and becomes junior partner to the US like in the real world
 
"Germany winning" would have to question the makeup of WW2 as a whole. The US was a powerhouse on a completely different level. The soviets would have collapsed in 1942 or 1943 if the US wouldn't have stuffed their ass full with food, logistical and military supplies. As well as the invaluable contribution of doing bomber campaigns where the USSR needed them. The US sent more supplies to the USSR than to it's own troops on the western front. And if the US would have gotten bogged down for whatever reason, the nukes would jave cemented them as the ultimate victor anyway.

So an alternate history scenario would have to incorporate Germany distancing itself from Japan in the american public eye, and a 180 degree of the american political class. And idk.what would have to happen in Asia for it all to make any lick of sense.

Man, I don't want to get into the extremely controversial weeds of "German WW2 Victory TLs," but...

I do not believe that the Soviets would have necessarily collapsed in 1942 or '43 without Lend/Lease. U.S. aid was extraordinarily helpful to the USSR, sure - tankies love to point out that it accounted for a very small percentage of total Soviet production during the war, but it consisted chiefly of the materiel that was the most difficult to produce (like aircraft), or that most helped other things get to the front lines (like trucks and fuel), and therefore freed up a disproportionate amount of Soviet resources. Without it, there would have been a dangerous gap in production (especially of planes) in 1942 before the new factories in the east could come entirely online, and it would have been touch and go for the USSR for a lot longer than in OTL. And then, even if they did pull through this dangerous period, the increased demands on Soviet labor (and on the always godawful Soviet agriculture) would have resulted in a lot fewer young men able to be rotated away from the factories and onto the front lines. Even in OTL, by the end of the war the Red Army was having some severe manpower shortages, and this would have been much worse without American aid. Still, the USSR was massive in population and resources, and Stalin's bureaucracy was surprisingly good at mobilizing every last iota of both those in times of crisis. Would it have been enough, though?

But the Wehrmacht, too, was in a desperate bind when it failed to conclusively knock out the Red Army by the onset of winter 1941. The German economy was simply not set up to meet the demands of a long, drawn out war half a continent away, and they were already facing some really severe equipment shortages that impacted their ability to conduct offensives in 1942. I've seen takes by people sympathetic to both sides that the war was essentially lost for Germany after the Battle of Moscow. And that dangerous gap for the USSR in 1942, where the new factories weren't yet online and they were (ITTL) lacking Western aid would have corresponded pretty exactly to the period when the Wehrmacht was least able to deliver a decisive blow. Still, without the Allied terror-bombing, the African front, or the need to maintain the U-Boat campaign, they would have been able to rearrange their and their allies' economies towards beating the Soviets much more quickly. Would it have been enough, though?

It would have been a much closer-run thing, that's for sure. I tend towards the opinion that Soviet advantages in resources and manpower would eventually have proved overwhelming, and the Germans would still have been driven back, step by step, from the gates of Moscow. But I think there's a very real chance that, sometime in 1946 or '47, with both sides starving and barely able to field an army even as large as one of Napoleon's, a truce of exhaustion might have been called with the front-lines somewhere near Warsaw, in the middle of a Poland even more devastated than in OTL. And then what? Another revolution? In Germany? In Russia? In both? Very possible. A restarting of hostilities in '51 or '53, this time with a few Fat Man or Little Boy sized nukes getting thrown around? Also possible. Whatever happened, Eastern and Central Europe would have been a horrifically grim place to be. 'Apocalyptic' is not too strong a word.

But it's all pretty pointless speculation. The British government, once engaged in the war, had no intention of coming to terms with the Third Reich unless absolutely forced to by circumstances. Circumstances that were just not going to happen. And Roosevelt was even more ideologically committed to destroying Nazi Germany than Stalin was - the Soviets always felt they could bide their time and wait for the inevitable opportune moment to 'destroy capitalism.'

If you want a TL with a really strong chance of a German victory, your two best PoDs are either something happening in the '30s that puts the U.K. firmly on Germany's side (unlikely), or the Nomonhan Incident going the other way so Japan decides to push against the USSR instead of a (grossly suicidal) attack on the USA (also unlikely).
 
The author claims their great-grandfather got reparations checks, which sounds like he was a Jew who went off to Auschwitz or wherever. So assume this is a bunch of Jewish kvetching.

This does make me notice that in recent years there's been a real shift to "Nazis have no chance of winning whatsoever" as an article of faith on the site. It gets asserted with the same vehemence you used to see reserved for silly shit like Operation Sea Lion succeeding. It's almost like a religious thing. Since Hitler is secular Satan, he can't be allowed to ever win. This is where you get the weird idea you occasionally see that the Nazis would have "inevitably" imploded by 1950 if no one had done anything. Which is really ironic to see taken as an article of truth when it basically just says Chamberlain and all the US isolationists who always pop up as alt-history dictators were right.
Basically.

Modern Leftists have this juvenile way of thinking where their enemies have to be doomed to fail and completely inept (despite also being the big scary that will destroy the world, paradoxically). Maybe some of it comes from Marxism's smug belief in itself, maybe it's just the juvenility again. I find it disrespectful to the victors as it cheapens what they went through, what they overcame. This comes up with the Confederacy too, there's a similar dogmatic push to assuming they'd collapse (which can be an interesting premise, I've talked about a version of that on here, but I don't think it actually would have devoured itself, much less that it was the only possible outcome) if they won which clearly they couldn't have because they were eeeeeeeeeeeeeevil.

I think the Nazis were clearly quite successful that they got so far into the Soviet Union. They fumbled before America got directly involved but I don't see why with better decision-making they couldn't have won.

Basically, Leftists are retarded and deserve the rope.
 
Eh...still why not create an account?

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Wut if There was a war between American states in the 1780s-Pennsylvania and Maryland fighting each other as New York and Rhode Island raised militia against Virginia.
I have buried way further back in this thread some comments about a world I was building based on this premise. That the Articles of Confederation descend into (fairly minor scale) conflict that prevents the Constitution, so the colonies stay disunited and develop distinct national identities and great power diplomacy in the North American continent.

I was thinking of it as a Victoria mod with branching paths instead of an actual narrative, but the starting "situation" involved:

A united New England that was intensely revolutionary, militant, and prone to wild swinging between different extremes of bad ideas.

A constitutional monarchy of New York/New Jersey, very expansionist into the Great Lakes.

Independent Rhode Island acting as a sort of maritime Switzerland and becoming a disproportionately powerful colonial power (like Belgium).

Insurrectionist Vermont. I had the Mormonism developing there (instead of Palmyra, since Joseph Smith was born in Vermont) and turning into a New England Appalachian Taliban.

Pennsylvania-Delaware being the good guy of the setting fraught with tensions between its Anabaptist founding stock and Scotch sectarians.

Virginia-Maryland as another good guy of the setting, also controlling eastern North Carolina, in a sort of classical planters' republic.

Constitutional monarchy Carolina (South Carolina) becoming a slaveocratic hell.

Transsavanna (Georgia) being a slaveocratic republic (like classic Confederate ideology), somewhat hemmed in though.

Appalachian North Carolina and other Applachian backcountry becoming a breakaway nation Washington (analogous to Bolivia).

Melungeons being much more numerous and having an absolute monarchy isolated on the Cumberland Plateau (analogous in some regards to the Guarani in Paraguay).

The British successfully fostering a Muskogean protectorate in the Deep South that rules a mixture of Irish convict labor and Black slaves who creolize into a Celtic Black culture.

Appalachians and Shawnees creolizing into a sort of English Metis called Ohio.

Blacks managing to create their own Abrahamic splinter religion and a maroon state in the Ozarks.


Other details depended on it also mixing with a Napoleonic victory scenario (like a New Spanish monarchy in exile that is the North American hegemon), though greater Comanche success (like actually becoming Mongol analogues) would be interesting too. Historically they beat the tar out of Mexico, were actually a large chunk of why the US faced so little resistance sweeping into the Far North. I liked the idea of Germans creating states in the Plains or even of the Cossacks having a mass migration to the Plains.
 
A really retarded scenario I kick around in my head from time to time is "what if southern/western Europe was infested with alligators?"

Alligators are capable of living in much colder climates than crocodiles are, and it's known that they can easily survive winters that drop well below freezing in places like Oklahoma.
https___cdn.cnn.com_cnnnext_dam_assets_180109152340-alligators-in-ice-1.jpg
Now alligators only live in America and China, but what if there were some that lived in Africa along the Nile Delta? Crocodiles were often shipped up to Rome to fight in the Colosseum and in this case, these hypothetical Nile Alligators would also. Maybe some would escape into the waterways and start breeding. Eventually they'd spread around and get up into Spain and France, and east into Greece. Alligators in Roman sewers would be an actual problem.
Then when the Middle Ages come around, you'd have nobles with badass heraldic alligators on their coats of arms, and maybe people would wear alligator hide armor, and castle moats would be full of alligators. They'd probably compete with the native brown bears for food too. There would be a bunch of fairy tales involving them too, though they might not be conflated with dragons as much as they were in real life if they're common enough in Europe. They'd be easy to hunt in the winter while brumating for an extra source of meat, so by the Industrial Revolution they may be hunted to extinction, but maybe not, since they're pretty hardy animals and they breed reasonably fast. Imagine fighting along the Isonzo River in WWI or in the Pontine Marshes at Anzio in WWII and having to contend with hungry alligators.
Then in the modern day you'd have climatefags doomposting about the range of the European Alligator moving further and further north due to climate change.

It's not plausible whatsoever and doesn't really lend itself to any actual timeline changes but it has some fun imagery to imagine.
ucwerd9aui931.jpg
 
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doesn't really lend itself to any actual timeline changes
I don't know about that. If the rivers of central and southern europe were infested with gators, people would be much more wary of going near them, which would reduce their utility as transportation routes. France, without reliable access to the Loire and Rhone rivers in its formative years, is a very different place.
 
I don't know about that. If the rivers of central and southern europe were infested with gators, people would be much more wary of going near them, which would reduce their utility as transportation routes. France, without reliable access to the Loire and Rhone rivers in its formative years, is a very different place.
The Nile was infested with crocodiles but Egyptians didn't care, they still used it as an ancient superhighway.
 
They had less of a choice, given the Nile flood plain was the only place they could grow food.
Yeah, but you gotta ship food around too (since that's how you make money and collect tribute), and if it means you have to put a crossbow dart up a gator's ass before you get in your boat, such is life.
 
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