Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Strix454]

Marinka itself is of little to no value. The only significance of the taking of Marinka is that after fighting over it for so long, the Ukrainians were willing to give it up rather than put more force into it.It goes along with a perception that the Ukrainian reserves are running out. Time will tell if this becomes a pattern of any significance.

In other news, the ex-spokestranny removed his troon profile picture from twitter and replace it with a photo of him in his man-clothes. I guess his bosses finally noticed it.

He also removed the "Sarah" name from the profile and is now "S. Ashton-Cirillo".

 

[Givi]

old men are almost as useless

I'd argue 50-65 are generally just as useful as any 20 year old if they want to be there. A surprising amount of the separatist fighters in 2014-15 were about that age and they did pretty well all things considered. Even better if they have any prior military experience.

If I remember correctly, the better performers in the Volkssturm were also generally older people, sometimes with WW1 experience.

 

[There Is Light At The End]

He also removed the "Sarah" name from the profile and is now "S. Ashton-Cirillo".

If that troon gone for Ukrainian sounding name, he surely chose an interesting one. Cirillo sounds very similar to Kirillo. Only more "special"

 

[Gondolindrim]

My Twitter feed has been full of NAFO and other Pro-Ukraine accounts lately. Looks like the propaganda funding just got a bump because what the fuck happened to cause this spike in rhetoric?

 

[MrJokerRager]

 

[Male Idiot]

I'd argue 50-65 are generally just as useful as any 20 year old if they want to be there. A surprising amount of the separatist fighters in 2014-15 were about that age and they did pretty well all things considered. Even better if they have any prior military experience.

If I remember correctly, the better performers in the Volkssturm were also generally older people, sometimes with WW1 experience.

Well, gang pressing and lack of WW1 experience maybe a big factor.

 

[Ancient Pioneer]

Russian prestige has been damaged. I dont think they will negotiate until they restore it with a significant victory. Unless, as you say, things are worse than they seem.

Russian prestige has been damaged in the eyes of the US ratpack, not globally. Almost every nation outside of the US dick riders understood that Russia has a lot of vested interests in this conflict that intersect with global needs. Namely the grain export agreement would be a large one, and the continued operation of pipelines across Ukraine from Russia (yes these still exist and provide petroleum products to Western Europe) or the excessively restrictive ROE that to this day are baffling, such as not knocking down every bridge across the Dnieper River. Africa knows that Russia took a big hit by letting Ukrainian grain products hit the market, it would have been far better for them to have them rot in Ukrainian silos just to deny Ukraine foreign currency and income, same with the pipelines that run across Ukraine from Russia, better to cut these off rather than literally feed Ukraine the diesel energy it needs for vehicles. Russia is taking the hard path here by ensuring these pipelines remain active for its Eastern European frenemies like Hungary and Serbia and even Poland where most of them terminate.

Russia has been playing a bad hand quite well diplomatically, far better than the US did with our abortive Bush-Obama era diplomacy and we had a great hand to work with.

It didn't work for the French either in 1940, and theirs was acknowledged by both sides to be impregnable from the German side.

Static fortifications are always best deployed as a means to delay a superior enemy because you can never hold them indefinitely.

The Magniot line was a fantastic option and very cost effective, it was the French Generals, Belgium and the Dutch that botched the entire opening phases of the war. Belgium left the Allies in 1938 only to get invaded next year, so France has to wait on the Belgian border just to rush in and haphazardly dig in, rather than already be in position like the original pre-1938 plan had in mind. Then the French moved too far north in an effort to make a space for the Dutch army to escape south into Belgium only for them to just shrug and surrender, leaving the French out of position which left the Ardenne Forest path open to be exploited. The major problem was Gamelin not adapting to the times, he set up shop in a chateau without a phone connection, the nearest one was literally an hour away by car, so he was perpetually caught flat footed since every order he had had a lag time of a few hours for him to first receive it, process it and then issue new orders.

 

[Susanna]

The major problem was Gamelin not adapting to the times, he set up shop in a chateau without a phone connection, the nearest one was literally an hour away by car, so he was perpetually caught flat footed since every order he had had a lag time of a few hours for him to first receive it, process it and then issue new orders.

Incompetence so great I'd call him traitor if it weren't for his steadfast refusal to even acknowledge the Vichy government. Even in the previous world war telephones had been crucial, and the tempo then was much less intensive. To be fair to him, I don't think anyone could have anticipated that the Germans would be so stupid as to just rush rush rush, but Rommel was out of control and this lack of strategy just happens to work when your enemy incapacitates himself by lack of telephones and radio.

But Gamelin refusing to do anything until May for no good reason, even when everyone knew Germany was gathering troops and even the date they planned to attack on, kind of puts him right back in the traitor camp. He didn't literally betray anyone, but he refused to do the basics right, which is baffling because he wasn't stupid. Certainly he was smart enough to understand that it would have been better to step down rather than do whatever you can call what he did.

 

[Betonhaus]

Russian prestige has been damaged in the eyes of the US ratpack, not globally. Almost every nation outside of the US dick riders understood that Russia has a lot of vested interests in this conflict that intersect with global needs. Namely the grain export agreement would be a large one, and the continued operation of pipelines across Ukraine from Russia (yes these still exist and provide petroleum products to Western Europe) or the excessively restrictive ROE that to this day are baffling, such as not knocking down every bridge across the Dnieper River. Africa knows that Russia took a big hit by letting Ukrainian grain products hit the market, it would have been far better for them to have them rot in Ukrainian silos just to deny Ukraine foreign currency and income, same with the pipelines that run across Ukraine from Russia, better to cut these off rather than literally feed Ukraine the diesel energy it needs for vehicles. Russia is taking the hard path here by ensuring these pipelines remain active for its Eastern European frenemies like Hungary and Serbia and even Poland where most of them terminate.

Russia has been playing a bad hand quite well diplomatically, far better than the US did with our abortive Bush-Obama era diplomacy and we had a great hand to work with.

Russia has been fighting this war with honor and integrity, which I do believe will pay dividends down the road.

 

[Ancient Pioneer]

Incompetence so great I'd call him traitor if it weren't for his steadfast refusal to even acknowledge the Vichy government.

Gamelin was chosen precisely because he was a staunch Republican and wouldn't tolerate antics from the Communist, Fascist and Royalist(Bonapartist, Orléanist or god help your brain, Bourbon) poltics within the army. Gamelin was an anchor that prevented regime change in France during the rather hectic 1930s. Also he was well regarded running into WW2 because he was largely responsible for drafting the Battle of the Marne for Joffre which saved France from capitulation in WW1. He wasn't a terrible choice, all of the good generals like Foch were in the grave at that point and the next generation was too warped by their experiences in WW1 where defensive planning always won out over highly aggressive charging.

I don't think anyone could have anticipated that the Germans would be so stupid as to just rush rush rush,

The French should have known better because they had played around with maneuver warfare in the interwar period and had a culture of attack, most prominently showcased in Napoleon's campaigns.

 

[MrJokerRager]

Belgiums are a fake and gay country, like Hoholstan.

A bunch of Dutch and French mixed breed Catholic rape babies in denial.

Founded and created by the British.

 

[Homo neanderthalensis]

Ukrayivne is wiynievng. Amerimutts, please send more billions and Hunter Biden paintings, to nr. 1 dreamer and penis piano player Zelenskiyiv. Slayviya Ukrayiniyne.

 

[Rubick]

Belgiums are a fake and gay country, like Hoholstan.

A bunch of Dutch and French mixed breed Catholic rape babies in denial.

Founded and created by the British.

On the other hand they make excellent food. Even their food at the fuel pump station especcially shell's is fucking quality.

 

[Butterschmalz]

 

[Sir Joahim Browinson III]

My Twitter feed has been full of NAFO and other Pro-Ukraine accounts lately. Looks like the propaganda funding just got a bump because what the fuck happened to cause this spike in rhetoric?

Probably because Russia declared LGBTQ+ an extreemist and it assblasted a bunch western elite into ordering their lahta to go full throtle.

 

[prolapsed_cranium]

Russian prestige has been damaged. I dont think they will negotiate until they restore it with a significant victory. Unless, as you say, things are worse than they seem.

Not at all.

They have weathered the full brunt of NATO and EU efforts. Their prestige is pretty high right now

 

[Male Idiot]

Russia is fighting a bit held back way. It may damage some prestige but also prevents the Gaza situation with hundreds of dead kids.

It is a far cry from the prestige loss the US had when they let darkies Floyd their cities.

Plus Russia not doing the giant rape horde of utter civilian bombardment that they did in WW2 is a change most sane eastern europeans would get amd appreciate.

Tl,dr, Ruskies are keeping civilian deaths down in a surprisingly civilised manner.

While Israel is bombing Gaza into a mass grave, and America lets criminals burn their cities down, which would never happen in a civilised country like China or Russia.

I can't stress enough how badly the floydie riots made the US look weak.

 

[crustystipend]

For the schadenfreude junkies out there...

• Putin can smile. Russia's economy has not yet collapsed under the costs of war and sanctions. The Ukrainian troops have not yet pushed his soldiers back. The Russian population is not yet rebelling.
• The West was convinced that Putin's perfidious plan was doomed to failure and that sooner or later he would have to pay a high economic and political price for the war of aggression. After 21 months of war, Putin's payday is not in sight, on the contrary: the Kremlin ruler's calculations are working out wonderfully so far.
• Russia's economy has grown since the invasion, largely due to the massive increase in arms production. Putin has not become an international pariah. He recently spoke at eye level with Olaf Scholz and the other heads of government at the virtual G20 meeting . Domestically, the autocrat is in no trouble. And even on the war front things are going better again. Ukrainians now fear that Putin's soldiers could go on the offensive and occupy new territory.
• The Russian president enjoys his run and displays a self-confidence that is difficult to bear. "We have become stronger," Putin said this week in a widely watched video message to the meeting of the so-called World Council of the Russian People, an organization under the auspices of the Russian Orthodox Church. Putin raved about the annexation of Ukrainian territories and that Russia had regained its "sovereignty as a world power." It sounded like a premature campaign speech before the "presidential elections" next year.
• The fuel for the Russian economy, even in the second year of the war, is the persistently high price of oil. After all, Russia's fossil fuels were not subject to sanctions. The switch to a war economy may not be a particularly sustainable or healthy economic policy, but it works in the short and probably medium term and generates growth from which Russians ultimately benefit. Unemployment is at a low level. Russia's construction industry is even reporting records.
• This means that the economic collapse longed for in the West will not happen. The country is not only maneuvering its way around the sanctions with the help of China and other non-democratic partner countries. Moscow continues to benefit from the fact that the Western creators of the export bans do not close existing loopholes .
• The hope that the Russian population could begin to protest against the government and war because of shortages and deprivation has been dashed. Serious sociologists still see no evidence of growing war weariness or at least none that could turn into activism. A significant number of Russians do want negotiations - but only those that end with Russia's war gains being cemented.
• The number of Russian opponents of the war only briefly increased at the moment when the Kremlin announced a partial mobilization and for many men it was literally a matter of their own skin. Since then, the Russian regime has avoided another official wave of mobilization, at least, so we hear, until after the elections. Many men from the first wave were still not allowed to return home from the front, but that only accounts for a manageable group of mothers and wives. The majority are not interested in the suffering of others.
• Putin's rule, unfortunately there is no way to sugarcoat it, is more stable and unchallenged than it has been for a long time. Liberal opposition members have left the country or are sitting in prison camps as political prisoners. Critical reporting was banned and driven into exile through the introduction of de facto wartime censorship. Anyone who criticizes the war or even just calls it a " war " risks going to prison for years for denigrating the armed forces. The Russians who pay for their convictions with their own freedom deserve all respect and support, but they are too few to change the depressing overall picture.
• Of course, Russia is only strengthened by the standards of an unscrupulous autocrat. The country is morally weakened and many bright minds have left it. In the occupied territories of Ukraine, Moscow's governors are brutally suppressing any resistance. An arrest warrant was issued against Putin personally by the International Criminal Court for the abduction of Ukrainian children. The Kremlin is sweeping the number of dead and injured under the carpet for good reason. And the fact that Russia is now releasing the murderers and serious criminals it recruited in prisons after they have been deployed to the front will come at a price for society.
• Nevertheless, according to the current interim results, Putin is the winner. His regime has become even more stable after two years of bloodshed. For that to change, the price of oil would have to fall and sanctions would have to be tightened; The balance of power on the battlefield would have to be reversed, for example through more Western arms deliveries to Ukraine. Only then could Putin's payday come after all.

 

[prolapsed_cranium]

While there will be backlash from the NAFOtards that loose their minds once Ukraine throws in the towel........these larpers that actually fought will be a bigger threat than ISIS



It's going to be weird as hell watching Kiev get Tomahawked to stop the GUR terror teams from running wild.

 

[Useful_Mistake]

While there will be backlash from the NAFOtards that loose their minds once Ukraine throws in the towel........these larpers that actually fought will be a bigger threat than ISIS

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It's going to be weird as hell watching Kiev get Tomahawked to stop the GUR terror teams from running wild.

"Europeans won't like it, but this is what they want"

What the fuck does this even mean?