Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Doinker Marmalade]

This rationale likely went through a dozen levels of Pentagon officials and none questioned how retarded this comparison is

WTF are you talking about, it's a perfectly reasonable comparison, as we all know, BOTH the Taliban and the Baathist army had:
-Satellite surveillance systems to pre-emptively warn them of American advances.
-Thousands of surveillance drones flying over the contact line 24/7, which also provides spotting for artillery and laser designation for laser guided rounds (In both theaters the US faced against opponents armed with state of the art laser guided precision 152 mm artillery shells and 120mm mortar shells).
-The ability to fire 20-40,000 artillery shells per day from hundreds of artillery systems with modern fire control.
-Modern attack helicopters with modern infrared cameras able to launch ATGMs at a range of 9-10 kms.
-The most dense minefields in the history of modern warfare.
-An air force capable of lobbing 20 tons of precision guided ordinance daily.
-Tens of thousands of tanks, IFVs, APCs deployed in the field.
-Hundreds if not thousands of ATGM emplacements with a 8-10km range.
-A cloud of EW and jamming so dense that it can be seen from space by radar sensing satellites.
-A regular standing army, some conscripts thrown here and there, but mostly volunteers and professionals who underwent months if not years of training before going to the field.
-A multilayered air defense system.

Also, the US military had no air force to speak of during Iraq and Afghanistan, none, zero air support whatsoever. As you can see, it's a VERY apt comparison.

 

[Tamerlane]

Ahem*...McConnell, Romney, Schumer, Durbin, Biden, Pelosi...do I need to name more? I'm not saying Graham isn't among this crowd, but he is far from the slimiest.

I agree, I didn't say slimiest. I said none slimier.

 

[Betonhaus]

WTF are you talking about, it's a perfectly reasonable comparison, as we all know, BOTH the Taliban and the Baathist army had:
-Satellite surveillance systems to pre-emptively warn them of American advances.
-Thousands of surveillance drones flying over the contact line 24/7, which also provides spotting for artillery and laser designation for laser guided rounds (In both theaters the US faced against opponents armed with state of the art laser guided precision 152 mm artillery shells and 120mm mortar shells).
-The ability to fire 20-40,000 artillery shells per day from hundreds of artillery systems with modern fire control.
-Modern attack helicopters with modern infrared cameras able to launch ATGMs at a range of 9-10 kms.
-The most dense minefields in the history of modern warfare.
-An air force capable of lobbing 20 tons of precision guided ordinance daily.
-Tens of thousands of tanks, IFVs, APCs deployed in the field.
-Hundreds if not thousands of ATGM emplacements with a 8-10km range.
-A cloud of EW and jamming so dense that it can be seen from space by radar sensing satellites.
-A regular standing army, some conscripts thrown here and there, but mostly volunteers and professionals who underwent months if not years of training before going to the field.
-A multilayered air defense system.

Also, the US military also had no air force to speak of during Iraq and Afghanistan, none, zero air support whatsoever. As you can see, it's a VERY apt comparison.

America is a trust fund kid pretending to be a superpower by borrowing money from everyone without working for it

 

[Rubick]

-- The US felt that they had provided all the war material Ukraine needed to break through the Russian lines and reach the sea of Azov. "they received about two dozen Mine Clearing Line Charge launchers (MCLCs)

Two dozen MCLCs would mean around 8 to 12 CEC 's only. That's not much to put it lightly.

more than 40 mine rollers and excavators,

That's barely enough for two divisions.


I'm assuming Ukrainians still had a lot of soviet stuff in regards to this equipment. Otherwise this has to be a joke.

- The US was pushing for a focused single attack with everything Ukraine had through Robotyne to the sea of azov.

Congratulations, Russians would know for certain what you were doing and concentrate air and arty assets along with their much smaller number of stretched manpower onto there and likely would have even used all their mobilized reserves on account of now they would have a huge opportunity to finish off Ukrainians forces in one " giant" set piece

-- The Ukrainians didn't start the counteroffensive early enough. They should have started in April.

They didn't have the equipment nor manpower.

-- They didn't properly use smoke and mine=clearing equipment provided by NATO to launch a rapid advance.

If they had any legacy left from the Soviet era. Ukrainians likely were far better in this field then most of NATO.

-- They overestimated the ability of the Ukrainians to be quickly trained in advanced NATO tactics.

There is nothing advance about NATO's tactics. That isn't being thought in any other armed forces. NATO's doctrine is however a different matter. Which Ukrainians can't do berceuse of fuck load of reasons.



And frankly NATO's training ain't nothing to write home about.


The six days war ...there was a case of two Russian motor rifle companies encountering and sweeping aside portion of two "NATO trained" Georgian brigades. (This shit is not supposed to happen even Desert storm didn't see similar shit happen. The closest being a US tank company sweeping aside a Iraqi tank brigade or regiment and a company or two of infantry. IIRC)

Speaking of Iraqi's ! NATO's trained Iraqi's got utterly butt fucked by ISIS and their bunch of Toyota's.

Afghanistan ? ANA's hand full of top field commanders among a lot of shit ones where all Soviet trained. Commanders like Sheren Shah. A man NATO wished they had clones of in Afghanistan.

-- They were frustrated with the defense of Bakhmut when they thought the Ukrainians should be going all out for Crimea.

Yeah, that would be one big YOLO moment. As Crimea was well fortified.

 

[pylosurf]

WTF are you talking about, it's a perfectly reasonable comparison, as we all know, BOTH the Taliban and the Baathist army had:
-Satellite surveillance systems to pre-emptively warn them of American advances.
-Thousands of surveillance drones flying over the contact line 24/7, which also provides spotting for artillery and laser designation for laser guided rounds (In both theaters the US faced against opponents armed with state of the art laser guided precision 152 mm artillery shells and 120mm mortar shells).
-The ability to fire 20-40,000 artillery shells per day from hundreds of artillery systems with modern fire control.
-Modern attack helicopters with modern infrared cameras able to launch ATGMs at a range of 9-10 kms.
-The most dense minefields in the history of modern warfare.
-An air force capable of lobbing 20 tons of precision guided ordinance daily.
-Tens of thousands of tanks, IFVs, APCs deployed in the field.
-Hundreds if not thousands of ATGM emplacements with a 8-10km range.
-A cloud of EW and jamming so dense that it can be seen from space by radar sensing satellites.
-A regular standing army, some conscripts thrown here and there, but mostly volunteers and professionals who underwent months if not years of training before going to the field.
-A multilayered air defense system.

Also, the US military also had no air force to speak of during Iraq and Afghanistan, none, zero air support whatsoever. As you can see, it's a VERY apt comparison.

And let us not forget:

+ Essentially infinite petroleum

 

[Feline Supremacist]

Basically, the Ukraine needs some serious denazification on a level that makes 1945 Germany look quaint.

I did say "Whatever its takes".

Buried in one of the earlier iterations of this thread is my prediction that the millions of hohols scattered about in the West would become a huge security threat as all the NATO Wunderwaffe was old junk, Russia easily made it to Kiev and withdrew on its own during negotiations only to get stabbed in the back and the Russian Aerospace Forces were establishing air dominance over the Ukraine. If I had a dime for every negrate and insult ("Vatnigger! Commie! Stupid cunt! Faggot!" etc) as well the tl;dr that ranges from "Here's why you're an idiot...stfu" to "OK whatever but I love America its the bestest and you're a traitor" I'd be a wealthy woman. You know why?

I grew up with Russians. And Ukrainians (because if there was a Russian a Ukrainian was close by and vice versa). Russians can be arrogant, sure, but Ukrainians can be arrogant and retarded pit bulls. I know my moskals and hohols. Leveraging the latter to get at the former was a pathetic mistake, for Ukrainians and for us. Not for Russia; we, the West, did them the favor of taking them in.


Link/Archive

Enjoy your revanchist hohol terrorists as well as new members of the RuAF, pigger simps. You have earned not one but two painful bites in the ass.

 

[HOMO FOR LIFE RETURNS]

"I will not vote for any aid until we secure our own border. Reform asylum, reform parole... I'm not helping Ukraine until we help ourselves." - Senator Lindsey Graham, Dec 4, 2023.

It's officially over now.


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Is this the same guy that glorified fighting til the last men lol.

 

[Brute Male!]

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https://archive.ph/FTR0m

I get immense amounts of schadenfreude everytime EU technocrats own bureaucratic nightmare works against themselves. Imagine getting rule-lawyered by your own system lol lmao.

 

[crustystipend]

Someone call a wellness check on the Economist's editor, he appears to be overdosing on cope and sneed. We're getting almost daily articles about factories in europe shutting down and various industries ringing alarm bells about the economic outlook but trust the science media, the west will ramp up their awesome industrial might any day now.

This is what happens when you think war is like an RTS game, you just need to double or triple up on War Factories so you can spam Mammoth Tanks.

WTF are you talking about, it's a perfectly reasonable comparison, as we all know, BOTH the Taliban and the Baathist army had:
-Satellite surveillance systems to pre-emptively warn them of American advances.
-Thousands of surveillance drones flying over the contact line 24/7, which also provides spotting for artillery and laser designation for laser guided rounds (In both theaters the US faced against opponents armed with state of the art laser guided precision 152 mm artillery shells and 120mm mortar shells).
-The ability to fire 20-40,000 artillery shells per day from hundreds of artillery systems with modern fire control.
-Modern attack helicopters with modern infrared cameras able to launch ATGMs at a range of 9-10 kms.
-The most dense minefields in the history of modern warfare.
-An air force capable of lobbing 20 tons of precision guided ordinance daily.
-Tens of thousands of tanks, IFVs, APCs deployed in the field.
-Hundreds if not thousands of ATGM emplacements with a 8-10km range.
-A cloud of EW and jamming so dense that it can be seen from space by radar sensing satellites.
-A regular standing army, some conscripts thrown here and there, but mostly volunteers and professionals who underwent months if not years of training before going to the field.
-A multilayered air defense system.

Let's not forget
+ a completely blockaded adversary who can't get diapers and baby formula through its borders because your drones and navy are interdicting everything that moves.
+ adversary is diplomatically isolated and does not have a UNSC veto

 

[crustystipend]

"I trusted you to fight for us" - GODDAMN AMERICANS, SUIT UP AND LINE UP

 

[crustystipend]

Leveraging [hohols] to get at [moskals] was a pathetic mistake

The only thing more retarded was to push Russia and China together. That was the 2nd most retarded thing the US did. The most retarded thing the US did was of course to seize sovereign USD holdings and lock the Russians out of SWIFT.

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

The only thing more retarded was to push Russia and China together. That was the 2nd most retarded thing the US did. The most retarded thing the US did was of course to seize sovereign USD holdings and lock the Russians out of SWIFT.

Freezing all the Russian oligarch fortunes was another negative IQ move. The US really hoped Putin would be overthrown in a coup, those oligarchs were Putin's only adversaries and those funds might've helped. Instead the US crippled the only people who could've mattered and forced their money all back into Russia under Putin's direct control.

 

[The Foxtrot]

Freezing all the Russian oligarch fortunes was another negative IQ move. The US really hoped Putin would be overthrown in a coup, those oligarchs were Putin's only adversaries and those funds might've helped. Instead the US crippled the only people who could've mattered and forced their money all back into Russia under Putin's direct control.

Not only that, the USA made sure that money was instead re-invested into the Russian economy, directly strengthening Russia in the short and long term.

Instead of "crippling" Russia, Our Democracy(TM) made Russia far more stable and dangerous.

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

Not only that, the USA made sure that money was instead re-invested into the Russian economy, directly strengthening Russia in the short and long term.

Instead of "crippling" Russia, Our Democracy(TM) made Russia far more stable and dangerous.

And that was like the first day of the war! The US' first decision in response to the invasion guaranteed its success.

 

[The Ugly One]

America's delusion that Iraq and Afghanistan in any way prepared us for this is a sight to behold. Korea was over 70 years ago. I'll bet nobody in a decision-making role then is even alive today.

 

[crustystipend]

And that was like the first day of the war! The US' first decision in response to the invasion guaranteed its success.

Right? The Atlanticist blob is as incompetent as it is influential. It can, time after time, drag the world into wars of choice but from Iraq to Ukraine, it bungles again and again and again. From the macro level to the micro . Just take the Krynki pocket. It's insane that rather than tell Ukraine it's a terrible idea to try and establish a bridgehead across a river when your adversary has superior artillery and air power they prefer to depend on laughable shit like this.

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

Right? The Atlanticist blob is as incompetent as it is influential. It can, time after time, drag the world into wars of choice but from Iraq to Ukraine, it bungles again and again and again. From the macro level to the micro . Just take the Krynki pocket. It's insane that rather than tell Ukraine it's a terrible idea to try and establish a bridgehead across a river when your adversary has superior artillery and air power but no, they depend on laughable shit like this.

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I laughed out loud at that just now then realized those two guys in that canoe are almost certainly dead.

 

[Radola Gajda]

Absolute state of Nafoid faggots

More and more of the NAFOniggers are leaving.
View attachment 5542322
Assuming this is real, did the NAFO cringe cause the cancer or did the cancer cause the NAFO cringe?

At least this one has legitimate reason to quit (if he says truth) many Nafoids quit after being annoying for almost 2 years and threatening that they will keep cringe flowing until Ukraine gets its pre 2014 borders back. And they did lose interest moment there is next big thing lol

 

[Sir Joahim Browinson III]

Freezing all the Russian oligarch fortunes was another negative IQ move. The US really hoped Putin would be overthrown in a coup, those oligarchs were Putin's only adversaries and those funds might've helped. Instead the US crippled the only people who could've mattered and forced their money all back into Russia under Putin's direct control.

At this point I am entirely convinced that there was no other cunning plan besides trying to once again invoke righteous indignation. West no longer cares about long game and instead tries to moral police on the level of entire countries. All of it is deeply idealistic not pragmatic.

 

[Ancient Pioneer]

This is a summary of part of the article that is available for free.

- The US was pushing for a focused single attack with everything Ukraine had through Robotyne to the sea of azov.
- Based on experience in Afghanistan and Iraq, the US military considered that any estimates of Ukrainian losses made by the US would likely be overestimates.
- The Ukrainians preferred a wider offensive along several points on the line.

- The US blamed the following for the failure of the operations
-- The Ukrainians didn't start the counteroffensive early enough. They should have started in April.
-- They didn't properly use smoke and mine=clearing equipment provided by NATO to launch a rapid advance.
-- They overestimated the ability of the Ukrainians to be quickly trained in advanced NATO tactics.
-- They were frustrated with the defense of Bakhmut when they thought the Ukrainians should be going all out for Crimea.
-- Jake Sullivan of the biden administration - attorney and military genius -- according to the story anticipated the difficulty of breaking through the Russian fortifications as early as February 2023. He then talked to the defense secretary and both offered the wise advise that "Ukraine, to be successful, needed to fight in a different way".
-- The US felt that they had provided all the war material Ukraine needed to break through the Russian lines and reach the sea of Azov. "they received about two dozen Mine Clearing Line Charge launchers (MCLCs), more than 40 mine rollers and excavators, 1,000 Bangalore torpedoes, and more than 80,000 smoke grenades."



- Ukraine said:

-- The wargaming used by the US to design the offensive didn't work because of the US lack of experience in large conventional warfare and in particular conventional warfare in which a particular side does not have total air superiority. The expectations of the planning didn't at all match the reality of the battlefield.
-- The Ukrainians expected that a Ukrainian attack all along the front in 2023 would cause problems among Russian's conscript troops. They were uneasy about launching a concentrated attack at a single point.
-- The Ukrainians complained that alot of the vehicles given to them had come out of storage with problems. Many vehicles lacked radios. Other vehicles arrived with mechanical problems in the tracks.

Ukraine is 100% correct and the US is 100% retarded. Ukraine CANNOT employ these mine clearing equipment because some fucking lancet drone will immediately race in and destroy it or one of those FPV drones will dive in for a mobility kill on a tire or track. The US equipment and doctrine has been absolutely fucking buck broken by these fucking drones and the Pentagon and other Western style military live in a delusional state of mind where they refuse to acknowledge how much these cheap pieces of shit have changed warfare to the detriment of existing doctrine dating back to Desert Storm. The US has also been sending literal fucking trash vehicles to Ukraine, I remember seeing a lot of videos from Ukrainian sources in 2021 and 2022 where they'd take receipt of a Humvee and the floor was entirely missing like it was a car out of the fucking Flintstones. The US has been offloading stuff from the discard pile and acting like it was fresh equipment right off the line and expecting top tier results from the units that got the equipment.

I really fucking hate watching my country use and abuse other people like this, the overt warmongering and callousness in using Ukraine as a tool to bludgeon with is almost certainly going to have blow back in real terms, not just the degraded diplomatic reputation the US has engendered over this shitshow.