Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

[Cave Fisher]

Octavia's personality makes no sense other than Vivzie wanting to make an emo/goth girl with daddy issues because she knows it it's popular. She literally has no friends because Vivzie cant explain Octavia hanging out with punks goths or royalty.

I feel like Octavia's entire existence is because Viv just wanted Stolas to have his own Loona to make you feel more sorry for him without thinking it through at all. When you look at her character it just doesn't add up with anything we've seen at all about the Goetias. She was born and raised underneath Stolas and Stella in a mansion filled with imp servants, but she doesn't seem to take after ANY of her parents few main traits, like Stolas' lack of empathy, Stella's anger issues and tacked on cruelty, or either of their casual classism.
You just have this unexplained goth girl in a family where everyone else is all royal and formal, which, like has been said before, means she's probably just gonna get married off to another gay owl because the book she's supposed to study, if that one line from Paimon about Stolas studying it is any indication, is currently being traded off for monthly imp sex.

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It's official: the sense of humour helluva boss fans have is beyond parody.

Also, worth noting:
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Dude, someone tell this Sam Haft guy that Viv doesn't wanna fuck him or be his best friend.

 

[fishercat]

I love watching the Streisand Effect happen in real time. If Viv hadn't gotten mad about that Digital Circus video, no one would be posting these "if Vivzie wrote it" parodies.

Honestly it's worth it just for the Adventure Time one.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

I love watching the Streisand Effect happen in real time. If Viv hadn't gotten mad about that Digital Circus video, no one would be posting these "if Vivzie wrote it" parodies.

Honestly it's worth it just for the Adventure Time one.

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The Adventure Time one is great

 

[Bass_Ackdwars]

She literally has no friends because Vivzie cant explain Octavia hanging out with punks goths or royalty.

I feel like Octavia's entire existence is because Viv just wanted Stolas to have his own Loona to make you feel more sorry for him without thinking it through at all. When you look at her character it just doesn't add up with anything we've seen at all about the Goetias. She was born and raised underneath Stolas and Stella in a mansion filled with imp servants, but she doesn't seem to take after ANY of her parents few main traits, like Stolas' lack of empathy, Stella's anger issues and tacked on cruelty, or either of their casual classism.
You just have this unexplained goth girl in a family where everyone else is all royal and formal, which, like has been said before, means she's probably just gonna get married off to another gay owl because the book she's supposed to study, if that one line from Paimon about Stolas studying it is any indication, is currently being traded off for monthly imp sex.

I know the actual answer is that Viv and her writing team not thinking anything all the way through... but the only way that I can interpret Octavia's personality and actions happening within canon logically is that Stolas and Stella interacted with Octavia so little she was raised more by the imps staffing her house than her own parents.

 

[Guysho]

So Viv's basically a female KingcobraJFS, only the latter made me laugh harder than anything in HB and Viv doesn't possess a KF thread, yet. Though, my sense of humour is a bit odd. His door opening by itself, causing a neighbour to hear his ramblings while walking by is so amusing to me.. There's also this spider that randomly appears while he's away during a stream.

And one cannot forget about him raging at inanimate objects.

Spilling an assload of slop

He is the cartoon character Viv wishes she made.

 

[LucasSomething]

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It's official: the sense of humour helluva boss fans have is beyond parody.

Also, worth noting:
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>As a friend and collaborator

Nice way to throw away any chance to take your words seriously bro.

I havent seen people this defensive over a show since RWBY fans and then Steven Universe fans, except HB fans will unironically wave their low standards like a badge of honor while the creator herself acts like it's just haters who dont get it. It would be so much easier if everyone just admitted it's not supposed to be high art anyway.

He is right about Helluva being essentially a gay musical dramedy now tho, thats a much better reason to bash Vivzie's writing.

I feel like Octavia's entire existence is because Viv just wanted Stolas to have his own Loona to make you feel more sorry for him without thinking it through at all. When you look at her character it just doesn't add up with anything we've seen at all about the Goetias. She was born and raised underneath Stolas and Stella in a mansion filled with imp servants, but she doesn't seem to take after ANY of her parents few main traits, like Stolas' lack of empathy, Stella's anger issues and tacked on cruelty, or either of their casual classism.

She clearly wanted both her yaoi softbois to have daughter so people can fanon ideas of them bonding with each other daughters. It's fandom fuel.

You're right that Octavia almost feels like an someone's OC than an in-universe character. Considering they use loona's trauma to explain her trust issues, Octavia barely looks "traumatized" since she mostly whines about dad forgeting her special day and is very chill compared to 99% of the cast, like she wasnt written by Vivzie.

I know the actual answer is that Viv and her writing team not thinking anything all the way through... but the only way that I can interpret Octavia's personality and actions happening within canon logically is that Stolas and Stella interacted with Octavia so little she was raised more by the imps staffing her house than her own parents.

Even if she was, you'd think Octavia would be more attenttion seeking than she is, but when she takes the book, Stolas is genuinely surprised and asks "Why would she do this?!" as if it's her first time disobeying ever. (Just like blitzo not grasping stolas can get hurt, they have to make everyone retarded for drama.)

Even if she was raised by the staff, her not dressing like a noble should be red flag enough that she isnt being raised "correctly" but no one ever goes to ask stolas "yo why is your daughter dressed like a commoner and hanging with imps?" because she doesnt exist as her own character, she is just a tool for driving stolas drama.

Hell the fact we still havent seen how Stella treats octavia is fucked and infixable at this point. If Stella is a good mom, she shouldnt let octavia dress like a commoner or be raised by imps, and if stella is a bad mom it raises the question to why octavia doesnt whine about her like she does with stolas.

Either way they go with octavia from now on is a lose-lose scenario that will feel like a retcon.

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

She clearly wanted both her yaoi softbois to have daughter so people can fanon ideas of them bonding with each other daughters. It's fandom fuel.

ding ding ding

 

[The Fair Lady]

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Also, worth noting:
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Goddamn, that’s some extreme copium. And of course Viv’s number one white knight DaniDraws is there too.

“Some of these are actually funny!”
I wonder why you find them funny. Sure says a lot.

She clearly wanted both her yaoi softbois to have daughter so people can fanon ideas of them bonding with each other daughters. It's fandom fuel.

Yup, nail on the head. Loona and Octavia are excuses for yaoi dad bonding.

 

[AnOminous]

Nice way to throw away any chance to take your words seriously bro.

It's Sam Haft. He's literally part of the core cast.

He basically wrote the Stolas theme.

 

[The Nothingness]

Literally the only thing Hazbin even did right at this point is that it proved that Indie animation is viable. TADC cemented it. Beyond that, Hazbin really has no place in animation history, and it'll soon be forgotten within a few years.

It will probably be featured on a future list of animated shows that were a flash in the pan.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

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The funny thing is that this guy is close to being right in that the memes are close to why Helluva can be funny, but honestly when he mentioned the "misunderstood gay" characters bit is what lost me.

Helluva was a funny show, but it got derailed by becoming a soap opera about annoying gay people. The comedy and drama conflict with each other heavily since the drama with these comedic characters doesn't work due to the comedy along with the fact that when a character is made sympathetic, they drop their flaws to smooth them out into a precious widdle baby.

While the last two episodes were better than most in the season (which doesn't say much), Fizz is a great example of this because he used to be a rival who bullied the shit out of Blitzo, but quickly become babified so we feel bad for him.

If you're going to do a comedic show and add drama elements, keep the characters consistent with how they are the rest of the time, or at least make it feel natural when they shift away from the comedic traits to be serious, which doesn't work in Helluva because we have Stolas being a creepy predatory comic relief to "oh no he totally cares about his daughter and a serious relationship" after openly lusting most of the time.

 

[Beautiful Border]

Everyone complaining about the bad writing should be more considerate. They need to remember that at least 70% of Vivzie's mental energy is spent fighting the compulsion to kill off Millie so she can place Moxxie in some kind of gay relationship

 

[InJailOutSoon]

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Also, worth noting:
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My god, what a pretensious asshat. All he had to say was that it was funny, but nope. Had to make a long-winded explanation. Well, I can do one as well. I agree, it's funny, but not because of the all the cussing. It's because it's exaggeration of the writing style that's Helluva Boss (and most likely Hazbin Hotel in the future). And yes, if it was just Blitzø doing all the cussing, most people wouldn't point it out. It would just be part of his character. But when almost everyone else cusses as much as he does, even if it's not in their character to do so, the swears lose any meaning with what they once had.

And really? A "gay broadway Bojack dramedy"? I get the gay, broadway, and dramedy part (even if the comedy is lacking), but I can't see the Bojack. I've not watched a lot of Bojack, but what I can gather is the appeal was the nuance of the characters. The protagonists weren't always the good guys, and the antagonists weren't always the bad guys. Everyone has differing levels of morality and you could see why a character would do something, even if you didn't agree with it. The whole point of Bojack's character was that he had a lot of built up trauma, but never coped from it in a healthy manner. And because of that, he would hurt people, even if he didn't mean to. Even if her felt terrible afterwards. The whole point of his story was that he had to deal with this shit and take responsibility for these actions. Learn from his past mistakes and do better. I can kind of see that in Helluva Boss, but it's so shallow. The character will do a bad action due to trauma, but won't take full responsibility for the action. They say they will do better and that they're sorry, but by the next episode they do the same shit all over again. It wouldn't be so bad and pretty realistic, but the other characters don't react like they did the same bad action again. At least when Bojack pulled that shit, the people around him reacted accordingly and got him out of their lives.

And yeah, there are a ton of "misunderstood" lgbt characters in Helluva Boss. Good for you. Do you want a medal? Because they aren't that really deep when almost every other one of them is some horny bastard with a sad backstory. Even with the flashback of Moxxie with Chaz, the only thing between the two of them is just sex. Like is that the only reason why Moxxie liked him? Because of the sex? Because it sure appears that way. No wonder his dad thought that all there was for being gay is a bunch of dildos.

Sorry for the long rant, but the whole situation is really annoying. No one would be clowning on the show this much if the people running this show (no hate on the animators, and other people who make this show possible. They work their asses off. This is just to the people in the studio who are constantly complaining on twitter), didn't have a stick up their ass and I think what they're making is just the greatest thing to ever grace the Earth. It's not. Eat some humble pie.

 

[Beautiful Border]

So Viv's basically a female KingcobraJFS, only the latter made me laugh harder than anything in HB and Viv doesn't possess a KF thread, yet.

This is basically the unofficial Vivzie lolcow thread already, to be honest

 

[LucasSomething]

They say they will do better and that they're sorry, but by the next episode they do the same shit all over again. It wouldn't be so bad and pretty realistic, but the other characters don't react like they did the same bad action again. At least when Bojack pulled that shit, the people around him reacted accordingly and got him out of their lives.

I never watched Bojack and even i know that characters call him out often and he didnt get a perfect good ending.

If HB was like bojack, Octavia would've called out Loona on her bullshit because Stolas was already called out back in loo loo land so for him to not remember this day, he's not just trying he's lying about trying. But like we already said, Stolas gets rewarded for being a shit father who would rather spend time with blitzo than her.

In fact, it's WORSE than that, it's octavia who apologizes, and she doesnt even let him say sorry because he did nothing wrong am i rite?

Loona will also curbstomp blitzo for laughs and we're expected to let it pass cause she has trauma and it's funny. HB moral lesson is that abuse is fine as long as the abuser has a sad flashback and Viv portrays it as funny on that particular scene.

Even when things get better, they happen in borderline impossible disney happy ending scenarios. Octavia's 12 years of neglecment got solved by a stranger telling to get over it. All the years of pent up rage Fizz had for Blitzo were gone in one day. All the trauma fizz had from mammon was easily cured by having a supportive and ultra powerful boyfriend giving him a pep talk (if you dont date a sin i guess you lose).

I'm not asking for cynical sad endings to all these scenarios but HB is much more optimistic than bojack to warrant a comparison. Like, they can milk the drama for a while but we know stolas will get his gay happy ending.

 

[MalinformedSocialDetails]

The BoJack comparisons always burn me because that show, like it or hate it, was genius. Not perfect, but still genius. Vivzie will never write a character as nuanced as Beatrice Horseman or a scene as powerful as this.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

I never watched Bojack and even i know that characters call him out often and he didnt get a perfect good ending.

If HB was like bojack, Octavia would've called out Loona on her bullshit because Stolas was already called out back in loo loo land so for him to not remember this day, he's not just trying he's lying about trying. But like we already said, Stolas gets rewarded for being a shit father who would rather spend time with blitzo than her.

In fact, it's WORSE than that, it's octavia who apologizes, and she doesnt even let him say sorry because he did nothing wrong am i rite?

Loona will also curbstomp blitzo for laughs and we're expected to let it pass cause she has trauma and it's funny. HB moral lesson is that abuse is fine as long as the abuser has a sad flashback and Viv portrays it as funny on that particular scene.

Even when things get better, they happen in borderline impossible disney happy ending scenarios. Octavia's 12 years of neglecment got solved by a stranger telling to get over it. All the years of pent up rage Fizz had for Blitzo were gone in one day. All the trauma fizz had from mammon was easily cured by having a supportive and ultra powerful boyfriend giving him a pep talk (if you dont date a sin i guess you lose).

I'm not asking for cynical sad endings to all these scenarios but HB is much more optimistic than bojack to warrant a comparison. Like, they can milk the drama for a while but we know stolas will get his gay happy ending.

I remember hearing this and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think "fuck" is only said once every season and it's in the last episode of each one. It really helps makes the word more impactful in those dramatic moments. I'm not saying Helluva Boss needs to hold off their swearing, but maybe have a little more tact?

The BoJack comparisons always burn me because that show, like it or hate it, was genius. Not perfect, but still genius. Vivzie will never write a character as nuanced as Beatrice Horseman or a scene as powerful as this.

Geez, even Beatrice's father is pretty sympathetic. Like yes, he's a shitty dad, but he is supposed to be an exaggeration of fathers during that time. He's not supposed to let his own emotions get to him because he's the man of the house. Everyone relies on him. He lost a son too during the war but he can't properly grieve about it because he supposed to remain strong. And fix the problems in the household. Yes, a lobotomy is an extreme method, but this was during a time when that how a lot of mental issues were taken care of. You have to remember, this happens because Beatrice's mom had a mental breakdown and made her daughter drive home, and then she crashed the car because she stepped hard on the gas, almost getting them both kill. And she asked her husband to get her fixed because she couldn't deal with the grief she was feeling. It's all really depressing when you think about it.

I'm not saying the choices that characters from HB have to be good and they certainly don't have to be good people, but it needs to make sense. Let the audience understand why they decided this.

 

[Aero the Alcoholic Bat]

This is basically the unofficial Vivzie lolcow thread already, to be honest

If we do get an official Vivzie lolcow thread, would it just be this thread renamed, or do we have to start something in the prospering grounds?

 

[Gender: Xenomorph]

Reminds me of that meme when guys write girls, they're lesbians that wanna fuck eachother.

Well...

 

[NSJAP]