Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Feline Supremacist]

Congress passed a bill today, going to Biden's desk.

That stops Trump from trying to leave NATO without asking Congress.

The President has the power to make treaties with the advice and consent of the Senate as long as two-thirds of the Senators present concur. That's already in the Constitution. It's literal virtue signalling.

 

[Sister Miriam Godwinson]

Congress passed a bill today, going to Biden's desk.

That stops Trump from trying to leave NATO without asking Congress.

Huh, interesting. Looks like it IS afraid.

 

[Strix454]

Congress passed a bill today, going to Biden's desk.

That stops Trump from trying to leave NATO without asking Congress.

They can't constitutionally do that.

What they have actually done is create a law that doesn't allow the government to spend money withdrawing from NATO and which in the event of a president announcing a withdrawal from NATO would provide funds for the Senate to challenge a NATO withdrawal in the federal courts.

Its all stupid and it will not work. Its another symbolic action with no real meaning or effect other than to provide headlines to the media.

Besides which, no president including Trump was going to leave NATO in the first place.

 

[Sexual Chocolate]

Ukraine is not getting into the EU.

What does the EU get out of Ukranian membership?

It will cost yuge - big league - sums to reconstruct whatever's left of the country, most (?) of the mobile young people with prospects probably already live in Poland or Germany, and the place will have decades of paying massive welfare bills to the hundreds of thousands (millions?) of people who were crippled, blinded, or psychologically ruined by the war. Also war pensioners, war widows, orphans and all the old people who already lived in Ukraine and so on. Unfortunately, this demographic inverted pyramid means Ukraine is financially fucked for 100 years.

Ukraine has a great deal of fertile farmland, but I got the idea the EU was already struggling with the cost of existing agricultural subsidies, also their insane Net Zero hostility to agriculture in existing member states that caused Dutch farmer revolts, etc. So that doesn't add up.

We know about the organized crime problems in the Ukraine, which will become the EU's organized crime problem if they join.

Ukraine joining the EU after we have bled them white in the proxy war sounds like a great plan... from Uncle Sam's point of view.

Blow up Europe, make the Euroweenies pay the cleaning bill.

 

[Fapcop]

What does the EU get out of Ukranian membership?

Absolutely fuck all. The EU will keep finding Poland, Romania etc for decades to come up to the same standard of living that there is in Western Europe.

It’s an open secret that many of the countries were admitted too soon. Which led to Polacks wage dumping and the streets of any Northern European capital having a sizable population of Romanian beggars.

Any advantage, like cheap Ukrainian land can be obtained anyways. (For example by saying: “Yeah sure you can be a member… Remove the laws regarding land ownership first though.” And then pulling a Turkey on them.)

Ultimately though the balance will swing the other way. Having good relations with Russia is a much bigger advantage for the EU, and ultimately saner politicians, who now have to keep mum, will prevail.

ULTIMATELY NATO ONLY SERVES AMERICAN INTERESTS. It only serves to funnel billions of Euros to US weapons manufacturers. And the sooner the EU ruling classes acknowledge this, the better.

But “Muh security guarantees!” Ultimately NATO is built on the premise that the US will gladly sacrifice Chicago and New York to save Berlin and Warszawa. X for massive doubt.

 

[Sister Miriam Godwinson]

Ultimately though the balance will swing the other way. Having good relations with Russia is a much bigger advantage for the EU, and ultimately saner politicians, who now have to keep mum, will prevail.

Having good relations witgh Russia was a much bigger advantage for the Ukraine, and yet here we are.

 

[Fapcop]

Having good relations witgh Russia was a much bigger advantage for the Ukraine, and yet here we are.

For Ukraine yes. For the Ukraine ruling elite? And there’s also a sizable straight up Nazi element there.

(When I was in Kiev this summer, I saw a middle aged dude walking around WITH A LEIBSTANDARDE AH LOGO ON HIS TSHIRT, as if it was the most normal thing in the world. And he wasn’t the only guy wearing that kind of imagery.)

 

[Legato]

I've actually been wondering this myself so I had a look at the other thread and they all seem to fucking hate each other. A lot of autistic arguments about petty things and angry sticker spamming, general aura of negativity.

I won't directly mention anyone there but just have a look yourself; there's one normal person that, despite being obviously 100% pro-Ukraine, isn't pretending the Ukes are just days away from victory, isn't masturbating to videos of Russians being killed, and is trying to have a reasonable discussion based in realiyy. Needless to say this person is getting dogpiled by the rest.

Pretty gay thread tbh, wouldn't recommend.

The partitioning of discussion was NOT a mistake.

 

[Betonhaus]

I've actually been wondering this myself so I had a look at the other thread and they all seem to fucking hate each other. A lot of autistic arguments about petty things and angry sticker spamming, general aura of negativity.

I won't directly mention anyone there but just have a look yourself; there's one normal person that, despite being obviously 100% pro-Ukraine, isn't pretending the Ukes are just days away from victory, isn't masturbating to videos of Russians being killed, and is trying to have a reasonable discussion based in realiyy. Needless to say this person is getting dogpiled by the rest.

Pretty gay thread tbh, wouldn't recommend.

They have never been interested in the cold hard facts - instead they want to impose their vision of reality on the others. I saw that a year ago and realized Ukraine never had a chance of winning.

When you cannot tell what's real and what's fiction, look at the people that hold each of those beliefs. What is the integrity of their character? What are the grounds that they hold those beliefs? How do they interact with people with differing beliefs?

 

[kuuu]

https://en.sputniknews.africa/20231214/takeaways-from-putins-annual-press-conference-qa-session-1064122150.html

https://ghostarchive.org/archive/dNMxG

 

[Corn Syrup Connoisseur]

Latest babble from ISW:



What's interesting isn't the "analysis", but how the talking points have changed. If you read between the lines, you can spot that:

>Russian army is larger and more combat experienced than pre-2022.
>Sanctions are failing
>Russian military industry is adapting and producing new equipment
>Russia has advanced air defense systems that are threat to NATO
>Suggests helping Ukraine regain all/most of it's territory (What happened to full liberation of Ukraine?)
>"Whether Ukraine does or does not ultimately join the alliance" (Even NATO membership is no longer a cornerstone)

I thought Russian economy was on the brink of collapse, had the second strongest army in Europe, 430k casualties and 5000 tank losses and were running out of ammo?

 

[Feline Supremacist]

Latest babble from ISW:

What's interesting isn't the "analysis", but how the talking points have changed. If you read between the lines, you can spot that:

>Russian army is larger and more combat experienced than pre-2022.
>Sanctions are failing
>Russian military industry is adapting and producing new equipment
>Russia has advanced air defense systems that are threat to NATO
>Suggests helping Ukraine regain all/most of it's territory (What happened to full liberation of Ukraine?)
>"Whether Ukraine does or does not ultimately join the alliance" (Even NATO membership is no longer a cornerstone)

I thought Russian economy was on the brink of collapse, had the second strongest army in Europe, 430k casualties and 5000 tank losses and were running out of ammo?

You realize that ISW is run by Victoria Nuland's sister-in-law, right? Who doesn't know first thing about war but knows what Vicky wants to hear.

This is meant for politicians and propagandists journos to cite on Face the Nation so they can pompously say "The Institute for the Study of War found X, so that's why we must do Y, Chuck". 99.9% of normies will think ISW is an impartial think tank so they will accept whatever their congressman is selling.

 

[Corn Syrup Connoisseur]

You realize that ISW is run by Victoria Nuland's sister-in-law, right? Who doesn't know first thing about war but knows what Vicky wants to hear.

This is meant for politicians and propagandists journos to cite on Face the Nation so they can pompously say "The Institute for the Study of War found X, so that's why we must do Y, Chuck". 99.9% of normies will think ISW is an impartial think tank so they will accept whatever their congressman is selling.

Yes, my point is the change in their rhetoric.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

Yes, my point is the change in their rhetoric.

Changing the wig and lipstick on a pig might work on the senior citizens of Congress so worth a try, I guess.

 

[bread n circuses]

Latest babble from ISW:

View attachment 5566184View attachment 5566186View attachment 5566187View attachment 5566190View attachment 5566230

What's interesting isn't the "analysis", but how the talking points have changed. If you read between the lines, you can spot that:

>Russian army is larger and more combat experienced than pre-2022.
>Sanctions are failing
>Russian military industry is adapting and producing new equipment
>Russia has advanced air defense systems that are threat to NATO
>Suggests helping Ukraine regain all/most of it's territory (What happened to full liberation of Ukraine?)
>"Whether Ukraine does or does not ultimately join the alliance" (Even NATO membership is no longer a cornerstone)

I thought Russian economy was on the brink of collapse, had the second strongest army in Europe, 430k casualties and 5000 tank losses and were running out of ammo?

The most interesting part is the ISW’s full-on admission that Russia emerging victorious in the war, no matter how much money and arms the west has funnelled to Ukraine, is bad for the United States and bolsters Russia.

Really makes you question the geopolitical intelligence of the American empire. It shovelled hundreds of billions into a war that will yield very few positives, and that has eroded the perception of American geopolitical hegemony. Russia’s economy, army, and political leadership appear to not only have survived the conflict with America, they’ve been strengthened. We heard a lot of “America is wearing down Russia” from the weirdos who cheerlead for NATO earlier on. How bitter and empty those words are now.

 

[Strix454]

ISW has generally given up covering the military side of the war. At least in their daily updates on their website. The daily updates are full of Russian political analysis, and coverage of the politics of pro-Russian sources on the war. But not much of anything about the actual fighting of the war.

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

The President has the power to make treaties with the advice and consent of the Senate as long as two-thirds of the Senators present concur. That's already in the Constitution. It's literal virtue signalling.

NATO is also a military alliance and the President is Commander in Chief.

 

[♦️ King of Diamonds ♦️]

When Russia inevitably wins, I want countries like Best Korea and Iran to take very careful note:

Any country fucking idiotic enough to completely surrender their entire arsenal of nuclear weapons under the pinky-swear assumption the United States would bail them out save the day- frankly, *deserves* to be invaded and levelled to the ground on par with the Mongol invasion of Khwarazmia.

 

[ConsentAccidentVictimNo98]

When Russia inevitably wins

Russia won't win, Ukraine will live on in our hearts and thus they failed in conquering Ukraine. - Idk NATO or Zelensky in his villas after having a bath full of cocaine.

 

[Kane Lives]

The most interesting part is the ISW’s full-on admission that Russia emerging victorious in the war, no matter how much money and arms the west has funnelled to Ukraine, is bad for the United States and bolsters Russia.

Really makes you question the geopolitical intelligence of the American empire. It shovelled hundreds of billions into a war that will yield very few positives, and that has eroded the perception of American geopolitical hegemony. Russia’s economy, army, and political leadership appear to not only have survived the conflict with America, they’ve been strengthened. We heard a lot of “America is wearing down Russia” from the weirdos who cheerlead for NATO earlier on. How bitter and empty those words are now.

I been told time and again America is "bleeding Russia dry" on the cheap.

Ameribros, have we been wrong...?