Total Retard War: Lessons of War - Taking the tactics of Honeycomb.io's Field CTO Liz Fong-Jones and making them available to everyone.

[ye's Official KF Burner]

Byuu has to be dealt with carefully. While our investigations have gotten CLOSE to showing he's alive... we haven't seen his face since. Which is the FIRST thing they would tell us. And for that we have no response. If we could get a photo, hell a recent audio recording post suicide, that probably would be enough to dispell the myth. Otherwise we're fighting shadows

Most gamers do not give a flying fuck about the shitshow that is backroom emulator spergery and Byuu's thread has done its damndest to disprove every goddamn lie about Byuu's suicide.

Whilst I personally think that whether or not Byuu is alive is irrelevant to the question of KF's guilt in the court of public opinion I can't put the autistic blinders up on this one. If we want to continue with the focus on individual liberty and liability KF represents, this site simply cannot be blamed at all for Byuu's life choices, but at the end of the day normies probably won't care. Byuu's still fucking out there. Internet furries pull shit like this all the time. Fucking Albert Temple was pretending to be his own entire friendgroup and girlfriend for 20 fucking years, and that only came out after he actually passed away. Edit: There is no definitive proof of Byuu's death, and any claims that disagree have been thoroughly blown the fuck out. Going by standard internet furry behavior, disappearing digitally after taking some brand image damage is not out of the ordinary, and Byuu is only ordinary in that regard.

I will BEGIN to prepare something, but it will be low priority. Unless rapid significant progress is made in finding his face, the best I can do is prepare a rebuttal. I can't give in good conscience a bold statement that he's alive, because while i think he is, there is a chance he isn't. The best we can get to currently is making the situation look inconclusive


Calm your tism. I told @Markass the Worst id look into it. Hes a friend so i will. But until a body is found, it looks fucking horrendous.

I think it's interesting that Kiwis are more dedicated to doing a welfare check on Byuu than these gamers and "friends" of his. Just taking it at face value and not wanting to dive deeper. Nobody organizing a funeral for him or any records of services held anywhere in his name. For all these friends Byuu apparently has, they sure are the worst kind of people.

 

[AnotherPleb]

You can't sell KF on its content, but the concept. Most people will never support what we do or how we do it. The question we should be forcing to the front of the discussion is, "Do you support political activists using corporate monopolies to control what information can and can't be shared on the internet?"

You could even take the angle that a blue state AG is refusing to enforce laws when cyber crimes are being committed against a politically inconvenient victim. Right wing populists are eating that shit up right now. It honestly wouldn't surprise me to find out Bob Ferguson has received money from groups associated with Schwab or Soros, and those make hot headlines right now.

Neither side of the spectrum wants to stop the censorship because they want to be the ones in control of it.

The monopoly thing is very appealing to a mainstream audience - just right now there's talk about a merger between two big entertainment companies on Xitter and everyone's mad. I think the idea of Cogent controlling the internet and abusing power would break through in a way that maybe nothing else has.

The internet is still very intangible for a lot of people and that's another issue.

Political neutrality isn't that useful right now since there's no political incentive for anyone to stick their neck out for us.

This is the crux of it, and taking a side would open up larger issues. The media already sees the Farms as a right-wing hellhole but sifing with the right wing only means that you then get the fucking Feds up Null's ass. Opening the site to be run by tranny jannies would destroy the site from the inside too.

I think it's interesting that Kiwis are more dedicated to doing a welfare check on Byuu than these gamers and "friends" of his. Just taking it at face value and not wanting to dive deeper. Nobody organizing a funeral for him or any records of services held anywhere in his name. For all these friends Byuu apparently has, they sure are the worst kind of people.

I wouldn't be shocked if a core group of his friends know.

 

[WelperHelper99]

Why do we have to prove that he's alive? Stating the fact that they have zero proof of his suicide should be enough to dispell any doubts. They made the allegation, so they have the burden of proof.

Because we are the internet's nigger. Don't like it, too bad bud. I don't make the rules.

 

[Markass the Worst]

Byuu has to be dealt with carefully. While our investigations have gotten CLOSE to showing he's alive... we haven't seen his face since. Which is the FIRST thing they would tell us. And for that we have no response. If we could get a photo, hell a recent audio recording post suicide, that probably would be enough to dispell the myth. Otherwise we're fighting shadows

As others have said, the burden of proof is on those making the claim of death (as it should be), and I've done all I can to show that it's bullshit. Anything more would require actually travelling to Tokyo (or Ohio) to take a picture of him, and good luck with that.

Nobody organizing a funeral for him or any records of services held anywhere in his name. For all these friends Byuu apparently has, they sure are the worst kind of people.

Actually, Hector claims that his employers held a funerary for him in Japan. Why? Dunno. That also very likely contradicts Derrick Sobodash's claims that his husband (Patrick) had to pay for a funerary in America.

 

[Null]

re: debunking allegations, I would strongly suggest linking Destiny's keffals manifesto. Destiny is completely neutral (if anything anti-kf) and his writeup is exemplary.

Keffals: A Case Study on Internet Terrorism and Mass Media Manipulation

Keffals: A Case Study on Internet Terrorism and Mass Media Manipulation For the last six years, progressives and conservatives have waged vicious war with one another across cyberspace. With cultural, political, and advertiser pressure bearing down on these social media platforms, conservatives...

destinygg.substack.com

 

[JoshPlz]

Because we are the internet's nigger. Don't like it, too bad bud. I don't make the rules.

If people are so fanatic that they are willing to believe in allegations without any kind of credible proof, there is no chance to convince them otherwise anyways. You could have a live interview with byuu and they'd still claim that it's fake and he killed himself.

The only people you can hope to convince are those who don't know just how unfounded and obviously fabricated the allegations actually are.

 

[WelperHelper99]

others have said, the burden of proof is on those making the claim of death (as it should be), and I've done all I can to show that it's bullshit. Anything more would require actually travelling to Tokyo (or Ohio) to take a picture of him, and good luck with that

I know you guys have done hard work. I'm proud of you. We are not at liberty to have innocent until proven guilty. This is a media war. And we have a lot of ground to cover. Are we SURE we don't have a Kiwi in Ohio? I'm serious

re: debunking allegations, I would strongly suggest linking Destiny's keffals manifesto. Destiny is completely neutral (if anything anti-kf) and his writeup is exemplary.

Keffals: A Case Study on Internet Terrorism and Mass Media Manipulation

Keffals: A Case Study on Internet Terrorism and Mass Media Manipulation For the last six years, progressives and conservatives have waged vicious war with one another across cyberspace. With cultural, political, and advertiser pressure bearing down on these social media platforms, conservatives...

destinygg.substack.com

I'll take a look. It's just not going to be clean. Best I can do is make it probable hes alive. For that I apologize

 

[Null]

You don't have to debunk it. If you're going to dedicate a section to Kiwi Farms rumors you can clearly outline it was a bizarre extortion attempt under extremely suspicious circumstances.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

I think it's interesting that Kiwis are more dedicated to doing a welfare check on Byuu than these gamers and "friends" of his. Just taking it at face value and not wanting to dive deeper. Nobody organizing a funeral for him or any records of services held anywhere in his name. For all these friends Byuu apparently has, they sure are the worst kind of people.

the same could be said for julie terryberry or chloe segal as well. the people who supposedly killed themselves because of kiwifarms harassment all have something in common. nobody seemed to give a single fuck about them until they were dead.

chloe was allowed to get so bad that she willingly set herself on fire because nobody cared enough to try and help her and julie was in an abusive controlling relationship which was to a point that even she herself said she was going to kill herself if her bf broke up with her but nobody cared and then she died and all of a sudden it was kiwifarms that pushed her to do it.

byuu as well was being harassed on various emulation forums long before anyone here knew he existed. this is not some guy who was all alone either byuu supposedly had a husband and yet that husband seems to have never once spoken out. these so called victims of kiwifarms are not so much victims of kiwifarms as much as they are victims of society.

they are all people that everyone turned a blind eye to either because they were too annoying to deal with or mentally too far gone. you cannot blame one single place for any of these peoples deaths and trying to do so is honestly not only disrespectful to the dead but also disrespectful to those who are suffering currently as well.

overall i think it could be worth doing some form of simplistic rundown and debunking of things we are accused of but done in such a way that it does not come off defensive but more so empathetic.

we do not want to start fights but more so shine light on things that have been pushed into the dark. that is something i think people like LFJ fear from sites like this. he knows if we put in enough effort we can shine light on things people like him desire to stay hidden.

 

[Null]

there's that one person who was literally calling into Trans LifeLine and complaining about operators not answering, hanging up, etc. Their last words said something like "I don't want to live in a world with Donald Trump and Kiwi Farms", they had ZERO content on the forum until after their death, their transgender romantic partner said they did NOT want this death used as a political tool, but Nina and Greta (charity defrauders) did try anyways and blocked the widow on Facebook.

It's a really fucked up story and they STILL use it.

They constantly say "kiwi farms has a KILL COUNTER" but the only one counting bodies is these fucking parasite scumfuck journo retards.

 

[Markass the Worst]

byuu as well was being harassed on various emulation forums long before anyone here knew he existed.

Not really. This claim comes from logs of TwinAphex (Retroarch guy) talking shit about Byuu in his own chat room that somebody anonymously posted on Retroarchleaks, which is not harassment.

this is not some guy who was all alone either byuu supposedly had a husband and yet that husband seems to have never once spoken out.

He seems to have just up and left his husband in America. If Sobodash is to be believed, his husband basically had no idea where he was since he moved to Japan in 2018 and he had to help him retrace Byuu's steps for the past 3 years.

 

[Chaplainsama]

there's that one person

Chloe Sagal?
Whats even more infuriating is that in his final manifesto, he didn't even blame the goddamn farms. He blamed his own support circle and the organizations he tried to reach out to, not the website that was merely watching his twitter feed.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

If people are so fanatic that they are willing to believe in allegations without any kind of credible proof, there is no chance to convince them otherwise anyways. You could have a live interview with byuu and they'd still claim that it's fake and he killed himself.

The only people you can hope to convince are those who don't know just how unfounded and obviously fabricated the allegations actually are.

i think there are some people out there who might change their mind if presented with new info that is easy enough to digest. the way things are presented really seems to matter more than it should sometimes.

 

[Null]

Chloe Sagal?

No. I forget, this was a long time ago, but anyone involved in TLL will remember.

 

[Markass the Worst]

Chloe Sagal?

No, Elizabeth Waite.

Elizabeth Waite committed suicide by overdose on November 23, 2016. In their suicide note, they explicitly blame the Kiwi Farms for their death, but Waite did not have a thread (or any posts about them on the site) until after they had died.

When Trans LifeLine's executives (the associates of Liz Fong-Jones who were removed for inurement) tried to blame the Kiwi Farms for their death, Waite's own spouse protested the blatant exploitation. Waite's suicide note had blamed Kiwi Farms and Donald Trump in the same sentence. The widow claimed they were generally unwell, was a frequent caller to Trans LifeLine, and that TLL often did not have operators available or had operators that would hang up on them.

Trans LifeLine refused to stop using Elizabeth Waite as a token against the Kiwi Farms and blocked their spouse on social media. Vice News reached out to the widow for ammunition against the Kiwi Farms, who shot them down for being predatory scum.

from the OP of #DropKiwiFarms

 

[WelperHelper99]

You don't have to debunk it. If you're going to dedicate a section to Kiwi Farms rumors you can clearly outline it was a bizarre extortion attempt under extremely suspicious circumstances.

If that's your call I'll do it. I did read what you linked from destiny. If we keep that general theme showing that it was extremely strange how everything went down like how Destiny did it, it wont prove hes alive, but it will show that his death is highly uncertain. I can do that much.

 

[BMO_]

I want to be honest here: I think that gayop idea about improving public image of Kiwi Farms is optimistic at best and autistic at worst.
Anti-farmers can just begin a witch hunt on all youtubers who DARE to namedrop the forum, let alone call it "good". This would make "outsiders" scared of the forum, while also making "insiders" extremely vulnerable to "calling out".

 

[Null]

I want to be honest here: I think that gayop idea about improving public image of Kiwi Farms is optimistic at best and autistic at worst.
Anti-farmers can just begin a witch hunt on all youtubers who DARE to namedrop the forum, let alone call it "good". This would make "outsiders" scared of the forum, while also making "insiders" extremely vulnerable to "calling out".

Well, at this point, you miss every shot you don't take.

My main point is I can't spare any time to really help it but if @CrunkLord420 wants to put time in getting Hugo templating up, I can get it online and shill it and help with any questions. If the community really wants to help collectively, this is a pretty accessible way to do it.

 

[thrownaway4chan]

Improving the sites reputation would require a miracle or significant changes to the site.

Most of the people who are documented in threads are not zoosadists or child molesters. Null isn't going ban all other threads and only allow discussion of them. And that's part of why people will hate the site. The people who killed themselves weren't zoosadists. Byuu isn't the only thing people are angry at the kiwifarms for. Even if you prove byuus alive people are going to say "they faked their death out of fear".


They can still point to any number of other things on the site that they dislike. If you ask why people dislike the site, they'll say something like this: "Kiwifarms is a stalking site. They doxx and harass trans and disabled peoplefor fun."

People hate doxxing. They don't think doxxing is necessary in order to discuss lolcows. They think you violate people's privacy. They don't like that you can post real names, phone numbers and addresses. Sure those are technically public info and it's legal most places, but that's not all.


You'll have to justify why Null is ok with people posting things like Social Security Numbers, Credit Card Numbers, and Passwords. You'll have to justify why stolen nudes and 'revenge porn' are "leaks in the public interest" and fine to post. Stuff that is potentially illegal. That's a much harder sell.
Some of these topics like The SSN leaks have been mentioned in mainstream publications:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/09/03/kiwifarms-website-offline/

Doxxing being allowed and encouraged is fundamentally tied to why kiwifarms is portrayed in the mainstream as a harassment forum. People who say "we ban pooptouchers" will be seen as lying or deluded. You'll have to answer questions such as: "Why do you need their info if you don't want to contact them?" And I don't know how well the rules against cowtipping are actually enforced. There's examples of people committing crimes and not getting banned.

 

[Chaplainsama]

No.

No, Elizabeth Waite.

I'm sorry the deepest lore is consumed by the dementia sometimes
Still both are good examples of KF not doing jack or shit to anybody but still being treated as literal murderers. Its... a shame that everything about these stories is so complex. But it just hammers home the point that non-autistic eyes need to be illuminated to the truth of these matters.

I want to be honest here: I think that gayop idea about improving public image of Kiwi Farms is optimistic at best and autistic at worst.
Anti-farmers can just begin a witch hunt on all youtubers who DARE to namedrop the forum, let alone call it "good". This would make "outsiders" scared of the forum, while also making "insiders" extremely vulnerable to "calling out".

If people in the internet normiesphere like Turkey Tom can openly source this site without being branded as literally hitler there is no reason not to at least try to add to the chorus. You can't win hearts and minds if people don't actually know you.