Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

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I posted a short time ago about what you guys thought were important ideas for a dnd table

etc.
Don't forget some variant of "the DM is always right;" Be ready for what happens when you come at an impasse with the rules. "Learn your Character Sheet" is important—I'd go a step further and mandate paper sheets since a player may be more inclined to remember what their character does if they don't just fill it by hitting "level up" on DnDBeyond. I'd also suggest adding "Advance the story" to RP etiquette, since I've seen dumb motherfuckers ruin sessions with their faffing about.

"No Metagaming" should be defined. I've had autist DMs insist that planning a turn out-of-character with other players or not walking into a trap that others already have was metagaming (it is by definition, but I'd say it's not a bad thing). If we know we're fighting a vampire, do we need to know 'in character' that we need a stake and garlic, etc
 
Alright! Thanks dudes. So none of these to remove, or any new points to add?

I will write them out a little more clearly for sure yes! Thanks :)
 
  • No metagaming
  • No cheating
  • No attacking or killing player characters or NPCs for no reason
  • Come to play on time, stay until the end, try and not skip sessions or - at least - give advanced notice when you cannot make it
  • Internet switched off during game time.
  • Bring snacks and a bit extra, to share with others
  • Death of a character is in fact, switched on
  • This is a team game, we play as a team game
  • Take notes
  • Learn your character sheet
  • Pay attention in combat/prepare the turn
  • Never confuse the player for the character
  • Rp, share the spotlight, rule of improv is that to make other people look good, is to also make yourself look good
  • Write a backstory, have a 3x3 and knives

No Metagaming - unless you are doing a full, gay Vampire LARP, players are going to metagame, the DM is going to metagame. Leading with this rule that's going to be broken is going to weaken the rest. (I'd lead with the "This is a team sport"). You need to clarify it should be minimized and not ruin the game or be used to replace roleplay; I'd just put that as a "No metagaming to min-max" or equivalent.
Someone I know had a "Don't use numbers unless your character would know them" rule. (I.e. Saying "I have 20 HP left!" is very naughty, saying "Oh god I'm bleeding well over a healing word's amount!" is fine.)

No Cheating - players are only cheating themselves, but I'd explain why no cheating.

No PvP - sounds fine

Be on time - I'd clarify that people should expect to be at the table ready to roll dice at the start time; not walking in the shop, not sitting down and opening their bag, that's the time you're supposed to be ready, and I'd clarify what that costs them.

No Internet - I'd clarify that people are there to game not play on their phones. Mention that it is rude, as that doesn't dawn on a lot of people.

Bring Snacks to share -

Character death - I'd reorder it with more of gaming consequences. I wouldn't try to get cute or clever, I'd just say "Characters may die. It might be unfair. No tantrums when it happens."

Team game: as mentioend I'd move this up, but I'd clarify something about "This is a team game. You are expected to work together."

Take Notes: They won't listen but ok. I'd emphasize this and spell out consequences for no notes, even if its "you'll be confused and not have much fun"

Rest looks ok. I'm not sure what knives means, but I looked at what a 3x3 is and if its the "Mood board" grid, that shit is hella gay.
 
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I've had autist DMs insist that planning a turn out-of-character with other players or not walking into a trap that others already have was metagaming (it is by definition, but I'd say it's not a bad thing).
There was rarely an opportunity for this, but I'd generally deal with it by having the player actually sit out (or leave if just sitting there would be boring) if they died separate from the party in a way that they were likely to encounter it themselves. I had to do this at most three times in years. The most obvious was that statue teleporter in Tomb of Horrors that teleports you out the mouth of another statue and if you try to get back by climbing back in there's a Sphere of Annihilation in it.
 
So I'm surprised at the "this won't work but ok" replies for many folks. I was not willing to poke at this, since dudes that replied took a minute of your time and I appreciate it (really, no being gay but like time is expensive for real thanks), but now that a few people have said words to the effect of "good luck with that" I am surprised. Inclined to ask "why?" Games I have been in I take tons of notes, on names and items mostly, but also what we've done or just in general, what is interesting at the session, for crying out loud - sometimes I just take notes because I'm BORED! My fellow players in our home game we play take notes too, onemore than me, but the others take notes on their items and some other game things at least On no phones, all but one of the new players at the game store took this to heart from day one, so 5 out of 6 success rate with these guys (and I plan to be more annoying about it if player 6 gets in the soon to start game). I may be experiencing something as a result of my attitude, I am not particularly polite and so if I don't like something I see I will call it out: I even told the game store manager "once we're done with the ones hots I'm going to pick the people I gell with, because I'm the DM" People I don't get along with, I don't spend hours of m day with, people in my games take notes stay off their phones and so forth. If they do not, we have a conversation and see where we have a common goal and hopefully work toward it. If there are people who can't get along with the rest of the party even after talking to him or her, we fond a different person for our group. Are you saying this has not been a normal experience at all for other people? I would like to know, and am very curious.

(Edit: trying to clarify ;) )
 
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So I'm surprised at the "this won't work but ok" replies for many folks. I was not willing to poke at this, since dudes that replied took a minute of your time and I appreciate it (really, no being gay but like time is expensive for real thanks), but now that a few people have said words to the effect of "good luck with that" I am surprised. Inclined to ask "why?" Games I have been in I take tons of notes, on names and items mostly, but also what we've done or just in general, what is interesting at the session, for crying out loud - sometimes I just take notes because I'm BORED! My fellow players in our home game we play take notes too, onemore than me, but the others take notes on their items and some other game things at least On no phones, all but one of the new players at the game store took this to heart from day one, so 5 out of 6 success rate with these guys (and I plan to be more annoying about it if player 6 gets in the soon to start game). I may be experiencing something as a result of my attitude, I am not particularly polite and so if I don't like something I see I will call it out: I even told the game store manager "once we're done with the ones hots I'm going to pick the people I gell with, because I'm the DM" People I don't get along with, I don't spend hours of m day with, people in my games take notes stay off their phones and so forth. If they do not, we have a conversation and see where we have a common goal and hopefully work toward it. If there are people who can't get along with the rest of the party even after talking to him or her, we fond a different person for our group. Are you saying this has not been a normal experience at all for other people? I would like to know, and am very curious.

(Edit: trying to clarify ;) )
IMO, there are things you lay down as rules, and there are things you encourage on people as part of group culture and personal habits.

Taking notes is one of these latter things, for example. Rules work better when they're telling people what not to do. Group and personal habits are better for when you're trying to push people to actively do something. "Don't be late!" is a good rule. "Be a teamplayer" works better as a group attitude. The fewer and the clearer the rules, the better. Everything else can be taught along the way or described when introducing a new player to the group. Maybe have a separate "best habits" or "here's how we do things in this town" section after the rules.
 
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The RPG market lives and dies with D&D. I read somewhere that Paizo is actually making more money than they were when Pathfinder was briefly more popular than D&D because of how much 5e grew the RPG market.
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I sometimes question 5E growth. Are all the people buying D&D 5E products even playing the game or do they collect gaming miniatures and books as collectibles like Funko pop figures? I have a feeling that a critical role might suspect this. DaggerHeart, which I have heard, sounds like a hybrid of 4E and 5E. It's simplified and MMORPG-like but as streamlined as 5E at the same time. Maybe a little world of darkness storytelling system is thrown in.
 
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I sometimes question 5E growth. Are all the people buying D&D 5E products even playing the game or do they collect gaming miniatures and books as collectibles like Funko pop figures? I have a feeling that a critical role might suspect this. DaggerHeart, which I have heard, sounds like a hybrid of 4E and 5E. It's simplified and MMORPG-like but as streamlined as 5E at the same time. Maybe a little world of darkness storytelling system is thrown in.

The 5e Player's Handbook is #1 in Puzzle & Game Reference on Amazon, #4 in all puzzle & game, and #7 in all reference books. The global tabletop game market is about $1.5 billion, and the last time I looked, over half of that was D&D, so it's doing in the neighborhood of $700m-$800m every year. As of 2021, the last time they published numbers, over half of games on Roll20 were 5e, as are over half the players. You don't sell $100m+ of product if nobody's using it. They're moving millions of books every year, when any other publisher rejoices if they move ten thousand. Any argument that those millions of books aren't ever actually getting used, that somehow, the records 5e has smashed don't actually mean it's more popular than some obscure GURPS clone is pure cope.

I haven't run 5e in two years, so I'm not shilling the system. This is just the reality of the business right now.
 
So I'm surprised at the "this won't work but ok" replies for many folks. I was not willing to poke at this, since dudes that replied took a minute of your time and I appreciate it (really, no being gay but like time is expensive for real thanks), but now that a few people have said words to the effect of "good luck with that" I am surprised. Inclined to ask "why?" Games I have been in I take tons of notes, on names and items mostly, but also what we've done or just in general, what is interesting at the session, for crying out loud - sometimes I just take notes because I'm BORED! My fellow players in our home game we play take notes too, onemore than me, but the others take notes on their items and some other game things at least On no phones, all but one of the new players at the game store took this to heart from day one, so 5 out of 6 success rate with these guys (and I plan to be more annoying about it if player 6 gets in the soon to start game). I may be experiencing something as a result of my attitude, I am not particularly polite and so if I don't like something I see I will call it out: I even told the game store manager "once we're done with the ones hots I'm going to pick the people I gell with, because I'm the DM" People I don't get along with, I don't spend hours of m day with, people in my games take notes stay off their phones and so forth. If they do not, we have a conversation and see where we have a common goal and hopefully work toward it. If there are people who can't get along with the rest of the party even after talking to him or her, we fond a different person for our group. Are you saying this has not been a normal experience at all for other people? I would like to know, and am very curious.

(Edit: trying to clarify ;) )
I tell every one when I start a game
"You really should take notes. You're going to be expected to have some recall of past events to understand what's going on, and you're going to be sad if you don't know what's going on, because it'll be expected your characters have passing knowledge of evets." and usually think to myself "You slow-ass mothers fuckers also like to dawdle, wander off, and fuck around so by the time you complete a quest it'll be llike 3 years later"
I tell them, as you noted, that its a good thing to do keep engaged. Even you just draw doodles, I've had players who did at least put down some words but mostly doodled but they actually remembered "oh yeah that's why I drew this guy, so that means this happened before X and after Y..."

Once I even bought everyone cheap notebooks and decent pens so they'd have no excuses. They went un-used.

Another couple of groups I event sent everyone a post-session write up of my own notes so they could just go into their email and search for things.

One of my players took very detailed notes like she always took since school.
One of my players took did at least key word scribbles in a vague timeline and (at the urging of first player) put a sheath of post-its on their character sheet with whatever current thing they were working at.
One of my players took zero notes, but had a decent memory and really just there to play tactical games, so went along with the plot without much fuss.
And two of players took zero notes and especially one of them would bitch in at least 50% of the sessions about not knowing who or what something was, or would do something stupid that they'd been warned earlier was stupid, and when I let it happen and delivered the anticipated consequences of a thing they were forewarned about, they would lose their shit.


And just be clear on notes I'm not douchebag - I'll help them out if they get close. If they are like "Oh shit they have Ravens on their banner, its the troops of that King guy...the dude with the wooden hand" - as long as they're in the general ballpark I'll give it to them.
but getting players to take notes is like collecting Hen's teeth.

IMO, there are things you lay down as rules, and there are things you encourage on people as part of group culture and personal habits.
To add to this:
What people often forget is a body of law isn't just rules, its also the consequences of not following them - and in may lay & volunteer association organizations usually some context on why that rule exists. Some times that consequence is spelled out directly, sometimes its just "God will be angry".


Example, one thing I've heard someone else did was the Gaming Table equivalent of a swear jar.
On your phone? Dollar in the swear jar.
Not ready on your turn? Dollar in the swear jar.
Need the DM to tell you a thing you forgot? Dollar in the swear jar as you get explained.
Try-hard metagaming? Thorgar doesn't know what a gelatinous cube is yet, Dollar in the swear jar.
Didn't show up on time? $5 in the swear jar.
Everyone tired of being your murderhobo tard wrangler? Knock it off and put a couple bucks in the swear jar.

Swear jar money is used for pizza/soda/snacks so people usually don't take it too personal when they are fined.
 
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On the subject of notetaking by the party, a habit I learned from a different DM years ago is to start the session by asking one player at random to give me a recap of last session. Nothing in depth and no penalty for not remembering things, but it does put them on the spot. This shows me what the party remembered, and allows me to make a correction if they remembered something wrong..
 
One of my players took very detailed notes like she always took since school.
I've got a player who takes notes like a goddamned secretary for board meetings. It's wild. She does these great write ups after too. Really makes you feel good and I hope it embarrasses the other PCs who can barely be bothered to remember their fucking backgrounds.
 
Clearly D&D is the biggest force in TTRPGs, yeah. Anyone trying to well akshually it is coming from a place of just hating the fuck out of WotC or D&D. That said, I do believe that only a fraction of the shit they're selling is going to people who are consistently gaming; I think for every one person who has a group and a regular game, you have at least two or three people who bought the player's handbook after watching critical role or stranger things, tried it once, then gave up and left it to gather dust on a shelf. I actually found a 5e DMG laying in a parking lot back a few years ago, it's still the only 5e book I have.

But even granting that there's a lot of wannabees around D&D who just dabbled and gave up, the remaining numbers still outpace everyone else. Especially if you consider the fact that Pathfinder is just D&D that's been swiped by another company with a slightly different coat of paint on it, since in any metric I've seen, Pathfinder is always second place. If you combine those two, they outsize everything else in the market combined by several times over. Wizards is working hard to torpedo their own product by forcing people into the online subscription model, stranger things has lost its popularity and critical role's already abandoned them to hawk their own shitty system, so it remains to be seen what happens to the market at that point without all the crutches they've had for the last few years, but D&D has a ton of brand recognition to coast on.
 
Have you ever tried a shot clock? Like, when you turn rolls around you have X seconds to decide on what to do or your turn gets skipped.
Instead of skipping the turn I'd just use the swear jar for it. I'm pretty sure we'd get a whole pizza every session out of one our players like that.
 
I do believe that only a fraction of the shit they're selling is going to people who are consistently gaming; I think for every one person who has a group and a regular game, you have at least two or three people who bought the player's handbook after watching critical role or stranger things, tried it once, then gave up and left it to gather dust on a shelf.
I doubt they even tried it once. Most RPG people and board gamers I know buy shit tons of stuff they never ever play. Even Spoony has a wall of books he's never played.

One of my pet peeves with RPGs is all these different rule systems, but pretty much every group has 5e and a house game (usually CoC or PathFinder) and play nothing else.
 
Luckily there's 2d4chan, a read only backup of 1d4chan
Thank you.

Unrelated: seems I won't have a group to play pf2e regularly with since the best we can do is play only sometimes on saturdays. Guess I will have to go back to the ol' reliable VTTs.
Speaking of pf2e I have noticed how a lot of the "guides" are just people reading the class features and feats, and since there are so many of the latter, the videos end up being hour long slogs then I stumbled upon a channel which managed to explain classes (and its archetypes) in under 10 minutes, sure is not sure in-depth but at the very least I now have an idea of what to expect from an investigator or the different types of alchemist.
 
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