Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

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they can tell a photoshop "because of the pixels".

AND by having seen quite a few shops in my time.

You could tell by pixels if something was poorly shopped. if you zoomed in on the shoop you could see either miss-sized artifacting or pixels still having color from what used to be neighboring pixels
 
For me the big problem with the witch hunt is when real artists get thrown under the bus because some sperg thought their art was AI when it wasn't. They don't back down, they just tell them to get a new art style, or deny that the art is real even if evidence is provided.

It's even funnier when anti-AI people post good AI art as real art, even if the tags on the original page clearly say it's AI. Or when they post that image of an aircraft with red dots all over it (survivor bias) as a gotcha, instead of applying that logic to their own beliefs.

It used to be called The Toupee Fallacy. People claimed they could always tell if someone is wearing a toupee, but the fact is they can only spot bad toupees. Good ones go unnoticed, and times they get it wrong are dismissed as outliers. It reminds me a lot of those people back in the day that would say they can tell a photoshop "because of the pixels".
Something else I've seen a lot of is when anti-AI people share something AI by mistake, then someone informs them it's AI, and then their love of the piece immediately vanishes. Like, bruh, nothing about it has changed, you clearly enjoyed it enough to share, so what does it matter where it came from? If it pleases you, then that's all that matters, much like how you shouldn't let a bad fanbase ruin your enjoyment of an entertainment property.

It's also amusing when their criticisms are tremendously out of date. "AI can't do hands" is a big one, never mind that there are plenty of models that do them just fine, and even if you get a wonky hand, inpainting or manual touchups will take care of it. Lazy AI art is still pretty easy to spot, but the people that actually take the time to learn promptcrafting, inpainting, control nets, and other tricks of the trade can produce some really fantastic stuff. But really, that's no different from a teenager stumbling through their first attempts at drawing anime characters and a master artist who's spent hundreds of hours learning their craft. Of course it's easier to tell that something was made by a rookie.
 
I don't like AI out of principle. If corporations can create even more content with even less effort and even less expense in order to maximize their profits, we're going to be under an even more intense deluge of shit than we are right now.

AI is great for democratizing production, sure. If some guy without cash to hire an artist is retouching AI art so his module/basic book isn't coming out as just bare text, more power to him. He's using it to add value to a product. But just like I don't care for news websites putting out 20+ articles a day, all clearly machine-written and only barely edited by an underpaid human intern to remove the most glaring inconsistencies, I don't care for publishing houses flooding the market with shit literally machine-made to be thoughtlessly consumed by people who see RPGs as a "lifestyle" instead of a hobby.

All that said, I'm not going to be going "AI, reeeeeeeeeeeeee--". I got better things to do. I've written books and commissioned artists before, and I fully intend to keep doing both.
 
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If corporations can create even more content with even less effort and even less expense in order to maximize their profits, we're going to be under an even more intense deluge of shit than we are right now.
This is already happening for those in the know with public domain art. People like Jim Sterling lose their shit about asset flips, and rightly so, but they completely fail to notice stock textures and sound effects in even AAA games. I noticed some stock sound effects used in many games and films long ago, but now I'm a dev I'll be playing something like Resident Evil 4 HD and notice a stock wood texture. "Oh, that's just wood_04 from this free 2k texture pack. They didn't even try to hide it.".

There's even a fascinating autistic fascinating subset of this called Texture Archeology where people go back the games from before high speed internet and try to source the textures.


I don't care for publishing houses flooding the market with shit literally machine-made
I didn't know that was a thing. I thought publishing houses were inundated with stories at the best of times. It's why writing is such a hard career to break into. Why would they publish AI written books when there's countless people trying to get published but can't?
 
I know more about textures than I want to know about textures due to having a genius idea for a setting or dungeon then spending 5 hours trying to find something I can steal for a MapTools texture.
 
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This is already happening for those in the know with public domain art. People like Jim Sterling lose their shit about asset flips, and rightly so, but they completely fail to notice stock textures and sound effects in even AAA games. I noticed some stock sound effects used in many games and films long ago, but now I'm a dev I'll be playing something like Resident Evil 4 HD and notice a stock wood texture. "Oh, that's just wood_04 from this free 2k texture pack. They didn't even try to hide it.".

There's even a fascinating autistic fascinating subset of this called Texture Archeology where people go back the games from before high speed internet and try to source the textures.
Oh, yeah. That shit is amazing. And in fairness at least with audio some studios can do good work with stock effects.


Who'd have thought a scream that's been embedded into so many salty Souls players' forebrains came out of a silly little audio library?

I didn't know that was a thing. I thought publishing houses were inundated with stories at the best of times. It's why writing is such a hard career to break into. Why would they publish AI written books when there's countless people trying to get published but can't?
Note: This is just personal experience from my attempt at getting published many years ago (I ended up self-publishing, then hopped onto Amazon when they started their own self-publishing business), backed by talking to other authors since.

They haven't started doing it yet, at least not that I know. There are people selling AI-written stories (usually short stories from what I gather) on Amazon and making a quick buck off uninformed idiots or people checking in for the meme, but it's a pretty small niche right now. AI is much, much better at short-form content like "news" articles.

Anyway, the problem for the publishing world isn't that 99% of the submissions they receive are shit. They're fine with shit. They publish shit all the time, because shit sells. The problem for them is going through all that shit and trying to find the shit that they think will sell. Because writers are humans, and even when a dozen aspiring writers are typing away trying to write the same flavor-of-the-month story that rides the coattails of the last obscure-turned-viral award-winning story that propelled a bored housewife with unresolved fetishes into millionairedom, they're probably all going to go about it in different ways.

So, it falls to the editors to go through all that shit and fish out the bits that they think will sell. Because the companies are generally not interested in good stories, they're interested in sales. If a good story sells, all the better. But it's not the pre-requisite there, at least not for the big guys in the game. They're there to make money, and the less they have to give the author, the better for their own bottomline.

Now, imagine that they then get access to an AI that they can direct to write whatever they want, in a way that's scientifically designed to get mass market appeal. I don't think it's there yet (and even then, you'd need to hire someone skilled at wrangling the AI once it becomes available), but you can bet your bottom dollar the people at the top are salivating at the thought. They're unlikely to get the big blockbusters with this model, but getting 20 chances at success with AI-written stories for the same price as a single human-written story makes the beancounters very happy in their pants.

And for companies like Wizards of the Coast (to wheel this back to tabletop gaming), it just plain allows them to downsize their operations even further. Why keep a roster of writers that can only write 4 supplements a year, when you can keep only a few editors on hand and automate the production of 8 supplements for a fraction of the cost? Is it their prerogative as a private company? Sure. Doesn't mean I have to go along with it. Historically, companies maximizing profits has always resulted in worse results for their customers.

ETA: also, while I'm sure we're still a ways off wholly AI-written novels, there's an idea that I would be surprised if it weren't at least being tested as we speak. Namely, getting the AI to write the premise, characters and beats of a story, and paying a cheap author to hang "meat" onto that narrative skeleton (with the "author" getting credit if the resulting product becomes successful). Or using AI to embellish/pad out dry prose. At the end of the day, it's a tool for reducing workload (and therefore cost). It's possibilities are endless for a company in search of profits.
 
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How much money do you think Hasbro spends on journalists to make Disney movies flopping damage control style articles?
 
They can't. The only reason they're even solvent this year is because of Magic. Without MtG, they'd have probably chapter 11'ed this year, since their toys and games department are doing fucking horribly. Tabletop was an earner, but it's marginal, and it's starting to lose money again.

Mainly because you really only need the SRD to run any edition of DnD from Wizards.
 
They can't. The only reason they're even solvent this year is because of Magic. Without MtG, they'd have probably chapter 11'ed this year, since their toys and games department are doing fucking horribly. Tabletop was an earner, but it's marginal, and it's starting to lose money again.

Mainly because you really only need the SRD to run any edition of DnD from Wizards.

Its not because you only need the SRD to run/play D&D. (you cannot run 4e with its dog-shit SRD which is just a design document)
In fact Wizards learned the Music Industry's Napster lesson - when you make a product people like free and make it easy for people who enjoy the thing you've created to buy things like it or related to it, it makes more money than if you charged for it.
That is, by brining back a playable SRD for 5e, Wizards made more money by making it cost zero dollars to get involved in D&D.
Paizo has their PHB (plus a few supplements) straight up available online, and that only helped them.

Where Wizards/Hasbro has fucked up is almost none of the shit they sell offers any value, because they sent it before a committee of terminally twitter-addicted SJWs.

I bought the D&D Overland Travel DM screen because it was on sale and the art on it is great (and Woketards of the Coast was between fuck ups, having paid the Drancelance folks and not yet fucked up the OGL). I will never use the actual information printed on it and tape my own printouts over it, but its a very nice looking screen and about what you'd want from quality. This is a completely optional spend; I could use notepads or even just nothing, but I like having some fancy dragons and land scapes in front of me when I'm in person so for $10... why not. I've got a fair number of purchases of 3rd party supplements & aids that are sort of the same: there's a couple good ideas and some useful tables, or this does a thing that helps me out even a little. These things offer value.

Or the fact I own the entire OSE original Basic run. All the info is on their website for free (or any other B/X repackages), but I like having physical copies, they weren't overcharging, and the quality is good. So why not support the company if I'm getting some value out of it?

But Woketard's supplements are garbage and at best add a poorly through-through subclass. The Flaming homos Radiant Citadel is a garbage setting with nothing to harvest from the book because it only pushes wokeness and that niggers are oppressed victims. Gay Prom Tranny College is completely worthless, its already forgotten except to mock.

Contrast this with the AD&D DM's guide, where even if you aren't running AD&D there is tons of shit about general game design, probability (since it was written before Math was deemed racist) and adventure set up.
 
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Basically yes, the setting books and add on splats have to be good if you're working on continuing the profits. 5e sure as fuck screwed that up.

Compare to 3.xe, whose added splats that were good either due to the setting or due to new shit being brought into the game probably gave it a few years extra it otherwise wouldn't.
 
Compare to 3.xe, whose added splats that were good either due to the setting or due to new shit being brought into the game probably gave it a few years extra it otherwise wouldn't.

3.5 only had a five-year run, and splat churn is a big part of what killed off the game prematurely. 5e's been going almost a decade, which probably has a lot to do with why WotC feels it's safe to go woke with it. At some point, the retards in charge think a brand just has magical self-sustaining juju, so they think they can ruin its core appeal and still enjoy the same success.
 
I don't like AI out of principle. If corporations can create even more content with even less effort and even less expense in order to maximize their profits, we're going to be under an even more intense deluge of shit than we are right now.
I disagree because corporations have trained actual living humans to generate such utterly soulless shit that even AI content is better.
Basically yes, the setting books and add on splats have to be good if you're working on continuing the profits. 5e sure as fuck screwed that up.
It shouldn't be anything other than obvious but all an RPG needs to be is something people can sit at a table with friends and have fun doing.

How is this lost wisdom? It shouldn't be hard to understand.
 
3.5 only had a five-year run, and splat churn is a big part of what killed off the game prematurely. 5e's been going almost a decade, which probably has a lot to do with why WotC feels it's safe to go woke with it. At some point, the retards in charge think a brand just has magical self-sustaining juju, so they think they can ruin its core appeal and still enjoy the same success.

Also don't forget its not just Woketards anymore. Hasbro has their top corpo minds dedicated to running shit into the ground chasing pennies and markets that will never emerge.

So while Woketards learned their lesson about accessibility from 4e, Hasbro seems to be all set to start the learning from the beginning.

I should also point out the record industry, having gotten a severe lesson pounded down on them painfully, is already starting to unlearn. Hollywood has nearly completely unlearned - partly because they've been making dogshit and forget that if you want to make money from free, people need to like your product.
 
Now, imagine that they then get access to an AI that they can direct to write whatever they want, in a way that's scientifically designed to get mass market appeal. I don't think it's there yet (and even then, you'd need to hire someone skilled at wrangling the AI once it becomes available), but you can bet your bottom dollar the people at the top are salivating at the thought. They're unlikely to get the big blockbusters with this model, but getting 20 chances at success with AI-written stories for the same price as a single human-written story makes the beancounters very happy in their pants.
You could also use an ai to read trough all the schlock and highlight what would be most likely to sell.

Then instead of having an editor read trough the first couple of pages of two hundred books to find something interesting they could read trough the pages of like 10 books.

You could also use an ai to improve low quality prose, have the author read it trough and touch up on it, and then save an editor some time. And the book would sell a lot better because the text flows better.
 
Basically yes, the setting books and add on splats have to be good if you're working on continuing the profits. 5e sure as fuck screwed that up.
I've played 5e for nearly all of its run and I gotta agree, back in 2015-2017 there was hype for each new release since the game was hurting for more content, be it in the form of new monsters or player options. At first it was rough since the tyranny of dragons adventures were a mess, the elemental evil stuff was downgraded from a full option/setting book to an online supplement and lastly the sword coast adventurer's guide was boring with quite a few of its subclasses sucking dick.
Then came 2016 and with it two hits: curse of sthrad and Volo's guide the monsters, the latter of which I still think it is the best 5e book of all time since it has things for both the DM and players on top of fairly interesting monster lore. Next year came xanathar's which brought decent/good subclases and at least made an attempt to make better downtime and crafting rules and shortly after mordekainen's tome of foes which wasn't as great as volo's but not bad either.
Then the controversies started, mearls got shuffled into the back and it was all downhill from there, I recall tasha's being the first player option book I read in a while and I found it downright annoying so I limited myself to simply reading the class features and ignore the quirky flavour text. Subsequent books I hardly bothered with and I was right to do so: they included some really poorly balanced spell which made it evident no one worth a shit worked on those books.

As for the adventures: I never bothered with them, but from what I read online and talk with friends they always had the same damn problem in that they were laid out like shit making them confusing and often the plot or NPC motivations were very weak or poorly thought out. It is really telling when a decade in you haven't improved the technical aspects of your product and it even becomes worse in other aspects.
I should also mention how the early adventures were all remixes of old ones to the point it was a joke to recommend the originals to people asking for adventure recomendations. I get this is a franchise with over 50 years of history so it is normal for them to appeal to nostalgia or reference old stuff yet the inability to make new and original adventures is another issue I have with them.
 
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It's often surprising to people how incredibly fucking stupid executives can be. But it's because businesses go through the same weak men/hard times cycle governments do. When times are good at the company, executives get selected based on their ass-kissing ability, and so you get people who think brands are magic and technology just happens in charge, who then proceed to use the company's core products as their personal shit buckets and then wonder why things went south. It's happened everywhere from Intel to Hasbro.
 
Compare to 3.xe, whose added splats that were good either due to the setting or due to new shit being brought into the game probably gave it a few years extra it otherwise wouldn't.
I just miss established rulesets for dual classing, actual army combat, naval combat, actual crafting, food, downtime, etc.

They learned all the wrong lessons from 4E.
5e's been going almost a decade
Don't forgot a big chunk of that decade was a whole lot of nothing while WOTC went behind the scenes and choked the indie scene to death, especially char gen ones.
 
Don't forgot a big chunk of that decade was a whole lot of nothing while WOTC went behind the scenes and choked the indie scene to death, especially char gen ones.

Independent RPG publishers have been doing better than they have since the d20 gold rush. What WotC has been doing (at least before trying to fuck up the OGL) is enforcing copyright on non-SRD content, which is no different than what they did in the good old days of 3.x.
 
I just miss established rulesets for dual classing, actual army combat, naval combat, actual crafting, food, downtime, etc.

They learned all the wrong lessons from 4E.

Don't forgot a big chunk of that decade was a whole lot of nothing while WOTC went behind the scenes and choked the indie scene to death, especially char gen ones.
I thought indies flocked willingly to 5e because it sold so well they had to be retarded not to make 5e compatible products , plus it also worked as a form of advertisement for their non D&D compatible content.
 
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I thought indies flocked willingly to 5e because it sold so well they had to be retarded not to make 5e compatible products , plus it also worked as a form of advertisement for their non D&D compatible content.
This is from what I assume was post anvil bullshit right when critical roll became popular and neets copied their schtik like arcadum.
Meaning this is after the whole ezpz license shit which is way after the apocalyptic bullshit they pulled with character builders.

Then people figured out if they’re going to make 90% of a system but give wotc half of the profit they might as well do 100% and cut the shit down the coast. Like critical roll.
 
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