Attack on Titan Griefing Thread - >tfw even your VA thinks that you're a loser

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

No, not "most". All of it would be dead because of Eren's actions causing the entire world's ecosystem to collapse. That's the problem.

Nobody in the series even hinted to that as being a possible side-effect, it was not a concern whatsoever. Just because fans estimate it would happen in real life is irrelevant, even regardless of it really would or not, because it's not canon to the story.

The story is "if we don't stop Eren from wiping out the rest of the world we'll have survivor's guilt, which is worse than death", not "if we don't stop Eren it's going to cause the ecosystem to collapse and we're all gonna die".

Now, it might have been better that way (perhaps less interesting because there wouldn't be any Yaegerists, thus no contention in Paradis, just everyone trying to avert the apocalypse), but it wasn't the case.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

Nobody in the series even hinted to that as being a possible side-effect, it was not a concern whatsoever. Just because fans estimate it would happen in real life is irrelevant, even regardless of it really would or not, because it's not canon to the story.

The story is "if we don't stop Eren from wiping out the rest of the world we'll have survivor's guilt, which is worse than death", not "if we don't stop Eren it's going to cause the ecosystem to collapse and we're all gonna die".

Now, it might have been better that way (perhaps less interesting because there wouldn't be any Yaegerists, thus no contention in Paradis, just everyone trying to avert the apocalypse), but it wasn't the case.

Honestly, this is one of the biggest flaws of the story, because its both a glaring plot hole, and would have justified the whole "we have to stop Eren" part of the ending. All of the issues people have regarding the ending and the fact that Eren's friends turned on him to save those who wanted to genocide them could have been rendered moot by just establishing the fact that Eren's actions would have destroyed his own people too, but he was simply too "blood simple" to realize that at this point. He was a violent psychopath and so he came up with a psychopathic solution that would have doomed everybody in the end. Its such a simple solution to a lot of the story's problems that it makes Isayama come across as even more of a hack writer that everybody else reading the manga realized this, but he didn't.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

The reason why almost everyone and their mom brings up all the environmental concerns with the Rumbling is not because its injecting real life into a story that never addresses it.

But due to the fact titans have repeatedly been established to cause environmental destruction from simply existing due to how much fucking body heat that they carry, with the Colossal Titan quite literally being a walking nuke or the Rod Reiss Titan destroying plant life from crawling near it.

Then during the Rumbling itself, we see how the army of Rumbling titans can scorch anyone who comes near them as well as boiling the ocean to release a lot of steam.

The fact you can look at that and not think there wouldn't be any environmental consequences is really silly.

Isayama really should've had someone acknowledged it beyond the outside of Paradis being flattened. Eren could still remain the same since the anime pretty much makes it clear he's an unrepetent psychopath (while the manga tries to make him a hero). Its not bad for the characters wanting to stop genocide because of it being fucked up, because quite frankly ever single thing that led to this is the fault of Eren's actions because he's an impatient brat. But the environmental destruction could've been a good extra bit of convincing, since some characters were almost sitting on the fence like Jean.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Honestly, this is one of the biggest flaws of the story, because its both a glaring plot hole, and would have justified the whole "we have to stop Eren" part of the ending. All of the issues people have regarding the ending and the fact that Eren's friends turned on him to save those who wanted to genocide them could have been rendered moot by just establishing the fact that Eren's actions would have destroyed his own people too, but he was simply too "blood simple" to realize that at this point. He was a violent psychopath and so he came up with a psychopathic solution that would have doomed everybody in the end. Its such a simple solution to a lot of the story's problems that it makes Isayama come across as even more of a hack writer that everybody else reading the manga realized this, but he didn't.

Yep, I was thinking that as I wrote it. It's actually an elegant solution, especially to everyone turning on him. I'd still be irked that Eren became a lunatic, but I guess that can be written off as due to Ymir's influence or something. It'd be an improvement at any rate.

The fact you can look at that and not think there wouldn't be any environmental consequences is really silly.

"Any environmental consequences"? It'd be catastrophic, no doubt. But it wouldn't be the end of the world, Eren took out 80% already and there was zero long-term consequence whatsoever, everybody was living as normal where the destruction didn't reach and as soon as they rebuilt they even went back to war.

If he just took out the other 20% (minus whatever Paradis constitutes) you're saying that extra amount of damage would tip the scales from "vurtually zero effect on the ecosystem" to "apocalypse". That is even sillier.

Its not bad for the characters wanting to stop genocide because of it being fucked up, because quite frankly ever single thing that led to this is the fault of Eren's actions because he's an impatient brat.

Whether or not it's Eren's fault is irrelevant, there's a high probability from the characters' perspective that their enemies will wipe them out if they stop the Rumbling (which we as readers know to be an indisputable fact).

Eren tells Armin he bought them time because it'll take a while for the enemy to rebuild and it'll be up to them at that point, and we know exactly how that ended. They betrayed Paradis, killed their friends, endangered their families, all to gamble on a hopeless peace where they are at their vicious enemies' mercy.

As a real world analogy, you may as well tell Israel to kneel to Palestine and beg for peace, discarding their military advantages permanently in pursuit of that, and hand Netanyahu's head to them as proof of intent. I'm sure it would go swimmingly for them too, no way the Muslims would still hate the Jews then!

 

[Bunny Tracks]

Its such a simple solution to a lot of the story's problems that it makes Isayama come across as even more of a hack writer that everybody else reading the manga realized this, but he didn't.

He wouldn't be the only one considering how people in this very thread keep doing the same thing.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

"Any environmental consequences"? It'd be catastrophic, no doubt. But it wouldn't be the end of the world, Eren took out 80% already and there was zero long-term consequence whatsoever, everybody was living as normal where the destruction didn't reach and as soon as they rebuilt they even went back to war.

If he just took out the other 20% (minus whatever Paradis constitutes) you're saying that extra amount of damage would tip the scales from "vurtually zero effect on the ecosystem" to "apocalypse". That is even sillier.

Just because Isayama doesn't show any consequences, doesn't mean you can't infer they didn't happen. The world is already fucked with only 80% of it destroyed, and planting trees doesn't really change anything. This type of thinking is just pure objective permenance.

Whether or not it's Eren's fault is irrelevant, there's a high probability from the characters' perspective that their enemies will wipe them out if they stop the Rumbling (which we as readers know to be an indisputable fact).

Eren tells Armin he bought them time because it'll take a while for the enemy to rebuild and it'll be up to them at that point, and we know exactly how that ended. They betrayed Paradis, killed their friends, endangered their families, all to gamble on a hopeless peace where they are at their vicious enemies' mercy.

Both the manga and anime show that Paradis gets destroyed way after any of the relevant characters died, and it assumes that the Rumbling is the core reason, but its only semantics just as much as apparently me bringing up well established real world consequences of the Rumbling is. Not to mention, Paradis are not really innocent given with the deaths of Eren and Floch, the Yaegerists are still alive and kicking, explicitly shown to be running the island.

Again I would not consider the environmental damages of the Rumbling if Isayama didn't have the titans be walking carbon dioxide generators. If the titans were just naked giants that didn't emit any excess heat aside, I wouldn't bother bringing it up.

Hell Isayama seems to be aware since he just later says that its okay because they're planting trees. So he acknowledges it, even if its flimsy at best.

Isayama falls into the trap of many stories that try to take the turn of disasters that would destroy the world, and don't even think about the realistic consequences that would happen.

As a real world analogy, you may as well tell Israel to kneel to Palestine and beg for peace, discarding their military advantages permanently in pursuit of that, and hand Netanyahu's head to them as proof of intent. I'm sure it would go swimmingly for them too, no way the Muslims would still hate the Jews then!

I am going to nitpick this analogy since if you wanted a good point, you should've had the roles reversed given how Israel has so many first world countries sucking their dick.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Just because Isayama doesn't show any consequences, doesn't mean you can't infer they didn't happen. The world is already fucked with only 80% of it destroyed, and planting trees doesn't really change anything. This type of thinking is just pure objective permenance.

What we can infer is there's no significant effects, it changed nothing about their every day lives and nobody talks about it.

Both the manga and anime show that Paradis gets destroyed way after any of the relevant characters died, and it assumes that the Rumbling is the core reason, but its only semantics just as much as apparently me bringing up well established real world consequences of the Rumbling is.

The anime in particular attempted to put it further in the future to make Eren's actions seem to have a longer impact for Paradis, but the manga makes it seem as if the attack happened not terribly long in the future.

Honestly, that change is almost on par with the final ending theme's cope that Eren & Mikasa reunited that shippers cling to. The manga is canon, Eren seemed to only buy enough time for his friends to live in peace and then he never reunited with Mikasa at all. Half-assed anime-only attempts to appease fans who wanted Paradis to survive and for there to be a happy ending only serve to diminish the original story's impact, better to just take AoT for what it was, a black pill.

Not to mention, Paradis are not really innocent given with the deaths of Eren and Floch, the Yaegerists are still alive and kicking, explicitly shown to be running the island.

Details slip my mind after I watch shows, but I don't recall Yaegerists being in control, Historia was to my memory, which seems to be why the traitors were allowed back instead of killed.

Regardless, what's wrong with that anyway? Their goals were only to ensure Paradis' survival, sounds like they should be in control if they're not, right?

Again I would not consider the environmental damages of the Rumbling if Isayama didn't have the titans be walking carbon dioxide generators.

It's not unfair to consider it, but to say with certainty they'd usher in the literal end of the world is too far considering how they already finished 80% of the job. The last bit--say Paradise is a low-ball 1% we can exclude--just 19% more, abd that's the difference between utter annihilation and no significant impact? I doubt it, but either way it just means Isayama is a bad writer, which we can all agree on for the most part.

Hell Isayama seems to be aware since he just later says that its okay because they're planting trees. So he acknowledges it, even if its flimsy at best.

Was that in the original manga? I don't remember it. But nobody suggested there was no damage, just the extent is being argued, a total collapse of the ecosystem was never hinted at, but destruction generally obviously is an effect.

Isayama falls into the trap of many stories that try to take the turn of disasters that would destroy the world, and don't even think about the realistic consequences that would happen.

It's a real problem in battle shonen especially. One Punch Man is especially egregious, I think, but it gets a pass for being comedic.

I am going to nitpick this analogy since if you wanted a good point, you should've had the roles reversed given how Israel has so many first world countries sucking their dick.

No analogy is perfect, it's not 1:1, but the fact remains that some enemies want you dead because of who you are, what you believe, or what your past is; they will never seek true peace, ever, and you should not trust them to the extent that you are ever at their mercy.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

What we can infer is there's no significant effects, it changed nothing about their every day lives and nobody talks about it.

It's not unfair to consider it, but to say with certainty they'd usher in the literal end of the world is too far considering how they already finished 80% of the job. The last bit--say Paradise is a low-ball 1% we can exclude--just 19% more, abd that's the difference between utter annihilation and no significant impact? I doubt it, but either way it just means Isayama is a bad writer, which we can all agree on for the most part.

It's a real problem in battle shonen especially. One Punch Man is especially egregious, I think, but it gets a pass for being comedic.

I think it would be best to put these all under Isayama being a bad writer than actual logistics

It's not unfair to consider it, but to say with certainty they'd usher in the literal end of the world is too far considering how they already finished 80% of the job. The last bit--say Paradise is a low-ball 1% we can exclude--just 19% more, abd that's the difference between utter annihilation and no significant impact? I doubt it, but either way it just means Isayama is a bad writer, which we can all agree on for the most part.

Was that in the original manga? I don't remember it. But nobody suggested there was no damage, just the extent is being argued, a total collapse of the ecosystem was never hinted at, but destruction generally obviously is an effect.

Its pretty much with the colossal titans causing a lot of damage from being walking carbon dioxide generators, that and with recent stuff Isayama has done with the anime and Volume 35, adding scenes of people planting trees and trying to fix presumably a lush environment that became a desert as a result of the rumbling.

The anime in particular attempted to put it further in the future to make Eren's actions seem to have a longer impact for Paradis, but the manga makes it seem as if the attack happened not terribly long in the future.

Honestly, that change is almost on par with the final ending theme's cope that Eren & Mikasa reunited that shippers cling to. The manga is canon, Eren seemed to only buy enough time for his friends to live in peace and then he never reunited with Mikasa at all. Half-assed anime-only attempts to appease fans who wanted Paradis to survive and for there to be a happy ending only serve to diminish the original story's impact, better to just take AoT for what it was, a black pill.

I normally would not consider any points from any adaptation when talking about the original work. But I feel like an exception must be made with AOT given how much Isayama has a history of basically treating the anime like the finished product and micromanages it to change as he likes from adding foreshadowing scenes, moving Ymir's flashback to after the Clash of the Titans arc, and changing almost everything about the Uprising arc, the anime is pretty much just as canon to consider. MAPPA's track record with how they'd faithfully adapt a manga to a T shows that Isayama pretty much forced some changes on the animators, and he's uncomfortably close to Eren's VA which had an impact on how Isayama even wrote the character as since the AOT anime aired, the voice performances made Isayama write characters differently to how he started.

tl;dr The anime to Isayama is pretty much a final draft than just an adaptation.

Details slip my mind after I watch shows, but I don't recall Yaegerists being in control, Historia was to my memory, which seems to be why the traitors were allowed back instead of killed.

Regardless, what's wrong with that anyway? Their goals were only to ensure Paradis' survival, sounds like they should be in control if they're not, right?

Like its not exactly bad on the surface, I'll agree. But given Floch was the leader of the Yeagerists and screaming about reviving the Eldian Empire, the one that has shown to explicitly be terrible to the entire world for multiple millennia, it pretty much becomes concerning given everytime we see the Yeagerists they pretty much accept Floch's word as gospel and with Floch no longer around, we are left with a group who'd want to revive the worst empire out there. Its not bad they want to protect their country, its that they want something more.

It says a lot that in the ending, the world pretty much sent the Alliance to Paradis since the rest of the world was scared shitless of what Paradis could do given Eren made them the most powerful.


Now with all of this, if you disagree, I think the big thing to take away from here instead of going in circles is that Isayama really didn't consider anything in the long term when writing some of these things.

 

[Bunny Tracks]

The dub is finally here. They didn't keep the "No, don't want that!", but holy fuck, did Bryce understand the assignment, and use his very best whiny middle-schooler voice.

 

[Random Internet Person]

The dub is finally here. They didn't keep the "No, don't want that!", but holy fuck, did Bryce understand the assignment, and use his very best whiny middle-schooler voice.
View attachment 5620486

The best part is the "I didn't think you'd say something that pathetic" line.

 

[Bunny Tracks]

Goddamn, the localizers love Armin lmao.

"I know of one charming fella she is close to already!"

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Wow, I forgot how bad the AoT dub is. I only watched the first episode, and watching that clip, now I remember why. Man, Armin's voice does not match the character a bit.

I think it would be best to put these all under Isayama being a bad writer than actual logistics

Maybe, he certainly didn't think it through enough at any rate.

Its pretty much with the colossal titans causing a lot of damage from being walking carbon dioxide generators, that and with recent stuff Isayama has done with the anime and Volume 35, adding scenes of people planting trees and trying to fix presumably a lush environment that became a desert as a result of the rumbling.

I know there was damage, again it's just unclear in-universe to what extent it hurt the Earth due to it being glossed over at best.

I normally would not consider any points from any adaptation when talking about the original work. But I feel like an exception must be made with AOT given how much Isayama has a history of basically treating the anime like the finished product and micromanages it to change as he likes from adding foreshadowing scenes, moving Ymir's flashback to after the Clash of the Titans arc, and changing almost everything about the Uprising arc, the anime is pretty much just as canon to consider.

I understand your point, it's fair and you're probably right, but I prefer the manga and technically I don't think Isayama has directly addressed which version he considers canon so it's safe to default to the original work imo.

It's not that I even dislike any of the changes, if I never read the manga first before seeing the ending then I'd feel differently, but a few of the tweaks really come off as reactionary appeasement to the fanbase rather than his true vision.

The anime backpedaled on Armin's views on Eren's action to kiss the critic's asses who didn't like the admittedly awkward "thanks for being a mass murderer", added the Eren & Mikasa reunion to kiss ass to butthurt shippers who didn't like what appeared to be her moving on (very cute but still, it's cheap), and kissed ass to people who didn't like Paradis being wiped out so they softened the blow by putting it further into the future (if I really think about it I like this change, but again, it feels cheap).

The anime is bastardized to try to smooth over so much that it's like Isayama tried to have his cake and eat it too, but I'm ranting now.

Like its not exactly bad on the surface, I'll agree. But given Floch was the leader of the Yeagerists and screaming about reviving the Eldian Empire, the one that has shown to explicitly be terrible to the entire world for multiple millennia, it pretty much becomes concerning given everytime we see the Yeagerists they pretty much accept Floch's word as gospel and with Floch no longer around, we are left with a group who'd want to revive the worst empire out there. Its not bad they want to protect their country, its that they want something more.

Reviving the Eldian Empire doesn't necessitate repeating its exact actions, I'd read that as more of a MAGA-esque nationalistic thing, and nationalism in and of itself is good. I guess I could understand how other countries would perceive that badly though.

It says a lot that in the ending, the world pretty much sent the Alliance to Paradis since the rest of the world was scared shitless of what Paradis could do given Eren made them the most powerful.

I'm not really sure what you mean here. I don't see why they'd be scared by the end, they accepted that their Titan abilities were gone.

Now with all of this, if you disagree, I think the big thing to take away from here instead of going in circles is that Isayama really didn't consider anything in the long term when writing some of these things.

I don't completely disagree/agree, but yeah, he didn't consider anything long-term. Toriyama could get away with that kind of short-sighted storytelling, but a story like AoT needs a more clear vision.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

Reviving the Eldian Empire doesn't necessitate repeating its exact actions, I'd read that as more of a MAGA-esque nationalistic thing, and nationalism in and of itself is good. I guess I could understand how other countries would perceive that badly though.

Dude, the Yeagerists literally dress like fascists and believe in the outright racial superiority of the Eldian people, being all aboard Eren's "let's just destroy the world" schtick. On that front, the author wasn't exactly being subtle.

 

[Safir]

Eren tried being stoic and manly, keeping his feelings to himself, which is pretty admirable (reminds me of this story)

I agree with everything you wrote in this post, and further on w.r.t. genocide and treason, but you referenced Wormtongue so I have to give you a hat.

Also, Eren is a terminally ill child contemplating his untimely death. The people complaining about this scene display truly nigger levels of empathy.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Dude, the Yeagerists literally dress like fascists and believe in the outright racial superiority of the Eldian people, being all aboard Eren's "let's just destroy the world" schtick. On that front, the author wasn't exactly being subtle.

They weren't trying to destroy the world due to belief of racial superiority though, so even if they believed that it's irrelevant to the fact that their actions being conducted were out of self-preservation. Eren's stated goal was clear, I posted this earlier:



If I was an Eldian and heard that, given the circumstances, I'd have been a Yaegerist too.

I agree with everything you wrote in this post, and further on w.r.t. genocide and treason, but you referenced Wormtongue so I have to give you a hat.

Also, Eren is a terminally ill child contemplating his untimely death. The people complaining about this scene display truly nigger levels of empathy.

The complaining is based on an extremely surface level reading, that's why they judge the scene the way they do, I think it's more that than a lack of empathy. But considering the context and stuff, it's just a really misunderstood scene, which is too bad. There's a lot of things to criticize in AoT, but that's not really one of them.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

They weren't trying to destroy the world due to belief of racial superiority though, so even if they believed that it's irrelevant to the fact that their actions being conducted were out of self-preservation. Eren's stated goal was clear, I posted this earlier:



If I was an Eldian and heard that, given the circumstances, I'd have been a Yaegerist too.

The Yeagerists were completely aware that Eren was about to use the rumbling to destroy the world and actively supported Eren in doing that, doing everything they could to impede the protagonists. Like it or not, they were all for team genocide.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

The Yeagerists were completely aware that Eren was about to use the rumbling to destroy the world and actively supported Eren in doing that, doing everything they could to impede the protagonists. Like it or not, they were all for team genocide.

You can frame it that way, but Eren's plan was strictly self-defense from their perspective, not just "genocide". The protagonists were literally traitors to them.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

You can frame it that way, but Eren's plan was strictly self-defense from their perspective, not just "genocide". The protagonists were literally traitors to them.

I mean, you can "frame it" that way, but it doesn't change what it actually was. The main cast realized exactly what Eren was doing. Flock clearly had no compunctions about Eren's actions. You would literally have to be an idiot to not realize what was going on.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

I mean, you can "frame it" that way, but it doesn't change what it actually was. The main cast realized exactly what Eren was doing. Flock clearly had no compunctions about Eren's actions. You would literally have to be an idiot to not realize what was going on.

No, no, they realized what was going on, Eren told them, and told them why. Everybody realized what Eren was doing, but it was deemed necessary to ensure survival by the Yaegerists, and deemed too high a cost for ensured survival by the traitors.

That's literally it. One side wanted to gamble Paradis' continued existence on a (objectively doomed in hindsight) longshot plea for peace, the other wanted their enemies gone.

Now you can blame Paradis, their past/current actions, and/or Eren for whatever leading up to the Rumbling, but at that very moment, with the circumstances as they were, the average citizen who values their own nation/family would obviously be in support of it and become a Yaegerist.

 

[Chilson]

Jesus Christ, you faggots are still arguing about the rumbling??

Isayama is a moronic JJ Abrams tier hack fraud who didn't think anything through as he rushed towards his stupid MCU style ending. There, that is all that needs to be discussed.