George RR Martin, his fanboys, and former fanbase

[draggs]

The original story was a trilogy. Then it became five books. Then seven. Then a whole franchise. GRRM never plans anything. The ages of the characters makes no sense in the books. The leaders of the entire world are all teenagers and children. Frodo and the Fellowship are all adults. With Frodo being 50-years-old when he leaves the Shire. Yet in Westeros they have Rob a child king, Jon a child in charge of the Night's Watch, Dany is a child with dragons, Bran is a child demigod. It's like a shonen manga story or Harry Potter where everyone who is a main character is a high school aged genius. Imagine if Frodo was an 11-year-old and Aragorn had just turned 14.

The fourth book containing less than half of its intended plot should have set off alarm bells at his publisher but he had too much goodwill. It has clearly spiraled out of control into the problem now. Which is that he obviously never intends to finish the series (especially seeing that everyone laughed at his endings when they made to the HBO show).

I particularly loved the "humans physically mature faster in this world" explanation for why there is constant jailbait sex or references to past jailbait sex going on the entire series of novels. The Middle Ages was not a bunch of lolicons and jailbait chasers everywhere but every vaguely Middle Ages-culture fantasy thing in the last 30 years just has to have 13-16 year olds fucking each other and adults nonstop

 

[Blue Gem Kosher Queen]

Dany going crazy was actually one of the few things I didn't mind about the ending. Going full dragon Fuhrer made sense considering she was always kind of an arrogant idealistic twit.

Probably what pushes her in the books is either FAegon being crowned after she helped defeat the Others (if she even does it) or Euron tentacle mindfucking her to bring apocalypse, all so our precious Targ baby princess can be both our beloved schizo girlboss and our beloved schizo genocider at the same time.

About the four upcoming battles/wars, at least one is probably fizzling out earlier than the others as a cope out. How about we guess which one is going to be described to us.

Battle of Ice: Tons of fan favourites.

Battle of Blood: Cosmic horror galore.

Battle of Fire: Tons of fan favourites.

Battle of Steel: ASOIAF's fans pick.

 

[ShittlerNiggler]

The original story was a trilogy. Then it became five books. Then seven. Then a whole franchise. GRRM never plans anything. The ages of the characters makes no sense in the books. The leaders of the entire world are all teenagers and children. Frodo and the Fellowship are all adults. With Frodo being 50-years-old when he leaves the Shire. Yet in Westeros they have Rob a child king, Jon a child in charge of the Night's Watch, Dany is a child with dragons, Bran is a child demigod. It's like a shonen manga story or Harry Potter where everyone who is a main character is a high school aged genius. Imagine if Frodo was an 11-year-old and Aragorn had just turned 14.

The fourth book containing less than half of its intended plot should have set off alarm bells at his publisher but he had too much goodwill. It has clearly spiraled out of control into the problem now. Which is that he obviously never intends to finish the series (especially seeing that everyone laughed at his endings when they made to the HBO show).

don't forget that half of these children have sex scenes that last an entire page or longer

 

[Tasty Tatty]

The original story was a trilogy. Then it became five books. Then seven. Then a whole franchise. GRRM never plans anything. The ages of the characters makes no sense in the books. The leaders of the entire world are all teenagers and children. Frodo and the Fellowship are all adults. With Frodo being 50-years-old when he leaves the Shire. Yet in Westeros they have Rob a child king, Jon a child in charge of the Night's Watch, Dany is a child with dragons, Bran is a child demigod. It's like a shonen manga story or Harry Potter where everyone who is a main character is a high school aged genius. Imagine if Frodo was an 11-year-old and Aragorn had just turned 14.

That could have been solved if the time after the Rebellion was 20 years instead of 15.

Although Robb and Jon being very young really doesn't bother me much. Both make mistakes that a sixteen years old would make.

 

[Smashing Young Man]

I'd be okay with GRRM's sex scenes if they weren't all so fucking vile. He really emphasises the most bizarre, unappealing aspects of sex, such as describing in detail how Khal Drogo's nut drips down Daenerys' thigh, or how hard a woman's nipples are, or describing cocks as 'worms'. Only a sexless freak such as George would write like this. Literally zero passion in any of it, which is highly unusual considering sex is the most passionate act a human can engage in. I'm not joking when I say that while reading these weird, sterile scenes all I can think about is George's stupid fucking face. Completely takes me out of the story.

Why are nerds like this?? Freakshit like that ruins a perfectly good story

With some authors, you really get the sense they're typing their sex scenes one-handed. Martin is one of those.

 

[Sinner's Sandwich]

This bears the question, couldn't they come up with alternative fuel methods, like water or manual mechanics?

Even the romans had some knowledge about the powers of steam. It's just lazy writing. Fat George would rather describe penises in graphic detail than answer basic questions.

 

[draggs]

I think it was due to the presence of the Others, but as another poster pointed out, this is simply handwaved as magic presence. The Wall remains that same way for a long time? Magic. Seasons that last years? Magic. The Targaryens' natural ability to tame dragons? Magic. The ability to resurrect dead people without a soul? Magic.

For someone who appears to be obsessed with building a concise fictional world with literal changes within humanity and society across different ages, GRRM sure fucking sucks at how his in-universe logic works. I recall the basic gist of Westeros' human occupation was "there were the Children of the Forest, then came the First Men that acted like cavemen who practiced genocide against the Children, then came the barbarian Andals and the moor Rhoynar that settled around the south, and from those settlements came the first kingdoms" and that's it. Feel free to correct any wrong points.

I also remember him mentioning that one of the key reasons why society was still stuck in the Middle Ages for literal millennia was that there were no fossil fuel reserves to be found underground, which halted further technological advances. This bears the question, couldn't they come up with alternative fuel methods, like water or manual mechanics? The other key reason was due to superstition borne from the differing religions. This is just Martin being a fedora fuckwad.

So what are they using to feed their forges? Charcoal? How is there a single tree left in all of the world after several thousands of years of large-scale production of iron and steel products but not having any coal to turn into coke?

 

[Shadfan666xxx000]

original story was a trilogy. Then it became five books. Then seven. Then a whole franchise. GRRM never plans anything. The ages of the characters makes no sense in the books. The leaders of the entire world are all teenagers and children. Frodo and the Fellowship are all adults. With Frodo being 50-years-old when he leaves the Shire. Yet in Westeros they have Rob a child king, Jon a child in charge of the Night's Watch, Dany is a child with dragons, Bran is a child demigod. It's like a shonen manga story or Harry Potter where everyone who is a main character is a high school aged genius. Imagine if Frodo was an 11-year-old and Aragorn had just turned 14

Tbf, they have an excuse for that in that the last generation of rulers were killed young and they themselves had their parents die young. It actually ties into the theme of Westeros unraveling at the seams from the recent chaos since the violence and unresolved political questions are causing the elder statesmen of the society to get killed off in droves.

 

[WhiskeyJack]

I could’ve sworn coal, coal oil, and coal tar are all mentioned in various books. I know that coal tar is mentioned as being used for ink in “Dance”.

Maybe Martin forgot about already establishing fossil fuels in Westeros?

Anyway, seems like an unnecessary explanation for the lack of technological development. The well established decades-long ice age that breaks out every other generation is ample explanation, at least for Westeros.

And Essos just had a relatively advanced magic-based civilization destroyed in a cataclysm and there’s a pseudo-Mongol horde riding about the interior to explain why they aren’t all advancing either.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

I thought about how Westeros is similar to Warhammer Fantasy setting. Both are medieval dung age with magic somehow being incredibly potent and unheard of at the same time.

WH at least has the excuse of being a setting of a board game and while everything below Europe might as well not matter, at least other races gets their stories. SoIaF goes "oh those uppity Euros Americans think they only matter, but other empires exist", but as far as the story goes only Westeros has things happen and it needs to handle the apocalypse alone.

Also I like reading old WH books with past lore, while SoIaF past is just the same secession wars only with the sides changing for dramatic irony.

 

[Foltest]

That could have been solved if the time after the Rebellion was 20 years instead of 15.

Although Robb and Jon being very young really doesn't bother me much. Both make mistakes that a sixteen years old would make.

I think that is why in the tv show, they are older.
Say what you will about D&D, but it was a smart decision by them.

 

[The Taco Santo!]

I thought about how Westeros is similar to Warhammer Fantasy setting. Both are medieval dung age with magic somehow being incredibly potent and unheard of at the same time.

WH at least has the excuse of being a setting of a board game and while everything below Europe might as well not matter, at least other races gets their stories. SoIaF goes "oh those uppity Euros Americans think they only matter, but other empires exist", but as far as the story goes only Westeros has things happen and it needs to handle the apocalypse alone.

Also I like reading old WH books with past lore, while SoIaF past is just the same secession wars only with the sides changing for dramatic irony.

Not to mention the refusal to advance the fucking story, which, to be fair, was more a Warhammer 40K fan thing, and when they did advance the story in the End Times, they just killed everyone so they could substitute a new world, full of trandemarkable races and names, instead of 'Orcs' or 'Vampires' or 'Zombies'. And most fans weren't very happy about it, just like the few remaining ASOIAF fans won't be happy when he gets around to advancing his story, or dying and leaving someone else to do it (the most likely scenario). It worked out for Wheel of Time, maybe it'll work here. I don't see his publishers leaving that guaranteed money on the table, after all, and he'll be dead so no one can hear his complaints.

 

[Tasty Tatty]

I think that is why in the tv show, they are older.
Say what you will about D&D, but it was a smart decision by them.

They didn't do it because they wanted them to look older and wiser: they did it because they couldn't make them have sex scenes at 14 or 13. That's why they aged Missandei (who's 9 in the books).

 

[BrunoMattei]

They didn't do it because they wanted them to look older and wiser: they did it because they couldn't make them have sex scenes at 14 or 13. That's why they aged Missandei (who's 9 in the books).

What in the fuck kind of conversation did I stumble into?

 

[Tasty Tatty]

What in the fuck kind of conversation did I stumble into?

That was a known conversation when GoT was on its fifth season: they were expecting some characters to get older to expose them to sexual situations. Jon, Robb, and Dany are an obvious case: they all have sex when they're young in the books, and IICR, some laws in Europe didn't allow them to even hint that they were having sex because of the age of the characters and actors. Fair enough.

But then you have Sansa, Arya, and Missandei. Arya is still a kid in the books so she's not having sex in the story. But in the show, she did because the actress already was an adult. Missandei was also cast as an older woman so they could show her naked to the audience. Sansa doesn't have sex scenes in the book either, but you all know what they did.

Too many characters have unnecessary sex scenes in that show, but having the young characters aged for that to happen in purpose it's particularly creepy.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Not to mention the refusal to advance the fucking story, which, to be fair, was more a Warhammer 40K fan thing, and when they did advance the story in the End Times, they just killed everyone so they could substitute a new world, full of trandemarkable races and names, instead of 'Orcs' or 'Vampires' or 'Zombies'. And most fans weren't very happy about it, just like the few remaining ASOIAF fans won't be happy when he gets around to advancing his story, or dying and leaving someone else to do it (the most likely scenario). It worked out for Wheel of Time, maybe it'll work here. I don't see his publishers leaving that guaranteed money on the table, after all, and he'll be dead so no one can hear his complaints.

At least Fantasy had the excuse of having a lot of plotlines that had to be cut once the plot was advanced, with the added issue of humans dying of old age. Martin is just lazily avoiding the obvious conclusion to his plotline after the entire internet guessed it.

 

[Mega Black]

I don't really care much about the reasons why the setting hasn't advanced along what we would consider a reasonable time frame. It feels like pedantic nerd shit that doesn't matter when the whole appeal of the setting is it being mostly medieval.

 

[Candlelight Desolation]

GRRM made a beginning of year post which is just making excuses as to why he isn't writing TWOW. Some excerpts:

"There is war everywhere. Ukraine and Gaza dominate the news, but there is a war in Myanmar as well that our western media just ignores, things are heating up in Yemen and the Red Sea, North Korea has nukes and is testing missiles and rattling sabres, Venezuela is threatening to annex three quarters of neighboring Guyana."

"Meanwhile the US grows more polarized every day. Hate is rising, democracy is under threat, millions of Americans have swallowed the lie that the 2020 election was stolen. Newspeak has taken over political discourse, cancel culture is destroying lives and careers, and we have a disgraced, indicted, venomous ex-president winning primaries despite openly declaring that he will be a dictator on day one and will govern on a platform of “retribution,” when he is not busy grabbing women by the pussy. His last attempt to overthrow the government failed on January 6, but some of his more ardent supporters are now saying that “next time” they will bring more guns. There are actually folks out there wanting civil war."

"It is hard to escape the feeling that we are living in the Weimar Republic."

"I am famous and I am wealthy and, supposedly, I have a “big platform.” Whatever that is. But I have grown more and more cynical about this supposed “power” that people keep telling me I have. Has anything I have ever written here ever changed a single mind, a single vote? I see no evidence of that. The era of rational discourse seems to have ended."

"And don’t get me started on immigration. We are a nation of immigrants, yet millions of us have now decided we hate immigrants… refugees dreaming of a better life who are no better or worse or different than our own ancestors."

Just say you're not going to finish the book, George. This hits so many boxes on NPC bingo it's not funny.

 

[Starscream's Loyalty]

GRRM made a beginning of year post which is just making excuses as to why he isn't writing TWOW. Some excerpts:

"There is war everywhere. Ukraine and Gaza dominate the news, but there is a war in Myanmar as well that our western media just ignores, things are heating up in Yemen and the Red Sea, North Korea has nukes and is testing missiles and rattling sabres, Venezuela is threatening to annex three quarters of neighboring Guyana."

"Meanwhile the US grows more polarized every day. Hate is rising, democracy is under threat, millions of Americans have swallowed the lie that the 2020 election was stolen. Newspeak has taken over political discourse, cancel culture is destroying lives and careers, and we have a disgraced, indicted, venomous ex-president winning primaries despite openly declaring that he will be a dictator on day one and will govern on a platform of “retribution,” when he is not busy grabbing women by the pussy. His last attempt to overthrow the government failed on January 6, but some of his more ardent supporters are now saying that “next time” they will bring more guns. There are actually folks out there wanting civil war."

"It is hard to escape the feeling that we are living in the Weimar Republic."

"I am famous and I am wealthy and, supposedly, I have a “big platform.” Whatever that is. But I have grown more and more cynical about this supposed “power” that people keep telling me I have. Has anything I have ever written here ever changed a single mind, a single vote? I see no evidence of that. The era of rational discourse seems to have ended."

"And don’t get me started on immigration. We are a nation of immigrants, yet millions of us have now decided we hate immigrants… refugees dreaming of a better life who are no better or worse or different than our own ancestors."

Just say you're not going to finish the book, George. This hits so many boxes on NPC bingo it's not funny.

Oh shove it up your perverted ass, George. Write your fucking book.

 

[Rome's rightful successor]

GRRM made a beginning of year post which is just making excuses as to why he isn't writing TWOW. Some excerpts:

"There is war everywhere. Ukraine and Gaza dominate the news, but there is a war in Myanmar as well that our western media just ignores, things are heating up in Yemen and the Red Sea, North Korea has nukes and is testing missiles and rattling sabres, Venezuela is threatening to annex three quarters of neighboring Guyana."

"Meanwhile the US grows more polarized every day. Hate is rising, democracy is under threat, millions of Americans have swallowed the lie that the 2020 election was stolen. Newspeak has taken over political discourse, cancel culture is destroying lives and careers, and we have a disgraced, indicted, venomous ex-president winning primaries despite openly declaring that he will be a dictator on day one and will govern on a platform of “retribution,” when he is not busy grabbing women by the pussy. His last attempt to overthrow the government failed on January 6, but some of his more ardent supporters are now saying that “next time” they will bring more guns. There are actually folks out there wanting civil war."

"It is hard to escape the feeling that we are living in the Weimar Republic."

"I am famous and I am wealthy and, supposedly, I have a “big platform.” Whatever that is. But I have grown more and more cynical about this supposed “power” that people keep telling me I have. Has anything I have ever written here ever changed a single mind, a single vote? I see no evidence of that. The era of rational discourse seems to have ended."

"And don’t get me started on immigration. We are a nation of immigrants, yet millions of us have now decided we hate immigrants… refugees dreaming of a better life who are no better or worse or different than our own ancestors."

Just say you're not going to finish the book, George. This hits so many boxes on NPC bingo it's not funny.

"Bad things are happening out of my control like war and orange man and that's why I'm never writing my two books that I promised to you all because fuck you that's why."