Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Abowaffen]

There are only two ways Russia can secure Odessa Oblast. Either by conquering Kiev to the North and then moving south, or a combination maritime and land operation, due largely to the presence of major water ways and swamps around the city of Odessa proper.

I think it is very, very unlikely, but if Ukraine completely runs out of artillery and anti-air missiles, anything could happen.

Putin might start to be reasonable.

 

[Sargon's wife's son]

New video from Puck responding to Mike Johnson's foot-dragging:

Puck's basic theme is that Johnson's complaint that Ukraine/Biden have not provided a "strategy" for victory is unreasonable. Military strategy is never static and must always change based on circumstances, and so it's not like they can hand him a piece of paper with Ukraine's strategy. For example, plans have to adapt to what resources will be available, so that Johnson is himself influencing "strategy" by stalling aid.

The United States should just fly all our stealth aircraft into Ukrainian air space blow up all those Sam systems do a bunch of anti armor airstrikes
Blow up most of the Air Force
And then when Russia complains just pretend we have absolutely no idea what they are talking about we never did that we never sent our troops or Air Force into their country and I think they are crazy
Russia pulled the same thing in 2014 Luhansk and Donetsk
With those special operation units

Here's the thing the problem with threatening people with nuclear annihilation as your first go to diplomatic choice is he got to do it at least once or else people don't take you seriously America is actually nuked two major Japanese cities so if we threaten someone with nuclear war we're pretty serious about it

Half-ass measures never work in international diplomacy the reason Donald Trump never had anybody start s*** under his watch because he'd actually beat that country's face into the ground

Democrats and their party or actual national security threat and they should be banned because of it

 

[AgendaPoster]

The United States should just fly all our stealth aircraft into Ukrainian air space blow up all those Sam systems do a bunch of anti armor airstrikes
Blow up most of the Air Force
And then when Russia complains just pretend we have absolutely no idea what they are talking about we never did that we never sent our troops or Air Force into their country and I think they are crazy

I know you're half joking cause that would start WW3.
The thing is, the US could achieve all this without any personal involvement by simply providing to Ukraine enough missiles and decoys to saturate Russia radars and take them out in the confusion. Which are not that many. A few hundred HARMs (there is a new variant, AGM-88G or something, so no need for dozens of planes) would saturate the air defenses and leave the entirety of Donbas without a cover for maybe days until replacement.
Again, if this does not happen, it's because the US simply does not want it to happen.

 

[Techpriest Mk II]

The United States should just fly all our stealth aircraft into Ukrainian air space blow up all those Sam systems do a bunch of anti armor airstrikes
Blow up most of the Air Force
And then when Russia complains just pretend we have absolutely no idea what they are talking about we never did that we never sent our troops or Air Force into their country and I think they are crazy
Russia pulled the same thing in 2014 Luhansk and Donetsk
With those special operation units

Here's the thing the problem with threatening people with nuclear annihilation as your first go to diplomatic choice is he got to do it at least once or else people don't take you seriously America is actually nuked two major Japanese cities so if we threaten someone with nuclear war we're pretty serious about it

Half-ass measures never work in international diplomacy the reason Donald Trump never had anybody start s*** under his watch because he'd actually beat that country's face into the ground

Democrats and their party or actual national security threat and they should be banned because of it

This is pretty retarded. Are you willing to gamble the lives of tens of millions in attacks that in no reasonable fashion can be denied or downplayed (compared to the 2014 operations in Dontesk) against a nuclear power? Are you willing to gamble any moral high ground left for an attack that would have massive long term implications on international relations with pretty much every major nation in the world? Are you willing to gamble that it will go right, and not go horribly wrong in some way as any operation on a massive scale tends to do? If you say yes, look in the mirror and realize you're part of that expendable tens of millions in this scenario.

I know you're half joking cause that would start WW3.
The thing is, the US could achieve all this without any personal involvement by simply providing to Ukraine enough missiles and decoys to saturate Russia radars and take them out in the confusion. Which are not that many. A few hundred HARMs (there is a new variant, AGM-88G or something, so no need for dozens of planes) would saturate the air defenses and leave the entirety of Donbas without a cover for maybe days until replacement.
Again, if this does not happen, it's because the US simply does not want it to happen.

How many launching platforms are there for the HARM's? How many AD radars are actually squawking at any given time? How would this risk pay off in the long term? Could we do something better with that money? You're overlooking a lot of factors here. It's easy to say 'WE SHOULD GIVE THEM FIVE HUNDRED MISSILES' and to sit around and nod and call people cucks for not doing so, but the actual logistics of providing this stuff has to factor into it. What's better, a bunch of missiles they can't fire, or more artillery shells they can? A bunch of long range strike capability, or more replacement APC's and IFV's?

It isn't always 'we don't want to do it.' There's often plenty of reasons why we don't do it. We could divert all M1 Abram's production to Ukraine, but there's contracts with Taiwan and Australia and other nations who have paid for those already. We could give them a full squadron of F-35's, but that would be risky as a single one shot down will be on a train to Beijing ASAP. This is not HOI4.

 

[AgendaPoster]

How many launching platforms are there for the HARM's? How many AD radars are actually squawking at any given time? How would this risk pay off in the long term? Could we do something better with that money? You're overlooking a lot of factors here. It's easy to say 'WE SHOULD GIVE THEM FIVE HUNDRED MISSILES' and to sit around and nod and call people cucks for not doing so, but the actual logistics of providing this stuff has to factor into it. What's better, a bunch of missiles they can't fire, or more artillery shells they can? A bunch of long range strike capability, or more replacement APC's and IFV's?

There aren't many. The ground launched HARM is not yet mass produced I believe. Might've changed since I last read.
The only way US might be able to help Ukraine efficiently is with a war economy, which would also serve as an immediate exit from inflation and economic troubles. So it would be great for the US.
Those calculations you want made should've been performed in April 2022 already. I haven't call anyone cucks BTW. I don't think it's cowardice. It's simply a cynical calculation that US interests are better served by a stalemate meatgrinder than an armed and ready to pounce Ukraine that would destabilize the area by ethnically purging the Donbas and Crimea, cause that's gonna happen, yes.
The US wants things as stable as possible with Russia caught in war for as long as possible.
I don't, cause I value very highly both Ukrainian and Russian lives. I want the Russian oligarchy that started this hanged in the public square. I want Ukraine liberated in full as fast as possible with as little lives lost as possible. And then I want peace and reconciliation being forced upon both sides, if necessary, so this conflict is extinguished.

 

[NewFagWhore]

The only way US might be able to help Ukraine efficiently is with a war economy, which would also serve as an immediate exit from inflation and economic troubles. So it would be great for the US.

How exactly do you think “war economy” (do you even know what that means) is going to help stop inflation you absolute retard? Or are you saying that only because there might be more copper to steal?

The US wants things as stable as possible with Russia caught in war for as long as possible.
I don't, cause I value very highly both Ukrainian and Russian lives

1. Lol
2. Lmao
3. Why do you think your opinion and moralfagging on the subject matters, or is going to change anything ? “Guys I care about lives, I am a GOOD PERSON”
4. Zozzle

 

[Bunny Wigglesworth]

It's actually quite insane that this dude is basically an athlete (has videos about how to work out in adverse frontline conditions etc.) and infantry soldier with such levels of debilitating allergies. Basically what's happening to him that being allergic, all sorts of contaminants/pollutants will trigger a highly inflammatory reaction in his lungs and airways, and that inflammation will also make him more vulnerable to catching whatever bugs are doing the rounds, so after some asthmatic crisis he'd probably get an infection too, and then comes the pneumonia.
Super nasty shit. I know people that are literally wearing N95s during spring time, pollen etc. Some even in their homes if they cannot avoid their allergens.
Since he received injectable corticosteroids, I assume the inflammation was so bad that they couldn't fix it with anything else. That comes with its own set of adverse effects and issues.
I'm surprised he is not getting the same allergies though in the US. Must be some flora that's specific to Ukraine.
Still, crazy that he works out and keeps fit. Most people with such issues are nearly fully wrecked.

Gotta be all the asbestos that’s been released into the environs due to the Russian invasion. Russia (and Ukraine, being a thrall of Russia) did not stop using asbestos until a few years ago.

During its time under the Soviet Union, Ukraine itself was a major producer of asbestos, and used high volumes of asbestos-containing materials in construction. Although policy makers were increasingly aware of the risks, the complex geopolitics between Russia and Ukraine made it extremely difficult for Ukraine to ban the import, sale or use of asbestos. In fact, in 2011 the government of Ukraine sided with Russia to block the inclusion of chrysotile asbestos in the Rotterdam Convention, an international agreement on the trade of hazardous chemicals.

In the years to come, rate of asbestosis, mesothelioma, etc is probably going to be through the roof with veterans of this war.

 

[Snekposter]

Since I've had a pretty mediocre day, all you get from me is this:

Dark, ironic humor is the only sane response to those cursed to live the pitiful existence of a Slav.

 

[Sargon's wife's son]

Since I've had a pretty mediocre day, all you get from me is this:
View attachment 5636652
Dark, ironic humor is the only sane response to those cursed to live the pitiful existence of a Slav.

I look in the mirror every single day and say disgusting subhuman Ukrainian trash
And then I remember I live in the United States I may be Slavic by Blood but I'm Anglo by nationality

You know the funny thing is it is still perfectly legal to lend other countries your Naval power hasn't been done in a while but the United States could just lend Ukraine let's say two aircraft carriers strike groups as long as they fly under Ukrainian Flags they are technically under Ukrainian jurisdiction.

What's Russia going to do b**** about International maritime law

The us could also get itself involved by the 1992 Budapest memorandum which Russia is a signatory to you could very easily argue Russia violated it and America Great Britain have the ability to respond to Russia's military aggression in Ukraine with lethal Force

 

[Ghostse]

Issue with HARM saturation is that Russia has improved their RADAR discipline since they first arrived on the scene. The other issue is that Ukraine needs a better platform for launching them, because yooks are only using them in terminal guidance mode and can't use the cool GPS features.

If you try for HARM saturation, Russia would just start using decoys or improve their air defense around said RADARS. S-300 & S-400 (and 500) like the Patriot, is decentralized, they could begin using more powerful transmitters deeper inside Russia for the pulse. They can also do things like sacrifice range and go down to older soviet radars for tracking.

Even if we pretend that you shutdown the entire Russian ground-based air defense until repairs/replacements come online, they have enough MiGs to do combat air patrols to pick up the slack - and they have enough planes to do that.

What I'm saying is that Russia would be able to deal with HARM spam longer than Ukraine would be able to keep it up.

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

Apparently a recording of one of the crew requesting an emergency landing:
View attachment 5635926

"Best I can do is submergency landing"
Say privet to Moskva's crew while you're there

 

[SBG]

He's done this repeatedly but leftcucks still think he's just going to tuck tail and run. Remember that time the US lit Wagner the fuck up in Syria...let's see who the Commander-in-Chief was that gave clearance for retaliation...well whaddya know? Trump was POTUS, very very interesting. For a supposed Russian asset, I would think it would be a bad thing to murder your masters' pets.

He told Germany to stop sucking at the Russian gas teat, he told NATO to pay their fair share (don't forget NATO agreed to increase their spending during King Niggers presidency but mostly failed to do), he increased weapon shipments to Ukraine, signed new defense spending agreements with Poland for weapons. For a supposed isolationist that wants America to crumble to dust he sure has done a lot to foil Chinese and Russian efforts to undermine the western sphere of influence.

Feels kinda hilarious to me how if Trump was in office right now he probably would've had the US bombing Russian forces or at least given massively more support/weapons than Biden did, yet tons of Trump supporters think he'd have done the exact opposite and instead given Putin everything he wanted.

I don't think anyone really gives a shit either way. If he died, it's probably due to his poor health IMO.
Though I suppose for us kiwis dead lolcow is always a loss, because milk is more valuable than whatever short-living satisfaction their demise might bring. Yeah, Gonzalo Lira is a pathetic worm who only has himself to blame here, but I personally wasn't rooting for his death, though I didn't feel bad for him either - he should've known better yet insisted on sawing the branch he sat on.

Gonzo will at least be a minor story for a while as there's a lot of right wingers pissed he was subjected to the local laws over in Ukraine. Many of the same people also were outraged over Andrew Tate getting in trouble for sex trafficking as they figured Americans should be above the in countries like Romania or wherever really.

Worst case scenario, Republicans push the story enough that Ukraine just publicizes the case they were building up against Gonzo to help explain why they actually arrested him. I could imagine someone like Marjorie Taylor Greene complaining enough to make that happen, other more sane Republicans probably wouldn't make that big of a deal of it as it could look embarrassing to come to the defense of someone so laughable.

 

[MG-34]

IL-22 photo surfaced. I'm not a plane expert but I don't think that thing can fly safely anymore.

 

[Brain Problems]

IL-22 photo surfaced. I'm not a plane expert but I don't think that thing can fly safely anymore.

View attachment 5637142

Nyet Tovarisch, those are glorious speed holes that will surely provide immeasurable boost in combat performance against the Hohols!

Apparently the Ukrainians are taking credit for shooting them down according to some sources on Twitter via Budonov.

 

[Techpriest Mk II]

Nyet Tovarisch, those are glorious speed holes that will surely provide immeasurable boost in combat performance against the Hohols!

Apparently the Ukrainians are taking credit for shooting them down according to some sources on Twitter via Budonov.

PAC-2 has the range, as do Ukrainian modified S-200’s

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

IL-22 photo surfaced. I'm not a plane expert but I don't think that thing can fly safely anymore.
View attachment 5637142

 

[R00T]

That is seriously a concern in Romania? There are only two ways Russia can secure Odessa Oblast.

Something something… three hundred Russians in plains clothes on a train something something… force every country to surrender because they have hostages.

I can’t remember the rest.

 

[Techpriest Mk II]

Publicly available data gives PAC-2 a range of about 160km (99 miles). I don’t know how much of that is kinetic carryover, but I’ll guess the last third is such, but I’d also give another ~10-20 km of additional “low hit probability” range where the missile isn’t going to be able to adjust course drastically on a maneuvering target but can still adjust course to hit. With the size of the targets and the altitude they’d be flying at plus the general standardized courses they’d be taking, I can see a cheeky patriot launcher being deployed for a few quick shots.

PAC-2’s hit Mach 4.8, or roughly 5000km per hour. The target would have less than 40 seconds to respond to the threat.

 

[mindlessobserver]

Knowing Russia, I bet a good 15 seconds of the missile locking on will be the Russian pilot shitting himself while thinking "I'm being shot at! What do I do? I've not trained for this!"

 

[teriyakiburns]

Something something… three hundred Russians in plains clothes on a train something something… force every country to surrender because they have hostages.

I can’t remember the rest.

300 russians in the showers at romani ranch