Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[SaidNoOneEver]

how could putler shell donetsk and then blame it on the saintly state of Ukraine? Ukraine would never do such a thing.

You joke but that's exactly what the cowards who refuse to fight are saying:

 

[Useful_Mistake]

https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/slovak-pm-says-ukraine-is-not-a-sovereign-country/

https://archive.ph/Cu0yA

 

[Myrtle the Turtle]

The territory celebrated as having been "won back" from Russia has been reduced to rubble and is uninhabitable. Regardless, there is no one left to live there and displaced families will likely never return.

This was to be expected. Another reason why I would like Russia to win is so that I don't have to pick up the multi-billion dollar bill that will inevitably come from Zelensky begging for blank checks to rebuild the country. We got taken by illiterate farmers in Afghanistan, imagine the theft from competent grifters.

 

[White_N]

You joke but that's exactly what the cowards who refuse to fight are saying:

View attachment 5653326

That brainless worm was too lazy to even remove the watermark from the screenshot he stole from Wargonzo's video
https://t.me/wargonzo/17714

14 people killed in shelling of market in Donetsk

Unfortunately, the number of people killed in the shelling of the Kirovsky district of Donetsk has risen to fourteen, with more than ten wounded. The worst thing is that this number may not be the final one either.

Today the AFU committed another cold and calculated mass murder of civilians in the capital of the republic. There is no doubt that the market was targeted and hit at the very time when people were shopping.

Both sellers and buyers were killed. The identities of the dead are being established. Even for Donetsk, which seemed to be used to everything, this is a tragedy. We hope that the terrorists will receive the punishment they deserve. Both in this life and the next.

upd. the death toll has risen to 18, the mayor of Donetsk said

What is interesting is that Reuters has reported this news indirectly holding Ukraine responsible for the deaths of 20 people.
https://www.reuters.com/world/eight...ian-controlled-city-donetsk-mayor-2024-01-21/

 

[Fruttasecca]

- By their estimates, they have lost over one million of their sons, fathers and husbands; an entire generation is gone.

Oh come on, did I miss WW3 or something?

You joke but that's exactly what the cowards who refuse to fight are saying:

View attachment 5653326

Maybe the video shows more but two dead guys, with no impact damage to be seen in a place that doesnt look like a "market" (are Ukrainians still using medieval open ground markets lawl) doesnt imply a missile hitting a "crowded market" to me.
Also imagine going to the Ukraine to gawk at dead bodies for twitter updoods, fucktard.

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https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/slovak-pm-says-ukraine-is-not-a-sovereign-country/

https://archive.ph/Cu0yA

Fico is a literal mob boss who calls hits on people, so he has no leg to stand on playing the corruption card.
He should also stay a little low because Slovakia has been getting away with a lot of shit, like constitutionally banning faggot marriage, putting Gypsys in ghettos, murdering a CIA asset journalist and a legit far right political party with a luftwaffen adler banner in the parliament.

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

What is interesting is that Reuters has reported this news indirectly holding Ukraine responsible for the deaths of 20 people.

So is CNN, subtly.

I suspect the media even realizes they can't sell the Russians shelling themselves narrative on this one especially with Russian forces decisively advancing everywhere.

 

[Fried-Rice12]

Why has Russia not pushed back the front line around Donetsk to the point that it is out of the range of ukrop artillery?
The shelling of Donetsk has gone on since the start of the war and I could understand the inability of the DPR to do anything due to the lack of military resources.
But for Russia it just sit around and let this happen SINCE THE START OF THE WAR is completely unacceptable.

As for the BTGs, I suspect there were lots of ghost soldiers in these formations. In peacetime, there was little need to keep a full roster and many soldiers only existed on paper, with their pay, benefits, and supplies going to the officers in charge of these units.

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

Why has Russia not pushed by the front line around Donetsk to the point that it is out of the range of ukrop artillery?
The shelling of Donetsk has gone on since the start of the war and I could understand the inability of the DPR to do anything due to the lack of military resources.
But for Russia it just sit around and let this happen SINCE THE START OF THE WAR is completely unacceptable.

As for the BTGs, I suspect there were lots of ghost soldiers in these formations. In peacetime, there was little need to keep a full roster and many soldiers only existed on paper, with their pay, benefits, and supplies going to the officers in charge of these units.

It's been shelled from Aadvika, apparently the most fortified city in Europe? You might be surprised to learn that this isn't a video game.

 

[Anasûrimbor Kellhus]

Why has Russia not pushed back the front line around Donetsk to the point that it is out of the range of ukrop artillery?

isn't that what they're working on in avdiika right now?

 

[Betonhaus]

It's been shelled from Aadvika, apparently the most fortified city in Europe? You might be surprised to learn that this isn't a video game.

At what point do they just announce that they will be dropping a nuke or superbomb on the city, so the people who listen have time to evacuate before that fortress is glassed?

 

[Strix454]

The artillery strikes on Donetsk, ukraine's responsibilty for them and the circumstances around them were just about universally reported in the western media as "unverified" and simply something the Russians had said.

"BBC News was not able to immediately verify the circumstances around the strike."
"Kyiv has not commented on the event and the claims could not be independently verified by The Associated Press."
"CNN is not able to independently verify this claim."
Guardian: "Ukraine has not commented on the event and the claims could not be independently verified."
NPR: "Kyiv has not commented on the event and the claims could not be independently verified by The Associated Press."

The ability to shell civilians in Donetsk is the whole reason why Ukraine will pay any price to hold on to Avdiivka. They probably did the artillery strike on Donetsk out of frustration over recent setbacks in Avdiivka. Its the strongest defensive position in Ukraine and it will likely not fall anytime soon, but the Russians are passed the elaborate outer fortifications. Where at the beginning it was incredibly difficult, its become a matter of slow but steady advances into the city through more normal fighting.

 

[BallsOfaKiwi]

@Feline Supremacist


Very good post there mate.
To answer the who's question on why Zelensky is doing it. We could speculate on all sorts of reasons.
But the purely human one is that he does not wish to admit that he is responsible for the great human tragedy that is unfolding.

Being an actor whose previous life was full of fame and fortune and ego-gratification, admitting to this could break a man.
As with some other Ukranians, they would probably like to live the lie just a little bit longer than to admit the truth.
It's the same with Hitler.

I remember the scene from the film "Der Undergang" where one of the people asks "Doesn't he see that the war is lost?" and the answer is "What does he have to lose (keeping up the illusion?)" .

A Lot more lives will be lost, yes. But in his mind life is already not worth living if there is no victory.
It's even worse for Zelensky because he had a chance to make peace very early on and he perhaps knows he bought the same lies his people did. (If he isn't a complete pysychopath doing it for money or just because he hates the Russians or something)

 

[Rubick]

‘Very worrying’: Trade unions alarmed by EU’s industrial collapse​

Europe’s major trade union organisations have expressed deep concern about the scale of the EU’s industrial decline, as structurally high energy prices continue to lay waste to a crucial pillar of the bloc’s economy.

Fears were compounded after a Eurostat study published on Monday (15 January) found that month-on-month industrial production in the EU fell by 0.2% in November last year, the third consecutive monthly decrease. Year-on-year industrial output was also down 5.8% in November after declining by 5.4% in October.

“We are facing a very worrying situation,” European Trade Union Confederation Confederal Secretary Ludovic Voet told Euractiv. “These figures are a canary in a coal mine: the biggest hit are the long-term investments in buildings and equipment.”

Voet’s concerns about a lack of investment in key infrastructure are also borne out by the Eurostat data.

Month-on-month production of capital goods such as buildings, machinery, and equipment fell by 0.8% across the bloc in November after dropping by 0.7% in October. Capital goods production was also 8.7% lower in November compared to the same month in 2022.

“The lack of investment we are seeing today is already having dramatic implications for working communities,” Voet warned.

“Factories are closing and jobs are being cut in the very sectors that lifted Europe to where it is today.” These especially include energy-intensive sectors such as the aluminium, fertiliser, and chemicals industries.

‘Raising the alarm’​

Judith Kirton-Darling, the acting joint general secretary of industriALL Europe, similarly told Euractiv that her organisation, which represents some seven million European workers, “has been raising the alarm about industrial decline and the threat of deindustrialisation in Europe for some time”.

She stressed that current EU policies, including the controversially stringent fiscal rules recently agreed by EU finance ministers, will only exacerbate the bloc’s industrial malaise.

“Alarmingly, fiscal austerity and a return to austerity policies are further hampering industrial development, potentially undermining Europe’s competitive position in the global market,” Kirton-Darling said.

Both Kirton-Darling and Voet urged European policymakers to introduce more “flexible” fiscal regulations to encourage investment. They also suggested that future state industrial subsidies should be contingent upon the strengthening of collective bargaining rights and the creation of high-quality jobs.

“Rather than imposing rigid fiscal constraints, European leaders should actively promote resilient industries, good industrial jobs, and social cohesion,” Kirton-Darling said.

Voet further warned that the EU’s failure to arrest its industrial decline is causing “bitterness and disillusionment” among European workers, which in turn is being “preyed on by the populist far-right, who only drive further division and chaos”.

“To win working people back to the European project, we need the EU to show it is on their side,” he said.

‘A clear and present danger’​

Experts contacted by Euractiv were similarly alarmed by the current state of Europe’s industrial sector.

“Deindustrialisation is a clear and present danger, especially for energy-intensive sectors vital to downstream ecosystems,” said Tobias Gehrke, a Senior Policy Fellow at the European Council on Foreign Relations.

Gehrke attributed the EU’s industrial decline largely to the energy crisis triggered by Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022. He also suggested that the bloc’s industrial woes “are exacerbated by ongoing challenges like the lack of skilled labour and insufficient infrastructure”, as well as “lavish industrial policies” in China and the US.

Ben McWilliams, an energy policy analyst at Bruegel think tank, agreed that high energy prices bear most responsibility for Europe’s industrial decline.

However, he suggested that it is unlikely that the impact of the US Inflation Reduction Act – which provides up to $369 billion in government subsidies to stimulate green investment and consumption – is “yet showing in the data”.

“[Energy] prices are less volatile but remain two-to-three times above pre-crisis levels,” McWilliams said. “These continue to be passed along value chains, and ultimately reduce the economic incentives for heavy industrial production in the EU.”

Like Kirton-Darling and Voet, McWilliams noted that Europe’s long-term industrial prospects will depend upon current and future national government policies.

“Longer perspectives on the EU’s industrial position cannot be interpreted from a short-term natural gas price-driven phenomenon,” McWilliams said.

“The future of Europe’s industrial competitiveness will instead be determined by its ability to develop new sources of renewable energy and create a good investment environment for innovation and the technologies of tomorrow.”

Gehrke agreed: “Without intervention, Europe’s deindustrialisation will only accelerate.”

https://www.euractiv.com/section/ec...de-unions-alarmed-by-eus-industrial-collapse/

https://archive.ph/0RiQc

EU economy is big and has a large safety margin. And a lot of zombie firms and industries will continue also being prepped up. A big question is how much of that safety margin is left. The manufacturing PMI isn't showing any signs of staying in the green and have been in the red for a while. Not only is EU's industry being hollowed out to a point of no return, but it also loosing markets.

 

[Strix454]

Why has Russia not pushed back the front line around Donetsk to the point that it is out of the range of ukrop artillery?
The shelling of Donetsk has gone on since the start of the war and I could understand the inability of the DPR to do anything due to the lack of military resources.
But for Russia it just sit around and let this happen SINCE THE START OF THE WAR is completely unacceptable.

The shelling has been going on for years. It long pre-dates the special military operation. The Ukrainians shell Donetsk from Avdiivka. Its the only position they have left from which they can do it. Avdiivka is a world-class fortress that has been built up over many years. Its the strongest defensive position in Ukraine; Its such a strong position that any sort of head-on attack on it would be suicide.

The only way to take Avdiivka is slowly and methodically.

 

[BallsOfaKiwi]

The shelling has been going on for years. It long pre-dates the special military operation. The Ukrainians shell Donetsk from Avdiivka. Its the only position they have left from which they can do it. Avdiivka is a world-class fortress that has been built up over many years. Its the strongest defensive position in Ukraine; Its such a strong position that any sort of head-on attack on it would be suicide.

The only way to take Avdiivka is slowly and methodically.

The biggest mistake of the Russians was to get high on their own farts and badly execute and plan a decapitation strike while also having no backup plan. Had they used their most elite formations for say Avdiika early on they would have had enough strategic reserves to maneuver through the north and the south and pincer that entire part of the front.

The biggest thing I don't understand is why they do not mobilize enough men to truly exploit a breakthrough and move into the rear of the Ukranians, away from their artillery and drones and fortifications.

But at this point probably everything is so fortified that such breakthroughs are nigh impossible, as we saw with the Ukranian spring summer winter "offensive" . There's also the shock that such a massive mobilization would have on the people of Russia and the world and who knows if they could actually supply a say 1 million man army vs the 250 000-350 000 that they have on the front right now rotating.

The Russians don't even seem to be looking for such a possibility though, they seem content with slowly draining the Ukranians of the resources they do not have enough of and it seems to be successful enough, except for the people dying in these grinding attacks of course.

 

[Blewberry Nausea]

I bring news of great Ukrainian victory!

Marta Kostyuk of Ukraine swept opponent Maria Timofeeva of Russia to make it to the last eight! Surely this moral victory will propel ukie troops to win in the field! A crushing blow to Russian pride.

 

[Elwood P. Dowd]

I bring news of great Ukrainian victory!

Marta Kostyuk of Ukraine swept opponent Maria Timofeeva of Russia to make it to the last eight! Surely this moral victory will propel ukie troops to win in the field! A crushing blow to Russian pride.

I'm just surprised whatever the governing body of tennis is these days is actually allowing Russians to play in tournaments.

I wonder if they shook hands at the end of the match?

Edit Answer: Nope.
Also, no RuzzZzzzian flag by Timofeeva's name. That'll show Putler who's boss.

Edit

 

[Metatron]

View attachment 5653485
View attachment 5653486

https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/slovak-pm-says-ukraine-is-not-a-sovereign-country/

https://archive.ph/Cu0yA

That man is based.

 

[Prester John]

@Feline Supremacist


Very good post there mate.
To answer the who's question on why Zelensky is doing it. We could speculate on all sorts of reasons.
But the purely human one is that he does not wish to admit that he is responsible for the great human tragedy that is unfolding.

Being an actor whose previous life was full of fame and fortune and ego-gratification, admitting to this could break a man.
As with some other Ukranians, they would probably like to live the lie just a little bit longer than to admit the truth.
It's the same with Hitler.

I remember the scene from the film "Der Undergang" where one of the people asks "Doesn't he see that the war is lost?" and the answer is "What does he have to lose (keeping up the illusion?)" .

A Lot more lives will be lost, yes. But in his mind life is already not worth living if there is no victory.
It's even worse for Zelensky because he had a chance to make peace very early on and he perhaps knows he bought the same lies his people did. (If he isn't a complete pysychopath doing it for money or just because he hates the Russians or something)

I'm not a huge fan of Zelensky, but I don't think he has much in common with Hitler. For one thing, Hitler was the aggressor. For another, the front in this war has hardly moved in the last year, whereas the walls were definitely closing on Hitler when he ended himself.

 

[BallsOfaKiwi]

I'm not a huge fan of Zelensky, but I don't think he has much in common with Hitler. For one thing, Hitler was the aggressor. For another, the front in this war has hardly moved in the last year, whereas the walls were definitely closing on Hitler when he ended himself.

What does his aggressor status have to do with why he's unable to accept defeat?