GPUs & CPUs & Enthusiast hardware: Questions, Discussion and fanboy slap-fights - Nvidia & AMD & Intel - Separe but Equal. Intel rides in the back of the bus.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but if you look up "AMD Ryzen hot temperature" then naturally the results will be about such.
there are basically no results for the 1000 or 2000 series and similar search terms for intel CPUs bring up posts by people who are overclocking
How high is high? I thought my 5900x runs high at ~40C tctl at idle but that's apparently normal. When doing stress test, it barely tops out at 80C tctl running on a Scythe Ninja 5.
it depends on your room temperature? people rarely agree on what should be considered high, 90c is the limit according to AMD so you're fine
 
My 7800X3D tops out at 77 degrees while doing all core stuff, and that's with a low profile top-down 92mm Noctua in cramped Fractal Terra case.
It doesn't boost as high as its siblings, but it works fine. I even got it to post with a kit which der8auer was skeptical it could POST with, that is 2x48GB @6400MT CL32.
 
Most people freak out when their processor reaches 50C on idle which is literally nothing, so googling such stuff is often pointless. I realized that when I moved over to tiny cases and read post after post of people freaking out at (harmless) temperatures. These components can take it, as long as they're not literally overheating (as in, out-of-spec) they can sit close to the border for ages and it doesn't bother them a bit. By the time it *might* (maybe) become an issue they're in some retro computer collector's collection. In my line of work I came across many an electrical component or even computer that's been sitting at a comfy 70-90C for years and years and years. Just because it's hot for you doesn't mean it's hot for them. I feel it's probably more dangerous for anything that has BGA-soldered stuff to rapidly heat up and cool down all the time.

Apropos tiny cases, I bought this tiny NAS case and it's the oddest put together thing I've ever seen. Screws absolutely everywhere and it was obviously designed to be put together by very low-skilled labor. It has a lot of the typical chinisms in design and quality control but is overall pretty ok. If you only put one or two harddrives into it the case is too light and will vibrate like a shitty washing machine. Three seems the sweet spot with the drives I have where the rotation of the platters is outweighed by the combined weight of the drives and case itself. There were attempts to vibrate-proof it but they're kinda half-assed. This is one of the first cases I've seen in forever where the Power LED actually doesn't need to be replaced/modified but is actually at an appropriate, non retina-burning brightness and diffuse. Then they went ahead and ruined it with SMD LEDs on the hotswap PCB that burn brighter than a thousand suns. Since they're way in the case you can just see them randomly flashing through the front and when I hotplugged a drive for the first time I actually thought there was a bright spark on connection because the 10000000 lumen blue activity LED came on for a split-second. The fan is shit too and if you wanna replace it with a sane one you need some low profile fan that probably costs a third of the case.

I'll also throw in a low-profile Quad port NIC and should have a pretty nice server/router.
 
By the time it *might* (maybe) become an issue they're in some retro computer collector's collection. In my line of work I came across many an electrical component or even computer that's been sitting at a comfy 70-90C for years and years and years. Just because it's hot for you doesn't mean it's hot for them.

Yeah, this is exactly it - your parts aren't going to get hot enough to break unless you do something retarded. I have a Dragon Canyon NUC, and I got the i9 version, so it's not got a ton of space to dissipate heat. The case's firmware defaults to keeping things quiet and the fans off as much as possible. With purely natural convection, it idles at around 55C. If I force the fans on, it stays around 40 C. When the fans kick on under load, they keep the CPU down to around 85 C.

There's nothing wrong with having a giant cooler for dick-waving purposes (I'm not judging, I got the i9 solely because more cores makes you a better person) but if you're a typical consumer, you probably don't need it.
 
Yeah. And if something gets too hot, then most processors/GPUs will slow themselves down to create less heat.
If it really gets too hot, then the system itself'll shut off.

For me, I've always gone by 90 C being on the higher end. I wouldn't panic, but I'd keep a bit of an eye on it. If it's 100 C, then I'm going to start checking to see if some program's gone "I NEED ALL THE CORES. ALL. THE. CORES."

The highest I've seen was 106 C, but that was an older system with a dodgy fan, and was replaced shortly after.

On the Mac side, I use TG Pro, which is a nice little thing that keeps an eye on the internal sensors, including current and max recorded temperatures. You can adjust the fan settings with it, but I jsut use it to keep an eye on temps.
 
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In my line of work I came across many an electrical component or even computer that's been sitting at a comfy 70-90C for years and years and years. Just because it's hot for you doesn't mean it's hot for them.
That makes sense when Mercedes stuffs their ECUs between the V of their V8s and plumbs them with an elaborate water cooling loop connected to the car's cooling system that runs at ~95C.
 
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The case's firmware defaults to keeping things quiet and the fans off as much as possible. With purely natural convection, it idles at around 55C. If I force the fans on, it stays around 40 C. When the fans kick on under load, they keep the CPU down to around 85 C.
That's a huge thing with many of the recent processors, (SoCs really, nobody really does discrete CPUs anymore) you can actually define a long term and burst TDP for them, so you can make sure they stay inside a specific thermal envelope and the system can intelligently decide itself where to sacrifice performance to stay inside the defined TDP, probably down to instruction level. That's a cool and greatly overlooked feature. A lot of real use these SoCs see is doing intense bouts of processing in short bursts, sustained high loads do happen, but they're not common for the average user. So with the right themal envelope set you can have a fairly high TDP SoC even in a system which doesn't have the strongest cooling as RAPL etc. will limit the processor before overheating happens (and significantly slows down the SoC) and you will still walk away with subjectively superior performance compared to a lower-end processor which has a lower TDP. Of course this also makes benchmarks worse so tons of x86 mobile OEMs don't bother using it and rather rely on thermal limiting to not damage the machine, not caring if users drive on thermal handbrake outside of these benchmarks. (Also contrary to most semiconductors you find in these machines, the batteries actually really don't like the heat) Reason #3943993 mobile x86 OEMs will never catch up to Apple. Again, the hardware can do it but the firmware implementation is shit. Luckily you can set these limitations from the OS even on the fly but I'm not sure many people are aware of this. You could even make different usage profiles for this, e.g. low-TDP fanless operation for normal desktop usage, higher TDPs for CPU intensive gaming etc.. yet It's rarely used. It makes sense to do this at the firmware level as pretty much all x86 OSes are awful at truly rationing how much CPU time a program is allowed to take. Even more baffling consdering that power consumption in these ICs is never linear but usually raises dramatically at the very upper end of the speed rating.

But well, cooling is a giant industry in this DIY market. These massive heatsinks also just look cool. Never mind that it'd probably literally be cheaper to just burn out your SoC (which realistically, will never happen anyways) and replace it after four years than to buy a $200+ cooling solution. The only thing I am really willing to shell money out for is quality fans so I don't get drowned in noise. (They're also a long time investment, good fans basically last forever) That said, with a huge heatsink and intelligent RAPL settings, you could probably reach good desktop performance at low to off fan settings with the right SoC.

That makes sense when Mercedes stuffs their ECUs between the V of their V8s and plumbs them with an elaborate water cooling loop connected to the car's cooling system that runs at ~95C.
Cooling with air is kinda difficult in some environments because air can be difficult to direct and carries the nastiest shit which will end up caking your components in an insulating layer (and/or your filters) and plugging up your cooling system. Even if you cool with hot water it's just a lot more consistent *if* your system is good.

If they wanted to make air cooling a lot more efficient in desktop systems they'd include tunneling to direct the air. Some old desktop OEMs in the 00s had this. The modern cases don't have this because you gotta have a window to see the rainbow lights on your RAM and it doesn't look nearly as cool as a huge Noctua heatsink.
 
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If they wanted to make air cooling a lot more efficient in desktop systems they'd include tunneling to direct the air. Some old desktop OEMs in the 00s had this. The modern cases don't have this because you gotta have a window to see the rainbow lights on your RAM and it doesn't look nearly as cool as a huge Noctua heatsink.

It's kind of crazy to me how PCs have been around for 40 years, and their cooling solution still amounts to "spew hot air into a box and put exhaust fans on the box." There's very little actual engineering in computer cooling. One notable exception is Sony, who's had fairly sophisticated design since the PS3. I think the reason PC manufacturers just make a giant hotbox is it's cheap. A pair of engineers and the software they need to make a sophisticated cooling solution will add about $500K/yr to your overhead. Let's say you're selling a case + cooling solution for $300. Typical profit margin is around 6%, so $18 per unit. You need to sell 28,000 additional units over what you would have sold with just the "hotbox + lotsa fans" approach to justify doing anything smart.
 
But well, cooling is a giant industry in this DIY market. These massive heatsinks also just look cool
Honestly the cool factor is why I want the noctua. It seems by all accounts to handle the heat well, AND it looks like a sci-fi radiator. I really can't complain too much
 
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35-45C idle is normal on Ryzen. They run a little hotter.

I have had a couple cases of people running 70C+ regularly that was due to bloatware, an MSI Center case recently.
Yeah, Ryzen runs hotter and uses more power at idle because the chiplet design requires it. I see ~30 watts on idle, but rarely go over 55 when gaming, shit is efficient.
Imagine what Intel could do if they didn't blast power at the problem until heat death of the universe.
 
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Cooling with air is kinda difficult in some environments because air can be difficult to direct and carries the nastiest shit which will end up caking your components in an insulating layer (and/or your filters) and plugging up your cooling system. Even if you cool with hot water it's just a lot more consistent *if* your system is good.

If they wanted to make air cooling a lot more efficient in desktop systems they'd include tunneling to direct the air. Some old desktop OEMs in the 00s had this. The modern cases don't have this because you gotta have a window to see the rainbow lights on your RAM and it doesn't look nearly as cool as a huge Noctua heatsink.
That's why when looking at some German cars that have the transmission cooler plumbed in with the engine's cooling system, I thought wow what a stupid design. Tranny fluid could leak if the liquid to liquid heat exchanger fails and on top of that the system runs so hot. When you then consider that the car would be sold in different markets from the coldness of Russia to the blistering heat of the middle east, the cooling system makes sense granted nothing breaks.
 
That's why when looking at some German cars that have the transmission cooler plumbed in with the engine's cooling system, I thought wow what a stupid design. Tranny fluid could leak if the liquid to liquid heat exchanger fails and on top of that the system runs so hot. When you then consider that the car would be sold in different markets from the coldness of Russia to the blistering heat of the middle east, the cooling system makes sense granted nothing breaks.
I'm pretty sure it's all plumbed together to help get everything up to operational temp quicker for emission reasons. Same with oil coolers on motorcycles that don't have overheating issues if you bypass it.
 
Well it's official. Got my 12700k cpu ordered for today. Once I get the fan, it'll be enough for boot up until I get the GPU.
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I'm so excited bros like you wouldn't believe.

Edit: snagged the fans and cooler. It's ready to be built. I've decided the GPU can wait until I save more. I'm thinking a 4070 super the more I look at it. Now that it can boot because of the iGPU, I can save long term for a good card.
 
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dafuk is the "CEC 2019 ready" setting in my bios?
According to Gigabyte's manual it "Allows you to select whether to allow the system to adjust power consumption when it is in shutdown, idle, or standby state in order to comply with the CEC (California Energy Commission) 2019 Standards." From what I can tell, it enables all the Platform Power Management options and adds the CPU package states C2 and C3.
Also, Google is a thing.
 
In this thread's humble opinion, is there a point to VR right now or is it just a big toy/gimmick? Every now and then I'm tempted due to like, one or two things, but overall it seems expensive and like you need a fairly good dedicated area to do it versus my cramped home office.
 
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In this thread's humble opinion, is there a point to VR right now or is it just a big toy/gimmick? Every now and then I'm tempted due to like, one or two things, but overall it seems expensive and like you need a fairly good dedicated area to do it versus my cramped home office.
I have a Samsung Odyssey which is going to become a paperweight, and honestly I'd say it's still pretty much just a gimmick. Maybe the Apple Vision Pro will change things but i doubt it.
 
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