Nintendo Switch (Currently Plagued) - Here we shit post about the new Nintendo console, The Switch

[Celebrate Nite]

Which is why it got a sequel, a sort-of remake and is included in compilations all the damn time!

Shit games get sequels all the time. No one asked for more Bubsy and yet it got an obscure Jaguar game, a sequel on SNES/Genesis and GameBoy, a PS1 game that controlls like ass, and two mediocre new games on next-gen consoles and PC.

Also Ecco is practially Sega's IP (even though it didn't develope it). It's right up there with Space Harrier and OutRun, of course they're gonna stick it in compilations.

 

[Two Dollars]

Ecco is the quintessential “oh yeah, that exists” game. Everyone who’s remotely familiar with the Genesis has probably at least turned the game on, but only a few people actually like it.

 

[Baraka Obama]

Switch joycons and Vita sticks both are poor for games requiring precise input. I notice the difference immediately going to docked with a normal controller or using a the giant HORI joycon replacements instead. It's not a skill issue, it's an issue of tiny fucking sticks.

 

[whatever I feel like]

Ecco is one of those "at least level 1 is fun" games.

 

[Pissmaster]

This talk about Switch's Joy-con buttons being too small reminds me of an irony I experienced: The N64 controller fit like a glove when I was a kid, and now it's too small for me. So I ended up getting way better at games later in life, but that's canceled out because I can't use the N64's stick comfortably anymore. It's a big hand issue. And you know what they say about big hands! Big hands, big controllers!

 

[skykiii]

Ecco is the quintessential “oh yeah, that exists” game. Everyone who’s remotely familiar with the Genesis has probably at least turned the game on, but only a few people actually like it.

And yet, Ecco does have a lot going for it. For me my favorite part is the... story? lore?... all the weird shit going on in those games. It's no wonder some people count it as an honorary horror game because yeah, sometimes its just whack.

Also honestly, the mechanics work fine, its the level design that is atrocious--a fan mod or a remake that removes the bullshit (no more insta-crush deaths) would probably make it shine.

And it kinda says a lot that it is one of the things (I hate the term "IP" because I'm a human being, not a corporate robot) that Sega uses to identify itself with. Whenever you get SNES re-releases, its... Zelda, Mario, Kirby.... gee I wonder how Nintendo go the reputation for being the kiddy company who makes games that are only fun if you've literally never played a game before? It is SUCH a mystery!

Yeah sorry I had to revive the 16-bit wars for a moment, and to be fair Sega's ability to be weird was also what led to their downfall (hello, 32X!). Still I will always prefer the weird guy--whose games are usually still actually fun--over Nintendo, whose games are usually "just okay" but get astroturfed so heavily that for some reason every shitty Zelda game is considered a classic or an overlooked gem when most of them got a "meh" reaction on initial release and before BOTW, the last one anyone cared about was Ocarina of Time.

EDIT: Back to Ecco, I said earlier I would like a remake... the problem is I fear they would take out the good part--all the weird shit.

This talk about Switch's Joy-con buttons being too small reminds me of an irony I experienced: The N64 controller fit like a glove when I was a kid, and now it's too small for me. So I ended up getting way better at games later in life, but that's canceled out because I can't use the N64's stick comfortably anymore. It's a big hand issue. And you know what they say about big hands! Big hands, big controllers!

Yeah this is pretty much why I don't use the default joycons.

The N64 controller and the Gamecube controller are still great to my hands though... tho in the Cube's case I hated the D-pad, but there's only a few retro compilations where that's a relevant complaint (well, that and maybe Resident Evil Zero).

 

[Pissmaster]

The N64 controller and the Gamecube controller are still great to my hands though... tho in the Cube's case I hated the D-pad, but there's only a few retro compilations where that's a relevant complaint (well, that and maybe Resident Evil Zero).

Yeah, Gamecube feels good to me, still, except for the D-pad. I think Gamecube actually has my favorite stick. It feels nice and the octagonal gating is terrific, and it's crazy to me that it's not a standard thing in most sticks.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

I didn’t know it took you three whole seconds to move your thumb a quarter of an inch.

Just say you don't know what you're talking about, it's not a big deal, it's better that you're not autistic enough to know about optimal Smash play. Luckily I don't care either, but I still know about it, so I'm at least one degree more autistic than you are

And are we really doing the "all valid issues can be explained as a skill issue" thing?

I blame Demon Souls for the proliferation of "git gud" mentality, it existed ever since the days of NES Hard but really became a cancerous meme thanks to FromSoft.

To be honest Ninja Gaiden really isn't either

I don't believe a single person doesn't find Ninja Gaiden hard unless they mastered the game through repetition, if you just hand the controller to somebody they're probably going to find it hard.

It's not a skill issue, it's an issue of tiny fucking sticks.

I don't even think it's that, because I had no problem with Vita's tiny sticks, doing fairly well in games requiring a significant degree of precision, like Killzone.

There's something about the actual function of Switch's inputs (which extends to the dpad) that is mechanically flawed or is a software issue regarding input, because it is not very accurate, nor is the dpad, and there's a bit of discussion on the issue if you look around. It registers a shit ton of accidental diagonals.

 

[Two Dollars]

Just say you don't know what you're talking about, it's not a big deal, it's better that you're not autistic enough to know about optimal Smash play. Luckily I don't care either, but I still know about it, so I'm at least one degree more autistic than you are

In case you didn’t notice, a Smash Box (which I already knew about, thank you very much) and a Switch/Gamecube/etc controller aren’t the same thing.

But sure, let’s pretend for a moment that competitive Smash fans aren’t extremely autistic, and that a stick being too uncomfortable for tilts is a sentiment shared by more than 0.01% of players. How are you going to map the four different tilt attacks to a Switch controller, let alone a Gamecube controller with fewer buttons? If you remove all duplicate actions, you’re left with one trigger, one shoulder button, one face button, Select, and throw in the second shoulder button if you want to grab/throw items using Shield+Attack instead of a dedicated button. And if you really hate yourself, throw in R3. I would include the d-pad and L3, but there’s no way those would be acceptable if even moving your thumb against the left stick takes more effort than you’re willing to spend (you’d also lose taunts).

You can’t possibly argue in good faith that mapping four different tilts to those remaining mismatched buttons is easier and more intuitive than simply pressing a direction and A.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

In case you didn’t notice, a Smash Box (which I already knew about, thank you very much) and a Switch/Gamecube/etc controller aren’t the same thing.

They don't have to be. The conversation was about remapping controls, regarding which you said it is possible to "remap most controls, if not all". I pointed out that you can't, because @skykiii can't use the dpad to move like he wants, and I can't apply tilts to buttons.

Then you shifted from saying you can remap controls to criticizing how we want to remap them. In your opinion you mentioned "how borderline unplayable Smash would feel with a d-pad" and that you "can’t imagine why you’d ever want to map each tilt to its own individual button" because that "sounds terrible". I bring up the Smash Box because while you can think alternative control schemes are bad, not everyone agrees, including some professional players.

So instead of insisting it's "100% a skill issue" when I talk about stick travel and going on about how it's irrelevant, you should just admit you're wrong. It exists, and sticks are just inherently less accurate and fast than buttons. That's why Smash Box exists and it's why I wanted to remap the controls, so no, they don't have to be the same thing to illustrate my point.

let’s pretend for a moment that competitive Smash fans aren’t extremely autistic

Impossible!

You can’t possibly argue in good faith that mapping four different tilts to those remaining mismatched buttons is easier and more intuitive than simply pressing a direction and A.

As I originally said, I didn't even really mess with the remapping menu, let alone put any thought or practice into finding what feels most intuitive, so I really don't know. But the fact is it would be faster and more accurate, even if it came at the expense of intuitive input, which is less important because you can get used to it.

 

[Two Dollars]

They don't have to be. The conversation was about remapping controls, regarding which you said it is possible to "remap most controls, if not all". I pointed out that you can't, because @skykiii can't use the dpad to move like he wants, and I can't apply tilts to buttons.

Fine, you can remap most buttons and the actions that are mapped to those buttons. Happy?

Then you shifted from saying you can remap controls to criticizing how we want to remap them. In your opinion you mentioned "how borderline unplayable Smash would feel with a d-pad" and that you "can’t imagine why you’d ever want to map each tilt to its own individual button" because that "sounds terrible". I bring up the Smash Box because while you can think alternative control schemes are bad, not everyone agrees, including some professional players.

The original point was about an alternative control scheme, not an alternative controller. No shit a controller that has more buttons and is designed with one specific game in mind is going to have a dedicated input for every single possible action, mapped out in just the right way that one specific game will be comfortable to one specific subset of players. The official controllers that nearly everyone will actually use don’t have that luxury.

As I originally said, I didn't even really mess with the remapping menu, let alone put any thought or practice into finding what feels most intuitive, so I really don't know.

Then why are you arguing about this in the first place? How can you complain that the remapping options are lackluster if you didn’t even try them? I prefer performing tilts the original intended way, but the option to map them to the right stick is there, and it’s what most people use from what I’ve seen.

But the fact is it would be faster and more accurate, even if it came at the expense of intuitive input, which is less important because you can get used to it.

Yes, it would be faster if the Switch controllers had a set of four additional buttons that could be used for tilts. But they don’t.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Fine, you can remap most buttons and the actions that are mapped to those buttons. Happy?

Ecstatic.

The original point was about an alternative control scheme, not an alternative controller.

But since you can't actually remap controls how you want, whether you think it's comfortable or not being irrelevant, I brought up a controller which does offer such options to point out that not only is it a viable way to control the game, it's arguably optimal but just isn't allowed on Switch.

No shit a controller that has more buttons and is designed with one specific game in mind is going to have a dedicated input for every single possible action, mapped out in just the right way that one specific game will be comfortable to one specific subset of players.

Uh, you wouldn't need any extra buttons to control the character with buttons instead of a stick bud... And you conceded that, albeit likely awkwardly at first, you could remap tilts too. You don't necessarily need any extra buttons, though a 6 button controller would be much better (I had a very good one for PS3).

Then why are you arguing about this in the first place?

You should be asking yourself that question. I concurred with another user about how remapping should be possible, and you came in saying it is (it really isn't very versatile, as assumed), and now you're mad.

How can you complain that the remapping options are lackluster if you didn’t even try them?

You confirmed my suspicion, I figured they wouldn't let you get too creative with it. Sorry for being right, I guess...?

I prefer performing tilts the original intended way, but the option to map them to the right stick is there, and it’s what most people use from what I’ve seen.

That's not ideal for me, but it might be an improvement nonetheless, I'll try it. Doing smash attacks is easy enough with a direction and attack, so that could mitigate the issues I have.

Yes, it would be faster if the Switch controllers had a set of four additional buttons that could be used for tilts. But they don’t.

I mean, jump redundantly takes up two of the face buttons when it's already mapped to Up, and I can't remember off the top of my head, but aren't the L1/R1 & R1/R2 inputs just mirrored, and thus half being redundant there too? That appears to be 4 available inputs if I'm correct. That doesn't even factor in the clunkier L3/R3 inputs, or the potential extra 2 buttons on a 3rd party 6-button controller (assuming Switch can use unofficial controllers, idk, never tried it).

Maybe we should just be allowed to use whatever controllers and remapping we want in 2024? Just a thought.

 

[skykiii]

and that a stick being too uncomfortable for tilts is a sentiment shared by more than 0.01% of players. How are you going to map the four different tilt attacks to a Switch controller, let alone a Gamecube controller with fewer buttons?

FWIW my argument (which is what started this whole diss course) was never that it was "uncomfortable." It was that its too easy to do the wrong move by accident.

You ask "how would you handle tilt attacks, then?" My question is.... why are they in the game at all? I can legit not think of any instance where I would rather do a tilt attack over a normal direction + button attack. They seem purpose-driven just to give you another thing that can go wrong.

(you’d also lose taunts).

Oh how devastating, surely I could never overcome such a great loss.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

My question is.... why are they in the game at all? I can legit not think of any instance where I would rather do a tilt attack over a normal direction + button attack.

They are typically faster than a smash attack, and sometimes have useful properties for stuff like juggling, it's about utility. Smash attacks are typically reserved as finishers, punishes, etc.

Oh how devastating, surely I could never overcome such a great loss.

They are pretty fun, but you can just remap those to some input you'd never use and not lose them anyway, you don't need easy access to them.

 

[Two Dollars]

But since you can't actually remap controls how you want, whether you think it's comfortable or not being irrelevant, I brought up a controller which does offer such options to point out that not only is it a viable way to control the game, it's arguably optimal but just isn't allowed on Switch.

Once again, I’m not talking about alternate controllers. I’m talking about the official controller. Alternate controllers are completely irrelevant to this discussion.

Uh, you wouldn't need any extra buttons to control the character with buttons instead of a stick bud...

I never said you would, only that it would go against the game’s initial idea of being able to perform different attacks by flicking the stick at different rates. Not that this is at all relevant to tilts, which were the thing you initially complained about before trying to move the goalposts with d-pad movement. You would, however, need additional buttons to map every single possible action to its own dedicated button.

And you conceded that, albeit likely awkwardly at first, you could remap tilts too.

I never said you couldn’t remap tilts at all, just that you can’t remap them to buttons. I even recommended this exact remap as a solution to your problem. Reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit, is it?

You confirmed my suspicion, I figured they wouldn't let you get too creative with it. Sorry for being right, I guess...?

So you’re just going to plug your ears and go “lalala I can’t hear you” when someone suggests a fix to your problem? But yes, they only implemented remappable controls to the extent that 99.99% of players would be fully comfortable with it. Shame on them.

I mean, jump redundantly takes up two of the face buttons when it's already mapped to Up, and I can't remember off the top of my head, but aren't the L1/R1 & R1/R2 inputs just mirrored, and thus half being redundant there too? That appears to be 4 available inputs if I'm correct. That doesn't even factor in the clunkier L3/R3 inputs, or the potential extra 2 buttons on a 3rd party 6-button controller (assuming Switch can use unofficial controllers, idk, never tried it).

I just explained all of this. As I already said, there are indeed 4+ spare buttons on the Switch controller, but they’re different kinds of buttons in different places. But hey, if you want to map left tilt to the L trigger, down tilt to L3, and right tilt to Y, then more power to you I guess. Also, >tap jump
And yes, the Switch is surprisingly generous with third-party controllers. Not PC generous, but much more so than any other console from the last decade.

Anyway, I’m tapping out. I can only try to correct this level of autistic sperging for so long. I’m not here to tell you how to play a game, just that you shouldn’t act like the thing you’re complaining about is some game-breaking design flaw when almost no one cares about or would even consider it.

 

[Too Many Catgirls]

All this whining about Smash 'em Up and none of you mentioned octagonal restrictor gates.

AMATEURS!! AWOOOOO~~

 

[Baraka Obama]

And yes, the Switch is surprisingly generous with third-party controllers. Not PC generous, but much more so than any other console from the last decade.

Generous or the 3rd party ecosystem is just really good for it. I guess it helps they don't lock things down as hard as PS4/5 and XB1/Series.

Switch Pro Controller maps became a default for a lot of other accessories, it's the easiest to use with 8bitdo retro receivers for example.

The customizability is the best part though. In any given game I can choose to use a Famicom or NES controller, SNES controller, Genesis pad / 8bitdo M30 / Saturn controller, an N64 controller, a GameCube controller (or a HORI Digital Pad even) or similar modern USB options, a standard Switch Pro controller or any similar knockoffs, two Joycons freeform, one joycon on its own (great for VNs), or an arcade stick (also great for VNs).

 

[Betonhaus]

Oh god when will the atustic SSB screeching about joysticks be over with???

 

[skykiii]

All this whining about Smash 'em Up and none of you mentioned octagonal restrictor gates.

AMATEURS!! AWOOOOO~~

Dr. Octagonalpus is in the house!

They are typically faster than a smash attack, and sometimes have useful properties for stuff like juggling, it's about utility. Smash attacks are typically reserved as finishers, punishes, etc.

Yeah but you can do direction + A without needing it to be a smash anyway, so that's already easy enough to do.

Oh god when will the atustic SSB screeching about joysticks be over with???

Hopefully the question I ask below will change the subject.

.............................

Oh, in good news, Arcade Archives finally did their own release of Super Contra! I know there was that one Konami compilation that had it, but I'm sure AA's is better.

It's weird tho that there's no setting for unlimited continues like the first Contra had, unless its an unlockable.

For some reason when I woke up this morning I was thinking about Breath of the Wild again.

Kiwis.... I feel like it being so much later makes it a fine time to ask, what did you think of Tears of the Kingdom? Do you still agree with whatever thoughts you had months ago or what?

 

[Two Dollars]

Oh god when will the atustic SSB screeching about joysticks be over with???

Hey, I said I was tapping out. Besides, there’s something much more important happening: the F-Zero 99 update added a secret track that combines Death Wind and White Land into an amalgamation, including their music. It seems fun, I hope they do more stuff like this.