George RR Martin, his fanboys, and former fanbase

[TheHarbinger]

That was published back in 1996 (oof), and it was a different time. People understood that the tragedy of Dany's character was that she was sold this young to fulfil the delusions of her insane brother. In any case, any positive reaction of her was her coping to survive, not to say that her situation was much better than the average Essos girl. Getting fucked by a nice savage made her a "Queen" and that was better than being kidnapped by the savages to be sold as a prostitute for the rest of her life.

No way you read the books in 1996. The consensus was that the scene was a failed attempt at a male fatass blob like GRRM trying to write some Penthouse forum level tale of "hot romance". Everyone was grossed out and the sex scenes were brushed off as just typical male power fantasies. It was clearly a horned up old man writing erotic fan fiction. GRRM's sex scenes have always been received with revulsion. A huge amount of people dismissing ASOIAF before HBO made Game of Thrones were specifically because of the graphic sex scenes. You can tell that the new book readers who came from the HBO show were shocked at how often there are perverted sex scenes in the books.

In the books and the show she is never raped. She just doesn't like the sex position that her husband forces on her. So she seduces him so she can ride on top. It was Emilia Clarke who misinterpreted the perversion in the script and filmed it like a rape scene. But the scripts have it as consensual sex the entire time. And in the book the sex position change is portrayed as this empowering moment for Dany where she is now equal to Drogo. It's all a very weird incel creep fantasy that GRRM clearly gets off on writing. Drogo literally gets Dany to consent to sex on their wedding night. But in the HBO show the actress for Dany reacted like it was rape and it created a revisionist version of the book scene.

Now, you have people saying "you can't write that! it's exploitation!!!" despite, yes, it's exploitation and it's meant to be portrayed as such and just because Dany tried to make the best of her situation, it doesn't mean the author agrees with the situation being positive.

GRRM never wrote it as exploitation. The ASOIAF fandom is infested by weirdos who have taken GRRM's already terrible prose and writing and turned him from the next Tolkien into the next MLKjr. or some virtue signalling freak. They think that Dany is some female empowerment fantasy. Same with Arya. Hence the "slay queen!!!" cheers from the hair-dyed dykes at that bar that were in those reaction videos.

The revisionism in ASOIAF is massive. Think about this example. Originally Targaryens were all White and pale with purple and blue eyes. Now? They are niggers. Literally half of them in House of the Dragons are flat out dark skinned niggers. What the fans say about the show now is so warped by social justice fags and politics that they are literally willing to contradict and destroy the entire lore and series just to shove niggers and fag characters and rape and female empowerment into the series.

 

[God of Nothing]

In the books and the show she is never raped. She just doesn't like the sex position that her husband forces on her. So she seduces him so she can ride on top. It was Emilia Clarke who misinterpreted the perversion in the script and filmed it like a rape scene. But the scripts have it as consensual sex the entire time. And in the book the sex position change is portrayed as this empowering moment for Dany where she is now equal to Drogo. It's all a very weird incel creep fantasy that GRRM clearly gets off on writing. Drogo literally gets Dany to consent to sex on their wedding night. But in the HBO show the actress for Dany reacted like it was rape and it created a revisionist version of the book scene.

lol
lmao
this is the funniest shit

 

[Blue Gem Kosher Queen]

Imagine giving a fuck about HOTD about anything other than the Muppet Tullys.

 

[God of Nothing]

Muppet Tullys.

I haven't been watching because I'm not retarded enough to think anymore of GRRM's stuff is good. Can you explain it to me?

 

[draggs]

Winds is taking so long because George types one-handed and when he's done no more typing until his refractory period ends

 

[IAmNotAlpharius]

Winds is taking so long because George types one-handed and when he's done no more typing until his refractory period ends

What he’s doing with the other hand would explain a lot.

 

[Blue Gem Kosher Queen]

I haven't been watching because I'm not retarded enough to think anymore of GRRM's stuff is good. Can you explain it to me?

I'm glad you ask. It isn't a secret that GRRM wears his influences in his sleeves and as such the world of ASOIAF is full of references to shit he likes or finds amusing. The obvious examples are Bloodraven being based on Moorcock's Elric of Melnibone, House Dayne drawing from Marvel's Dane Whitman and all the Lovecraft world building in Essos and the Deep Ones that are namedropped as is in ASOIAF. There are also nods to other writers. Robert Jordan has three (a house, its lord and a maester), one of the twats that humiliates Brienne gets a Harry Potter mark, Phyllis Eisenstein's Alaric gets to be a bard.
Then there are the more out there examples like Belicho, George's way of immortalizing the 2007 New England Patriots. Three Bracken guys that helped Catelyn take Tyrion as prisoner are the Three Stooges. House Wyl of Boneway has a black adder in its coat of arms and you probably already guessed what that is a nod to.
But out of all the references George has made the one that has drawn the most ire from the ASOIAF purists that think the story is all grimndark are the Muppet Tullys. It explains itself.

Two other facts:
1. Kermit Tully is described as being "greener than grass."
2. His younger bro is named Oscar and alongside Benjicot Blackwood they form the Lads, three young Riverland lords that side with the Blacks.

 

[God of Nothing]

I'm glad you ask. It isn't a secret that GRRM wears his influences in his sleeves and as such the world of ASOIAF is full of references to shit he likes or finds amusing. The obvious examples are Bloodraven being based on Moorcock's Elric of Melnibone, House Dayne drawing from Marvel's Dane Whitman and all the Lovecraft world building in Essos and the Deep Ones that are namedropped as is in ASOIAF. There are also nods to other writers. Robert Jordan has three (a house, its lord and a maester), one of the twats that humiliates Brienne gets a Harry Potter mark, Phyllis Eisenstein's Alaric gets to be a bard.
Then there are the more out there examples like Belicho, George's way of immortalizing the 2007 New England Patriots. Three Bracken guys that helped Catelyn take Tyrion as prisoner are the Three Stooges. House Wyl of Boneway has a black adder in its coat of arms and you probably already guessed what that is a nod to.
But out of all the references George has made the one that has drawn the most ire from the ASOIAF purists that think the story is all grimndark are the Muppet Tullys. It explains itself.
View attachment 5683719
Two other facts:
1. Kermit Tully is described as being "greener than grass."
2. His younger bro is named Oscar and alongside Benjicot Blackwood they form the Lads, three young Riverland lords that fight for the Blacks.

oh god
i have no idea how it took me so long to realize it

GRRM is a fucking fanfic writer.

 

[Vecr]

oh god
i have no idea how it took me so long to realize it

GRRM is a fucking fanfic writer.

He got started in the 1960s/1970s Sci-Fi and fantasy fan communities, it's been obvious to me for a long time. ASOIAF is what fan culture as a whole thinks fiction should be, leading to many of its various problems.

 

[God of Nothing]

He got started in the 1960s/1970s Sci-Fi and fantasy fan communities, it's been obvious to me for a long time. ASOIAF is what fan culture as a whole thinks fiction should be, leading to many of its various problems.

I understand everything now, goddamn: grimderpness, shitty sex scenes, too many sex scenes, plot contrivances, "smartest" character is the author's self-insert, retarded portrayal of "realism" in a world with fucking magic, a complete misunderstanding of how a feudal society actually functions despite it being the main focus, and retarded perfect societies that only exist because of the stupid conditions the writer allows to exist (fucking island monastery surrounded by whirlpools and the fucking North).

It's so obvious. Either I forgot about this or just didn't care enough about the series to analyze it in depth. Fucking hell.

 

[Absolutego]

oh god
i have no idea how it took me so long to realize it

GRRM is a fucking fanfic writer.

Which is especially funny because he has this autistic vendetta against the concept of fanfiction and it's probably why he has an order to burn all his notes in his will, that Random House will almost certainly get into the courts to not respect

 

[>IMPLYING]

He got started in the 1960s/1970s Sci-Fi and fantasy fan communities, it's been obvious to me for a long time. ASOIAF is what fan culture as a whole thinks fiction should be, leading to many of its various problems.

https://grrm.livejournal.com/151914.html

Ironic, since he hates fanfiction.
Edit: Ninja'd

 

[God of Nothing]

Which is especially funny because he has this autistic vendetta against the concept of fanfiction and it's probably why he has an order to burn all his notes in his will, that Random House will almost certainly get into the courts to not respect

https://grrm.livejournal.com/151914.html

Ironic, since he hates fanfiction.
Edit: Ninja'd

it's beautiful

I wouldn't really care if what he produced was good. But, like many other glorified fanfic writers today that only skirt by because their products are "official," it's lackluster. I really don't know what's worse. The fact bad fanfic writing has become mainstream or the fact people who'd laugh at it are eating it up.

 

[Sinner's Sandwich]

It's taking so long because there are so many penis scenes that George doesn't know how to describe them anymore. He has been struggling for years.

 

[ShitLurker]

As retarded as George is at least he isn't Patrick Rothfuss. That nigger raised 32K for his charity in exchange for a chapter of his latest never to be released novel and then just refused to hold up his end of the bargain.

Holy shit! Forgot this cunt existed. So he does a book that has some promise, then writes a second where he dials the gary stuness to a billion. And probably out of shame for publishing such shit, has been unable to write anything for... what, 25 years? Any other funny shit with him.

oh god
i have no idea how it took me so long to realize it

GRRM is a fucking fanfic writer.

LOL

LMAO, even

Another guilty for not getting 2 and 2 together.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

In the books and the show she is never raped. She just doesn't like the sex position that her husband forces on her. So she seduces him so she can ride on top. It was Emilia Clarke who misinterpreted the perversion in the script and filmed it like a rape scene. But the scripts have it as consensual sex the entire time. And in the book the sex position change is portrayed as this empowering moment for Dany where she is now equal to Drogo. It's all a very weird incel creep fantasy that GRRM clearly gets off on writing. Drogo literally gets Dany to consent to sex on their wedding night. But in the HBO show the actress for Dany reacted like it was rape and it created a revisionist version of the book scene.

Their first sexual encounter is creepy af "he was very gentle" and later on they go with Dany feeling empowered for riding him. It's standard male feminist fare.

 

[Mango Cobra]

The rightful bearer of the title "American Tolkien" is Robert Jordan. Change my mind.

I feel somewhat bad for quoting you a year and half after the fact but I'm going to heavily disagree and say that the title of "American Tolkien" belongs to Janny Wurts, who is a prolific fantasy author who has written multiple fantastic door stopper novels and several different series, and co-Authored the Empire Trilogy with Raymond E. Feist as part of his Riftwar book series (The Empire Trilogy is widely regarded as the greatest Trilogy in the Riftwar Cycle) where she manages to do political intrigue, violence, sex and romance 50000% better than G.R.R.M. ever managed to do.

Also when there is a sex scene it's much more tasteful than the graphic porn of Martin - Less is more. Mara (the main protagonist) has three sexual partners in the story and they don't go into super graphic detail beyond mentioning a few key details: Her first husband is clumsy and turns to abusive when she refuses to even engage with him beyond spreading her legs and letting him do what he wants, her second partner is passionate and gentle, and her third partner is also gentle and passionate but also is a literal empath who can tell what she wants before she even knows what she wants.

I read both authors as a teenager (I got them both when I was like 15-16) and I can say without any hesitation that Janny Wurts is the superior author. GURM's novels aged poorly for me and i havent read one of them since Dance of dragons released in 2011 while the last time i read one of Janny Wurts' novels was last year.

Also holy fuck the arrogance of this guy to really try and say "I feel bad about the war in Ukraine and Gaza so thats why I'm not writing guys "

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

"I am famous and I am wealthy and, supposedly, I have a “big platform.” Whatever that is. But I have grown more and more cynical about this supposed “power” that people keep telling me I have. Has anything I have ever written here ever changed a single mind, a single vote? I see no evidence of that. The era of rational discourse seems to have ended."

Late in replying to the original "pity me" post. But I wonder how Martin thinks his work ever had a meaning and moral. No one gives a shit of what he's written besides ASoIaF, and that hasn't had a new book in over a decade. The series itself has the moral characters constantly get fucked over, while any selfish pragmatic characters keep on winning. With the tv show it was worse, it literally had the world ending event be considered less important than who sits on a throne of a dying country, which is pretty appropriate to his post, that says Trump bad and cancel culture bad, but of course doesn't dare criticize the left or any real issue.

If anything, Martin made the world a worse place by having his work used to promote the modern "fuck you got mine" and debauchery.

 

[Absolutego]

Late in replying to the original "pity me" post. But I wonder how Martin thinks his work ever had a meaning and moral. No one gives a shit of what he's written besides ASoIaF, and that hasn't had a new book in over a decade. The series itself has the moral characters constantly get fucked over, while any selfish pragmatic characters keep on winning. With the tv show it was worse, it literally had the world ending event be considered less important than who sits on a throne of a dying country, which is pretty appropriate to his post, that says Trump bad and cancel culture bad, but of course doesn't dare criticize the left or any real issue.

If anything, Martin made the world a worse place by having his work used to promote the modern "fuck you got mine" and debauchery.

The praise he got after that creative fever dream with the first 3 books almost certainly did it. They were calling him the American Tolkien and it took 15 years of him jerking off writing sidequests instead of furthering the story for the fanbase and critics to well and truly give up on him.

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

I feel somewhat bad for quoting you a year and half after the fact but I'm going to heavily disagree and say that the title of "American Tolkien" belongs to Janny Wurts, who is a prolific fantasy author who has written multiple fantastic door stopper novels and several different series, and co-Authored the Empire Trilogy with Raymond E. Feist as part of his Riftwar book series (The Empire Trilogy is widely regarded as the greatest Trilogy in the Riftwar Cycle) where she manages to do political intrigue, violence, sex and romance 50000% better than G.R.R.M. ever managed to do.

Also when there is a sex scene it's much more tasteful than the graphic porn of Martin - Less is more. Mara (the main protagonist) has three sexual partners in the story and they don't go into super graphic detail beyond mentioning a few key details: Her first husband is clumsy and turns to abusive when she refuses to even engage with him beyond spreading her legs and letting him do what he wants, her second partner is passionate and gentle, and her third partner is also gentle and passionate but also is a literal empath who can tell what she wants before she even knows what she wants.

I read both authors as a teenager (I got them both when I was like 15-16) and I can say without any hesitation that Janny Wurts is the superior author. GURM's novels aged poorly for me and i havent read one of them since Dance of dragons released in 2011 while the last time i read one of Janny Wurts' novels was last year.

Also holy fuck the arrogance of this guy to really try and say "I feel bad about the war in Ukraine and Gaza so thats why I'm not writing guys "

Better than Howard, Burroughs, Lovecraft, or Herbert? I realize they didn't all write doorstoppers, but I'm not sure if the "American Tolkien" should map exactly onto the OG, especially since he was very specifically writing with English folklore in mind.

Late in replying to the original "pity me" post. But I wonder how Martin thinks his work ever had a meaning and moral. No one gives a shit of what he's written besides ASoIaF, and that hasn't had a new book in over a decade. The series itself has the moral characters constantly get fucked over, while any selfish pragmatic characters keep on winning. With the tv show it was worse, it literally had the world ending event be considered less important than who sits on a throne of a dying country, which is pretty appropriate to his post, that says Trump bad and cancel culture bad, but of course doesn't dare criticize the left or any real issue.

If anything, Martin made the world a worse place by having his work used to promote the modern "fuck you got mine" and debauchery.

He's the textbook 3edgy5u when it comes to duty, loyalty, etc. I remember seeing a comment once describing his work as the anti-Romance of the Three Kingdoms, a story primarily concerned with the three brothers of the Peach Garden Oath and their unbreakable bonds of honor and loyalty.

Spoiler: Tangent about backstabbing pricks

Interestingly, Romance contains an interesting anecdote about the fate of unreliable schemers: Lu Bu, the most powerful warrior in all of China, approaches Cao Cao and offers him his services. Cao Cao considers it until Liu Bai, who was working with him at the time, points out that regardless of his skills, Lu Bu has betrayed every master he's ever had. So Cao Cao has Lu Bu killed instead.

The moral of the story, kids, is that stabbing people in the back makes other people more liable to stab you in the back. Amoral treachery is inherently unstable because it ultimately betrays and destroys itself.