George RR Martin, his fanboys, and former fanbase

[nikma]

Winds of Winter may come out in 3 or 4 years

There is no way he will be alive in 4 years.

Him seeing the reception of his endings in the HBO series drained his motivation

What motivation? He wasted 8 years before HBO series ended. And then he said that 2020 was actually his most productive year. Maybe he was lying, like always.

What? Endless details for no reason is literally GRRM's entire style. Pages of descriptions of food and cocks and cunts. Sex scenes and defecating scenes and vomiting and urinating. That go nowhere. You think GRRM doesn't just write his creepy porn scenes for anyone but himself?

There is this weird and pathetic cult of personality around GRRM in a small portion of book fan base. I don't get how some people still don't see him as fraud he is after the last two books and 13 years of failure but I guess the first 3 were so strong that people are intentionally delusional.

And all their theories about the books are built on the idea that Dumb and Dumber are evil and want to destroy the show and that they hate GRRM and fans and that Fat Cunt is a poor victim and a true artist in this situation.

Both sides are frauds but at least Dumb and Dumber finished their version and we can move on while Fat Cunt just gave up long time ago and he is constantly lying and manipulating his fan base.

 

[Tasty Tatty]

What? Endless details for no reason is literally GRRM's entire style. Pages of descriptions of food and cocks and cunts. Sex scenes and defecating scenes and vomiting and urinating. That go nowhere. You think GRRM doesn't just write his creepy porn scenes for anyone but himself? He has Jon's entire storyline as being heir to the throne lead to him rejecting it. It's all about misdirection and subverting expectations with GRRM. "Hey remember Jon's parentage.....well Bran had a better story.....see I'm smarter than you and a better writer than Tolkien....now back to cocks and food platters".

Expecting him to have payoff for anything is setting yourself up for major disappointment again with the books just like the show. He is literally going to build Stannis up to kill his daughter and then be unceremoniously killed off and then written out of history. It's the inverse of Denethor and Faramir basically which is another thing GRRM loves to do. Just copy something from Tolkien and invert or change it then shit all over Tolkien in interviews for his fans to cling to like he is a genius.

Danaerys burning King's Landing is his version of the Scouring of the Shire. Almost everyone predicted this on places like Westeros forums or Tower of the Hand before the HBO show was even airing.

Other than GRRM and D&D saying it in interviews. And even Emilia Clarke the actress saying it. You don't need more than that.

There is a clear difference between Martin writing so many food and sex scenes to add "worldbuilding" (which we could like or not) and then having a character named "Pete the Puppykiller" saying he hates puppies and how much he wants to kill puppies and expect that he won't kill puppies.

The reason people say storylines such as Cersei and Dany lead to nowhere is because the books aren't finished so we don't get the payback of the storylines. We know Cersei's children are gonna die, we know she's growing more deranged and vindictive every day, she's not gonna become the character she became in the show where she was tried to change into an yazz queen slaaay type of character. That's not Cersei.

Martin does give you some payback for your investment in characters -yeah, aside from the fact he hasn't finished the books. You see Dany seeing the Red Wedding during a vision, you see Theon dreaming of the Red Wedding after he takes Winterfell. And then the Red Wedding happens. There are a lot of characters with a lot of bits of what they are gonna do, that's the important thing, not what they ate.

 

[>IMPLYING]

I think Martin made the mistake of saying he'd resolve everything in two books, and I think the realisation of how many plot threads he'd need to resolve in a manner which satisfies everyone probably got to him. Shit, he introduced new stuff in A Dance of Dragons whilst there's still shit from books ago which hadn't seen resolutions yet. If he wrote Winds and introduced even more threads, the books would never end. I think he's just plodding along, quasi-retired and waiting to die so the responsibility is no longer on his shoulders to finish the series. I'm fine with that honestly, so long as Sanderson isn't the one to continue it. He's a fucking awful writer, even if he can finish shit and keep it succinct unlike Martin; but I couldn't even finish the first Mistborn book.

 

[Windows 10 Upgrade]

I'm fine with that honestly, so long as Sanderson isn't the one to continue it.

Agree, it grinds my gears when people make references to Brando Sando finishing ASOIAF.

Chad Sanderson would have finished GRRM books in two months.

With no sex scenes, no boobies and everyone turning Mormon there would be about ten pages to finish. Unless creepy porn scene Sanderson is something we need to read?!?!

 

[Amerikaner Teddybär]

I will never find Martin's "critiques" of Tolkien not funny because it shows how much of an inferiority complex Martin has.

 

[Rome's rightful successor]

It's ok to be mad at GRRM.

 

[Amerikaner Teddybär]

You guys think Game of Thrones would've ended a bit better than it did had George finished the book?

 

[God of Nothing]

You guys think Game of Thrones would've ended a bit better than it did had George finished the book?

Are you joking?
The show's ending was obviously a test run for the ending he had in mind.

 

[Dick Mason]

You guys think Game of Thrones would've ended a bit better than it did had George finished the book?

Are you joking?
The show's ending was obviously a test run for the ending he had in mind.

They'd been diverging from the novels for like 4 season at that point. They had book material to work with, and chose to do their own thing instead. Who knows how much of what is what in that final season, other than it was standout terrible.

It's not as if we get the final novel. Unless he comes from a long-living bloodline where they live to 100, we aren't ever seeing it. And even then, he'd have to maintain his mental faculties to handle that, and I have no idea how common that is at that age. Winds of Winter will come, but that's it. I bet its a toss-up to whether we even get that while he's alive. My money is on posthumous publication.

 

[TheHarbinger]

They'd been diverging from the novels for like 4 season at that point.

Only when they absolutely were allowed to though. Things like King Bran, Dany burning down King's Landing, Stannis burning his daughter, Jon killing Dany, Independent North, Tyrion and Sam on the Small Council, and so on. Those all came from GRRM. They changed minor details, like Dany will be pregnant when she is killed in the books (they filmed her pregnant on the show then changed it last second). But nothing major.

Most of their diverging from the book was removing stuff and cutting content. Not necessarily making major changes. I think lots of fans are setting themselves up for extreme disappointment (yet again) when storylines of Stoneheart, Connington, Jaime, and many others amount to absolutely nothing. And the Long Night lasts for a few chapters.

 

[Dick Mason]

Only when they absolutely were allowed to though. Things like King Bran, Dany burning down King's Landing, Stannis burning his daughter, Jon killing Dany, Independent North, Tyrion and Sam on the Small Council, and so on. Those all came from GRRM. They changed minor details, like Dany will be pregnant when she is killed in the books (they filmed her pregnant on the show then changed it last second). But nothing major.

Most of their diverging from the book was removing stuff and cutting content. Not necessarily making major changes. I think lots of fans are setting themselves up for extreme disappointment (yet again) when storylines of Stoneheart, Connington, Jaime, and many others amount to absolutely nothing. And the Long Night lasts for a few chapters.

I'd be happy with just the big battles he cut off from the end of the last novel. Those were one of the cruelest cliffhangers in the history of fiction. That's pretty much all I'm looking forward to.

 

[Laburnum]

I wonder what all the diehards on the ASOIAF forums will do once Martin kicks the bucket. It seems like they've been frozen in time, still discussing lore-related questions or coming up with theories speculating on how plot hooks or events in the series will turn out.

I remember years ago I read some dude's blogpost about what Stannis would do in his opening battle for Winds and went into granular detail about how Stannis is a tactical genius who will come out on top in the North. For sure Martin wouldn't have given it half as much thought.

I don't know how much crossover there is between the way the series ended and Martin's outline for how he wanted to finish it, but at this point I think fans will be incredibly disappointed by what (if anything) he puts out. It's been so long now expectations about where things will go come off as completely delusional, he'd honestly be able to retain a lot more goodwill if he just bluffs about his progress until he dies without finishing the series.

 

[TheHarbinger]

I wonder what all the diehards on the ASOIAF forums will do once Martin kicks the bucket. It seems like they've been frozen in time, still discussing lore-related questions or coming up with theories speculating on how plot hooks or events in the series will turn out.

You will get a few camps of people. Those who cling to GRRM being superior to Tolkien, his true vision never realized, HBO messed everything up. Then the camp of those who want to take his notes and make a fan fiction ending on their own or through a famous fantasy author. And then you will have a group of bitter fans who will resent him leaving things unfinished. Then the last group of those mocking him and his fans and talking about how ASOIAf is a 'flash in the pan' series that was never good in the first place.

But if he doesn't finish the story it will be the last group that will dominate any discussion centered around GRRM as an author. And an ending of ASOIAF that is similar to HBO's version probably won't fare much better. Hence him having zero motivation to do anything other than eat pigslop food and gorge himself to death watching NFL broadcasts.

I remember years ago I read some dude's blogpost about what Stannis would do in his opening battle for Winds and went into granular detail about how Stannis is a tactical genius who will come out on top in the North. For sure Martin wouldn't have given it half as much thought.

Nothing is funner than when you get these elaborate grand mystery box stories like ASOIAF, Attack on Titan, Lost, Mass Effect, and so on. And then the fan theories are like PHD thesis level tomes. And the actual final results from the authors are just lazy and uninspired endings that result in nothing.

Where ASOIAF and GOT fans are working themselves up into a fury with theories about the White Walkers. Only for Arya to end them all with one swing of a dagger after a magical flying leap.

I don't know how much crossover there is between the way the series ended and Martin's outline for how he wanted to finish it, but at this point I think fans will be incredibly disappointed by what (if anything) he puts out. It's been so long now expectations about where things will go come off as completely delusional, he'd honestly be able to retain a lot more goodwill if he just bluffs about his progress until he dies without finishing the series.

Half Life 3 is the only thing I think that can compare at this point. In terms of the procrastinating and delaying of the main story from the authors. While also making a million side projects and entire other new franchises.

 

[God of Nothing]

Then the last group of those mocking him and his fans and talking about how ASOIAf is a 'flash in the pan' series that was never good in the first place.

master race!

Nothing is funner than when you get these elaborate grand mystery box stories like ASOIAF, Attack on Titan, Lost, Mass Effect, and so on. And then the fan theories are like PHD thesis level tomes. And the actual final results from the authors are just lazy and uninspired endings that result in nothing.

That is the perfect way to describe it. JJ Abrams, baby.

 

[Commissar Fuklaw]

The biggest problem he's said was that there wasn't a 5 year gap because of whole lot of 'Remember when...' discussions when he tried.

The simple answer to that issue is he should've just left Arya with the faceless men, Jon at the wall, Dany in Essos et al. off page until they grew into their roles in the story. He could've easily had what's going on in KL, the Riverlands and the Iron Islands continue without their involvement. Just a few 'did you hear what's going on over in X' nods every so often while the timeline moves forward. When it's time for those characters to rejoin on page they would in an organic way instead of a whole bunch of 'who gives a shit' storylines that were written for that gap in mind and now have been forced into an unnatural shape. He did time jumps between chapters in AGOT and could easily pick back up that pace if he wanted to.

 

[Tasty Tatty]

You guys think Game of Thrones would've ended a bit better than it did had George finished the book?

Absolutely. Things would have made sense.

Are you joking?
The show's ending was obviously a test run for the ending he had in mind.

I like the idea that he threw those two fuckers under the bus...

 

[Vecr]

Absolutely. Things would have made sense.

Plausibly, yes. At least fans would have more realistic expectations. Also, TV show writing is usually pretty bad.

I like the idea that he threw those two fuckers under the bus...

I doubt this part, I don't know how the motivations and ability would line up in this case.

 

[draggs]

Only when they absolutely were allowed to though. Things like King Bran, Dany burning down King's Landing, Stannis burning his daughter, Jon killing Dany, Independent North, Tyrion and Sam on the Small Council, and so on. Those all came from GRRM. They changed minor details, like Dany will be pregnant when she is killed in the books (they filmed her pregnant on the show then changed it last second). But nothing major.

Most of their diverging from the book was removing stuff and cutting content. Not necessarily making major changes. I think lots of fans are setting themselves up for extreme disappointment (yet again) when storylines of Stoneheart, Connington, Jaime, and many others amount to absolutely nothing. And the Long Night lasts for a few chapters.

Oh dear Lawd if King Bran and Independent North are all from George, I get the feeling A Dream of Summer would end with Cripple King Bran using his wood magic to fix his wood, marrying Norf FC Queen his sister Sansa, and graphically banging the shit out of her, perpetuating Westeros' royalty all being a bunch of brotherfuckers and sisterfuckers

Don't tell me how insane that is, this is GRRM

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

An issue with the plot is that it has two ending set pieces that don't work together - ruling Westeros and beating the Others. No matter what is solved first it won't work thematically. The only way it can work is having the Others invade Westeros and kill everyone in King's Landing, with Cersei being shanked by an undead Jaime. Alas, such an ending is too cool to make.

Half Life 3 is the only thing I think that can compare at this point. In terms of the procrastinating and delaying of the main story from the authors. While also making a million side projects and entire other new franchises.

Nah, HL only had Alyx VR game, plus no one tries to argue it's high art.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

An issue with the plot is that it has two ending set pieces that don't work together - ruling Westeros and beating the Others. No matter what is solved first it won't work thematically. The only way it can work is having the Others invade Westeros and kill everyone in King's Landing, with Cersei being shanked by an undead Jaime. Alas, such an ending is too cool to make.

The most realistic ending he can tell is "They all died." Because everyone dies at some point.