Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[jeff7989]

How much of a missile defense system does Russia openly have? Could they be confident enough that they could shoot down all nukes hearing towards Moscow?

Why take the gamble?

 

[Gondola Enjoyer]

NYC is definitely on the list
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This bitch for sure
33 Thomas Street

Very cool building, shame it's full of real glowniggers instead of supernatural-focused glowniggers.

 

[Kuritan Deplorable]

Though from everything i've read it didn't seem tungsten was chosen. (Don't think the third prototype was DU either)

Tungsten's a pretty poor choice for armor. Its heavy, brittle, and incredibly fucking annoying to try and machine or tool. You can alleviate the brittleness with some alloying, but you quickly lose the mechanical advantages tungsten has.

It was a decent experimental material, but like Titanium, it tends to be overrated by people who don't really get metal.

 

[Lorne Armstrong]

How much of a missile defense system does Russia openly have? Could they be confident enough that they could shoot down all nukes hearing towards Moscow?

No, they could not, anymore than the US could be confident in their ability to shoot down any and all incoming nukes, and anyone convinced that anyone could is delusional.

 

[Garm]

Tungsten's a pretty poor choice for armor. Its heavy, brittle, and incredibly fucking annoying to try and machine or tool. You can alleviate the brittleness with some alloying, but you quickly lose the mechanical advantages tungsten has.

It was a decent experimental material, but like Titanium, it tends to be overrated by people who don't really get metal.

I think that he was talking about ammo. But I'm assuming that DU means "Depleted Uranium."

 

[Fapcop]

I mean they have to do something after they've just shown the world who's actually doing the Banzai charges.

At least 20 special forces soldiers were killed in that failed Crimea operation. And those were supposed to be the creme de la creme of the Ukies.

Speaking of failed PR stunts, the Russians have cleared the “Cossack landing” and anre actively clearing the rest of the Krynki “beach head” with only some remaining cabbage niggers hiding around the ruins of Krynki.

Over 2000 Ukrainians have been killed here, in a vain attempt to say that they still have a sliver of land east of the Dniepr river.

Over… Two… Thousand… Men…

The entire operation was for PR (and possibly with an extra benefit of tieing up some Russian forces), and calling it a “beach head” is a bit of a stretch, since a beach head involves the opportunity of rapidly inserting troops and enlarging territory.

In Krynki it was always out of the question, and the only way to supply them and rotate troops was with speed boats.

 

[Rubick]

Tungsten's a pretty poor choice for armor. Its heavy, brittle, and incredibly fucking annoying to try and machine or tool. You can alleviate the brittleness with some alloying, but you quickly lose the mechanical advantages tungsten has.

It was a decent experimental material, but like Titanium, it tends to be overrated by people who don't really get metal.

That may be to some degree or other. But It has been used in armor though. Also in tanks (export Abrams)

 

[Betonhaus]

No, they could not, anymore than the US could be confident in their ability to shoot down any and all incoming nukes, and anyone convinced that anyone could is delusional.

Russia probably has the advantage that a higher percentage of their nukes actually work and will hit the target, but admittedly that's still a huge gamble

 

[More AWS-8Q Than You]

My guy… You know what’s on top of the target list, with big cities being a close second?

That’s right… Military installations, bases, camps, missile silos, etc. And of course military production facilities.

Where are those for the most part located?

That’s right… Red and flyover states.

While I can only sympathize and agree with your desire to see Chicago turn into a glass parking lot, along with all the shitlib coastal metropolises, a nuclear exchange wont end as well as you might hope.

I live an hourish south of the largest Air Force base in the world and about half hourish north of the eastern most major crossing of the Ohio River. If nuclear war kicks off and I don't get the chance, it's been an honor shitposting with you all.

As for American nukes, well, this display from the National Air Force Museum should say it all

 

[Feline Supremacist]

I live an hourish south of the largest Air Force base in the world and about half hourish north of the eastern most major crossing of the Ohio River. If nuclear war kicks off and I don't get the chance, it's been an honor shitposting with you all.

As for American nukes, well, this display from the National Air Force Museum should say it all
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Oh Lord I can hear that nigress now: "You da what? Da president? Prove it nigger! Kiss my black ass!"

Actually would be a great line in a parody of Dr Strangelove

 

[Fapcop]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news Russiabros, but terrible news from the front.

Ukrainian air defenses have shot down almost 100 top modern SU34 in just a single day.



According to their own claims anyways

I live an hourish south of the largest Air Force base in the world and about half hourish north of the eastern most major crossing of the Ohio River. If nuclear war kicks off and I don't get the chance, it's been an honor shitposting with you all.

As for American nukes, well, this display from the National Air Force Museum should say it all
View attachment 5770111View attachment 5770113

Some years ago there was a major scandal in the US Air Force.

The missile crews who have to you know… Maintain and LAUNCH nukes were all fought cheating on tests.

(They have to take a test periodically, to ensure their skills are up to par, and brass just handed them the answers.)

That story makes a lot more sense now.

How much of a missile defense system does Russia openly have?

Back in the 60ies (I think!) the US and USSR agreed on limited missile defense.

In order that MAD would actually work, and to prevent another arms race, the two nations agreed that they could set up missile defense systems around ONE target.

The Russians chose Moscow (Don’t remember what the US chose) and installed giant ICBM radars and anti ICBM rockets.

The system is still in place and has been modernized several times.

Could they be confident enough that they could shoot down all nukes hearing towards Moscow?

Who knows. Depends on how many nukes are coming, obviously.

The Russians have certainly done some testing and have some rough awareness of its efficiency, but obviously it’s not something they share.

Most of them can definitely start new factories, the issue is keeping it and making it profitable which is a tall order given the cost of operating in western europe.

It’s not THAT easy though.

Europe and the US have over time deindustrialized.

That kind of institutional knowledge is hard to regain. There’s also only a limited number of engineers and of course skilled labor.

Throw enough money at it, and something will eventually be built, but… There’s a reason why we barely MAKE anything anymore, and there’s a reason why all these defense projects balloon to ridiculous sizes.

(Laughs in one trillion dollar F35.)

That and the fact that the money spent building factories could potentially go to our NHS instead, and there is nothing that cannot be sacrificed on the alter of our NHS.

That’s another part of the problem. The economies are creaking, immigrants cost a lot of money, and the cost of Euro welfare states is rising.

Voters might nod at politicians who grandstand about Ukraine, but it’s an entirely different matter when taxes rise or services are cut.

 

[Betonhaus]

In order that MAD would actually work, and to prevent another arms race, the two nations agreed that they could set up missile defense systems around ONE target

Are there restrictions around how big the coverage can be around the target? Could Moscow be the center of a missile defense system that covers a significant percentage of Russia's landmass, with any nearby cities and towns getting protection as an afterthought?

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

Ukrainian air defenses have shot down almost 100 top modern SU34 in just a single day.

We'll be hearing about Ukraine shooting down Putin's nuke satellites soon.

 

[Duke Nukem]

Counter striking would be safe and justifiable. It might even make Russia more confident striking arms shipments just across the border. Russia was wise to play nice earlier, but now NATO is too tired to escalate.

Blocking Telegram before Tiktok is lunacy.

But Telegram doesn't have sexy dance videos, so of course it would be banned.

Very cool building, shame it's full of real glowniggers instead of supernatural-focused glowniggers.

The Glowing Ones are some of the most annoying mutants to deal with in Fallout, I think you'd only make them stronger with the radiation.

I honestly don't think it's going to come to nuclear war over an ex-Soviet shithole that's used for under the table dealings by Western elites.

 

[Candlelight Desolation]

Besides, there will be a false flag in the next few months that will throw a huge monkey wrench into things anyway so best be on solid ground when it happens.

I certainly hope you're wrong; throw clocks at me all you people in this thread want, but did I miss something? Was there some NATO/Pentagon memo leaked which talks about blaming some massive attack on Russia? I personally would think not given how almost everyone in European NATO near IMMEDIATELY walked back Macron threatening to send troops into Ukraine. I think these people are dumb, but not outright suicidal.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

how almost everyone in European NATO near IMMEDIATELY walked back Macron threatening to send troops into Ukraine

Momentarily bedazzled by African BBC, Macron spoke too early.

They all plan on sending their people into the meatgrinder; did you forget Sweden sperging about getting their population ready for war?

 

[Kuritan Deplorable]

That may be to some degree or other. But It has been used in armor though. Also in tanks (export Abrams)

Correct, because Export Abrams expect a very dense material to be placed in sections along the main steel body, specifically Depleted Uranium. Tungsten is the inferior backup option when Depleted Uranium can't be used. Main concerns there being its nasty self sharpening properties (Great for penetrator projectiles, and makes it capable of lighting itself on fire, but that knife cuts both ways - DU armor can ignite when penetrated as well) and the associated dust it generates - DU is depleted, not neutralized, and while its an incredibly weak radiation source and perfectly safe outside the body, inhaling particulates of it is probably a bad idea. A lotta euros refuse to use it, and export controls make it hard to give it to anyone else.

Tungsten is the mediocre runner up, that's close enough in performance that you can use it instead and not completely invalidate the way the armor was designed to work. The Leopard uses Tungsten as part of its armor filler, and not as strike face material. Some other armor layouts use tungsten as a backing reinforcement in small quantities. Nobody uses it the way Depleted Uranium is used, except as that fallback, because it sucks at that job.

 

[The Ugly One]

All Russian tanks from the T-54B onwards could fire reasonably well on the move as they all had dual plane stabilized main guns. Most NATO tanks had unstablized main guns until the mid 1970s....

The T-54B was inept firing on the move, as we saw in Iraq. Pre-electronic gyroscope stabilizers were garbage. The US field-tested them on Shermans during WWII and concluded they weren't worth the expense. You had to stop to fire at long range anyway, so you had an expensive, complicated, fragile piece of equipment that had limited utility to begin with. However, adding a ballistics computer and a laser range finder to a stabilizer and automated turret control was a generational leap in tank technology.

This video of the T-90 in actions shows a bunch of maneuvers that a pre-digital tank was utterly incapable of.

The T-72B3 and newer and the T-80BVM have similar FCS to the Abrams.

Those are 2010s refurbs, so deep into the digital era. But yes, Russia has ballistics computers and lasers now.

 

[Gondolindrim]

I certainly hope you're wrong; throw clocks at me all you people in this thread want, but did I miss something? Was there some NATO/Pentagon memo leaked which talks about blaming some massive attack on Russia? I personally would think not given how almost everyone in European NATO near IMMEDIATELY walked back Macron threatening to send troops into Ukraine. I think these people are dumb, but not outright suicidal.

They'll saber rattle about fighting Russia but no one with actual power is going to risk nuclear annihilation

 

[Shallow Wave]

"people" saying that nuclear war is a perfectly normal, survivable and winnable affair?

No actually, and theyve been doing that ever since the war started actually